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Ysterpyp

Truly worried about CV rework

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[UNICS]
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Hi 

 

Im truly worried about the cv rework if it becomes a FPS environment ,wouldn't that effect people that have 105ms ping? 

 

Fast moving objects and highish latency will be a real problem for me then, and i bet alot of other people to!

 

This is why i play this game in the first place , its not depended on have 35ms ping, although it help abit 

 

 

 

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Yeah well- im not sure if you've ever noticed, but we already have this checkbox "animate small objects" in the advanced user interface. 
This checkbox basically covers all of the FPS change induced by CVs, while ppl who don't play CV hardly need to check it, since it doesnt offer that much benefits for them. 

So problem solved?

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I really like the way cvs are now except for those two bugs which happens since 6 to 7 versions ago. Also the idea of controlling only one squad at the time it's quite apalling. For worse, there aren't any news or anything like that.
I just wonder, where are the insiders when one needs them??

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2 minutes ago, Sargento_YO said:

I really like the way cvs are now except for those two bugs which happens since 6 to 7 versions ago. Also the idea of controlling only one squad at the time it's quite apalling. For worse, there aren't any news or anything like that.
I just wonder, where are the insiders when one needs them??

So basically you are saying the CV rework is problematic because they might change "anything at all but you have no idea what"?

With controlling one squad at a time do you mean that that is planned or currently the case? 
Which two bugs are you talking about? 

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1 minute ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

So basically you are saying the CV rework is problematic because they might change "anything at all but you have no idea what"?

With controlling one squad at a time do you mean that that is planned or currently the case? 
Which two bugs are you talking about? 

from that video where the developers mentioned they will change the entire cv UI, starting by being able to only control a single squad at the time. In general the whole thing it's a huge nerf for aircraft carriers (specially taking in consideration what WG understands by "changing stuff and make them more fun to play". Thats why they did to arty in WOT, in the end was a huge and massive nerf to arties).
The two bugs I mentioned are the ones where the planes goes silent without reason and when I select a target for the carrier´s weapons, a waypoint it's placed in that same spot. I even uninstalled the whole game and these still happens.

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[KURLA]
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The only thing they had to do was to fix bugged UI and make AA rebalance for every ingame class. 


If they wanted to close skill gap between unicum and potato they could simply remove fighters from game and leave it to dealing dmg and spotting. Right now "decent player" can rape potato fighters, spot whole enemy team and deal tons of dmg. Without fighters better player would deal dmg to crucial targets and spot low hp ships to push team for a win. Potato would potato, but at least going up to T X it might be able to understand that some ships can shoot down planes. 


What will we get?
Most likely arcade/mobile game mix for potatoes. You can controll only one squad. Your task is to move squad from on point (CV) to another (target). Simply use WSAD to move around and dodge death zones - ships AA. When you do that sparkilng text shows up (good, excellent, perfect - you know like mobile games for kids). You can of course lose some planes. When you are at target you'll see short animation when planes drops bombs/torpedoes. When they are falling down the slot machine appears. Reels number depends on plane number which you managed to move to target. Now magic happens when dmg dealt to target is determined. And next squadron takes off. You might be even able to choose if you want to use fighters/dive bombers/torpedo bombers. And fighter gameplay is the same you just have to fly to enemy CV, animation shows firing guns and roll of dice determines how much initial dmg will be dealt to next enemy squad which will take off.

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[SCRUB]
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8 minutes ago, Xunarra said:

You can controll only one squad

 

Did they mention anything about the size of the squad ?

 

It might as well contain 10 TBs and 20 DBs for all we know .. :cap_like:

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[ALONE]
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19 minutes ago, Xunarra said:

The only thing they had to do was to fix bugged UI and make AA rebalance for every ingame class. 


If they wanted to close skill gap between unicum and potato they could simply remove fighters from game and leave it to dealing dmg and spotting. Right now "decent player" can rape potato fighters, spot whole enemy team and deal tons of dmg. Without fighters better player would deal dmg to crucial targets and spot low hp ships to push team for a win. Potato would potato, but at least going up to T X it might be able to understand that some ships can shoot down planes. 


What will we get?
Most likely arcade/mobile game mix for potatoes. You can controll only one squad. Your task is to move squad from on point (CV) to another (target). Simply use WSAD to move around and dodge death zones - ships AA. When you do that sparkilng text shows up (good, excellent, perfect - you know like mobile games for kids). You can of course lose some planes. When you are at target you'll see short animation when planes drops bombs/torpedoes. When they are falling down the slot machine appears. Reels number depends on plane number which you managed to move to target. Now magic happens when dmg dealt to target is determined. And next squadron takes off. You might be even able to choose if you want to use fighters/dive bombers/torpedo bombers. And fighter gameplay is the same you just have to fly to enemy CV, animation shows firing guns and roll of dice determines how much initial dmg will be dealt to next enemy squad which will take off.

I really hope WG is ready to refund all premium CV which the people bought... :fish_palm:

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[CAIN]
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1 hour ago, Sargento_YO said:

from that video where the developers mentioned they will change the entire cv UI, starting by being able to only control a single squad at the time. In general the whole thing it's a huge nerf for aircraft carriers (specially taking in consideration what WG understands by "changing stuff and make them more fun to play". Thats why they did to arty in WOT, in the end was a huge and massive nerf to arties).
The two bugs I mentioned are the ones where the planes goes silent without reason and when I select a target for the carrier´s weapons, a waypoint it's placed in that same spot. I even uninstalled the whole game and these still happens.

Arty nerfed? 

It changed the way plays and reduced the damage output ( on lower tier artsy) but introduced a even worse stun mechanic ( for non artsy). 

 

I have no doubt, that CVs after the rework will be as annoying as they are now, just like arty is as annoying if not more than it was before.

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[NWP]
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32 minutes ago, Jethro_Grey said:

Arty nerfed? 

It changed the way plays and reduced the damage output ( on lower tier artsy) but introduced a even worse stun mechanic ( for non artsy). 

 

I have no doubt, that CVs after the rework will be as annoying as they are now, just like arty is as annoying if not more than it was before.

You may feel like your tank performs like a drunk from the stun effect, at least you are rarely 1 shoted though.

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4 hours ago, Jethro_Grey said:

Arty nerfed? 

It changed the way plays and reduced the damage output ( on lower tier artsy) but introduced a even worse stun mechanic ( for non artsy). 

 

I have no doubt, that CVs after the rework will be as annoying as they are now, just like arty is as annoying if not more than it was before.

Dude, I have been playing World of Tanks since 2013 or so. And believe me, Arties are crap after that massive nerf. Before it was entirely possible hit enemy tanks for 2000. It was even better in 2015 when you could hit targets at 1 km with the acurracy of a Bishop.

Nevertheless... It's guaranteed the fact that WG will nerf aircraft carriers. The only thing I hope now it's that they will leave Saipan, Kaga (and the others premium CVs) unchanged, like it's on WOT with Sexton II and LEfh18b2. That was one of the reasons I brought both of them (and I couldn't buy Enterprise and Graf zeppelin because I didn't had the money to, otherwise I would have brought them as well)

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I would definitely miss the RTS carriers as I very much like playing them in operations, but CV is too OP right now. It's as if the carriers are in a league of their own and we are fighting a mere secondary battle on the surface.

 

I'll enjoy it while it lasts :Smile_great:

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3 hours ago, TBNRtom said:

Ping already affects you as a CV player in the current iteration...

 

exactly my thoughts 

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[PMI]
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6 hours ago, Xunarra said:

The only thing they had to do was to fix bugged UI and make AA rebalance for every ingame class. 


If they wanted to close skill gap between unicum and potato they could simply remove fighters from game and leave it to dealing dmg and spotting. Right now "decent player" can rape potato fighters, spot whole enemy team and deal tons of dmg. Without fighters better player would deal dmg to crucial targets and spot low hp ships to push team for a win. Potato would potato, but at least going up to T X it might be able to understand that some ships can shoot down planes. 


What will we get?
Most likely arcade/mobile game mix for potatoes. You can controll only one squad. Your task is to move squad from on point (CV) to another (target). Simply use WSAD to move around and dodge death zones - ships AA. When you do that sparkilng text shows up (good, excellent, perfect - you know like mobile games for kids). You can of course lose some planes. When you are at target you'll see short animation when planes drops bombs/torpedoes. When they are falling down the slot machine appears. Reels number depends on plane number which you managed to move to target. Now magic happens when dmg dealt to target is determined. And next squadron takes off. You might be even able to choose if you want to use fighters/dive bombers/torpedo bombers. And fighter gameplay is the same you just have to fly to enemy CV, animation shows firing guns and roll of dice determines how much initial dmg will be dealt to next enemy squad which will take off.

 

Erm, this sounds eerily possible...

Are you a WG employee by any chance?

 

5 hours ago, EdiJo said:

I really hope WG is ready to refund all premium CV which the people bought... :fish_palm:

 

I have been telling it for a bit now, they seem hell bent on sinking this ship for good. And it has been almost a year since the graf zep snafu, they are itching for the yearly one, its the only thing they keep truly scheduled and on time.

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[HAIFU]
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In general when you design a PvP game you want the skillgap between beginner level of play and master level to be as big as possible. This i why Chess is popular, if you could become a chess grand master after playing for a few days then nobody would care about that game.

At the same time you want all classes in a game to be balanced. This can be done by making the skill gap for all classes as big as the one with the smallest skill gap (in this case it's the Battleship class). I mean if the skill gap of BB players is relatively small and the skill gap between DDs is relatively big then obviously DDs will have a bigger impact on the game - which is bad, we want all classes to have the same impact.

Right now, however, CVs have a much bigger skill gap than any other class and as a result a much higher impact on the game. WG has tried to balance this with AA, which is fine, but the AA ingame is not player controlled, which is a problem. It is a problem because players feel frustrated when they get unlucky and it happens on both ends too - BB player "I'm an AA specced Montana and i still didn't shoot down a single plane when i was being bombed!?!?!"   CV player "I lost all my planes even though this player is AFK and now they won on points..."

 

I have seen 3 main complaints regarding CVs where there are real problems:

1: The user interface - It's laggy, it doesn't register all my clicks, and so on....

2: Too strong AA on higher tiers - Again it's not fun to fight an RNG based system, especially if you are a t8 CV against a t10 anything.

3: The impact CVs have on games compared to other classes is too big - People also complained that the skill gap of CV players is too big but as i already explained the game developers should just try to balance the skill gap after the smallest skill gap (currently the BB) this way all classes will have the same impact on games. 

 

Notice how nobody complains about the RTS style of play and yet this is what WG is now going to remove from the game. But maybe they have tried to solve the real problems without success and have finally given up?

 

What have WG done in the past to combat these problems?

1: Nothing... maybe they did some changes waaaay back but that must have been before i even started playing the game, which was years ago. This is very odd considering that he UI is the #1 complaint...

2: WG is constantly changing this... you might think the AA is unbalanced but at least there is AA balancing going on.

3: The only thing i can think of is the AA... which is really sad when you consider that the AA is one of the problems with the balance of CVs... They should try to lower the skill gap to match that of the BBs and this will fix itself (I know i've said this before but i still think it's true... and yes i do realize it's easier said than done but considering how the balancing have been done so far you have to wonder if WG even knows what they want to do?)

 

This post have been pretty pessimistic so far but i'm going to end it in a more positive light.

Remember all those hybrid type ships such as  the Japanese Battleship Ise or even the Swedish Cruiser Gotland? These type of ships has been requested by players for... well since the game was created i guess, but WGs response was always that they couldn't do it because of the way CVs work. Well now they have decided to completely change how CVs work so this should be a great opportunity for them to put even more ships into the game!

 

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[EST]
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6 hours ago, EdiJo said:

I really hope WG is ready to refund all premium CV which the people bought... :fish_palm:

Ofc they will "refund", but in doubloons that seem to lose value every day.

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[PARAZ]
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I'm fine with the whole manual control stuff. More afraid of them :etc_swear:ing up the balancing which they're very likely to do.

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@Xunarra The problem with CV gameplay is that it's completely different from other ships'. And it's not because it resembles an RTS.

 

A CV sends out torpedo and bomb dispensers, and they are more maneuverable than any ship, meaning that they can attack from any angle, regardless of the target thip's maneuvers.

These dispensers also have the power to scout both ships and torpedoes while moving around.

Torpedo spreads are also very low in randomness, meaning that the spreads are very predictable, making damage output less influenced by RNG.

 

The targets' only defense against this is AA, a mechanic COMPLETELY governed by RNG.

And the AA doesn't even shoot back at the CV - it only shoots at the torpedo and bomb dispensers.And you can't hunt planes with AA. The enemy CV has to make a choice and send his planes to you. If he doesn't, you don't get to shoot any down.

(And a team doesn't gain any points for shooting down planes, but for some reason ships sunk by planes give points.)

 

It's like having a game spanning two parallel universes.

 

Players in the first universe can aim and shoot into the second universe.

Players from the second universe can't shoot into the first universe. They can only hope that stuff shooting them randomly dies.

 

Your suggestion:

9 hours ago, Xunarra said:

The only thing they had to do was to fix bugged UI and make AA rebalance for every ingame class. 

Does not attack this fundamental asymmetry.

 

You either have to add an (equally) skill-based mechanism to counter CV's attacks. Or you have to make plane attacks more RNG-dependent than even battleship salvoes. Or add some other mechanic that makes it deterministically possible for a ship to avoid CV planes. Or add some mechanism that makes it possible to shoot back at the CVs.

 

Right now the game is chess with two queens and 22 pawns. I would prefer it to be a game where all 24 pieces mattered equally.

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[PARAZ]
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1 hour ago, Phlogistoned said:

You either have to add an (equally) skill-based mechanism to counter CV's attacks.

 

There is one. It's called "sticking with your teammates" or alternatively "press the T button". That's actually a lower bar than what it takes to attack someone in a CV.

AA is rising chance over time with a cap at 90% per tick. You're probably more likely to win the jackpot in a lottery than striking a small group of ships in an effective manner (unless ofc all their AA is :etc_swear: but even then you're often have to deal with hefty losses. Just struck a Fuso sailing close to a Bayern in my Enterprise a few games ago and lost over half my DBs to both).

 

As for not being able to hunt down planes, imagine that your AA can be completely out of position so that it literally can't defend you when a strike comes in. What you're asking for is essentially represented in the game by fighters.

AA defense can't actively hunt planes, true. But on the other hand a CV has to cross your AA every time to attack you. You can't have both.

And for the last time, effective HP of a CV are planes. Without planes a CV is incapable of fulfilling any role effectively, a CV without planes may as well be considered sunk. Sure, you don't gain any points, but you don't lose any either unless your CV or your team is completely :etc_swear: (which to be fair is a common occurance). If you lose a game because the enemy CV survived you never deserved to win in the first place as you have to :etc_swear: up massively for that to even occur.

 

1 hour ago, Phlogistoned said:

I would prefer it to be a game where all 24 pieces mattered equally.

 

Which isn't even the case in chess. Or in literally any other successful multiplayer game out there nowadays. Games with symmetrical balancing are dead and have been for almost two decades, for the most part because they're boring by today's standards. WoWs is inherently asymmetrical as it should be. Deal with it.

Or do you mean to insinuate that we should give BBs DD concealment, cruisers BB armor, DDs BB guns and other moronic things to gain the equality you so desire?

 

Fact remains that no, nothing of the sort that you're describing is needed because it is either already in the game or complete bollocks. Competitive WoWs displays that CVs not only work, but that they're actually too weak to do anything besides spotting. Their inherent design means you have to misplay horribly to get killed by a CV.

This is a team game. If you don't want it to be then don't play it. The rework is coming because WG wants to release this game for consoles. It's not because CVs in their current state can't be balanced.

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[TKBS]
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8 hours ago, Phlogistoned said:

@Xunarra The problem with CV gameplay is that it's completely different from other ships'. And it's not because it resembles an RTS.

 

A CV sends out torpedo and bomb dispensers, and they are more maneuverable than any ship, meaning that they can attack from any angle, regardless of the target thip's maneuvers.

These dispensers also have the power to scout both ships and torpedoes while moving around.

Torpedo spreads are also very low in randomness, meaning that the spreads are very predictable, making damage output less influenced by RNG.

 

The targets' only defense against this is AA, a mechanic COMPLETELY governed by RNG.

And the AA doesn't even shoot back at the CV - it only shoots at the torpedo and bomb dispensers.And you can't hunt planes with AA. The enemy CV has to make a choice and send his planes to you. If he doesn't, you don't get to shoot any down.

(And a team doesn't gain any points for shooting down planes, but for some reason ships sunk by planes give points.)

 

It's like having a game spanning two parallel universes.

 

Players in the first universe can aim and shoot into the second universe.

Players from the second universe can't shoot into the first universe. They can only hope that stuff shooting them randomly dies.

 

Your suggestion:

Does not attack this fundamental asymmetry.

 

You either have to add an (equally) skill-based mechanism to counter CV's attacks. Or you have to make plane attacks more RNG-dependent than even battleship salvoes. Or add some other mechanic that makes it deterministically possible for a ship to avoid CV planes. Or add some mechanism that makes it possible to shoot back at the CVs.

 

Right now the game is chess with two queens and 22 pawns. I would prefer it to be a game where all 24 pieces mattered equally.

no,no,no.

Let's get some points straight:

-cv are designed, on the higher tiers (9-10), to be the damage dealers of the team, wg committed to this strategy when they released this ship in alpha, and rightfully so, then all those bbs crybaby without brain arrived, and they had to add all those aa monsters (even bbs)

-wasd hack

-YOU ARE NOT SUPPOSED TO AVOID ALL THE TORPS OF A MANUAL DROP, you are talking about a class of ship that in a  20 minutes game can do a full strike on average 4-5 times ( 1 strike every 4-5 minutes). In the game where the enemy are retarded, you are very close to them (so good positioning and high risk/high reward situation) you can do 7-8 strikes.  IF you can alwais avoid  damage, even in the class that you should hard-counter (bbs),  cv would be useless

-planes are actually too slow, if a bbs of the same tier of the carrier start to maneuver ( thanks to the retarded rudder times that they have now, remember that back in alpha/cbt they had it doubled) when your planes are already committed to attacking one side, usually you lose half or more than your squad even before the drop

- having a mechanic not governed by rng is bad? ffss

-stick with your team

 

-all the cruisers have an "i win" button that makes all the effort of a carrier useless. And you can activate it just before the planes are dropping on you, and cv's planes are fucked

 

on attacking others dds

- if a dd get nuked, he has done something very wrong, even slowing down when planes are committed to the drop means that you are not going to hit him. And a lot of high tier  dds can mount an idioticly powerfull def-aa. ABout standing still in smoke, he is even more a noob, and if it doesn't get nuked by my tbs, will get nuked by someone else torps. IF a dd starts turing into your planes when they are close, it can prevent me to dropping effectively for all the game, if he wants ( and by that time some aa help in the forms of fighters or a cruiser should have arrived)

-if a cruiser get nuked, it means he hasn't got def aa, and so he is an idiot, because all high tier cruisers can mount it and should mount it, especially because def aa is like a life assurance and is usefull to shot down that pesky scout plane that the bb on the other side of the island has just fired.

 

 

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[WJDE]
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>rework carriers, so they're arcade instead of rts

>scrap world of warplanes

>wowp playerbase literally jumps ship

 

THE. MOST. GENIUS. IDEA. EVER.

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