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MoveZig

Radar in a cyclone

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If I use radar when visibility is down to 8km and spot a target with it, will the target be spotted for allies too, or still greyed out for them?

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2 minutes ago, Allied_Winter said:

Would be only visible to you. Allies see it on the minimap though.

Not completely correct. 

Assuming 8km+ radar range: 
A cyclone reduces the visibility range to 8km (although radar actually ups it a bit). 
using radar, you can spot any ship within that 8km, leading you to see them. 
Any ally that has that target within 8km aswell will also see the target, since it is within view range of the ally AND the target is spotted. 

generally however, this second criterium is often not met, leading to your allies not seeing the target ship. 

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52 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Not completely correct. 

Assuming 8km+ radar range: 
A cyclone reduces the visibility range to 8km (although radar actually ups it a bit).

 

So wait, USSR radar gets its range reduced in a cyclone? How much range does it have?

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1 minute ago, MoveZig said:

 

So wait, USSR radar gets its range reduced in a cyclone? How much range does it have?

 

No it doesn't.

 

USN or British radar reaches from 8.5km (T7) to 9.9km (T10 + Indianapolis).

 

RU radar reaches to 11.7km independently from tier.

 

These values DON'T change for cyclone.

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The 8km (or which ever the reduced range atm is) applies only to your allies. So if a DD is in 8km from your allies and you are able to spot it with your radar, your allies will see it. The radar range you have, applies only to you no matter what the reduced range atm is.

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7 minutes ago, MoveZig said:

 

So wait, USSR radar gets its range reduced in a cyclone? How much range does it have?

Well no. The radar has a range of 11.7km typically for USSR. That means that you will DETECT any enemy in this rane- whether there is cyclone or not. 
The problem with cyclone however is that your view range is restricted to being only 8km (plus a slight bonus for radar, but its less than 11.7). 

This is actually the same situation as where a destroyer cannot spot a battleship that is out of range: a yamato can be spotted up to 31km when firing with a spotter plane. But if a gearing is 17km away, he wont see the yamato, because the view range is limited to 16.5km. 

Practically this does mean that during a cyclone you WILL get a new position of all ships within radar range, even if you cant SEE them. 

My comment was also to indicate that radar use during cyclone ups the view range itself, which causes a radar-active ship to have a view range of around 8.5km  instead of 8km. 
.... which of course doesnt go for mentioned low range radars, since these donnot exceed 8km

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2 minutes ago, MoveZig said:

 

So wait, USSR radar gets its range reduced in a cyclone? How much range does it have?

 

Nope, radar ranges remain unchanged for all. His comment about "Assuming 8km+ radar range" was to do with the fact that some ships have 7.5km radar. Black and the high tier PA DDs iirc.

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Just now, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Well no. The radar has a range of 11.7km typically for USSR. That means that you will DETECT any enemy in this rane- whether there is cyclone or not. 
The problem with cyclone however is that your view range is restricted to being only 8km (plus a slight bonus for radar, but its less than 11.7). 

This is actually the same situation as where a destroyer cannot spot a battleship that is out of range: a yamato can be spotted up to 31km when firing with a spotter plane. But if a gearing is 17km away, he wont see the yamato, because the view range is limited to 16.5km. 

Practically this does mean that during a cyclone you WILL get a new position of all ships within radar range, even if you cant SEE them. 

 

Okay, that's a good explanation, thanks.

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4 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Well no. The radar has a range of 11.7km typically for USSR. That means that you will DETECT any enemy in this rane- whether there is cyclone or not. 
The problem with cyclone however is that your view range is restricted to being only 8km (plus a slight bonus for radar, but its less than 11.7). 

This is incorrect information. You will see enemy ships visually and in minimap regardless the reduced range, when using radar. Restrictions applies to your allies only.

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4 minutes ago, Paimentaja said:

This is incorrect information. You will see enemy ships visually and in minimap regardless the reduced range, when using radar. Restrictions applies to your allies.

This is correct information, but you are not reading my explanation well. 
RADAR USE ALSO UPS YOUR OWN VIEW RANGE. Im not sure if it does so to the level of radar range, i think not but ive never been able to find out about it. 

Restrictions apply to you aswell, even if you have radar up, except the radar overrides this because it extends your view range. 

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I just realized how horrible cyclones must be for high-tier DDs. Can't spot anything until 8km, but if it has radar then it has you in its killzone. Just one more reason to stick to t5.

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19 hours ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Screw off, i know my crap. 

This is correct information, but you are not reading my explanation well. 
RADAR USE ALSO UPS YOUR OWN VIEW RANGE. but not to the level of radar range per se. 

Restrictions apply to you aswell, even if you have radar up. 

 

Did this change at some point then because I KNOW I have used radar in the past in a cyclone to see ships 11.7km away.

 

19 hours ago, MoveZig said:

I just realized how horrible cyclones must be.

 

Enough said.

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4 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

This is correct information, but you are not reading my explanation well. 
RADAR USE ALSO UPS YOUR OWN VIEW RANGE. Im not sure if it does so to the level of radar range, i think not but ive never been able to find out about it. 

Restrictions apply to you aswell, even if you have radar up. 

I cannot link to the wows wiki page, where this is explaned very thoroughly because I'm on a Computer that will not allow me to, but the mechanics in reality work in a way I just explained. It does not matter are you in a cyclone or not, the radar will anyway spot visually and in minimap in its max range to the user of radar.

 

EDIT : It says in detail that it will also extend your view range aswell and that is also what I'm experiencing when playing high tier radar ships.

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19 hours ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

Did this change at some point then because I KNOW I have used radar in the past in a cyclone to see ships 11.7km away.

Well ive changed it. Im not certain how much it changes it for, you may be right. 

But the thing is that the restriction technically still holds, it just becomes overridden and thats something different from what Paimentaja suggested IMO (because what he says suggest that you automatically SEE any ship you detect during a cyclone- which isnt true). 

 

19 hours ago, Paimentaja said:

I cannot link to the wows wiki page, where this is explaned very thoroughly because I'm on a Computer that will not allow me to, but the mechanics in reality work in a way I just explained. It does not matter are you in a cyclone or not, the radar will anyway spot visually and in minimap in its max range to the user of radar.

Yeah, given, you are right, but i thought you meant something different than you may have meant. 

My point was that the restriction actually still holds, but the radar increases your view range. That is exactly what's going on. 
But i thought there was a difference in range; apperently these ranges (extended cyclone view range & radar range) are equal though. 

 

Sorry about that haha

P.S. I only have low-range radar (max 9.5) so i have no russians to test that out with, hence i wouldnt know. Also the wiki doesnt explain it fully. 

For those interested: 

http://wiki.wargaming.net/en/Ship:Consumables

I'll make sure to have the wiki on it fully precise on its wording. 

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19 hours ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Well ive changed it. Im not certain how much it changes it for, you may be right. 

But the thing is that the restriction technically still holds, it just becomes overridden and thats something different from what Paimentaja suggested IMO (because what he says suggest that you automatically SEE any ship you detect during a cyclone- which isnt true). 

Just read the wows wiki page. I'd be happy to link it, because this is important matter and don't want to sound that I'm just saying things that I think is true, when it is a matter of mechanics.

 

19 hours ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Yeah, given, you are right, but i thought you meant something different than you may have meant. 

My point was that the restriction actually still holds, but the radar increases your view range. That is exactly what's going on. 
But i thought there was a difference in range; apperently these ranges (extended cyclone view range & radar range) are equal though. 

 

Sorry about that haha

Yes. I thought it too and am very sorry for not been able to put it right in here.

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7 minutes ago, Paimentaja said:

Just read the wows wiki page. I'd be happy to link it, because this is important matter and don't want to sound that I'm just saying things that I think is true, when it is a matter of mechanics.

God i know those pages, i wrote half of them hahaha

 

I'll just make sure its 100% clear on this issue such that no one else has to be confused about it :D

Wiki changes are awaiting approval. 

Edited by Isoruku_Yamamoto
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1 hour ago, MoveZig said:

If I use radar when visibility is down to 8km and spot a target with it, will the target be spotted for allies too, or still greyed out for them?

So, as a closure :

 

Radars will spot enemies in their max range, no matter what the view restriction is atm. The view restriction applies to your allies only.

 

Example : You play Moskva, there is a cyclone going on with 8km reduced range. Suddenly, you get spotted. You pop the radar. You will see the enemy (ofc, he (DD) must be in 8km from you) but the enemy starts to kite or is going the opposite direction where you were. Your distance gets bigger than 8km; You are still able to see the enemy untill your distance to the enemy is greater than your radar range, 11,7km or the radar runs out of time. All your allies will see her in the minimap, but visually in screen only if they are in 8km of that enemy (or whatever the reduced view range atm is).

 

Hopefully that clears it up. :) Happy hunting!

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It's really quite easy to understand if you know what spotting range and assured acquisition range are.

 

Spotting range is basically the render distance if you're familiar with WoT. It's the distance ships will render on your screen (regardless of who's spotting them), and the distance you can spot other ships. Normally this is slightly longer than your main gun range, and shown on the minimap with the transparent white cone (which also shows camera direction and focus). Cyclone (gradually) lowers this to 8 km for all ships.

 

Assured acquisition range is normally 2 km, or 3 km with the upgrade no one uses because concealment is better. Radar and hydro increases this to whatever the consumable stats say (3.48 km to 11.7 km). All enemies within assured acquisition range are spotted for the entire team (shown on map and rendered for all ships within spotting range), and always rendered to you, even if your current spotting range is lower than the assured acquisition range (a.k.a. radar range for as long as the radar is active).

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>WG say LOS-based sonar/radar is too complex

>have render distance mechanic with 3 different names (previously 'acquisition', currently 'spotting', players often call 'render' instead) which takes forum discussion to explain

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18 hours ago, AnotherDuck said:

It's really quite easy to understand if you know what spotting range and assured acquisition range are.

 

Spotting range is basically the render distance if you're familiar with WoT. It's the distance ships will render on your screen (regardless of who's spotting them), and the distance you can spot other ships. Normally this is slightly longer than your main gun range, and shown on the minimap with the transparent white cone (which also shows camera direction and focus). Cyclone (gradually) lowers this to 8 km for all ships.

 

Assured acquisition range is normally 2 km, or 3 km with the upgrade no one uses because concealment is better. Radar and hydro increases this to whatever the consumable stats say (3.48 km to 11.7 km). All enemies within assured acquisition range are spotted for the entire team (shown on map and rendered for all ships within spotting range), and always rendered to you, even if your current spotting range is lower than the assured acquisition range (a.k.a. radar range for as long as the radar is active).

I will see if i can redirect the radar section to the spotting mechanics section to take out the very last bit of confusion on this. 
Perhaps ill even make an advanced section in the spotting mechanics to clarify what happens when radar & cyclones are involved

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The new Radar Meta make the Cyclone game mecanic complete absurd.

 

the radarships like Worchester are killing every cruiser in a few secounds because of the short range, and the "normal" cruisers can only be xp piniatas...

 

what is the joke in this?

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