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Pametrada

Graf Spee owners - hints and tips, please.

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Ladies and Gentlemen,

 

I am now the proud (cough) owner of the Graf Spee and I'm not doing terribly well with it. Okay, I don't do terribly well with any ship, but the Graf Spee is particularly problematic, and I'm starting to understand why Langsdorff scuttled it. I've watched Flamu's video on the ship, and he doesn't seem particularly impressed, but I've read other opinions which are more favourable.

 

So, if you're a Graf Spee driver and have some do / don't tips, I would be very grateful indeed.

 

Regards :Smile_Default:

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Pametrada said:

Ladies and Gentlemen,

 

I am now the proud (cough) owner of the Graf Spee 

 

So, if you're a Graf Spee driver and have some do / don't tips, I would be very grateful indeed.

 

Regards :Smile_Default:

 

 

Buy the sharnost:Smile_trollface::Smile_trollface:

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AP, use it. Also, forget right now this bs about her being a "pocket battleship" she is, apart from those unreliable 280mm guns, very much a cruiser, and a not particularly well armored one at that.

 

Wouldn't call myself a Graf Spee expert, but I have found remembering those two things helps, a  lot.

 

Also, don't forget the other two tools you have in your shed, your very good (for a cruiser) secondaries, and those torps.

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9 minutes ago, lafeel said:

AP, use it. Also, forget right now this bs about her being a "pocket battleship" she is, apart from those unreliable 280mm guns, very much a cruiser, and a not particularly well armored one at that.

 

Wouldn't call myself a Graf Spee expert, but I have found remembering those two things helps, a  lot.

 

Also, don't forget the other two tools you have in your shed, your very good (for a cruiser) secondaries, and those torps.

 

Thanks, lafeel - looks like good advice.

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Just now, Pametrada said:

 

Thanks, lafeel - looks like good advice.

You're welcome. :cap_like: Having two of them, and 21 games between them does help get a handle on her a bit.

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Got another advise: use your torpedos wisely, keep the correct distance- approx 12km.

 

And keep this shipt in port as much as possible because it aint that great at all

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I don't understand the people who say they love her to be honest. I played her twice for a mission a while back that required something to be done in the Graf Spee, did not like her at all. Perhaps I didn't give her enough time or her playstyle just wasn't for me, but she just seemed weak. A ship that has the drawbacks of both BBs and cruisers but seemingly with none of the benefits of either!

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3 minutes ago, rvfharrier said:

I don't understand the people who say they love her to be honest. I played her twice for a mission a while back that required something to be done in the Graf Spee, did not like her at all. Perhaps I didn't give her enough time or her playstyle just wasn't for me, but she just seemed weak. A ship that has the drawbacks of both BBs and cruisers but seemingly with none of the benefits of either!

Well, she's not a great ship and I doubt anyone would seriously try to argue the latter. Imho the biggest problem with her is the bloody tier VI MM (no surprise there) and the BB heavy meta (duh).

 

If you get the once in a blue moon MM where you're not bottom tier and there's actually more than three cruiser to shoot at, those 283mm guns really shine. Plus with her overall tough armour for a tier VI cruiser and the heal, she can fight other cruisers all day long. Plus the torps are great for brawling.

 

It's a fun ship, as long as MM doesn't throw a hissy-fit.

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32 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Got another advise: use your torpedos wisely, keep the correct distance- approx 12km.

 

And keep this shipt in port as much as possible because it aint that great at all

That's mean! :Smile_sad:

 

My Admiral Graf Spee (and Thea) say otherwise!

 

To OP: Yes the AGS is an oddball and one of "those" premiums that come with an untypical gameplay for their kind or any ship in their Tier.

Just like with Perth people tend to judge the ship as bad just because they didn't get used to their very own playstyle or simply because it's not "their kind of ship".

The best thing about the AGS are the Aps of those punchy 283mm guns.

They have enough penetration to smash Battleships with regular pens doing a surprising amount of damage for a cruiser of this Tier and not enough penetration to overpen every cruiser they see. Except of the papercruisers AGS lands citadelhits very relaiably (if you manage to get a good dispersion)

The HE is a bit me but for cruisers of the same Tier and even one higher the AGS is nothing to laugh at due to the big guns and her tankyness with the heal and somewhat upgraded armour.

 

The only thing you always have to keep in mind is that you are neither a cruiser nor a battleship.

Fighting a DD alone and expecting to melt it in secounds like normal Tier VI cruisers do is a big nono.  (because of the long reload + dispersion - the Hydro is for selfdefence only don't expect hunting DDs with it)

Tanking BB fire expecting it to live as long as a Bayern or Fuso is a big nono either as it may have good armour for a cruiser but still not enough to not be afraid when a BB turns it's guns to you.

 

I like the ship because the once in a blue moon matches when you get a toptier cruiserheavy game are just awesome. You can literally go in like a Juggernaut and wreck everyone left and right with guns and torps if you are good enough to not overdo it and know when to turn and heal.

 

Edit: Also Thea Kreutzer (the extra HSF captain for that ship) is hillarious and cute shouting "Feuer!" everytime you fire since soime recent patch. :cap_haloween: (yes I am a german guy)

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5 minutes ago, rvfharrier said:

I don't understand the people who say they love her to be honest. I played her twice for a mission a while back that required something to be done in the Graf Spee, did not like her at all. Perhaps I didn't give her enough time or her playstyle just wasn't for me, but she just seemed weak. A ship that has the drawbacks of both BBs and cruisers but seemingly with none of the benefits of either!

dunno, I didnt find her all that terrible... I mean, she does get a heal on a cruiser at T6, with a pretty decent (although not fantastic as lafeel rightly says) german armour scheme. She is really really bad at dealing with DDs, but if your guns are in the mood for it you are very much capable of surprising a BB that's ignoring you and angling towards someone else with a pretty substantial hit. And that goes even more for cruisers - shooting at Omahas and the like feels downright dirty sometimes. Plus, you've got really really good torpedoes.

I think the key to enjoying her may be to just embrace that she's a quirky Frankenstein hybrid between cruiser and BB, with all the downsides that can bring. Don't expect great performances from her, but she can be an interesting change of pace from your more standard ships. Probably not the best premium for a newer player though...

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3 minutes ago, rvfharrier said:

I don't understand the people who say they love her to be honest. I played her twice for a mission a while back that required something to be done in the Graf Spee, did not like her at all. Perhaps I didn't give her enough time or her playstyle just wasn't for me, but she just seemed weak. A ship that has the drawbacks of both BBs and cruisers but seemingly with none of the benefits of either!

I think is a ship that you love it or you hate it. It's true that has the drawbacks but also has their benefits. The think is that is easier to see the drawbacks when compare to each class, but any drawback for a class comparison, is a benefit against the other.

 

 

The main issue is that you cannot play it like a BB neither a Cruiser. And also has only 6 guns in 2 turrets and you need to show your side a lot to shoot both, and it's a bad thing to do because you have cruiser like armour.

 

I have fun with it, but you pay greatly any mistake you make. 

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She performs quite well for such a "bad" ship.

Use her as a cruiser hunter. AP also hurts broadside BB. HE slugging should be the last resort as she lacks the necessary rate of fire.

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tbh, imo she's a beast! play her inbetween the spot that she actually is in, so ca's/bb's. barely any ship is so much fun to play on good runs imo. late game, if some hp left, nothing is safe from her :cap_viking:!

 

2 cts

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19 minutes ago, Isoruku_Yamamoto said:

Got another advise: use your torpedos wisely, keep the correct distance- approx 12km.

 

And keep this shipt in port as much as possible because it aint that great at all

 

Got another advice; use 8km torpedoes from within their range.

 

And play whichever ship you want because the attempt at trolling isn't that great at all.

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3 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Well, she's not a great ship and I doubt anyone would seriously try to argue the latter. Imho the biggest problem with her is the bloody tier VI MM (no surprise there) and the BB heavy meta (duh).

 

If you get the once in a blue moon MM where you're not bottom tier and there's actually more than three cruiser to shoot at, those 283mm guns really shine. Plus with her overall tough armour for a tier VI cruiser and the heal, she can fight other cruisers all day long. Plus the torps are great for brawling.

 

It's a fun ship, as long as MM doesn't throw a hissy-fit.

 

Fighting cruisers was the most frustrating part of it for me. Felt like I had the RNG-reliance of a BB, but without the health and staying power, and with just two turrets I found it quite frustrating to try to land good volleys. As I said above, I fully admit I gave her very little time but she made a very poor impression on me in the time that I did give her. :p

 

7 minutes ago, Tyrendian89 said:

but if your guns are in the mood for it

 

Was my biggest issue with her. Unlike a BB I didn't feel like she had the endurance to give such unreliable guns enough volleys to work. Torps were indeed great though and I think about half of the total damage I did with the ship was dev striking a BB with the torps!

 

9 minutes ago, Vlad_Vado said:

I think is a ship that you love it or you hate it. It's true that has the drawbacks but also has their benefits. The think is that is easier to see the drawbacks when compare to each class, but any drawback for a class comparison, is a benefit against the other.

 

Suppose it comes down to a dislike I have of inaccurate guns. I find them tolerable on BBs because of the sheer weight of firepower and how long you can stay in the fight and keep pumping out volleys, on a cruiser though I found them terribly out of place.

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Lets see, CA without CA fire rate and dispersion, with BB guns which can hurt other BB only in "too close" range ...

 

Make sure that you have friendly ship close and, that friendly ship to be a normal CA.

With that fire rate and dispersion, she is not really useful as DD buffer therefore that kind of support for BB is like no support.

On the other hand, supporting other CA against enemy CA, with hard hitting little bit bigger targets, can be useful.

 

Never try to use torps for attack because, to launch them, you have to expose yourself big time. Only for self defense passing by, to deny area, steer the enemy for someone elses guns ... bottom line, when it is relatively safe to use, or no other choice.

 

Take my advice with pinch of salt as i rarely use GS because of being confused how to use her during the game (some habits die hard).

But, after battle it is much easier to be an admiral...

 

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8 minutes ago, Johmie said:

 

Got another advice; use 8km torpedoes from within their range.

 

And play whichever ship you want because the attempt at trolling isn't that great at all.

haha okay i see how thats confusing. 
 

The optimum engaging distance for a GS in general is  around 12km, whereas you should be using your torps if anyone gets closer than that. 
 

Of course you should play whatever you like, but i found the GS to be rather mediocre. Its not a trolling attempt, its just an advise not to hardforce this ship too much

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Thanks for the input, folks. From what I'm reading here,  I need re-examine how I play this ship.  

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One thing that i did find to be important when playing it is the following:

 

You should really, as said by others, consider this ship to be an in-betweener. Its no standard cruiser, its no battleship. 
That also goes for the guns- aim slightly above the waterline, somewhat higher than where you would with a typical BB, slightly lower than you would with most CAs. 
That gives you chance to land cits, and man those do some harsh damage

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8 minutes ago, Pametrada said:

Thanks for the input, folks. From what I'm reading here,  I need re-examine how I play this ship.  

Compared to your other ships, you arent even doing all that badly in the Spee. Although that is more a result of how you perform in your other cruisers... those could also do with a similar re-examination...

And that is not intended as an attack on you, not at all - you are simply not terribly experienced yet, lots of time and room to improve, if you so desire :Smile_Default: Judging by this thread, you definitely have the right mindset: willing to ask questions and learn, as opposed to blaming external factors. And, as we've also already seen here, when someone with this attitude comes to the forums, we are very much willing and able to help. Who knows, maybe you have questions or want advice for other ships as well? :cap_like:

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11 minutes ago, rvfharrier said:

 

Fighting cruisers was the most frustrating part of it for me. Felt like I had the RNG-reliance of a BB, but without the health and staying power, and with just two turrets I found it quite frustrating to try to land good volleys. As I said above, I fully admit I gave her very little time but she made a very poor impression on me in the time that I did give her. :p

 

 

Was my biggest issue with her. Unlike a BB I didn't feel like she had the endurance to give such unreliable guns enough volleys to work. Torps were indeed great though and I think about half of the total damage I did with the ship was dev striking a BB with the torps!

 

 

Suppose it comes down to a dislike I have of inaccurate guns. I find them tolerable on BBs because of the sheer weight of firepower and how long you can stay in the fight and keep pumping out volleys, on a cruiser though I found them terribly out of place.

I agree that a cruiser with BB "reliable" guns is frustating, specially when you only have 6 guns. The issue with Spee is that if you give her Cruiser accuracy, then it will bully cruisers because of that 283mm guns will deliver penetrations and citadells relliably.

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5 minutes ago, Vlad_Vado said:

I agree that a cruiser with BB "reliable" guns is frustating, specially when you only have 6 guns. The issue with Spee is that if you give her Cruiser accuracy, then it will bully cruisers because of that 283mm guns will deliver penetrations and citadells relliably.

Jeah we already see how that worked out in the test for Stalingrad v2 :Smile_smile:

AGS with cruiser accuracy would be really broken.

At least I would be very confident to destroy any cruiser and most BBs on Tier VI with that.

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My main issue with the Spee is that she can't kite all that well. Simply put, her historical speed of around 28 kts was enough to allow her to outrun the battleships she could have ended up facing in the Atlantic. Problem is, in this game she will in almost every game face BBs that can keep pace with her or even outrun her. So unlike many other cruisers, she's not so suited for running away while dodging and weaving about, simply because she can't run away fast enough.

 

Other than that, she's an enjoyable, if somewhat wonky ship. The guns are very similar to those of the Scharnhorst, but a bit more accurate. Not really enough to be noticeable in most cases. But they are good guns. They can citadel most cruisers she'll face with little risk of overpenetration, and if you aim for the upper belt of a broadside BB they can deal surprisingly large amounts of hurt with AP ammo. 

 

I'd say the thing about her isn't that she requires any particular playstyle, more that she requires you to be able to adapt your playstyle. She's not a "pocket battleship", but when facing up against a light cruiser she can certainly act like a battleship.  Don't be afraid to brawl with other cruisers, the combination of her guns, armour, health pool and seriously bad news torpedoes mean that any cruiser should be worried if a Spee gets in brawling range. When going up against a BB, you're better off going for a more classical cruiser style, keeping the range open and your armour angled. Against a fast battleship... you're basically screwed :P Try to keep cover between you and the enemy and then ambush them with torps.

 

Other than that, a lot of the standard advice for cruisers applies to her as well. Keep cover between you and the majority of the enemy team, put yourself in situations where you can focus on a target without being threatened by (too many of) their teammates. 

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1. Get Concealment Expert, it's a good combo with the high gun alpha. You want to shoot and fade out until it's safe to shoot again.

2. Just avoid BBs at mid-range. Either do the fade in/out thing or CQB them with torps. Don't trade shots with them, you will lose.

3. VS cruisers, mid-short range is preferred. both for AP penetration and accuracy.

4. Try to catch DDs at short range, but not so close that they can easily torp you. IMO the worst threat to a GS is a USSR DD which you can't reliably hit and which keeps you spotted for its BBs while farming hits on you.

5. The AP does a lot of damage, but it's too small to overmatch 25mm, which BBs of its tier will have. VS. angled BBs, switch to HE even though it sucks.

6. Get both Main Arm Mod 1 and PM skill. You can't afford to lose a turret while the torps are among the most fragile and exposed modules I know of.

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1 hour ago, Aotearas said:

 Imho the biggest problem with her is the bloody tier VI MM (no surprise there) and the BB heavy meta (duh).

 

If you get the once in a blue moon MM where you're not bottom tier and there's actually more than three cruiser to shoot at, those 283mm guns really shine. Plus with her overall tough armour for a tier VI cruiser and the heal, she can fight other cruisers all day long. Plus the torps are great for brawling.

 

It's a fun ship, as long as MM doesn't throw a hissy-fit.

^THIS^

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