Moskva (X) - fore + aft armor 50mm (!)

[Yaskaraxx]

5 hours ago, mariouus said:

Not really. It is less than amuzing when person after 16k battles has no understanding of game mechanics.

Actually, Mariouus, I must admit I kind of realy like you: I am quite sure that you are True Grit (=real enthousiastic gamer, not some alias, yr  for real) and I realy value that in a person. And this is my honost opinion. So I gave yr last comment "a like".

 

And as far this thread is concerned: actually it was about getting comments re new available tactics/strategics for the new Moskva as from patch 7.6. Sofar no players commented on that. It was never suposed to become some discussion about opinions (right/wrong) about the 50mm armor buff (since that was already decided by WG).

 

Have a nice weekend! Peter, Holland

[mariouus]

10 hours ago, Yaskaraxx said:

16 hours ago, mariouus said:

Not really. It is less than amuzing when person after 16k battles has no understanding of game mechanics.

Actually, Mariouus, I must admit I kind of realy like you: I am quite sure that you are True Grit (=real enthousiastic gamer, not some alias, yr  for real) and I realy value that in a person. And this is my honost opinion. So I gave yr last comment "a like".

 

And as far this thread is concerned: actually it was about getting comments re new available tactics/strategics for the new Moskva as from patch 7.6. Sofar no players commented on that. It was never suposed to become some discussion about opinions (right/wrong) about the 50mm armor buff (since that was already decided by WG

We have. 50mm of bow will not bring any new tactics.

 

Bow-tanking is just a bad tactics. It is most easy tactics do loose.

 

Rebought Moskva yesterday do test it.

 

Played nine battles bow-tanking and nine battles like I would play Hindenburg.

 

Results:

Bow-tanking: 2.wins and 7.losses win-rate 22% (realistically speaking 44% win-rate would be expected, back in the day I got Moskva after playing only 250 or so cruiser battles and I tryed bow tanking unsuccsesfuly for long time )

 

"Normal" cruiser: 6.wins and 3.losses. 66%. What is more or less similar do my Zao and Hindenburg.

 

So, Moskva is harder do play as a Normal Cruiser than Zao or Hindenburg. But If played properly, it will bring very similar result, than Zao or Hindenburg. Infact Moskva can "mop-up" mutch better than any other cruiser.

 

Bow-tanking Will rarely bring good results.

 

Other observations:

 

Moskva is allready properly tanky, when Bow-tanking. In those 9.battles, averaged about 2.3M of potential damage. When playing as Normal cruiser, averaged about 100k of potential damage more than Hindenburg.

 

Bow-tanking only works in Moskva against BBs, when they are actively trying do overmatch your Bow with AP. If they do not (what will happen with 50mm bow) they will switch do HE and your Will start do recive more damage than before. 

 

Bow tanking is a part of any cruiser playstyle,all cruisers use it several times a battle, but not as a main component. If you think that new 50.mm of bow lets you do use it AS a main component, then you Are wrong.

[Yaskaraxx]

33 minutes ago, mariouus said:

Bow tanking is a part of any cruiser playstyle,all cruisers use it several times a battle, but not as a main component. If you think that new 50.mm of bow lets you do use it AS a main component, then you Are wrong.

I was hoping (as part of an extra strategy, possible with 50mm full armor, only) that the new Moskva could provide somewhat more tough/steady/reliable support upclose for the destroyers (they gonna need that, because it will be literally crawling with USN radar-cruisers hunting them in and around the important caps, as from patch 7.6!)?! Earlier I posted this comment:

 

"As from patch 7.6 onwards, meta will be crawling with radar-cruisers; I much like to play destroyers myself, and must say, having a tanky-50mm-bow-Moskva as a somewhat closer and more reliable/steady support for my destroyer, yes, I would like that, would certainly give my destroyer more possibilities to make-play cuz that close Moskva, that's the one that's drawing focus of enemy ships 85%, that one they are gonna shoot at; resulting in better play for me with my destroyer (=more XP+credits rewards). Tanky 50-mm Moskva kind of antidote for for very many USN radar-cruisers around. Anyway, my opinion, good for gameplay high-tiers."

 

So, I wonder, new Moskva having 50mm armor...could this strategy work (be succesful?!?) together with say  a somewhat more distant Battleship providing range fire-support for Moskva? 

 

 

[lycea]

So we'll see moskva's denying cap areas without a real counter to them....so dd's will have no choice but to leave that area or gamble with their lives. Sounds like good game design!

 

[Yaskaraxx]

On 24-6-2018 at 10:30 PM, lycea said:

So we'll see moskva's denying cap areas without a real counter to them....so dd's will have no choice but to leave that area or gamble with their lives. Sounds like good game design!

 

But, will there realy be lots of Moskva's around as from patch 7.6? I have serious doubts about that: yes, 50mm full armor is an improvement but all other waeknesses fcaus have to remain (to keep fairplay balance). So Moskva will still be an immense big ship (= very easily to spam it constantly with HE-shells, you cant miss it and it burns like hell, almost whole battle, lol), bad manoeuvrable (bad ruddershift for a cruiser), very big and high citadel, slow turret traverse, low rof and immense bad conceilment (even many battleships have better conceilment) and not real special AA (so when a T9 or T10 CV decides to attack you, then you will be ruined for sure). Overall, Moskva was never a polpular ship: by far the most prefer Des Moines, Hindenburg and Zoa, and for good/sound reasons: those ships are simply overall much better and far more pleasant to play with. Warshipstoday ( Russian site) still works and I noticed following stats regarding average XP: Des Moines=1.796; Hindeburg=1701;Zao=1.639; Moskva=1.583 and realize XP is a quite solid indication regarding scorelist/action/rewards (=earned credits). Contrary to Moskva (foremost doing its range shootings, since upclose it will be burned to the ground) the other heavy cruisers play around far closer to where the real action is (=rewarding + more fun + more entertaining at the same time). So, tell me: who's gonna want to play the 50mm armor Moskva? I real wonder...? Fact is also nowadays you almost never see any Moskva-players in battles. 

 

Besides the above, take a look at the heavy cruisers and I think that almost all players agree that Moskva is the most ugly looking T10 cruiser; the other cruisers ALL look so much better. When we decide to play a battle with a T10 cruiser, and decide to invest 20 mins(!) of our time, than most would prefer a nice looking ship, pleasant to play, good results and nice credit-rewards (fcaus played with special camo's -/- 20% expenses + 20% credits) above a creepy Moskva, even if it has full 50mm armor?? Last days I played some 30 battles with Moska, had good score but I didn't like any of the battles (even those with 80+K damage done). For me, Moskva simply is not a pleasant ship to play (when playing it, feels like "doing forced labor", lol, rather dull and very boring. Could well be part of the very reason so many players prefer Zao, Hindenburg or Des Moines.

 

So, don't worry: I realy doubt as from patch 7.6 there suddenly will be many Moskva's around. Anyway, just my personnal opinion. I just decided to get rid of my Moskva (for the 4th time, can't say I gave it a try, lol) and will never ever consider playing it again (even if they would give it 100mm full armor, lol). There are so many much better/pleasant/cool ships to choose from.

[ShinGetsu]

Can you stop saying things that are blatantly false ?... 

 

Or better yet, could you just shut up and learn to play ?

 

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you cant miss it and it burns like hell, almost whole battle, lol)

Then you not only suck at positioning, you also sucks at managing your DCP and heals.

 

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, bad manoeuvrable (bad ruddershift for a cruiser)

It's the turning radius that makes Moskva lack agility. The ruddershift is more than enough.

 

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Very big and high citadel.

Yeah. Behind a 130mm armor belt that will bounce anything when properly angled. And below a 50mm deck which protect very well against plunging fire.

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Slow turret traverse.

Simply wrong. Even with the Reload Mod you have more than enough traverse.

 

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Low Rof

Wrong again. Among the CA it's currently the third best, and with Hindenburg nerf it will becomes the second best. The DPM itself isn't stellar though, that is true.

 

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and immense bad concealment (even many battleships have better conceilment)

That is true. And if there was one things that deserves a buff, it would be this.

 

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And not real special AA (so when a T9 or T10 CV decides to attack you, then you will be ruined for sure).

The AA is more than enough to protect against strike when you hit defAA. Though Essex/Midway AP bombs are really dangerous indeed.

 

 

Look, man, you just sucks. Your stats are sh*t. Just stop talking, stop trying to show your ignorance to people, it's unsightly. You. Are. Just. Bad. Have some self awareness, and stop saying Moskva buff is justified WHEN IT CLEARLY ISN'T. That ship is a fantastic carry in the hands of a good player. It's incredible, it got everything a good player wants : incredible guns in every way (Balistic, damage, fire chance, accuracy, penetration), speed, HP (which means even an unlucky RNG will not outright delete you), armor when angled properly. Its only real downside is the concealment, but there are ways around that.

[Yaskaraxx]

9 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

 

 It's incredible, it got everything a good player wants : incredible guns in every way (Balistic, damage, fire chance, accuracy,

If that comment was about the Stalingrad (X) we would realy agree (would be nice for once, lol). The real TX Russian cruiser is fcaus the  awesome looking/shaped Stalingrad! What a beautifull (battle)cruiser! That one I wanna realy get! What a great ship, yeah, NOW we are talking (..still have to figure out how to get it, getting steel, but THAT one I wanna have & I will get it, In-Any-Which-Way-I-Can. Awesome ship

[Ysterpyp]

On 6/21/2018 at 12:34 PM, ollonborre said:

What will be fun is battleship Moskva vs battleship Hindenburg when it gets its legendary module. Even with a 1 sec reload nerf it still has 12 guns with nice RoF and 1/4 HE pen. So I predict a ton of Hindens when the Moskva buff goes through.

and then citadel them to pieces 

[mariouus]

On 26.6.2018 at 4:48 AM, Yaskaraxx said:

Besides the above, take a look at the heavy cruisers and I think that almost all players agree that Moskva is the most ugly looking T10 cruiser; the other cruisers ALL look so much better

No, Moskva looks damn courageous. For a player who do not know how do play it, Moskvas looks can feel like over doing it. But, when played well (I did say it is somewhat hard do play), it both looks and is a real brute. 

 

It is the only cruiser that can make Minotaur player feel sorry that he/she ever played Weymouth.

[Yaskaraxx]

1 hour ago, mariouus said:

No, Moskva looks damn courageous. For a player who do not know how do play it, Moskvas looks can feel like over doing it. But, when played well (I did say it is somewhat hard do play), it both looks and is a real brute. 

 

It is the only cruiser that can make Minotaur player feel sorry that he/she ever played Weymouth.

Hi!, Mariouus,

 

Actually imo Stalingrad (X), THAT ONE (!!!) is the real nice/cool/pleasant/competative Russian tier 10 to get! And Moskva, well, mehhh (dull/boring, kind of doing forced labor while playing it). Played today some 15 battles with "new" Moskva today (50mm), nothing significantly has changed: yes, you now last a bit longer in battle (= less sudden citadel-hits through aft or bow), but you are in fact retricted to almost same gameplay (can hardly find a real "drive" to play it). On average did some 70k damage (some battles even 100K-150K+) but all battles were rather dull (and you still beter stay at range!..most of the time, so, nothing changed) I play it with the special camo (-/- 50% expenses + 20% credits) but ship kind of never rewards any real credits (pays kind of break-even, on average, when played with all premium consumables). My other tier 10 ships (with also special camo) allways have very reasonable rewards/credits: YueYang/Shima/Grozovoi/Khabarovsk.

 

My last battle (just finished it) I had a shoot-out with a Cleveland (VIII), range shooting, both ships angled optimal...but..guess what: Cleveland did 48K damage to Moskva (=incl. 27k fire damage) while I did only 3.827 damage on Cleveland??????? Allmost all Moskva shells seemed bouncing(??), AP had no effect at all, so mostly I shot HE-shells which had almost no impact on Cleveland. While Cleveland HE-shells were very effective, did enormeous damage on my Moskva.

I noticed that all US cruisers (light or heavy) do fast and very high damage to Moskva; Des Moines shells have excellent AP penetrations. Also Zoa (and Hindy) is able to very easily do high damage to Moskva. I am not talking citadels here, just saying that others cruisers do faster and far better damage. What is the reason for that?? I am very able to angle well and manoeuvre real skilled, yet, damage done by other cruisers is far higher than the damage Moskva can do itself. Maybe reason is (maybe you know?) that aft + bow upper still is 25mm??? (only lower part is 50mm!).

 

Anyway, I am disappointed. I read earlier some forums on other sites and there were real strong players stating: patch 7.6 does not realy change anything for Moskva; seemed they all agreed on that.

 

Anyway, I give up. I am going to sell my Moskva now. Again, The Stalingrad(X) THAT is the real tier 10 to get! Stalingrad is awesome ship! I want to have that one! (...and Moskva, well, for me Moskva is the past) (...sooo many cool/pleasant/competative tier 10 ships to choose from, so why bother with Moskva any longer? There is no need for that, we have soooo many choice.

[ShinGetsu]

HAHAHA.

You actually managed to get rekt by a Cleveland in open water duel ? xDD

 

Stahp it, my sides. xD

[El2aZeR]

I laughed so hard I fell off my chair xD

[piritskenyer]

 

[_DeathWing_]

 

Anyway @Yaskaraxx no matter what ship you get... Stalingrad (even though you're not gonna get this ship), Moskva, Des Moines, Black (you won't get her), Flint (same), you name it. You will be just bad in any of those. You are just bad in this game! FACE IT!

[Yaskaraxx]

6 hours ago, El2aZeR said:

I laughed so hard I fell off my chair xD

Reading yr comment brings a smile on my face, I kind of allways like it when people around me are cheerfull; anyway, what I described about that shoot-out Moskva vs. Cleveland both angled properly, both stationary and Cleveland doing the far higher damage, well, that realy happened: actually, seeing Cleveland doing so much damage to my Moskva even made me smile at that time (I thought by myself: that enemy Cleveland-player must have had real fun, made his day, lol). And technically, as for the reasons of it all, I realy still don't know: flat arcs of Moskva maybe make sooo many accurately fired shells bounce? And upper aft + bow Moskva still 25 mm, why is that, wasn't that supposed to become 50mm? Ahhh, for me, practically, it doesn't matter any more.

 

And as far as Cleveland is concerned: I allways much liked to play it myself, allways entertaining/fun battles with Cleveland(!) Actually did pretty well with Cleveland myself and, for me, just as important: fun/entertaining to play + cool looking ships (plays so pleasantly, squishy, but tricky, lol). ATM I playing with Seattle (IX), ship is "candy for the eye, graphically real cool ship' & I much like it, tricky to play , good arcs, good dpm & fire-settings with IFHE. End-goal is the cool looking (greatly shaped Worcester!), kind of BIG ATLANTA playstyle, that one I lgo for, NOW we are talking!

 

And as for graphics: take a good look at all the USN cruisers: such nice ships to look at, candy for the eye(!) Talking graphically, talking shapes here, such nice ships & pleasant to play around with (Des Moines, Worcester, Seattle...etc. etc...I love em all, whole tech-tree of em, great ships!). 

 

(..and about "the shapes/looks" of Moskva: I honestly sincerely say to you that I allways opined the Moskva being the most ugly ship in game; and I played it with special camo (=+20% credits)..even then: ships is simply ugly and is the very one ship (sooo big) that it even doesn't fit in my big-screen; end then we get the everlasting fires on it which make Moskva some kind of Mary Celeste in battle, makes it even more horrible to watch during battle, lol)

[Lexmechanic]

I love the way the Moskva looks: powerful, ugly, too big.. exactly how the Soviet Union liked to compensate for its lack of sophistication. After playing a couple of games in it, I think I will like it long term. For now however, I seem to have my usual problem of finding the exact right range to be at. Overall I find it tactically beneficial to be further behind but DDs cry every time I don't rush right behind them to radar and clear their cap. Other than unexpected buttsecks from a sniping BB, my real nemesis is the DM. The way it can sling heavy AP at me while completely hidden behind cover is an issue. Still, very early days for me.

[VC381]

3 hours ago, Yaskaraxx said:

I honestly sincerely say to you that I allways opined the Moskva being the most ugly ship in game

 

26 minutes ago, ScoutMkoll said:

I love the way the Moskva looks: powerful, ugly, too big..

 

I know the whole thing about personal tastes being well... personal, don't discuss aesthetic preferences etc. but are we looking at the same ship?

 

Long, sleek flush-deck hull, nice sheer line, beautiful clipper bow, balanced superstructure with two raked funnels, nice angular turrets, just the right mix of curves and straight lines. I dare say Moskva is a contender for best looking ship in game!!!

[1MajorKoenig]

9 minutes ago, VC381 said:

 

 

I know the whole thing about personal tastes being well... personal, don't discuss aesthetic preferences etc. but are we looking at the same ship?

 

Long, sleek flush-deck hull, nice sheer line, beautiful clipper bow, balanced superstructure with two raked funnels, nice angular turrets, just the right mix of curves and straight lines. I dare say Moskva is a contender for best looking ship in game!!!

 

And what about the rebuilt Gangut...? 

 

;-)

[Yaskaraxx]

1 hour ago, VC381 said:

 

Long, sleek flush-deck hull, nice sheer line, beautiful clipper bow, balanced superstructure ..........just the right mix of curves and straight lines.

Yes, agree with you for a full 100%: would add to the list: inspiring & popular with 100% playerbase(!!)..yes, for sure!

 

(..I assume you were referring to our Dasha here? ...yeah, no doubt, you must have been)

[piritskenyer]

[mariouus]

On 2018-6-29 at 3:18 AM, Yaskaraxx said:

My last battle (just finished it) I had a shoot-out with a Cleveland (VIII), range shooting, both ships angled optimal...but..guess what: Cleveland did 48K damage to Moskva (=incl. 27k fire damage) while I did only 3.827 damage on Cleveland??????? Allmost all Moskva shells seemed bouncing(??), AP had no effect at all, so mostly I shot HE-shells which had almost no impact on Cleveland. While Cleveland HE-shells were very effective, did enormeous damage on my Moskva.

I noticed that all US cruisers (light or heavy) do fast and very high damage to Moskva; Des Moines shells have excellent AP penetrations. Also Zoa (and Hindy) is able to very easily do high damage to Moskva. I am not talking citadels here, just saying that others cruisers do faster and far better damage. What is the reason for that?? I am very able to angle well and manoeuvre real skilled, yet, damage done by other cruisers is far higher than the damage Moskva can do itself. Maybe reason is (maybe you know?) that aft + bow upper still is 25mm??? (only lower part is 50mm!).

Does not show the weakness of the ship.Rather it showes weakness of the player.

 

Once killed enemy divisioning Des Moines, Atago and Fletcher in 3vs1 situation in my allmighty Mogami. It does not show that Des Moines/Atago/Fletcher are under-powered.

[piritskenyer]

1 hour ago, mariouus said:

[...]

Once killed enemy divisioning Des Moines, Atago and Fletcher in 3vs1 situation in my allmighty Mogami. It does not show that Des Moines/Atago/Fletcher are under-powered.

 

8-9-X division?

 

 

When was this?

 

EDIT: Was this when Mogami was powerful as all fnck back before the B/AFT-EM nerf?

[mariouus]

1 hour ago, piritskenyer said:

 

8-9-X division

It was 04:30AM MM

 

Des Moines and Fletcher were in one division. Atago was in division with Tirpitz. They where all members of the same small clan ( it was actually at that time 4 member clan apparently, they did try do recruit me as 5th member.) Tirpitz was present at the same flank, but was skillful enough do ground himself on a island and was stuck.

 

Did count them (exept Tirpitz, who was grounded) as a division. Because they where from the same clan and were cooperating in their own weird way. Even If individual performance ment, that their cooperation efforts made them more likely do loose.

 

 

[piritskenyer]

1 hour ago, mariouus said:

It was 04:30AM MM

 

Des Moines and Fletcher were in one division. Atago was in division with Tirpitz. They where all members of the same small clan ( it was actually at that time 4 member clan apparently, they did try do recruit me as 5th member.) Tirpitz was present at the same flank, but was skillful enough do ground himself on a island and was stuck.

 

Did count them (exept Tirpitz, who was grounded) as a division. Because they where from the same clan and were cooperating in their own weird way. Even If individual performance ment, that their cooperation efforts made them more likely do loose.

 

 

 

Ah, okay I see it. It sounded weird because divisions cannot be formed with more than +1 tier difference these days.

[Lexmechanic]

Huh. The Moskva really clicked for me from the beginning but thus far I can actually only play her in as that active, roaming ship. Between good speed, workable agility and the  long range of her guns, I can reliably troll enemies of all sizes. When I try to park her further back, by a comfortable island or rock, it becomes so easy to focus that spot for the whole enemy team, any such location becomes untenable very quickly.

 

That being said, I noticed that other players tend to favor the latter style but seemingly with much more success.