Moskva (X) - fore + aft armor 50mm (!)

[ShinGetsu]

32 minutes ago, Yaskaraxx said:

Yeah, come to think of it: DUCKS are also fast!!!!...so yeah, yr right on there. And Molotow being given Moskva gunzzzzz would be very fine ship at tier 10, since its "Agile", lol (..just ...GID GUD, as you say it, lol).

Donskoi is exactly that. Molotov guns on a tIX hull.

 

But go on. Ignore every other argument I make, I'm pleased to see you're digging your own grave. I'm not the one asking for buff on a ship that works quite fine.

 

Though if I ever wanted to buff Moskva in any way, I'd rather have a better concealment. Something like 12.5 instead of the current horrible 13.8.

[Titan_net]

4 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

And buffing Moskva is bad because it doesn't need it.

 

I thought we had established that bow-on tanking is not a useful tactic on Moskva. So this "buff" is unlikely to change Moskva performance in any meaningful way, yes? Then why are you so opposed to the idea that Moskva may survive a bit longer in non-expert hands? 

 

 

4 hours ago, ShinGetsu said:

What's wrong with having a bit of a challenge ? What's wrong with having ships harder than others ?

 

What's wrong with WG trying to make the least played TX cruiser a bit more fun to play?

[ShinGetsu]

14 minutes ago, Titan_net said:

I thought we had established that bow-on tanking is not a useful tactic on Moskva. So this "buff" is unlikely to change Moskva performance in any meaningful way, yes?

Either you're being a hypocrite, or I did not make myself clear enough. If it's the second case, I apologize.

 

So :

- Yes, bow-tanking is a stupid tactic. It basically means you are giving up all your mobility to soak shells temporarily, and it stucks you into a very awkward position until you die or the enemy dies. Usually bow-tanking means you overextended anyway.

It's already a bad idea to bow-tank with BBs in the first place. With a cruiser it's even worse.

 

- OF COURSE the buff would change things. Give me a 50mm armor plating and the next time I'll play Moskva I'll wait a bit the enemy team clear before yolo-rushing a BB, making him bounce without even making any effort to angle my ship before obliterating him at close-range. This. Is. Stupid. Gameplay. It's way too easy, doesn't requires you any sort of skill besides knowing which target to pick and when. I don't want that. If I wanted to play a dumb and easy ship that is completely OP at close quarter, I'd pick my Hindenburg.

 

Moskva is perfectly able to tank, provided you angle properly, provided you know what you are doing. Idiots that bow-on with a cruiser at 15km deserves nothing but to sink fast, that's all.

 

Moskva have strenghts and weaknesses. The 25mm bow is a perfectly acceptable weaknesses because you can work around it and use its strenght instead (gun range, main belt armor, speed, accuracy, gun balistic)

This buff means removing one of the main weakness of Moskva for absolutely no reason.

 

14 minutes ago, Titan_net said:

Then why are you so opposed to the idea that Moskva may survive a bit longer in non-expert hands? 

 

Because having ships that are harder to play than other is perfectly fine. Can't we have a bit of a challenge in this game ? Do we really need to have all ships in this game being as dumb as Hindenburg, requiring absolutely no efforts to make it works ? Then what the point of having different nations ? Just get one nation and let the clone fight each others.

 

14 minutes ago, Titan_net said:

What's wrong with WG trying to make the least played TX cruiser a bit more fun to play?

Because it's already a fun ship. Actually that buff will makes it boring.

[Yaskaraxx]

Purchased Moskva again yesterday (because of the coming 50mm armor buff, made me enthousiastic to play this ship again), played some 9 battles yesterday with it , on average did some 75k damage with it,but that 25 mm armor???...ohh man...those very accurate deadly battleships can toooooo easily make use of that ruining yr Moskva with just a couple of salvo's from even 19+ kms range. The way my battles go: I try to position, evade, use islands/smoke to turn...BUT eventually those excellent hunters (the battleships) take away 85% of yr health easily, leaving yr "remains" for the destroyers to feast at. I have in total 4x 19 points captains for Russian ships, however, in past I decided to get rid of Moskva and never to play it again (actually only kept playing cruisers Molotow(=great!) + Murmansk=fun). And now, due to up-coming patch 7.6 armor buff (making Moskva competative same level as other heavy T10 cruisers) I got enthousiastic again for playing the Moskva: since with full 50mm armor plating I will be able to play it in far more entertaining/attractive ways. So, WG, good buff! Just my personnal opinion. My Alabama (VIII) I use only for credits-grinding (meaning: just like Tirpitz I never ever use any premium consumables or flags for it, all about doing some average 150K credits grindings per battle); and yet, my Alabama quite easily goes after any Moskva I detect since I know those ships are such an easy prey an very rewardable for my Alabama-credits-grindings.

 

(btw: does anyone know what going on with WarshipsToday? seems site not working for quite some time now and it was allways nice site for getting recent stats for saw last 6 months. Will that site ever gonna work again? does anyone know?)

[ShinGetsu]

Again, if you get almost deleted in one salvo, you're just bad. Learn. To. Angle.

[Yaskaraxx]

17 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Again, if you get almost deleted in one salvo, you're just bad. Learn. To. Angle.

yeah, wouldn't it be nice facing 1x enemy ship only, shooting at you?...!!!; problem is there you start with 12 enemy ships (played by often real smart players) and in practice more ships same time shooting at ya (its called: Cross-firing...and bear in mind yr quite excellent detectabble) and then on top often you face some smart and ever-lurking-dangerous dd's trying to make adantage of yr being engaged/occupied ( and thus angling, best way you can) enemy ships, and sometimes even some  the torp-planes comin in (smelling an easy prey from afar. those nasty bugs! lol)...think of that & then try to decide how yr gonna angle best ways (...ahhh, can tell ya stories there, lol). So, actualy you  "bring nothing new to the table", so to say, lol

 

(btw: I never played any Hindenburg but I allways regarded it as realy excellent/nice/entertaining ship: with my credits-grinding Tirp + Alabama musts say I allways respect Hindy much; certainly not an easy prey...worse, ya can end-up being the prey for Hindy!...so...if having choice I rather go after the tasty and easy snacks such as Moskva 25mm aft+ bow)

[ShinGetsu]

1 minute ago, Yaskaraxx said:

yeah, wouldn't it be nice facing 1x enemy ship only, shooting at you?...!!!; problem is there you start with 12 enemy ships (played by often real smart players) and in practice more ships same time shooting at ya (its called: Cross-firing...and bear in mind yr quite excellent detectabble) and then on top often you face some smart and ever-lurking-dangerous dd's trying to make adantage of yr being engaged/occupied ( and thus angling, best way you can) enemy ships, and sometimes even some  the torp-planes comin in (smelling an easy prey from afar. those nasty bugs! lol)...think of that & then try to decide how yr gonna angle best ways (...ahhh, can tell ya stories there, lol). So, actualy you  "bring nothing new to the table", so to say, lol

 

And avoiding being crossfired is called "situational awareness" and "positioning". It seems you lack both.

[Infiriel]

Soviet bias?

 

Still, i think the buff isn`t needed.

2 godziny temu, ShinGetsu napisał:

Again, if you get almost deleted in one salvo, you're just bad. Learn. To. Angle.

Unless it`s a Yamato blapping you from 20km away...

[mariouus]

1 hour ago, Yaskaraxx said:

Hindy!...so...if having choice I rather go after the tasty and easy snacks such as Moskva 25mm aft+ bow)

Most BBs you meet can pen Hindenburg bow aswell.

 

Moskva does not need bow buff, its armor allready makes it really hard do tackle with normal cruiser. Only exeption is Hindenburg, but this will maybe get nerfed.

 

50.mm bow is idiotic.

 

Problem what Moskva has, is that it is "blessed" with both really bad consilement and manovrability. Basically If you choose rudder module you get workable manovrability, but afwull consilement. Or with consilement module, you would get workable stealth, but afwull manovrability.

 

Rather than giving it moronic Bow. They should buff either manovrability or consilement (do upgrated value maybe?).

 

[Yaskaraxx]

1 hour ago, ShinGetsu said:

"situational awareness"

nahhhh, nothing realy special about that: its just a natural human skill; we are all born with it (some have it more, some less); in a broader sense part of Human Survival Instincts, applies to all aspects of life (thus, including gaming and forum-behaviour, some are more gifted & others less, lol).

 

As from patch 7.6 onwards, meta will be crawling with radar-cruisers; I much like to play destroyers myself, and must say, having a tanky-50mm-bow-Moskva as a somewhat closer and more reliable/steady support for my destroyer, yes, I would like that, would certainly give my destroyer more possibilities to make-play cuz that close Moskva, that's the one that's drawing focus of enemy ships 85%, that one they are gonna shoot at; resulting in better play for me with my destroyer (=more XP+credits rewards). Tanky 50-mm Moskva kind of antidote for for very many USN radar-cruisers around. Anyway, my opinion, good for gameplay high-tiers.

[mariouus]

15 minutes ago, Yaskaraxx said:

As from patch 7.6 onwards, meta will be crawling with radar-cruisers; I much like to play destroyers myself, and must say, having a tanky-50mm-bow-Moskva as a somewhat closer and more reliable/steady support for my destroyer, yes, I would like that, would certainly give my destroyer more possibilities to make-play cuz that close Moskva, that's the one that's drawing focus of enemy ships 85%, that one they are gonna shoot at; resulting in better play for me with my destroyer (=more XP+credits rewards). Tanky 50-mm Moskva kind of antidote for for very many USN radar-cruisers around. Anyway, my opinion, good for gameplay high-tiers

No, it will not create any antidote. What it will create against cruisers is large unmovable object (Ok granted, slowly reversing object) what takes alot of more skill and luck do kill than it takes do play it. It would basically be Japanise Heavy-tank a'la WoWs.

 

And it would not address the actual short-comings of Moskva 

[Yaskaraxx]

15 minutes ago, mariouus said:

large unmovable object (Ok granted, slowly reversing object) what takes alot of more skill and luck do kill than it takes do play it.

Clearly you are talking about Des Moines here! And yes, it realy takes great effort and skill to dig-out that stationary/hiding/luring/lurking 27mm armor-plated (BB-shell-bouncing!) Des Moines out of his deadly hiding place! Yes, fully agree. That will be one of the important tasks for the new tier X competative 50mm-armor-plated Moskva. As I already stated earlier: Moskva will present itself as "The Knight in Shining Armor" defending and supporting the destroyers against the very many hidden-radar-lurkers. I will proudly sign up for that duty, lol

[mariouus]

28 minutes ago, Yaskaraxx said:

Clearly you are talking about Des Moines here! And yes, it realy takes great effort and skill to dig-out that stationary/hiding/luring/lurking 27mm armor-plated (BB-shell-bouncing!) Des Moines out of his deadly hiding place! Yes, fully agree. That will be one of the important tasks for the new tier X competative 50mm-armor-plated Moskva. As I already stated earlier: Moskva will present itself as "The Knight in Shining Armor" defending and supporting the destroyers against the very many hidden-radar-lurkers. I will proudly sign up for that duty, lol

If I would have wanted do say Des Moines, I would have. 27.mm on Des Moines will bounce AP shells, when angled correctly, up-to 381mm Guns. All the other will overmatch. It is fully penetratable by any 8" and larger HE shell. 50.mm will bounce ALL AP round, and is only penetratable by Hindenburg and Henry (running IFHE) HE shells.

 

Thing is, I am not worried about bad players getting it. Usually Cruisers do not die from bow overmatches, but by over-exposing their sides. So bad players will mostly die as quickly and horribly as before. While occasionaly being able to do mutch better then they deserve, due Dumbing down of the game. Who I am worried about is good players.

[piritskenyer]

41 minutes ago, Yaskaraxx said:

Clearly you are talking about Des Moines here! And yes, it realy takes great effort and skill to dig-out that stationary/hiding/luring/lurking 27mm armor-plated (BB-shell-bouncing!) Des Moines out of his deadly hiding place! Yes, fully agree. That will be one of the important tasks for the new tier X competative 50mm-armor-plated Moskva. As I already stated earlier: Moskva will present itself as "The Knight in Shining Armor" defending and supporting the destroyers against the very many hidden-radar-lurkers. I will proudly sign up for that duty, lol

The only shells you'll bounce with 27mm of plating is 15" guns, basically T8 and one T9 BB, ships you can stomp in TX cruisers *anyway*

[Yaskaraxx]

9 hours ago, mariouus said:

Most BBs you meet can pen Hindenburg bow aswell.

 

Moskva does not need bow buff, its armor allready makes it really hard do tackle with normal cruiser. Only exeption is Hindenburg, but this will maybe get nerfed.

 

50.mm bow is idiotic.

 

Problem what Moskva has, is that it is "blessed" with both really bad consilement and manovrability. Basically If you choose rudder module you get workable manovrability, but afwull consilement. Or with consilement module, you would get workable stealth, but afwull manovrability.

 

Rather than giving it moronic Bow. They should buff either manovrability or consilement (do upgrated value maybe?).

 

Hi!...I respect yr highly personnal view of it all, yes, I respect ALL PLAYERS (average or experts)  opinions, fcaus, that's what a good forum thread intends to do(!), so, yes, ok with me, np

 

So, please also respect MY personnal view on developments re the armor buff of Moskva (please?):

DM Donskoi (IX) = playable with 2x ruddershift upgrades, yes, np. BUT Moskva is a total different ship; I purchased it 3 times and I got rid of it 3 times, WHY? Because the present ship simply is not pleasant to play with (=compared to the far better and far more enjoyable Hindenburg + Des Moines + Zao....at present those ships are easily capable to totally devastate/destroy the clumsy Moskva, so easily), Moskva at present state with 25mm armor(????????...tier 10????) is NOT competative with the others: in short Moskva proved to be: no fun, not competable, not rewarding...and we are talking about a tier X ship here(!). At present, for instance, Des Moines is so much more rewarding: plays in/around caps (that's where the real credits are earned for cruisers), has far better conceilment, excellent ROF, good manoeverable, radar + 27mm armor so it can easily stick out its neck (since 27mm bounces shells) and destroy very easily many destroyers with its immense ROF; the destroyers have no defence whatsoever if they go in risky caps. This makes great XP + credits for Des Moines players (doesn't even matter if they are expert players or average players, they easily end-up 1-3rd place score-list shown after battle). 

Then we have the Moskva (present state): = foremost open water-ship(!) + very, very easily detectible + burns like hell!!! (almost every HE-shell starts a new fire, contrary to the other heavy cruisers which catch fires far less!)+ clumsy+ bad manoevrable+ lower rof (10 secs) + VERY BIG SHIP (= so, easy to hit, ship doesnt even fully fit in my big-screen!..+ 25mm armor, very large parts of ship easily to hi 25mm (at tier 10????)...think of that one)...etc....I myself (and many, many others..read the forums here + on many other sites, excellent players included) regard this Moskva as some freak-ship (compared to the other TX cruisers) and defenitely not worth grinding for: better go for the Hindenburg or ZAO or Des Moines.......this is proven by facts, stats prove people simply dont like to play Moskva at present state. Should this be ignored? Does  the ship need a buff to make it interesting and competative again? Yes, fcaus, and WG no doubt must have noticed this: meta has changed a lot last years: French lines added , RN cruiser line added...while Moskva kept unchanged(?) Look around at tier 10 and realize objectively what the "old Moskva" at present is up against (very, very strong ships introduced last years...!)

 

In view of above facts it's quite clear that Moskva realy needed an upgrade...so now we get one: 50mm full plating + other weaknesses Moskva stay unchanged, so hightiers gameplay stays balanced, all about fairplay and balance. In short: very well job done by WG imo!

 

Is the armor buff 50mm a good one? Will it prove to make Moskva being playable again? Will the new buff refresh a real enthousiastic drive for players to grind for the tier 10 Moskva as an end-goal?

 

Yes, I am convinced it does! Made me enthousiastic to purchase it again and many more will enthousiastically focus on their tier 10 goal: the real competative Moskva

 

 

[ShinGetsu]

Sigh.*

 

Ok, I give up. 46%WR player seems to know better than me which ships need a buff.

 

After all, who cares about learning how to play, huh ? If a complete potato can't faceroll anything without any effort, the ship is obviously bad.

 

 

Btw :

5 hours ago, Yaskaraxx said:

(almost every HE-shell starts a new fire, contrary to the other heavy cruisers which catch fires far less!)

Complete Bullsh*t.

All cruisers shares the same fire resistance. Learn the mechanics.

 

5 hours ago, Yaskaraxx said:

lower rof (10.5 secs)

Hindenburg 10 seconds, Zao 12 seconds, Henri IV 12.5 seconds. Only DM with its 5.5 seconds really does much better. And Hindenburg will get soon nerfed to 11 seconds as well.

 

5 hours ago, Yaskaraxx said:

this is proven by facts,

The only fact there is that you're a bad player and you refuse to learn a ship strenghts.

 

 

 

[mariouus]

5 hours ago, Yaskaraxx said:

So, please also respect MY personnal view on developments re the armor buff of Moskva (please?):

DM Donskoi (IX) = playable with 2x ruddershift upgrades, yes, np. BUT Moskva is a total different ship; I purchased it 3 times and I got rid of it 3 times, WHY? Because the present ship simply is not pleasant to play with (=compared to the far better and far more enjoyable Hindenburg + Des Moines + Zao....at present those ships are easily capable to totally devastate/destroy the clumsy Moskva, so easily), Moskva at present state with 25mm armor(????????...tier 10????) is NOT competative with the others: in short Moskva proved to be: no fun, not competable, not rewarding...and we are talking about a tier X ship here(!). At present, for instance, Des Moines is so much more rewarding: plays in/around caps (that's where the real credits are earned for cruisers), has far better conceilment, excellent ROF, good manoeverable, radar + 27mm armor so it can easily stick out its neck (since 27mm bounces shells) and destroy very easily many destroyers with its immense ROF; the destroyers have no defence whatsoever if they go in risky caps. This makes great XP + credits for Des Moines players (doesn't even matter if they are expert players or average players, they easily end-up 1-3rd place score-list shown after battle). 

Then we have the Moskva (present state): = foremost open water-ship(!) + very, very easily detectible + burns like hell!!! (almost every HE-shell starts a new fire, contrary to the other heavy cruisers which catch fires far less!)+ clumsy+ bad manoevrable+ lower rof (10 secs) + VERY BIG SHIP (= so, easy to hit, ship doesnt even fully fit in my big-screen!..+ 25mm armor, very large parts of ship easily to hi 25mm (at tier 10????)...think of that one)...etc....I myself (and many, many others..read the forums here + on many other sites, excellent players included) regard this Moskva as some freak-ship (compared to the other TX cruisers) and defenitely not worth grinding for: better go for the Hindenburg or ZAO or Des Moines.......this is proven by facts, stats prove people simply dont like to play Moskva at present state. Should this be ignored? Does  the ship need a buff to make it interesting and competative again? Yes, fcaus, and WG no doubt must have noticed this: meta has changed a lot last years: French lines added , RN cruiser line added...while Moskva kept unchanged(?) Look around at tier 10 and realize objectively what the "old Moskva" at present is up against (very, very strong ships introduced last years...!)

Ofcourse some Moskva player are enthusastic, just like GZ players where enthusastic about OP versions of GZ, or Kutuzov players are enthusastic about Kutuzov. Enthusiasm does not make it balanced.

 

Moskva is allready very strong against Zao. Zao deffenetly can not challange exually skilled Moskva player on open water.

 

What 50.mm of bow and stern armor does, is that it severly lowers skill requierment of Moskva player against everything, specially against other cruisers. It will create situation where other cruiser players have do jump through very high hoops do tackle it. While Moskva player just has do master delicate art of showing-up.

 

 

I actually do think Moskva does need slight buff. In either Manouvrability or Consilement department. So it could cruise closer do enemy and has somewhat lower skill requirement.

[_DeathWing_]

@ShinGetsuIkr. I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and [edited] out a smarter statement than everything OP wrote here. 

 

Any kind of buff wouldn't help him to improve his gameplay in any ship. Such abysmal stats 

[Yaskaraxx]

44 minutes ago, ShinGetsu said:

Sigh.*

 

Ok, I give up. 46%WR player seems to know better than me which ships need a buff.

 

After all, who cares about learning how to play, huh ? If a complete potato can't faceroll anything without any effort, the ship is obviously bad.

 

 

Btw :

Complete Bullsh*t.

All cruisers shares the same fire resistance. Learn the mechanics.

 

Hindenburg 10 seconds, Zao 12 seconds, Henri IV 12.5 seconds. Only DM with its 5.5 seconds really does much better. And Hindenburg will get soon nerfed to 11 seconds as well.

 

The only fact there is that you're a bad player and you refuse to learn a ship strenghts.

 

 

 

Ahh, well, I value an objective helicopterview mentality above some "biassed tunnel-like field of vision" lol. In short: contrary to  Zao+ Hindenburg+Des Moines which all have a short-list for weaknesses + a long-list for their strenghts, the Moskva faces a short-list for strenghts and a long-list for its weaknesses (so, completely the opposite). The way you advocate the present freaky 25mm Moskva  kind of ressembles "some snake oil salesman trying to sell shoes without soles to the blind at some marketplace" lol. Luckily sanity/fairplay/sportiveness has prevailed since WG obviously already decided that Moskva gets its soooo long overdue and needed buff! 

[piritskenyer]

3 hours ago, _DeathWing_ said:

@ShinGetsuIkr. I could eat a bowl of alphabet soup and [edited] out a smarter statement than everything OP wrote here. 

 

Any kind of buff wouldn't help him to improve his gameplay in any ship. Such abysmal stats 

@Yaskaraxx

[mariouus]

2 hours ago, Yaskaraxx said:

Ahh, well, I value an objective helicopterview mentality above some "biassed tunnel-like field of vision" lol. In short: contrary to  Zao+ Hindenburg+Des Moines which all have a short-list for weaknesses + a long-list for their strenghts, the Moskva faces a short-list for strenghts and a long-list for its weaknesses (so, completely the opposite). The way you advocate the present freaky 25mm Moskva  kind of ressembles "some snake oil salesman trying to sell shoes without soles to the blind at some marketplace" lol. Luckily sanity/fairplay/sportiveness has prevailed since WG obviously already decided that Moskva gets its soooo long overdue and needed buff! 

List of Moskvas problems does not include lack of protection. Its armor and amount of HP is currently best against CA vs CA. Only Hindenburg can effectivley fight against it due its high HE pentration. Athe same time Moskva has no problem pentrating Hindenburg either. It 50.mm casemate combined with tall side-belt makes it almost invurnable against CA HE and AP shells.

 

While Hindenburg and Des Moines have 27.mm bow armor, so they can not be overmatched by ships with 15.inch guns. But overally Moskva has best armor protection when angled correctly against BBs, even better than on Hindenburgs. Because Moskva has very high belt and and 50.mm of casemate armor. Hindenburg, Henry and Zao has 30.mm casemate armor so they can get their side overmatched by gun starting from 431mm (More than Half tier.X BBs) and Des Moines, has 27.mm armor so it sidearmor and Bow/stern is overmatchable by all Tier.X BBs. Henry and Zao has the same 25mm bow and stern like on the Moskva. Minotour has 16.mm bow/casemate/stern. 

 

So do conclude, Moskva has best anti-CA armor by a wide marging. Its overall armor against BB are inferior do Hindenburg, when unproperly angled. But when angled correctly Moskva also has best armor against BBs. Its 25.mm bow (what is not weak, rather it is a standard). Because its somewhat weaker bow is offset heavily by un-overmatchable side armor, so it will eat lot less Penetrations than any other cruiser. 27.mm bow on armor will only protect against low tier BBs, in tier X it is close do being irrelevant.

 

ShinGetsu does not have "Biassed tunnel-like field of vision". He is right and you are wrong. 1.Moskva has best armor protection. 2. All tier.X cruisers share the same fireresitance. 3. Moskvas firepower is good.

 

By giving it idiotic Bow and Stern they are buffing the wrong thing. By buffing allready BEST armor protection, they will just cater for people who does not know how do play any cruiser. In other word they are just dumbing down the game.

 

Moskvas list of shortcoming only include 1. Consilement 2. Manouvrability. Buffing one of them would actually make it into ship with lower skill-requirement while still keeping it balanced.

[El2aZeR]

10 hours ago, Yaskaraxx said:

Hi!...I respect yr highly personnal view of it all, yes, I respect ALL PLAYERS (average or experts)  opinions

 

As you have clearly shown by essentially calling everyone who contests your point of view an idiot.

[Yaskaraxx]

3 hours ago, mariouus said:

List of Moskvas problems does not include lack of protection. Its armor and amount of HP is currently best against CA vs CA. Only Hindenburg can effectivley fight against it due its high HE pentration. Athe same time Moskva has no problem pentrating Hindenburg either. It 50.mm casemate combined with tall side-belt makes it almost invurnable against CA HE and AP shells.

 

While Hindenburg and Des Moines have 27.mm bow armor, so they can not be overmatched by ships with 15.inch guns. But overally Moskva has best armor protection when angled correctly against BBs, even better than on Hindenburgs. Because Moskva has very high belt and and 50.mm of casemate armor. Hindenburg, Henry and Zao has 30.mm casemate armor so they can get their side overmatched by gun starting from 431mm (More than Half tier.X BBs) and Des Moines, has 27.mm armor so it sidearmor and Bow/stern is overmatchable by all Tier.X BBs. Henry and Zao has the same 25mm bow and stern like on the Moskva. Minotour has 16.mm bow/casemate/stern. 

 

So do conclude, Moskva has best anti-CA armor by a wide marging. Its overall armor against BB are inferior do Hindenburg, when unproperly angled. But when angled correctly Moskva also has best armor against BBs. Its 25.mm bow (what is not weak, rather it is a standard). Because its somewhat weaker bow is offset heavily by un-overmatchable side armor, so it will eat lot less Penetrations than any other cruiser. 27.mm bow on armor will only protect against low tier BBs, in tier X it is close do being irrelevant.

 

ShinGetsu does not have "Biassed tunnel-like field of vision". He is right and you are wrong. 1.Moskva has best armor protection. 2. All tier.X cruisers share the same fireresitance. 3. Moskvas firepower is good.

 

By giving it idiotic Bow and Stern they are buffing the wrong thing. By buffing allready BEST armor protection, they will just cater for people who does not know how do play any cruiser. In other word they are just dumbing down the game.

 

Moskvas list of shortcoming only include 1. Consilement 2. Manouvrability. Buffing one of them would actually make it into ship with lower skill-requirement while still keeping it balanced.

Thanks, But NO Thanks! I prefer my shoes having soles(!!!), lol, so, time to move on! bye!!!

 

(...next yr gonna tell me ya got yr highest cruiser-reward-emblem with the 25mm Moskva???...lollol...must have been the Des Moines and/or Minotaur, easy does it. So funny & amusing at the same time, great!, bye)

[mariouus]

23 minutes ago, Yaskaraxx said:

So funny & amusing at the same time, great!, bye

Not really. It is less than amuzing when person after 16k battles has no understanding of game mechanics.

[piritskenyer]

5 hours ago, Yaskaraxx said:

Thanks, But NO Thanks! I prefer my shoes having soles(!!!), lol, so, time to move on! bye!!!

 

(...next yr gonna tell me ya got yr highest cruiser-reward-emblem with the 25mm Moskva???...lollol...must have been the Des Moines and/or Minotaur, easy does it. So funny & amusing at the same time, great!, bye)