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Lyno_Lemon

Austria-Hungary?

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Just want to pose a question to everyone, including Wargaming.

 

How much would people like to see a Austro-Hungarian battleship tech tree? Obviously this'd probably only go as far as T6 and would probably require made up upgrades as these are WW1 ships (e.g. Armour and AA upgrades). I would say we could have:

Austria-Hungary (Battleships)

T1 - Zenta class protected cruiser maybe?

T2 - Habsburg class

T3 - Erzherzog Karl class

T4 - Radetzky class

T5 - Tegetthoff class

T6 - Ersatz Monarch class (Only guns were actually built so is a paper ship)

Yugaslavia (Destroyers)
T7 - Dubrovnik

T8 - Beograd class

 

T9 - ?

T10 - ?

And I'm lost for T9 and 10, but all of those are paper anyway with the exception of IJN+ USN DDs, Iowa, Yamato and (kind of) Lion, so I'm sure WG can think of something.

 

Thought?

 

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I'd personally prefer to see those Yugoslav DDs in a Yugoslav DD line (although I'm pretty sure we will never see it as WG loves ignoring one of biggest parts of its player base unless its Poland :Smile-_tongue:) or a Pan-European tree, also it would actually make more sense to put Austro-Hungarian ships in the Yugoslav tree as Yugoslavia inherited all its ships (and quite a few were build in Croatia) and had more ships on its own, that is if you want to mix those two in first place. Maybe they might make something like an Adriatic or Mediterranean line?

 

But yeah, I'd love the idea, I just feel like we need to make ourselves loud about it for both Austro-Hungary or Yugoslavia on reddit (best example for that would be Haida which is a clone ship as well)

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Well T1 is usualy some more "modern"(closer to WW2) design boat whit guns so probably not.

T4 and up needs Fantasy-refits to work out(no AA on these WW1 ships)

 

These things would work better some Common Minor EU nations tree/Prems,than a complete tree.(and then "HC" nationalists from those countrys would tear each other apart over that nonsense:Smile_teethhappy:)

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Was thinking a few days the same, but giving them more than Tier V is not reasonable...alone!

 

But if you had a few nations that is limited up to Tier V...?

 

Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Belgium and Portugal would be 4 Nations who only participanted in WWI and 2 of them no longer existed after the war...so yeah that would be a posibility.

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1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

Why do AH BBs transition into Yugo DDs?

I figured since Austria-Hungary died after WW1, but Yugoslavia was born from it (and both Austria and Hungary are landlocked), as well as Yugoslavia temporarily inheriting the Austro-Hungarian Navy, the transition is a bit like Russian Empire to USSR in game.

Problem is, while I'd love to see these ships, you can't really go past T6 with Battleships, since Yugoslavia didn't really have any BB's (other than AH's old ones) and AH had a rather small comparable navy (most ships are pre-dreadnoughts). Since they started building the Ersatz Monarch class but cancelled it as the war got worse, you can argue that ship up to T6 as I'd imagine it to rival New Mexico and Queen Elizabeth. Just give it a modernised hull - it's a paper ship anyway.

1 hour ago, Mandalorianer said:

Austria-Hungary, Ottoman Empire, Belgium and Portugal

Thing is, Ottoman Empire was the poorest superpower by far and their navy was only a match due to the German ships they were sold. You could also give the 4 battlecruisers Britain sold them but never delivered. But all of these ships would sit at T5 or T6 at a push. I believe Portugal was also a weak naval power (possibly just DD's or premiums possible there) and there army fought alongside the British. I'd imagine a similar situation to Poland in game here. Belgium again is a similar story. Small country and negligible naval presence (their navy was founded in 1917).

 

1 hour ago, Bmsrt said:

Well T1 is usualy some more "modern"(closer to WW2) design boat whit guns so probably not.

T4 and up needs Fantasy-refits to work out(no AA on these WW1 ships)

Let's be honest, no one cares about T1 ships and some of them are imaginary anyway (I think). Would be nice for a somewhat interesting T1 though. Perhaps the Yugoslavian Partizankada (Borrowed British Flower class Corvette in WW2)

I really don't mind some amount of realistic fantasy to allow the ships to be playable - since there is no game-mode for WW1 ship configuration only.

 

1 hour ago, IamTroublemaker said:

Maybe they might make something like an Adriatic or Mediterranean line?

I guess the inclusion of the Greek, etc. ships may be good, but we still have the issue that T7 and up will be fantasy or completely made-up.

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Beograd T5 prem DD, Dubrovnik T7 prem DD and Tegethoff (Szent istvand in particular) T4 prem BB (regulsr Tegenthoff can be ina tech tree waay down the line timewise)

Ive been looking into making a Austrohungarian/Yugo tech tree for 2 years, when i have it done i'll share it with you.

:Smile_Default:

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8 minutes ago, Lyno_Lemon said:

I figured since Austria-Hungary died after WW1, but Yugoslavia was born from it (and both Austria and Hungary are landlocked), as well as Yugoslavia temporarily inheriting the Austro-Hungarian Navy, the transition is a bit like Russian Empire to USSR in game.

The USSR showed more continuity with the Russian Empire than Yugoslavia with Austria-Hungary. That's as if half the PA DDs were just attached to the IJN DD line, because Korea and such became independent from the defeated Japanese and some Japanese ships were handed over to the Chinese.

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3 hours ago, Lyno_Lemon said:

I guess the inclusion of the Greek, etc. ships may be good, but we still have the issue that T7 and up will be fantasy or completely made-up.

 

To be fair most lines struggle from T8 and above and are paper, and I'm pretty sure there were some crazy designs in Yugoslavia, but I'm afraid most of them were destroyed later.

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Creating a mixed line of BBs, CLs and DDs would be a bad idea as that would require leveling three different captains which would time consuming to get them to 10pt not to mention 19pt. Austro-Hungary and Yugoslavia Navies could be put in one Southern Europe or Mediterranean Tree or in Pan European Tree. Trying to put every single European nation in its own tree will result in large number of paper, if not completely imaginary, ships. Sure every nation probably have some ships designs that were never realized but are those appropriate for this game is completely different thing. I doubt that Yugoslavia or Greece or Turkey ever designed ships that could match Des Moines or Hindenburg at T10. One tree that will combine several nation would have more sense. Greece and Turkey had used Fletcher, Allen M Sumner and Gearing class destroyers, Spain also had Fletchers, Yugoslavian Split is also candidate for T8 regular of premium ship. All those nation could combine one good DD line, cruiser line would be questionable above T7, BB line above T5 or T6. On its own even the DD line would be hard to complete. 

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As mentioned before, AU-YU DD line

 

 

 

II - Tatra
III : Durmitor

IV : 1600t DL design (paper ship - AU)

V : Beograd

VI : Kotor 
VII : Dubrovnik

VIII : Split (with three different hull configs - as designed, as Spalato and as finished)

 

If not, just pickup some interesting DDs for Pan-European line, Dubrovnik  and Beograd. Split maybe as a premium due to interesting options. 

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I know next to nothing about them, but maybe they could do something interesting with Radetzky's mixed gun calibers. If they're just going to be vanilla, gimmick-free ships, I won't really be interested. Low tiers are already pretty simplistic with the lack of consumables and uprade choices.

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2 hours ago, Zen71_sniper said:

As mentioned before, AU-YU DD line

 

 

 

II - Tatra
III : Durmitor

IV : 1600t DL design (paper ship - AU)

V : Beograd

VI : Kotor 
VII : Dubrovnik

VIII : Split (with three different hull configs - as designed, as Spalato and as finished)

Sounds about right....a full DD line is well within reason, as is a partial BB line....just give it time....they need to run out of main lines first

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Well, considering my location - it's rather clear that I'll be overjoyed if I get my hands on a single A-H ship; although to be honest, I find the pan-european tree to be a more sound solution.

 

By the way, allow me to show you two models that sendrov made and shown in one of the game's hungarian forum topics.

SMS Tátra , and while it is unfortunately far from done, maybe it might still be somewhat interesting, the hull of the SMS Budapest (classified as coastal defense "armored ship"). 

Speaking of Budapest, if you ever visit it, you might want to check out the river monitor SMS Leitha / Lajta (built in 1872)

 

Edit: Also, have a Szent István for no particular reason.

Spoiler

szent_i_2.jpg

Do note that as far as I know, the red line on the hull (I know it has a terminus technicus in english, and I can't remember it for the life of me) is not colored historically accurately. It was more of a

 

...pink color.

Don't judge. It's just how they rolled.

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This game is made of a limitless number of individual battles, it is not "won" by reaching tier 10. It's a lot of fun to play tiers 5-7.

 

I would rather have a nation with diverse ships (DD+cruisers+BB) which goes up only to tier 6 or 7, than a nation with only one line which goes up to 10.

Considering that there are already several WW1 ships at tier 6, and some even at tier 7, the AH ships could reach tier 7 without a problem. Both the Tegetthoff and Novara classes were quite advanced for their time, and there are several planned but unfinished ships to stretch the tiers with one or two levels.

 

There are several advantages of including k.u.k. ships into the game.

  • There are many countries which were part of the Empire, so there might be a large playerbase interested in playing those ships
  • Historical importance. Despite Austria-Hungary not having been among the most powerful of the great powers, her fleet did manage to keep the combined French-Italian-British fleets at bay in the Mediterranean.
  • They had many ships types and classes, with several real and planned upgrades. There is both place for premium, and non-premium ships.
  • Interesting gameplay. Instead of adding some new ships which have a gameplay very similar to existing ones, the k.u.k. ships could have unique playing styles, making the game experience more varied.
    • The Tegetthoff class was quite advanced for her time, had good armor, good guns (305mm, but 12 of them in four turrets in no laughing matter even at tiers 5-6), had higher range than equivalent caliber German guns, but the class had one big flaw: due to an imbalanced center of mass it listed heavily in turns, leading to very strict speed limitations in turns. This could be reflected in game as having a ship similar to the German line, with more guns, slightly higher speed, good turn rate, but the most horrible speed loss while turning in the whole game.
    • The battleships were equipped with underwater torpedo launchers, and they could fire directly forwards and backwards (and even to the side). I know that there are several BBs in the game which in real life had torpedoes but don't feature them in the game, but think about the unique gameplay a BB with a single forward facing torpedo could achieve :) It won't be a major damage dealer, but it would still spice up the game
    • The Novara was famous for surviving a battle with heavy damage, while admiral, and later regent, Horthy, was commanding it while heavily wounded, and it escaped by launching smoke. So it could be a low tier light cruiser with quite crappy guns, but equipped with smoke generators.
    • In general, the k.u.k. fleet would feature ships which have great flaws and great strengths at the same time.

Regardless whether as a separate nation, or as a member of a general "other European" nation, the k.u.k. ships deserve an appearance in this game.

(would it be possible to have separate national flags despite being part of a mixed "nation"?) The k.u.k flag is quite distinctive, it should stay visible on the ships.

 

 

 

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On 6/19/2018 at 7:32 PM, Lyno_Lemon said:

Austria-Hungary?

Just want to pose a question to everyone, including Wargaming.

 

How much would people like to see a Austro-Hungarian battleship tech tree?

 

T9 - ?

T10 - ?

 

Thought?

 

I would like to see many nations, who would not be considered major naval power during this time, have ships lines, even if they don't go to T10. 

 

However, WG loves T10 for some reason... I wonder why.:Smile_hiding:

 

18 hours ago, Praevasc said:

This game is made of a limitless number of individual battles, it is not "won" by reaching tier 10. It's a lot of fun to play tiers 5-7.

 

Heresy!  :Smile-angry:

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26 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

However, WG loves T10 for some reason... I wonder why.

Because of players who are failing badly on low tiers, and thinking that by spending money to get to higher tiers faster they will shine there... without realizing that their enemies have also high tier ships, so they keep failing and having to pay to stay afloat... above tier 6 you lose more credits than you win, if you are not making better than average contribution to the battle.

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9 hours ago, Praevasc said:

above tier 6 you lose more credits than you win, if you are not making better than average contribution to the battle.

I disagree with this statement as I have below average and I still make credits 

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i have a crush on A-H pre-dreadnoughts...but i will never see them in this game for sure

 

SMS Monarch

Spoiler

6FZ0ts2.jpg

 

SMS Babenberg

Spoiler

Yc8o4dr.jpg

zLMfZ72.jpg

 

SMS Erzherzog Ferdinand Max

Spoiler

kQepmlJ.jpg

5benQXg.jpg

 

SMS Radetzky

Spoiler

3XQuGNR.jpg

FQz6Ew3.jpg

 

and my all time favorite:

SMS Sankt Georg (armored cruiser) ...look at that beauty

Spoiler

NTo3egy.jpg

jfko6fm.jpg

 

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11 hours ago, Praevasc said:

This game is made of a limitless number of individual battles, it is not "won" by reaching tier 10. It's a lot of fun to play tiers 5-7.

 

I would rather have a nation with diverse ships (DD+cruisers+BB) which goes up only to tier 6 or 7, than a nation with only one line which goes up to 10.

Considering that there are already several WW1 ships at tier 6, and some even at tier 7, the AH ships could reach tier 7 without a problem. Both the Tegetthoff and Novara classes were quite advanced for their time, and there are several planned but unfinished ships to stretch the tiers with one or two levels.

 

There are several advantages of including k.u.k. ships into the game.

  • There are many countries which were part of the Empire, so there might be a large playerbase interested in playing those ships
  • Historical importance. Despite Austria-Hungary not having been among the most powerful of the great powers, her fleet did manage to keep the combined French-Italian-British fleets at bay in the Mediterranean.
  • They had many ships types and classes, with several real and planned upgrades. There is both place for premium, and non-premium ships.
  • Interesting gameplay. Instead of adding some new ships which have a gameplay very similar to existing ones, the k.u.k. ships could have unique playing styles, making the game experience more varied.
    • The Tegetthoff class was quite advanced for her time, had good armor, good guns (305mm, but 12 of them in four turrets in no laughing matter even at tiers 5-6), had higher range than equivalent caliber German guns, but the class had one big flaw: due to an imbalanced center of mass it listed heavily in turns, leading to very strict speed limitations in turns. This could be reflected in game as having a ship similar to the German line, with more guns, slightly higher speed, good turn rate, but the most horrible speed loss while turning in the whole game.
    • The battleships were equipped with underwater torpedo launchers, and they could fire directly forwards and backwards (and even to the side). I know that there are several BBs in the game which in real life had torpedoes but don't feature them in the game, but think about the unique gameplay a BB with a single forward facing torpedo could achieve :) It won't be a major damage dealer, but it would still spice up the game
    • The Novara was famous for surviving a battle with heavy damage, while admiral, and later regent, Horthy, was commanding it while heavily wounded, and it escaped by launching smoke. So it could be a low tier light cruiser with quite crappy guns, but equipped with smoke generators.
    • In general, the k.u.k. fleet would feature ships which have great flaws and great strengths at the same time.

Regardless whether as a separate nation, or as a member of a general "other European" nation, the k.u.k. ships deserve an appearance in this game.

(would it be possible to have separate national flags despite being part of a mixed "nation"?) The k.u.k flag is quite distinctive, it should stay visible on the ships.

 

Not a single A-H ship could be placed above T5 and even that is questionable. Not a single DD could be placed above T2 as they were very small compared with DDs of other countries and only Tatra class could be somehow balanced for T2. Novara and Zenta are good for T4 but they are definitely not T5 material.  Ersatz Zenta could maybe be T5 but considering all other T5 ship I don't think that she would be good at that tier. There is only one built dreadnought class BB and one that is planed but never build. All other BBs are pre-dreadnought and not viable for the game. There is not enough usable ship for the line. A-H will probably get several premium ship or possibly give couple of ships for united PE tree but I doubt it will ever get tree of its own.

 

And please stop with this underwater torpedo proposals. Almost every ship from  that time had them but none of them has them in the game. WG categorically said that they will never be implemented. 

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I would be happy to see at least some as premiums. I am not sure if AH could make an entire line.... specially with no ships in the WW2 era.

 

But some of the ships would fit into the PAN EUROPEAN line ! Its just that .... how to mix allied with axis?

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2 hours ago, nambr9 said:

But some of the ships would fit into the PAN EUROPEAN line ! Its just that .... how to mix allied with axis?

Does this really matter? Every game is a bunch of ships from all sides. Some ships like Roma were active on both sides. PA DDs have ships from China and from Thailand, which were on opposing sides.

14 hours ago, Praevasc said:

Because of players who are failing badly on low tiers, and thinking that by spending money to get to higher tiers faster they will shine there... without realizing that their enemies have also high tier ships, so they keep failing and having to pay to stay afloat... above tier 6 you lose more credits than you win, if you are not making better than average contribution to the battle.

With average play and no pemium account, silver ships stop making earnings at T8/9. If you cannot stay positive at T6 and T7, then you really need to look into getting better.

 

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20 hours ago, Praevasc said:

his game is made of a limitless number of individual battles, it is not "won" by reaching tier 10. It's a lot of fun to play tiers 5-7.

 

I would rather have a nation with diverse ships (DD+cruisers+BB) which goes up only to tier 6 or 7, than a nation with only one line which goes up to 10.

Considering that there are already several WW1 ships at tier 6, and some even at tier 7, the AH ships could reach tier 7 without a problem. Both the Tegetthoff and Novara classes were quite advanced for their time, and there are several planned but unfinished ships to stretch the tiers with one or two levels.

 

There are several advantages of including k.u.k. ships into the game.

  • There are many countries which were part of the Empire, so there might be a large playerbase interested in playing those ships
  • Historical importance. Despite Austria-Hungary not having been among the most powerful of the great powers, her fleet did manage to keep the combined French-Italian-British fleets at bay in the Mediterranean.
  • They had many ships types and classes, with several real and planned upgrades. There is both place for premium, and non-premium ships.
  • Interesting gameplay. Instead of adding some new ships which have a gameplay very similar to existing ones, the k.u.k. ships could have unique playing styles, making the game experience more varied.
    • The Tegetthoff class was quite advanced for her time, had good armor, good guns (305mm, but 12 of them in four turrets in no laughing matter even at tiers 5-6), had higher range than equivalent caliber German guns, but the class had one big flaw: due to an imbalanced center of mass it listed heavily in turns, leading to very strict speed limitations in turns. This could be reflected in game as having a ship similar to the German line, with more guns, slightly higher speed, good turn rate, but the most horrible speed loss while turning in the whole game.
    • The battleships were equipped with underwater torpedo launchers, and they could fire directly forwards and backwards (and even to the side). I know that there are several BBs in the game which in real life had torpedoes but don't feature them in the game, but think about the unique gameplay a BB with a single forward facing torpedo could achieve :) It won't be a major damage dealer, but it would still spice up the game
    • The Novara was famous for surviving a battle with heavy damage, while admiral, and later regent, Horthy, was commanding it while heavily wounded, and it escaped by launching smoke. So it could be a low tier light cruiser with quite crappy guns, but equipped with smoke generators.
    • In general, the k.u.k. fleet would feature ships which have great flaws and great strengths at the same time.

Regardless whether as a separate nation, or as a member of a general "other European" nation, the k.u.k. ships deserve an appearance in this game.

(would it be possible to have separate national flags despite being part of a mixed "nation"?) The k.u.k flag is quite distinctive, it should stay visible on the ships.

Surprised you revived this topic. I completely forgot about it.The problem with a line not going all the way to T10 is that the line would feel unfinished. Personally, I like the grind to T10, but you can keep playing earlier ships anyway. AH's problem is the nation died after ww1 and so wouldn't even have many paper ships. Fictional modernisations make sense to me though since most WW1 era ships are in their ww2 configurations. As others later say underwater torps are not on any ships currently. However, on a side note, HMS Rodney has fame for torping Bismarck so should be given that tube if and when it's added as a premium - my views on that are another topic altogether though.

19 hours ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

I would like to see many nations, who would not be considered major naval power during this time, have ships lines, even if they don't go to T10. 

 

However, WG loves T10 for some reason... I wonder why.:Smile_hiding:

See above statement. I wouldn't have a problem with that though.

9 hours ago, puxflacet said:

i have a crush on A-H pre-dreadnoughts...but i will never see them in this game for sure

Thanks for the pics. They were a major Mediterranean naval power, so deserve some sort of recognition. I feel AH in general always gets unfairly forgotten about (or at least breezed over) in games, movies and schools alike.

8 hours ago, fumtu said:

Not a single A-H ship could be placed above T5 and even that is questionable. Not a single DD could be placed above T2 as they were very small compared with DDs of other countries and only Tatra class could be somehow balanced for T2. Novara and Zenta are good for T4 but they are definitely not T5 material.  Ersatz Zenta could maybe be T5 but considering all other T5 ship I don't think that she would be good at that tier. There is only one built dreadnought class BB and one that is planed but never build. All other BBs are pre-dreadnought and not viable for the game. There is not enough usable ship for the line. A-H will probably get several premium ship or possibly give couple of ships for united PE tree but I doubt it will ever get tree of its own.

 

And please stop with this underwater torpedo proposals. Almost every ship from  that time had them but none of them has them in the game. WG categorically said that they will never be implemented. 

See my above statement on fictional modernisations. That way you could probably argue the case of T5/6.

 

7 hours ago, puxflacet said:

there are actually numerous designs for a battlecruiser as well...

Hold your horses. I will be very annoyed if we get AH paper battlecruisers before the RN real ones - which I have been waiting for for god knows how long now. WG haven't really given the UK the respect it deserves in WOWS thus far.

5 hours ago, Riselotte said:

Does this really matter? Every game is a bunch of ships from all sides. Some ships like Roma were active on both sides. PA DDs have ships from China and from Thailand, which were on opposing sides.

AM I the only one strongly adverse to these fictional Pan-... flags. I want commonwealth flags to either be the British Royal Navy Ensign or individual commonwealth nation naval flags. I dislike the Pan-American and Pan-Asian flags - these should be individual nation naval flags. Pan-European will probably end up with the EU flag. It's not much more work to give ships actual historical flags.

 

There is also the Nazi flag. Now Germany has relaxed it's laws on it's use, they should look at swapping out the Bismarck main special camo and flags for the historical ones. It shouldn't offend anyone and it seems silly not to change that now. Germany has clearly realised censoring everything is stupid.

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