Legendary Modules - A missed oportunity

[Gojuadorai]

Hi,

 

now that we know the mods are final ive had a (final) look at them and must say im dissapointed.

 

why?

 

well the idea of giving ships modules that create 2 different playstyles for T10  is quite appealng since a more diverse meta on T10 would be welcome.

the problem is what the modules ended up  beeing:

 

- large part of them is  just pointless

-  the next best category is some "maybe" useable

- and a few upgrades

 

meaning the only ones that will be mounted by a significant number of players are the "upgrade" ones which doesnt diversify the meta at all.

 

while the idea was good it lacked rigor!

what would have needed to happen would be something that radically changed ship playstyle like (only a rough made up example to get the point across) :

 

Turning a yamato from sinper to a midrange brawler :
- cutting down range  massively 
- increasing Turret rotation big time

- maybe changing ruder  and aceleration a bit

 

such changes might have worked and diversified meta but,
for now those mods seem to be largely nothing more than a waste of dev time.

 

 

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

Why not give hybrid ships like Yueyang or Gearing a module to get really gun-focused and sacrifice torpedo strength for example? 

 

The current modules are missing real flavor. 

[Verblonde]

I don't have any T10 ships yet, but I'm tolerably aware of what at least some of them do (I've been working out which ones to prioritise, given my play style etc.); having read the announcement - skipping the CVs, admittedly - I don't see the point of almost all of these new modules - there seem to be very few where they look like they're worth replacing the 'standard' loadout for.

 

For example, the Shima one improves torpedo reload (yay!), but buggers up traverse speed to do so (and increases the chances of losing your tubes); to me, that looks like you've turned the thing into a somewhat dull torpedo spammer, as being able to fire torps in the middle of a melee is going to be much harder with the upgrade, so discouraging cap contesting - a key job for a sneaky DD, surely?

 

What am I missing?

[dCK_Ad_Hominem]

I probably won't run any of the dd ones. Concealment is too valuable to ever be sacrificed, all come with significant cost and doubtful benefit. The problem is further escalated because their values differs widely from nation to nation and class to class.

[fumtu]

Yueyang module is particularly bad. I doubt anyone will use it. But I'll still try to get it, who knows maybe WG will change it some day to something useful. 

[159Hunter]

I like how they did an iteration on them and 'forgot' the Des Moines one. Very useless one, trying to push the ship into a role it's not suited for...

[loppantorkel]

We'll see. I doubt they will affect gameplay that much. I think they will be used to some degree, diversifying builds and giving players more options. I doubt the community will ever reach any conclusion about which modules are good and which are useless. Some may fall into these categories, but most often it comes down to personal preferences.

[Tyrendian89]

agreed. the way they turned out, the vast majority really dont add anything interesting - they're either unusable or straight up better, almost none of them are an interesting sidegrade...

[Yaskaraxx]

I like the introduction of the Legendary Modules. We can choose whether we use them or not. Just an extra possibility to customize one's ships to his/hers personnal likings. Nice!

[robihr]

5 hours ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

I probably won't run any of the dd ones. Concealment is too valuable to ever be sacrificed, all come with significant cost and doubtful benefit. The problem is further escalated because their values differs widely from nation to nation and class to class.

i think that z52 upgrade has potential in randoms just for pure number of torps it can launch.

[BeauNidl3]

23 minutes ago, robihr said:

i think that z52 upgrade has potential in randoms just for pure number of torps it can launch.

Making it have terrible concealment on a fairly clumsy ship is not a compromise I'm personally willing to take, it's already got usable torpedoes and 6.4 concealment will make it a lousy cap contestant, it will also make the Hydro less useful. 

Quite a few of the ones I've looked at are clearly in the nope category.

[Verblonde]

I get the impression that a lot call for the loss of the concealment module; for the average tuber (me), that'll usually get you killed before you can make use of the shiny extra capabilities...

 

I may be wrong though...?

 

[Negativvv]

"Legendary" upgrades is a laughable name for No Brainer, Meh or Take If Stupid Modules.

 

It's basically the special upgrade modules all over again except they're specific to T10 ships... 

 

Why couldn't WG just balance the ships naturally instead of adding yet more weird modules 

[Ubertron_X]

The first thing WG needed to ask themselves is: What is the legendary upgrade supposed to do? Enhance the current playstyle or allow for a vastly different playstyle?

 

Exempli gratia:

 

Shimakaze enhanced => +torp reload -gun reload

Shimakaze different => -torp reload +gun reload +turret traverse

 

The second question WG needed to ask themselves is: Which is a sensible slot for the new module considering that there are "mandatory" modules for some ships respectively playstyles?

 

Exempli gratia using above modules:

 

Shimakaze with LM in slot 6: Many people will actually consider to use the LM instead of TTM3 or MBM3. Either for even more torpedo soup or to play a surprise IJN gunboat.

Shimakaze with LM in slot 5: Almost no one will ever consider to use any LM module because it replaces CSM1, which is essential for DD gameplay.

 

And in my opinion WG did neither do a good nor consistent job for both questions.

[mrk421]

Honestly, WGs whole track record is full of "missed opportunities". In fact I'm confident you could fill the first few pages of this forum if you made a separate topic for each of them.

 

While on the one hand it's really sad to watch them put so much effort into something which ultimately doesn't amount to much or isn't utilised to its full potential, but it's hardly surprising that it seems to have happened again...

[Negativvv]

21 minutes ago, mrk421 said:

Honestly, WGs whole track record is full of "missed opportunities". In fact I'm confident you could fill the first few pages of this forum if you made a separate topic for each of them.

 

While on the one hand it's really sad to watch them put so much effort into something which ultimately doesn't amount to much or isn't utilised to its full potential, but it's hardly surprising that it seems to have happened again...

 

Don't forget, the CV Rework is coming

 

 

[Johmie]

8 hours ago, Gojuadorai said:

meaning the only ones that will be mounted by a significant number of players are the "upgrade" ones which doesnt diversify the meta at all.

 

Feels like the Minotaur upgrade does the opposite of "diversify the meta". It's already rare for people to use Radar rather than Smoke and this upgrade would strengthen the latter while weakening the former. With the normal concealment module plus Captain skill and Camouflage the Minotaur's radar has a good kilometer more range than the ship's detection radius, so Destroyer ambushing is a thing. With the lower concealment bonus of the legendary upgrade, not so much.  Or to put it another way I normally run Radar, but I wouldn't install a Radar modification on my Minotaur if I got one as that would be wasted if I decided to take smoke. So I don't think I'd take the legendary upgrade as that would be wasted if I took radar and would make my ship worse at using that consumable rather than simply being a wasted slot.

 

Republique upgrade does seem like an upgrade. Losing 24% main gun range is a lot, but still would have almost 20km and that's about as far (or a bit further) than my potato aim can hope to hit things at. So more shells downrange and no real difference in effective range, not much of a debate to me.

 

Conqueror upgrade asks me the question of whether my dodging skills are better than a 5% passive bonus. I don't seem to ever get undetected in the Conqueror so losing the 5% dispersion of incoming shells might be what affects me more than the loss of the concealment bonus. So 40% bonus to rudder shift (and faster turrets) to possibly dodge more incoming fire rather than that missing through RNG, and maybe not burn or flood as long if I swap that module rather than having both 20% and 40% rudder shift. So this is a maybe. 

[Gojuadorai]

12 minutes ago, Johmie said:

 

Feels like the Minotaur [...]

 

the biggest issue i have with that mod is that if i wanna play smoke mino that one ist most likey too good to pass.

but you cant play radar mino with it, basically forcing you to play one or the other all the time, doing nothing for diversity.

 (or spending 25 dubs every time you change)

 

Quote

Republique upgrade does seem like an upgrade. Losing 24% main gun range is a lot, but still would have almost 20km and that's about as far (or a bit further) than my potato aim can hope to hit things at. So more shells downrange and no real difference in effective range, not much of a debate to me.

 

republique is a maybe one  i probably wont use it cause 6% more relaod isnt worth giving up on long range killshots for me. 

also its impact really does change nothing significant  one of both choices will be just better then the other on individual basis but the behavior of the ship in battle will stay the same doing nothing for diversity.

 

[Johmie]

2 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

the biggest issue i have with that mod is that if i wanna play smoke mino that one ist most likey too good to pass.

but you cant play radar mino with it, basically forcing you to play one or the other all the time, doing nothing for diversity.

 (or spending 25 dubs every time you change)

 

That was the point I was making. That with the normal concealment module I can do either but the legendary module would make smoke much better than radar, and that it reinforces the "smoke is normal" meta.

 

4 minutes ago, Gojuadorai said:

republique is a maybe one  i probably wont use it cause 6% more relaod isnt worth giving up on long range killshots for me. 

also its impact really does change nothing significant  one of both choices will be just better then the other on individual basis but the behavior of the ship in battle will stay the same doing nothing for diversity.

 

Fair enough, if you can consistently hit targets that far out then the range is more useful for you.

[Negativvv]

53 minutes ago, Johmie said:

 

Feels like the Minotaur upgrade does the opposite of "diversify the meta". It's already rare for people to use Radar rather than Smoke and this upgrade would strengthen the latter while weakening the former. With the normal concealment module plus Captain skill and Camouflage the Minotaur's radar has a good kilometer more range than the ship's detection radius, so Destroyer ambushing is a thing. With the lower concealment bonus of the legendary upgrade, not so much.  Or to put it another way I normally run Radar, but I wouldn't install a Radar modification on my Minotaur if I got one as that would be wasted if I decided to take smoke. So I don't think I'd take the legendary upgrade as that would be wasted if I took radar and would make my ship worse at using that consumable rather than simply being a wasted slot.

 

 

 

Excuse my cynicism but Mino upgrades are basically WG telling us all to forget about Radar Mino and grind Worcester, like their stupid announcement that it was a "manly Minotaur" or whatever cr@p wasn't obvious enough.

 

 

[zengaze]

I haven't looked at them in any depth but from what i saw a lot of the trade the conceal module.............LOL, for me personally that is the one most important module on any ship i use, it's so intrinsic to my playstyle that it is just never going to happen.

[Gojuadorai]

6 hours ago, Negativvv said:

Excuse my cynicism but Mino upgrades are basically WG telling us all to forget about Radar Mino and grind Worcester, like their stupid announcement that it was a "manly Minotaur" or whatever cr@p wasn't obvious enough.

 

well its off topic  but i need to mention that:

 

Worcester is never going to be a radar mino  simply because it doent got the Rn acceleration.

its the only reason radar mino can work cause it is able to evade ships and doge in open water relatively reliably.

the "fat" american boats cant do that they are way to clumsy, so you need to island hugg , which is a shame, i foretold they (and imho all CLa s a Cl trait) need that acceleration,

or you damn the ships to be island hugging stationary source of onedimensional  gameplay.....

 

[RAHJAILARI]

Well, the 3 tier 10 ships I have are: Yamato, Des Moines and Shima... Lessee how this pans out...

 

1) Yamato, taking the legendary module just means that I would have to camp even harder at 30km and never approach the front line, as it slows down already glacial turret traverse so much that they might as well be welded to the deck thus making it impossible to track and shoot at any target at closer quarters (this is already Yamato's greatest weakness by far).

2) Des Moines... Well it makes the thing more agile sure, but to what purpose? DM already performs well enough (with improved rudder shift) in terms of agility and speed for a CA and will never make a very good destroyer anyway. Would rather keep the extra radar time, thank you.

3) Shima = MEH! Utter rubbish. Makes torp tubes nearly stationary as well as risks having them incapacitated all the time when in close quarters and so forces me to only fight from long range. I prefer close range combat with any DD, because > More assured torp hits = Better result. A tad slower reload in exchange for more hits then, I'd rather have the hits I guess.

 

I'm guessing I will not be mounting any of these then. So much for the "Legendary". Sigh!

 

Perhaps, IF these "Legendary Modules" were made so they actually addressed the most galling weaknesses of each ship instead of making them more pronounced, for example, making Yamato's turrets turn much faster or the like? Might be more useful & popular that way. They could have been used to enable alternative playstyle instead of just re-enforcing the sameold boring sameold.. Just thinking....

[Redcap375]

Only 2 I am remotely giving any thought to is the Haku and Curry upgrades.

 

Rest just doesn't cut it.  Concealment and getting hit less is life to most ships. 

 

WG really missed the boat...Again.  I agree with @Gojuadorai they should have created different play styles. Yam is the best example, turning into ever more of a sniper than it already is??

 

 

 

 

 

[Negativvv]

I've looked through them all in a bit more depth and literally the only two that call out to me are the Grozo one and the Yam one.

 

If Grozo gets the lel Rashan Bias Radar then it'll start to shape up as a decent T10 competitor.

 

The Yam one is just a straight buff as I used the faster reload/slower turret turning in the last slot anyway,  the ship just needs " a lot " of forward planning with the turrets anyway so this upgrade doesn't change much.

 

Everyone else either gives up Concealment Mod or has head scratching sidegrades...