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MrFingers

Why using oil as a gauge to determine how much coal/steel a player should get is quite a poor method & strategy.

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As the cards are currently on the table, it seems that the amount of oil a player has gathered will be taken into account for when determining how much steel/coal a player will receive when "Arsenal" will be implemented in the game in the not too distant future, paired with the player's effort during Clan Wars & Ranked Battles.

 

Should being a participant in Clan-Wars & Ranked being rewarded? Yes, and it already does, with the benefits a well-built base brings and the rewards clan-battles bring in terms of in-game goodies, containers,... The latter is the same for Ranked battles and the final league for those who already ranked out that season. And there is nothing wrong with taking into account ones performances in Clan Wars & Ranked Battles when determining the amount of Coal & Steel. Good performance & perseverance have to be rewarded.

 

While the "personal oil stash" it is a relatively easy and low-effort-required method of gauging the effort & time a player has put in the game, it is also highly skewed. Oil is a clan-exclusive token, that can only be generated if a player is a member of a clan at the moment of distribution. If you are not a clan-member, were only a member for a temporary time or only joined a clan yesterday, all your effort of opening containers in your non-clan days will not be taken into account. In the eyes of WG, you might as well not have played those days, or not even have existed for that matter.

 

Sure, quite a lot of players are currently member of a clan, whether that is an A+ competitive clan, or a very casual "we're just in it for the base-benefits"-clan. But there are also a large percentage of players who are not a member of a clan (anymore), whatever their reasoning behind that might be. Those players are for the moment being left out in the cold, without any valuation for their effort & time spent in the game.

 

In my book, it is wrong to make opting in an optional part of the game borderline mandatory in order to benefit appropriately from a totally non-related other part of the game. Especially if the outline of "what was to come" was not being made clear from the beginning. When clans were introduced, it stated this: "Personal player wallet (won’t be visible currently) – sum of all oil you’ve ever earned for any clan. You will be able to spend it on various things in the future". It does not say that it would be to spend on various things outside of the clan environment.

 

I hereby urge WG to rethink their plan of using the "personal oil stash" as a gauge of how much coal/steel a player should receive when the arsenal is introduced. Sure, it can be that the effort of players is not tracked when not in a clan, but there are other methods available that give an accurate gauging of ones time in the game, whether that is as member of a clan, or as solitary player. XP earned, battles fought, damage done, ships sunk, miles travelled,... All those statistics are tracked and logged on the profile. All those can be used to form a formula that is fair for every player, regardless of their membership (or the duration thereof) of a clan.

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Long but good post.. problem is whatever criteria they pick will piss people off.... But yes they must have recorded how many crates people have since realease of oil... They could reward people for what they earned...

 

 BUT..... I'm pretty sure they said at the launch of oil they told us all to get in to a clan as there would be benefits later for that oil....

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7 minutes ago, MrFingers said:

As the cards are currently on the table, it seems that the amount of oil a player has gathered will be taken into account for when determining how much steel/coal a player will receive when "Arsenal" will be implemented in the game in the not too distant future, paired with the player's effort during Clan Wars & Ranked Battles.

 

Should being a participant in Clan-Wars & Ranked being rewarded? Yes, and it already does, with the benefits a well-built base brings and the rewards clan-battles bring in terms of in-game goodies, containers,... The latter is the same for Ranked battles and the final league for those who already ranked out that season. And there is nothing wrong with taking into account ones performances in Clan Wars & Ranked Battles when taking into account the amount of Coal & Steel. Good performance & perseverance have to be rewarded.

 

While the "personal oil stash" it is a relatively easy and low-effort-required method of gauging the effort & time a player has put in the game, it is also highly skewed. Oil is a clan-exclusive token, that can only be generated if a player is a member of a clan at the moment of distribution. If you are not a clan-member, were only a member for a temporary time or only joined a clan yesterday, all your effort of opening containers in your non-clan days will not be taken into account. In the eyes of WG, you might as well not have played those days, or not even have existed for that matter.

 

Sure, quite a lot of players are currently member of a clan, whether that is an A+ competitive clan, or a very casual "we're just in it for the base-benefits"-clan. But there are also a large percentage of players who are not a member of a clan (anymore), whatever their reasoning behind that might be. Those players are for the moment being left out in the cold, without any valuation for their effort & time spent in the game.

 

In my book, it is wrong to make opting in an optional part of the game borderline mandatory in order to benefit appropriately from a totally non-related other part of the game. Especially if the outline of "what was to come" was not being made clear from the beginning. When clans were introduced, it stated this: "Personal player wallet (won’t be visible currently) – sum of all oil you’ve ever earned for any clan. You will be able to spend it on various things in the future". It does not say that it would be to spend on various things outside of the clan environment.

 

I hereby urge WG to rethink their plan of using the "personal oil stash" as a gauge of how much coal/steel a player should receive when the arsenal is introduced. Sure, it can be that the effort of players is not tracked when not in a clan, but there are other methods available that give an accurate gauging of ones time in the game, whether that is as member of a clan, or as solitary player. XP earned, battles fought, damage done, ships sunk, miles travelled,... All those statistics are tracked and logged on the profile. All those can be used to form a formula that is fair for every player, regardless of their membership (or the duration thereof) of a clan.

I get the "unrelated" part. However, as a general reflection I think it's okay if there are things in game that e.g. only benefits those that are playing in a clan / are participating in ranked etc. It's a choice. I do not think that everything have to be achievable for everybody by necessity. Things like e.g. -10% repair, I don't get that as I have chosen not to be in a clan and it's okay its a choice I make - since it would not fit with work, availability or the fact that  I like playing solo. I could have chosen to become member of a clan that have no requirements or competitive ambitions and have not - and that's okay.

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Just now, T0byJug said:

I'm pretty sure they said at the launch of oil they told us all to get in to a clan as there would be benefits later for that oil

They did, I also addressed that part in my post. But they did not stipulate it would be benefits outside of the clan environment. And that is what's making all this stepping on thin ice. 

 

3 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

problem is whatever criteria they pick will piss people off

Sure, but I'd rather see that everybody gets the shaft equally, instead of just the players who didn't opt-in for a non-related part of the game. The current method is the least fair of the ones they can use.

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Oil is only for coal, not for steel.

 

And no, clans are not mandatory. You could get steel without a clan and you will be able to get coal and steel without a clan.

 

16 minutes ago, MrFingers said:
You will be able to spend it on various things in the future". It does not say that it would be to spend on various things outside of the clan environment.

It does not say oil is exclusive for stuff inside the clan either. Therefore it is for both.

 

They clearly stated from the start:

New Resource: Oil

Oil is a new resource in World of Warships that can only be earned by Clan members.

 

1 minute ago, MrFingers said:

Sure, but I'd rather see that everybody gets the shaft equally, ...

That sounds awful. If you cannot have stuff, other should not have stuff either?

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9 minutes ago, Wildf1re said:

However, as a general reflection I think it's okay if there are things in game that e.g. only benefits those that are playing in a clan / are participating in ranked etc.

I agree, but we are past a point where not participating in those activities harms your effectiveness.

As an active clan player I will receive around 60K+ coal. That will allow me to buy things like special upgrades from the start. Making me even more effective in competitive games AND random battles.

Now, players who ranked out and/or received Stalingrad flags will reap even more benefits. This all puts people who just want to play the game at a huge disadvantage, especially since Stalingrad is one hell of an OP ship

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13 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

That sounds awful. If you cannot have stuff, other should not have stuff either?

I'm not saying that with it. What it means is that it would be better that, IF there has to be a "sacrifice" being made in terms of gauging, that it is spread across the entire playerbase, regardless of status, day joined, whether in a clan or not,... instead of just a random group. Because it is random. It could very well have been that the criterium was "amount of BXP earned", which is also quantifiable (and being measured) for all players alike, new & old, and also gauges ones effort & time in the game.  

 

Think of it as this way. Imagine if WG said: "we're going to use "Day joined" as the gauge". That would mean payday for me, since I've joined this game on August 9th 2012. For you that would be July 2nd 2015, so 3 years later. Maybe I've only played 3 battles, and you 5415. But I still get more, because of that gauging. Also not a fair way of gauging, is it? 

  

As it currently is, WG is on a fast-track of alienating another part of their playerbase: the non-clan players. They can join the PvE-crowd. 

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Seems WG can't decide whether to implement some "elite equipment" received for only single selected activity, or not. 

And I, personally, think that there should be always a few ways of obtaining rare rewards. Some people don't belong to a clan, some clans don't play CB (like mine), some players don't play ranked.

Sure, if WG wants to promote particular activities, the "income" from it can be more attractive - but there always should be another (even a lot harder) way to obtain unique things like Black, Flint, Arkansas Beta etc. 

The only "single path" uniques should be purely visual, like Alabama ST which has almost identical Alabama available for everyone. 

 

Although, I am a bit afraid that in that area "game designing guys" will lose because "marketing guys" will ally with "accounting guys" and everything will finally converge to a wallet. :Smile_bajan2:

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Ahh  , classic WG desperately trying to get people into clans / cIan wars and making those something worth fighting in/for with small bribes thinking that the clan  formula will make people more dedicated (and obviously spending more - the only that matters) .  World of Tanks all over again.  

Haven't they learned why the majority of players don't give 2 shits on their CW/ clans aspect and why they haven't and will never succeed on the esports domain? Tst Tsc Tsc. Someone needs to do his homework.

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24 minutes ago, MrFingers said:

They did, I also addressed that part in my post. But they did not stipulate it would be benefits outside of the clan environment. And that is what's making all this stepping on thin ice.

if they would have put the coal system in clan enviroment(how u know that was not the first plan|)...im sure that u would make threads and whining about y is not usable for anyone and only in clan members...now that they release it for all player base u are becoming greedy as hell instead of being thankful..PATHETIC

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12 minutes ago, MrFingers said:

As it currently is, WG is on a fast-track of alienating another part of their playerbase: the non-clan players. They can join the PvE-crowd. 

Hi. You called? What? An exclusive interview on how does being completely forgotten by wg feel? Sure!

 

Sad.

 

Hope that's satisfying, I'm going back to nothingness, have a good day!

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8 minutes ago, clocky said:

Ahh  , classic WG desperately trying to get people into clans / cIan wars and making those something worth fighting in/for with small bribes.  World of Tanks all over again.  

Haven't they learned why the majority of players don't give 2 shits on their CW/ clans aspect and why they haven't and will never succeed on the esports domain? Tst Tsc Tsc. Someone needs to do his homework.

They don't want to learn. They have put it in their heads to make WoWS a competitive centered game and nothing will change that, even if they destroy the game in the process.

 

Spoiler

2cgd2i.jpg

 

 

PS: The current situation looks like someone trying to shave with a belt sander. It works, but it's painful and inefficient as hell.

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1 minute ago, cpt_sparrow_jack said:

if they would put the coal system in clan enviroment...im sure that u would make threads and whining about y is not usable for anyone and only in clan members...now that they release it for all player base u are becoming greedy as hell instead of being thankful..PATHETIC

No, because then it would be related to "being part of a clan". Just the same as benefiting from base-buildings is. I wouldn't really care if coal became a clan-exclusive that only clan-members can enjoy. But if WG chooses to open up coal for every player, then one should not be using a random factor as "be part of a clan" as a tool to hand out a starting-stash of coal. 

 

On a sidenote, it's "you", not "u".

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1 minute ago, MrFingers said:

No, because then it would be related to "being part of a clan". Just the same as benefiting from base-buildings is. I wouldn't really care if coal became a clan-exclusive that only clan-members can enjoy. But if WG chooses to open up coal for every player, then one should not be using a random factor as "be part of a clan" as a tool to hand out a starting-stash of coal. 

 

On a sidenote, it's "you", not "u".

so u tell me that u would be better to dont have this system benefits if was a clan system than have it.would be ok for u???

put a thermometer because thats sick

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1 minute ago, cpt_sparrow_jack said:

so u tell me that u would be better to dont have this system benefits if was a clan system than have it.would be ok

No, I'm saying that if it were to be a clan-exclusive, I wouldn't feel as cheated as I feel now, since it wouldn't be open to the non-clan players in the first place. Just the same as I don't really mind their discounts and benefits from the base. What gripes me is that WG opens up the coal thing for the entire player-base (that's a good thing), but then uses a random thing like "clan membership" to determine how much headstart a player should get (that's the bad thing, and the reason for this topic). Both can't be combined in a fair manner, so one of the parameters has to chance: either make arsenal a clan-exclusive (not that likely, nor the favourable/desired result), or use a gauge that benefits the entire playerbase, not just those in clans (the desired result). 

 

4 minutes ago, cpt_sparrow_jack said:

put a thermometer because thats sick

36.9°C, feeling very healthy.

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Think the coal amount most will get is peanuts compared to the actual costs in the arsenal. Probably not worth the fuzz about it.

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8 minutes ago, cpt_sparrow_jack said:

it must be mental then

ad hominem nonsense

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On one hand I want as many players as possible to profit from this change.

On the other hand I don't want to see more Flints and Blacks.

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7 minutes ago, hgbn_dk said:

Think the coal amount most will get is peanuts compared to the actual costs in the arsenal. Probably not worth the fuzz about it.

 

The prices have been named in the article:

 

Quote

Items The Arsenal has several item categories:

Exterior:

This section allows you to replenish your stock of camouflages for your ships. The following types will be available in 20-piece sets: Ocean Soul, Revolutionary, Frosty Fir Tree, Back-2-School, Team Water – Clash of the Elements 2017, and Team Fire – Clash of the Elements 2017. The price will vary between 5,200 and 16,000 Coal for a set.

Signals:

Here you can purchase all the base combat and economic signals in 20-piece sets, with prices ranging from 800 to 12,800 Coal for a set.

Ships:

You can purchase the following ships using Coal: Oktyabrskaya Revolutsiya (53,500), Aigle (49,500), Yubari (25,500), Musashi (176,000), Salem (240,000), and Campbeltown (19,500). Steel will get you Flint (11,600) and Black (14,000). Tier X cruiser Stalingrad will join these ships in Update 0.7.8 and will cost 28,000 Steel. If you purchase a ship that you already have in your Port, its price in credits will be transferred to your account. Each ship comes with a 3-point Commander and a Port slot.

Containers: Collection containers Hunt for Bismarck (5,000), Vive la France (12,000), and Dunkirk (5,000) will help you complete the corresponding collections and replenish your stock of special signals and camouflages. They are available in 5-piece sets.

Upgrades: Here you can find all the special Upgrades: Spotting Aircraft Modification 1, Damage Control Party Modification 1, Engine Boost Modification 1, Hydroacoustic Search Modification 1, AA Defensive Fire Modification 1, Surveillance Radar Modification 1, and Smoke Generator Modification 1. Each unit costs 17,000 Coal.

 

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People might be more interested in playing clan wars if the restrictions on time and team membership were relaxed - instead of 4 slots of 3 hours make it the same as team games - everyday for 4 hours and also make it that you can accept mercenaries which will make the medium more viable 

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4 minutes ago, aboomination said:

On one hand I want as many players as possible to profit from this change.

On the other hand I don't want to see more Flints and Blacks.

Don't think you should worry to much since they can only be purchased for steel, not coal

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Another kick in the face for paying non-clan/ranked players. GG

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3 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

 

The prices have been named in the article:

 

 

300-700 coal from container if lucky? If INSANELY lucky 15k? Woah. Considering the prices as well, if you didn't play ranked and had a clan you might jump off a cliff right now. Getting anything just from containers will be a struggle compareable to grinding in coop.

 

I'm just laughing at this point, good thing I spotted WJDE in a coop match, I think I owe him a really nice fish. :Smile_teethhappy:

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16 minutes ago, aboomination said:

On one hand I want as many players as possible to profit from this change.

On the other hand I don't want to see more Flints and Blacks.

i am reading the article now and from what i see there will be less flints and blacks. people who have achieved rank 1 2 or 4 times must play next season to get flint/black, or they will be shafted by the exchange if they dont. btw i estimate that getting to rank 1 will get you 5000 steel in future (flint+black=25600 steel /5 rank seasons=5120 steel).

 

Quote

Secondly, players will receive bonus Steel for a certain number of first ranks they have achieved:

  • One first rank: 2,500 Steel.
  • Two first ranks: 5,000 Steel.
  • Three first ranks: at this stage, players previously received Tier VII ship Flint, that's why there's no bonus for them in this case.
  • Four first ranks: 5,000 Steel. There is no bonus for the previous ranks, because players have already received Flint for them.
  • Five first ranks: at this stage, players previously received Tier IX ship Black, that's why there's no bonus for them in this case.
  • Six first ranks: 2,500 Steel. There is no bonus for the previous ranks, because players have already received Flint and Black for them.
  • Seven first ranks: 5,000 Steel. There's no bonus for ranks 1-5, because players have already received Flint and Black for them.
  • Eight first ranks: 7,500 Steel. There's no bonus for ranks 1-5, because players have already received Flint and Black for them.

Thus, players who achieved the first rank two or four times can exchange Steel for Flint or Black if they achieve the first rank in the next season.

 

btw prices of flint/black

Quote

Steel will get you Flint (11,600) and Black (14,000). Tier X cruiser Stalingrad will join these ships in Update 0.7.8 and will cost 28,000 Steel.

 

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