WG, stop releasing broken ships

[Flavio1997]

 

lets get it straight out of the gate at the start of this post

do I consider the Worcester Op? (what I can see from flamu’s videos, the latest one is  https://youtu.be/OSTZ4XHJE34 )

 

NO

terrible gun arcs+low hp/low armor/big citadel/normal heal will not make this ship a destroyer of worlds, especially if a bbs look at you in a bad way.

 

 

 

However, I consider this ship broken and a ship that, in this state, should not be released in the live server.

let me elaborate that:

 

1)      AA power/AA range ( insert meme about “year of the carrier”)  you are putting another aa monster that just wipes out enemy planes even without defaa, when you activate it the enemy squadrons just vanish. But is not the aa power creep or their range per se ( even though you create a huge bubble of no-fly zone, even worse than it is now with DM and minotaurs) but is their range correlate to  his aa spotting range. It means that, as Flamu said, you can lure the enemy planes near to you, activate the aa and the carrier can’t do anything but look at his planes just vanishing, and that is even more retarded than it is now, that there are ships (batimore, DM) that can shoot enemy planes as soon as spotted. This is just frustrating for the carriers because it means losing planes without even knowing who shoot them ( better not get me started about the shooting-with- your-aa-in-smoke-stuff)

 

2)      surface spotting/radar. It is already bad the fact that there are ships that have a concealment on par with their radar range (dm, old balty, Cleveland and so on). Because it means that a poor dd that has the misfortune of spotting one of this ship will get radared and probably nuked without having time to run away. Now you are turning that to eleven by getting a ship that has 400 meters MORE range on his radar than his concealment….are you going full [edited]? Especially considering that with the module we are looking at a 56 ( or 48 post nerf) radar against a ships that lobs 240 rounds/min. Again, is frustrating as a dd player especially on those absurd situations ( rare I know, but still) where the enemy dd will get spotted WITHOUT EVEN seeing who is radaring them.

 

I hoped, looking at the buffalo, that you were headed in the right direction: 7.8 aa spotting range vs 7.2aa range and 10.5 concealments against 9.5 radar, so you give  the dd a 1 km “oh crap zone” to retreat  or at least turn to get away….

….then you decided to go full retard and release a ship that will be very frustrating to play against in 2 out of 4 classes ( and even bbs with all this he spam might not be happy, but imho that is a minor thing, and a bit they deserve to burn down).

 

 

How would I correct this stuff?

 

1)nerf the aa range or the air concealment to be at least on par, but imho even here there should be a 0.5 kms difference, like in the buffalo

2) nerf the radar to 9.5 kms range ( like a tier 9) or even at 9 kms, to give some brown pants range to a dd ( and trust me, a dd spotting this ship will need them). I wouldn’t nerf the base concealment because it will make it  too weak agains CA and bbs

 

any thought?

 

 

 

[hgbn_dk]

Are you basing your opinion on a  you tube vid or have you played the ship yourself???

[wilkatis_LV]

12 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

any thought?

it's not even released yet

 

Broken? Far from it. Very annoying at best. Amazingly useless at worst. Same as Lolanta or radar Mino

 

AA - everything AA related will be reworked with CV rework soon^TM. It's a cruiser (class which is supposed to have good AA) in a nation which has the trait of having the best AA of all nations. What did you expect? Also I'm pretty sure Wooster was built with the intention of being AA platform that can shoot at targets on the surface aswell, not the other way around.

 

And for you slow people who have no idea how time works - "year of the carrier" ended about 6 months ago when 2018 started.

 

Cleveland is spotted 130m before you are in her radar range. Pretty sure old Baltimore was spotted before her radar aswell. As soon as they are spotted you can react to it. You have time before they realize you have spotted them and activate their radar, then get their guns on you, use it to get on an escape route or cover between you and them. Putting "and so on" after 2 failed points doesn't work, you should have provided at least 1 actually working situation. Like Mino

 

As for "no chance to get away" - git gud is all I can say. At 9km US CLs need 5.5s for their shells to arrive to you (at 10km it's already 6.3s), pretty sure most if not all DDs rudder shift tends to be below that. Use your keyboard

 

You're whining about 400m when the ship can not even reliably hit you at that range. I have a feeling you have no idea that Minos radar outranges his spotting distance by 1.15km. Now that's worth being worried about, not Wooser.

 

240 rounds/min which move at the average walking pace of an elderly person. Use your keyboard, and he will have some serious problems to get any shells on you

 

 

[wilkatis_LV]

2 minutes ago, hgbn_dk said:

Are you basing your opinion on a  you tube vid or have you played the ship yourself???

He's basing that on his God and Savior Flamu, of course

[ColonelPete]

I suggest to play her first.

Look at all the players who complain about Cleveland. Worcester will be even harder to play.

[HaachamaShipping]

3 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Cleveland is spotted 130m before you are in her radar range. Pretty sure old Baltimore was spotted before her radar aswell. As soon as they are spotted you can react to it. You have time before they realize you have spotted them and activate their radar, then get their guns on you, use it to get on an escape route or cover between you and them. Putting "and so on" after 2 failed points doesn't work, you should have provided at least 1 actually working situation. Like Mino

I guess it's currently only Mino, PA DDs and Black? Maybe Neptune and Edin?

[Allied_Winter]

19 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

I guess it's currently only Mino, PA DDs and Black? Maybe Neptune and Edin?

 

Chappa can also 'stealth radar'

[Flavio1997]

16 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

it's not even released yet

 

Broken? Far from it. Very annoying at best. Amazingly useless at worst. Same as Lolanta or radar Mino

 

AA - everything AA related will be reworked with CV rework soon^TM. It's a cruiser (class which is supposed to have good AA) in a nation which has the trait of having the best AA of all nations. What did you expect? Also I'm pretty sure Wooster was built with the intention of being AA platform that can shoot at targets on the surface aswell, not the other way around.

3

 

 

It's stilll a retarded mechanic , there is no way around it,  it can be god of anti air in person, is still retarded. period. and having a ship that infatuates on this even more is just plain bad

 

16 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

Cleveland is spotted 130m before you are in her radar range. Pretty sure old Baltimore was spotted before her radar aswell. As soon as they are spotted you can react to it. You have time before they realize you have spotted them and activate their radar, then get their guns on you, use it to get on an escape route or cover between you and them. Putting "and so on" after 2 failed points doesn't work, you should have provided at least 1 actually working situation. Like Mino

1

yep, because 130 meters is enough to get your ship to turn around...get real man... 130 meters ( in this game, distance are compressed of a factor of 3-4 times) is the time you need to realize that the balti/cleveland is there. And the only yhing he has to do is press a button when he is spotted, reaction time of average uman? 1 secs, so no, you have no real time to react

16 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

As for "no chance to get away" - git gud is all I can say. At 9km US CLs need 5.5s for their shells to arrive to you (at 10km it's already 6.3s), pretty sure most if not all DDs rudder shift tends to be below that. Use your keyboard

 

You're whining about 400m when the ship can not even reliably hit you at that range. I have a feeling you have no idea that Minos radar outranges his spotting distance by 1.15km. Now that's worth being worried about, not Wooser.

 

240 rounds/min which move at the average walking pace of an elderly person. Use your keyboard, and he will have some serious problems to get any shells on you

 

 

and at this you might get a point, but even then,

1)with the amount of  shell this ship can pump it will still get many hit

2) the dds are also the ship with most drag and that tend to drift more, so even when you manouver your drift will actually cause to get against the shells

3) mino has ap shells only, if you angle straight away from him, you are safe, with wooster , he starts unloading he, and it will do a crapton of damage and braking modules

4) you can manoeuvre whatever you want, if the enemy players has even half brain it will still lead you

23 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

He's basing that on his God and Savior Flamu, of course

come on guys, I can recognize the power of a ship even if i don't play it, let it be payfast, saipan ,  enterprise( straight op) to situational ships ( atlanta, flint---) and so on

 

[Flavio1997]

and all of you still don't get the point of the discussion, i'm not saiing the ship is  op, i'm saying that this is a ship that will be frustrating to be against because it has no real counterplay for 2 out of 4 classes of the game and very weak against the other 2 ( against dds it has even hidro). And wg should avoid putting this ship as it is right now

[wilkatis_LV]

37 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

yep, because 130 meters is enough to get your ship to turn around...

it's enough for you to start doing something. Already said that unless you're moving in something as predictable straight line he won't hit you, those shells fly far too long

 

38 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

( in this game, distance are compressed of a factor of 3-4 times)

No it's not. All distances are correct. Ships are scaled by about 2.5, same with movement speed. Not distance

 

39 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

reaction time of average uman?

No idea what's the reaction time of a city, but for a human - going from "I'm spotted" to "activate radar" to "there he is" to "traverse my guns, fire" and then for those shells arrive - easily can go over 10...15s

 

41 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

2) the dds are also the ship with most drag and that tend to drift more, so even when you manouver your drift will actually cause to get against the shells

High & quick changes in speed (losing it while turning, then gaining it in a straight line) throws off the aim. Sliding sideways instead of going straight throws off aiming. Both are things that works in DDs favor not against it

 

42 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

3) mino has ap shells only, if you angle straight away from him, you are safe, with wooster , he starts unloading he, and it will do a crapton of damage and braking modules

The only way you can angle against that Mino is bow on. You prefer to get closer to it? Or you think you'll get away by reversing? Not going to work. You have to turn away, and you'll get wrecked in that turn

 

Lets say Mino & Wooster radar you at the point where you spot them, and fire instantly as they had their guns perfectly turned for it, and for some reason they weren't affected by the rendering delay. Pretty much completely imaginary situation, but closest to what you are talking about. At 8.8km Mino needs 5.5s, at 9.6km Wooster needs 6s. So Mino stands a better chance to hit you than a Wooster. And that AP will still break all your modules

 

47 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

4) you can manoeuvre whatever you want, if the enemy players has even half brain it will still lead you

He has to guess where you will be after 5....6 or even more seconds. You can do a turn, straighten out, and then start turning the other way in that turn. If you are still getting hit - it means they are predicting you better than you are trying to throw them off

 

 

[Arakus]

Interesting, there are threads in the forum which stated the new ships are OP, now yoiu come along and say they are totally diffenent!

Whe some say OP, ans some say underpowered it can be that WG balaced them totally right!

[Sargento_YO]

The huge amount of aa it's the main reason of why I don't play high tier carrier battles. And then WG wonders why there are so few CV players. With Worchester it will be even worse (that thing has an aa of 3500 damage per second!!)

[Sana_Khan]

4 hours ago, Flavio1997 said:

 

lets get it straight out of the gate at the start of this post

do I consider the Worcester Op? (what I can see from flamu’s videos, the latest one is  https://youtu.be/OSTZ4XHJE34 )

 

NO

terrible gun arcs+low hp/low armor/big citadel/normal heal will not make this ship a destroyer of worlds, especially if a bbs look at you in a bad way.

 

 

 

 

[Ferry_25]

Parallel on topic: am I the only one not even bothering to actually try out this new line split? I freaking hate this line splits! Regarding the US cruiser line the real fun I had with those ended after St Louis.... That ship was so much fun for me. Playing it in a BB style-ish. After that I had to adjust to a DD style-ish. Cleveland 6 was a learn to love ship for me. But after that it was 1 big misery for me: making an appointment for next week for when and where the shells would re-enter, the extra-ship citadels and the lacking of torpedo teeth when needed? And now there are more? Thanks but no thanks.

From what I've seen on topic of the W: it's another highly situational ship

tl;dr: what's the fun in the higher US cruiserlines?

[Hannibalurg]

Well how the ship it self preform is irrellevant. 

 

On the otherhand, it has Defensive Fire, hydroacoustic, radar and ofcourse a heal. 

 

It only lacks smoke. WG, can we please get smoke?

[Hannibalurg]

1 minute ago, Ferry_25 said:

Parallel on topic: am I the only one not even bothering to actually try out this new line split? I freaking hate this line splits! Regarding the US cruiser line the real fun I had with those ended after St Louis.... That ship was so much fun for me. Playing it in a BB style-ish. After that I had to adjust to a DD style-ish. Cleveland 6 was a learn to love ship for me. But after that it was 1 big misery for me: making an appointment for next week for when and where the shells would re-enter, the extra-ship citadels and the lacking of torpedo teeth when needed? And now there are more? Thanks but no thanks.

tl;dr: what's the fun in the higher US cruiserlines?

 

Sitting behind Islands farming HE damage, get much EXP and Credits. 

[RUSSIANBlAS]

Brocken ship 

 

It basically looks like a T10 Atlanta. Highly specialised with loads of utility and lol 1 shot doom hanging over it all the time.

 

I'll probably still take my Des Moines unless WG gift me one and don't force me to grind from T6.

[FishDogFoodShack]

10 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

He's basing that on his God and Savior Flamu, of course

 

P sure Flamu actually said he feels the ship is well balanced in his last video about it iirc. COuld be wrong though.

[zengaze]

I happen to think that WG's US cruiser rework/new lines has been one of the best rollouts that they've pulled off. And we aren't even done with it yet! The heavy cruiser lines is now sitting basically where it always should have been in terms of tiers, and is a great role specific line. I'm only keeping the DM and Balti from that line though. From what i've seen with the lights i'll be keeping 6 8 and 10, perhaps even seven for ops. What's good about the light line? it's not muti purpose, sure you have a swiss army knife of tricks, but if you [edited]up, you will get fucked up. In other words high skill ceiling for a specific type of play, that's why those who hate it and those who love it will be in equal numbers, that's usually an indicator you're doing ships right, and those who can squeeze every last drop of potential from the boat will drink liters of "OP SHIP!" tears. We don't want every line in the game to be mirrored by other nations.

 

I do think the swiss army knife of consumables may be a bit much though. I get they want to do something diserent with the line, but i still think forcing a choice between hydro and AA is a good balance tool

 

 

[Flavio1997]

11 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

No it's not. All distances are correct. Ships are scaled by about 2.5, same with movement speed. Not distance

1

nope, and you did sealed your fate yourself: wooster shell velocity:  770 m/s, time to fly at 10 kms 6.3...maths doesn't add up

11 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

No idea what's the reaction time of a city, but for a human - going from "I'm spotted" to "activate radar" to "there he is" to "traverse my guns, fire" and then for those shells arrive - easily can go over 10...15s

 

this is if you are selfish and you already know where the enemy dd is coming from,. because if you don't, you fire it up immediatly, so i you  take him by surprise meanwhile he is starting the turn away, and some of your  allied might have a clear shot on him

2 hours ago, zengaze said:

I happen to think that WG's US cruiser rework/new lines has been one of the best rollouts that they've pulled off. And we aren't even done with it yet! The heavy cruiser lines is now sitting basically where it always should have been in terms of tiers, and is a great role specific line. I'm only keeping the DM and Balti from that line though. From what i've seen with the lights i'll be keeping 6 8 and 10, perhaps even seven for ops. What's good about the light line? it's not muti purpose, sure you have a swiss army knife of tricks, but if you [edited]up, you will get fucked up. In other words high skill ceiling for a specific type of play, that's why those who hate it and those who love it will be in equal numbers, that's usually an indicator you're doing ships right, and those who can squeeze every last drop of potential from the boat will drink liters of "OP SHIP!" tears. We don't want every line in the game to be mirrored by other nations.

 

I do think the swiss army knife of consumables may be a bit much though. I get they want to do something diserent with the line, but i still think forcing a choice between hydro and AA is a good balance tool

 

 

again, i'm not saying that the ship is op, is just broken and frustrating to play against for 2 classe because it hasn't got any counterplay for them

[Sub_Human]

15 hours ago, Flavio1997 said:

 

lets get it straight out of the gate at the start of this post

do I consider the Worcester Op? (what I can see from flamu’s videos, the latest one is  https://youtu.be/OSTZ4XHJE34 )

 

NO

terrible gun arcs+low hp/low armor/big citadel/normal heal will not make this ship a destroyer of worlds, especially if a bbs look at you in a bad way.

 

 

 

However, I consider this ship broken and a ship that, in this state, should not be released in the live server.

let me elaborate that:

 

1)      AA power/AA range ( insert meme about “year of the carrier”)  you are putting another aa monster that just wipes out enemy planes even without defaa, when you activate it the enemy squadrons just vanish. But is not the aa power creep or their range per se ( even though you create a huge bubble of no-fly zone, even worse than it is now with DM and minotaurs) but is their range correlate to  his aa spotting range. It means that, as Flamu said, you can lure the enemy planes near to you, activate the aa and the carrier can’t do anything but look at his planes just vanishing, and that is even more retarded than it is now, that there are ships (batimore, DM) that can shoot enemy planes as soon as spotted. This is just frustrating for the carriers because it means losing planes without even knowing who shoot them ( better not get me started about the shooting-with- your-aa-in-smoke-stuff)

 

2)      surface spotting/radar. It is already bad the fact that there are ships that have a concealment on par with their radar range (dm, old balty, Cleveland and so on). Because it means that a poor dd that has the misfortune of spotting one of this ship will get radared and probably nuked without having time to run away. Now you are turning that to eleven by getting a ship that has 400 meters MORE range on his radar than his concealment….are you going full [edited]? Especially considering that with the module we are looking at a 56 ( or 48 post nerf) radar against a ships that lobs 240 rounds/min. Again, is frustrating as a dd player especially on those absurd situations ( rare I know, but still) where the enemy dd will get spotted WITHOUT EVEN seeing who is radaring them.

 

I hoped, looking at the buffalo, that you were headed in the right direction: 7.8 aa spotting range vs 7.2aa range and 10.5 concealments against 9.5 radar, so you give  the dd a 1 km “oh crap zone” to retreat  or at least turn to get away….

….then you decided to go full retard and release a ship that will be very frustrating to play against in 2 out of 4 classes ( and even bbs with all this he spam might not be happy, but imho that is a minor thing, and a bit they deserve to burn down).

 

 

How would I correct this stuff?

 

1)nerf the aa range or the air concealment to be at least on par, but imho even here there should be a 0.5 kms difference, like in the buffalo

2) nerf the radar to 9.5 kms range ( like a tier 9) or even at 9 kms, to give some brown pants range to a dd ( and trust me, a dd spotting this ship will need them). I wouldn’t nerf the base concealment because it will make it  too weak agains CA and bbs

 

any thought?

 

 

 

Im not sure that it will be broken in the hands of mr average Joe potatoe, that plays solo. But I have run into it 3 times in try hard divisions. Cv+W+ Gearing/Grozovoi/Minotaur. And in such a division its horrible. As a DD there is no point in trying to go near their cap. And its a total no fly done. If your BBs push then it can work but we all know that BBs like to do something else.

[ColonelPete]

I wonder how I managed to cap vs up to 5 radars during the weekend if that is supposed to be pointless...

[ShinGetsu]

I would say Worcester seems to have impressive potential in the hands of a skilled player. It suffers from the lack of burst, so rushing it with torps will put it into a very precarious position. The AP seems quite bad too. But apart from that, it got a 30mm deck, it got fast reload 152 and a lot of utility consumable. It's squishy, but far from being as squishy at Atlanta and Minotaur.

Basically, well positioned and as long as it has a team behind it to prevent a rush, it can just says "nope" to the enemy team in one third of the map. Just like Atlanta.

 

So it requires perfect positioning to work. That seems fine.

[robihr]

i find 152mm guns t8+ rather questionable cause you must spec IFHE as a must skill if you plan to do any damage.

[NothingButTheRain]

Frankly there has been so many carriers in the game lately, even in high tiers. In middle tiers even often 2 carriers each team (like a tier 6 and a tier 7), it made grinding Gneisenau soooo much fun! AP bombs)

 

And the lower tiers have been infested with carriers for months now, often seeing 2 carriers each team. It makes playing ships with little AA (which is basically anything that's not a Brit BB or maybe Texas at tiers 5 and 4) a lot more frustrating 

 

I do like carrier gameplay and I like using them in operations (and maybe coop), but for the rest of the team it doesn't really add anything positive to it, except maybe not having to depend on spotting done by your DDs so much.

 

Lets hope the CV rework will make it more fun for all of us 

 

And concerning Wooster, to me it doesn't seem broken by itself. I do think that radar gameplay right now (and especially the total amount of radar in the game right now) makes it a bit too hard for destroyers to do their jobs properly (mainly the capping one and especially in the beginning).

Removing islands from within caps seems to be to their detriment, at least DDs will have cover when inside the cap.

 

Perhaps all radar durations should be lowered a bit? I don't really know, I barely play DD anymore but that's due to unrelated reasons.

 

I do hope they don't release stupidly OP ships anymore, maybe even do something about some of the old stupidly OP ships that are still in the game somewhere.