Destroyer smokescreen

[QuantumBomber]

Before i start this is not a rage post. I'm just after playing a battle in my Kongo and i got killed by destroyer in a smokescreen. Now i know you should never fight a destroyer in a BB full stop but i was forced into this situation. I was running from a Full health enemy Kongo and i had just killed a ST. Louis, I saw the DD approaching head on with me 8km out and i began to realize my situation. I had a choice of turn left to get behind an island to stop the Kongo from hitting me and cap B and hopefully kill the DD but that would put me at a broadside with the DD or i could continue straight but go into the SC the DD was deploying.. I turned left and fired my front guns at the DD taking off half his health. I also slowed my ship to dodge his first torps which was successful. He then disappeared from view at 5km range. I continued my turn and tried to spot him. Then all of a sudden from a range of 2km he got spotted but he was just firing his torps and guns. These torps were fired too close so i was unable to dodge them. I could not bring my guns to bear and was then killed by the torps. 

I feel that within 3km i should be able to see a DD. It seems kinda unfair that a BB cant do anything to them unless the DD makes a huge mistake.  And before you tell me im a idiot and go lay DDS i have played all class of ships in the game up to at least tier 5. Im also aware this is beta and this is subject to change, 

[BossTroll]

Seems to me that you got caught between a rock and a hard place. These things happen in games. The situation forced you to fight an enemy on his terms instead of yours, and predictably you lost.

 

Fighting a DD in a smokescreen is going to be bad for a BB. The smokescreen is there just so the DD doesn't always get insta gibbed when fighting someone up close and personal. The spotting range in the smokescreen has already been lengthened, it used to be really short.

(Funny side story: Back in alpha, I was playing in my Fubuki. I followed a teammate into his smokescreen. At the same time, unbeknownst to us, an enemy Yamato sailed into the same smokescreen from the other side. We spotted each other at about 150m. We both fired a broadside, his guns and my torps. His shot went over my head, and my torps dove underneath him due to being within minimum arming range.)

[QuantumBomber]

Seems to me that you got caught between a rock and a hard place. These things happen in games. The situation forced you to fight an enemy on his terms instead of yours, and predictably you lost.

 

Fighting a DD in a smokescreen is going to be bad for a BB. The smokescreen is there just so the DD doesn't always get insta gibbed when fighting someone up close and personal. The spotting range in the smokescreen has already been lengthened, it used to be really short.

(Funny side story: Back in alpha, I was playing in my Fubuki. I followed a teammate into his smokescreen. At the same time, unbeknownst to us, an enemy Yamato sailed into the same smokescreen from the other side. We spotted each other at about 150m. We both fired a broadside, his guns and my torps. His shot went over my head, and my torps dove underneath him due to being within minimum arming range.)

 

Yeah i agree that sometimes it just GG and there nothing you can do :p. I as a destroyer player know that smokescreen is vital but a ship dispersing at under 3 or 2km seems "OP". A cruiser or a BB cant do anything. There is no counter play

[sleeplessone]

Although I cannot comment much as i am not part of the CBT, that DD was a good player by the sounds of it and used his Smoke correctly.   I have played Navyfield2 so i know about being in a DD , CA and BB.  DD / CA (anything with torps) is good at getting in and deploying and running away and I like how WG have added smoke.  From NF2  torps down channels near islands means you have almost no room to dodge in so take hits or be grounded.  Grounding means you end up coming to a halt and blasted with a salvo or gun fire and even more of a target for torps.

 

As for the OP , just as BossTroll said he was  between a rock and hard place. There is never a correct or bad decision just a mistake though it is hard to say if going straight would have been better.

 

Smoke is for 

1. Hiding, either the single DD that deployed the smoke or a group of ships that could include CA, BB, ,or CV etc
2. main use is to make it harder to be hit by say a BB within a 2-5 km range
3. As such a short range a Torp spread is hard to avoid in a BB

 

Simply Put a BB needs to keep enemy ships that fire torps at long range , around 5km.

 

This will give you time to turn into or turn away from the torps.

 

thats enough from me

[sleeplessone]

 

Yeah i agree that sometimes it just GG and there nothing you can do :p. I as a destroyer player know that smokescreen is vital but a ship dispersing at under 3 or 2km seems "OP". A cruiser or a BB cant do anything. There is no counter play

 

Counter play is not to be a CA or BB that is alone without support unless you're the last one alive.

[QuantumBomber]

Although I cannot comment much as i am not part of the CBT, that DD was a good player by the sounds of it and used his Smoke correctly.   I have played Navyfield2 so i know about being in a DD , CA and BB.  DD / CA (anything with torps) is good at getting in and deploying and running away and I like how WG have added smoke.  From NF2  torps down channels near islands means you have almost no room to dodge in so take hits or be grounded.  Grounding means you end up coming to a halt and blasted with a salvo or gun fire and even more of a target for torps.

 

As for the OP , just as BossTroll said he was  between a rock and hard place. There is never a correct or bad decision just a mistake though it is hard to say if going straight would have been better.

 

Smoke is for 

1. Hiding, either the single DD that deployed the smoke or a group of ships that could include CA, BB, ,or CV etc
2. main use is to make it harder to be hit by say a BB within a 2-5 km range
3. As such a short range a Torp spread is hard to avoid in a BB

 

Simply Put a BB needs to keep enemy ships that fire torps at long range , around 5km.

 

This will give you time to turn into or turn away from the torps.

 

thats enough from me

Yeah i understand this was a tough situation for me and even had it been a CA or CL i might have been dead. But i just think at a 3km range or less which in Wows in very close you should be able to see through some of the smokescreen. Maybe when you enter it you can only see 2km ahead. Also a DD within 8km is a massive threat. You need to keep them at around 10km to be safe especially the japs DDs

[Orlunu]

It seems kinda unfair that a BB cant do anything to them unless the DD makes a huge mistake.  And before you tell me im a idiot and go lay DDS i have played all class of ships in the game up to at least tier 5. Im also aware this is beta and this is subject to change, 

As a destroyer player, I agree that smoke screens are broken.  I refuse to use them aggressively, but that doesn't stop other people, and an invisibility cloak on an attacking destroyer is GG BB.  To be fair, the BB can win sometimes randomly, as I've seen secondary armament volleys one-shot DDs, but that doesn't stop smoke being stupid.

 

The main problem is how smoke deploys.  It does it in puffs around the ship, where it really should stream out behind it; that's how it really worked, and it'd make it almost as good defensively whilst robbing it of its offensive power.

 

An attack should depend highly on skill, then the smokescreen should get you back out of the enemy lines.  A smokescreen should not allow you to invade the enemy lines with impunity.

[H_E_R_T_Z]

Dude..you were alone against 2-3 enemies from what you tell us...Where was your bloody support? Off course you died...

 

Ohh..and a sidenote...you can "safely" give your broadisde (the one with the guns trained on it ) to a DD at 5-6+ kliks...that may ensure a one salvo kill...at 2-3 kliks...Well good luck with that...

[azakow]

As a destroyer player, I agree that smoke screens are broken.  I refuse to use them aggressively, but that doesn't stop other people, and an invisibility cloak on an attacking destroyer is GG BB.  To be fair, the BB can win sometimes randomly, as I've seen secondary armament volleys one-shot DDs, but that doesn't stop smoke being stupid.

 

The main problem is how smoke deploys.  It does it in puffs around the ship, where it really should stream out behind it; that's how it really worked, and it'd make it almost as good defensively whilst robbing it of its offensive power.

 

An attack should depend highly on skill, then the smokescreen should get you back out of the enemy lines.  A smokescreen should not allow you to invade the enemy lines with impunity.

What exactly is broken?

 

Smoke screen and offensive power?!

Sure there is an offensive element in laying an smoke screen. This power is triggered by the opponents minds mostly, at best.

 

I do not see any offensive power while my DD is laying a smoke screen.

This is because of the described behavior puffing out left and rigth of the ship.

The front will never be covered, hence you get spotted on your "offensive" run.

[sleeplessone]

Yeah i understand this was a tough situation for me and even had it been a CA or CL i might have been dead. But i just think at a 3km range or less which in Wows in very close you should be able to see through some of the smokescreen. Maybe when you enter it you can only see 2km ahead. Also a DD within 8km is a massive threat. You need to keep them at around 10km to be safe especially the japs DDs

 

It is why i feel that ships should have limited supply of torps. (granted I have not played CBT )   

 

I imagine the following.

1. DD has say a max of 5 salvos ...
2. He fires 3 down channels .... 
3. Then he has 2 and has to sue them sparingly 
4. Either he tries the tactic he used on you Quantum , An allied ship would have helped take some torp damage (spreading it over  more than just your ship)
5. waists them on a carrier , then is stuck with just guns versus your ship.
6. having unlimited torps a ship like a DD with smoke can just rinse and repeat the tactic that was used on quantum (you could end up with an end game as described below)

 

For me the end game where a DD vs BB  are left , with lots of islands .  DD gets close uses smoke  fires torps , gets hits , then runs hides behind island and waits until smoke recharages and repeats

The only option for a BB is to get to open water but not too close to edge of map. 

 

Limiting ship torps would help with this.  

[QuantumBomber]

Dude..you were alone against 2-3 enemies from what you tell us...Where was your bloody support? Off course you died...

 

Ohh..and a sidenote...you can "safely" give your broadisde (the one with the guns trained on it ) to a DD at 5-6+ kliks...that may ensure a one salvo kill...at 2-3 kliks...Well good luck with that...

 

Trust me i did not like my position but all my team was dead bar 2 carriers. I turned left to bring my guns to bear on the DD but he vanished in the SC and i did not want to blind fire as he was mid turn when he vanished. 

[QuantumBomber]

 

Counter play is not to be a CA or BB that is alone without support unless you're the last one alive.

 

I had only 2 carriers and needed to cap B 

[H_E_R_T_Z]

 

I had only 2 carriers and needed to cap B 

 

Mate..however you look at it...the smokescreen was the least of your issues I'm not saying is working as intended, but nothing is quite "100 % realistic" in the game, or we will be very bored . Nonetheless the smoke is 1 tool that the DD have at their disposal..they have no enhanced AA, or extra life...

[QuantumBomber]

 

Mate..however you look at it...the smokescreen was the least of your issues I'm not saying is working as intended, but nothing is quite "100 % realistic" in the game, or we will be very bored . Nonetheless the smoke is 1 tool that the DD have at their disposal..they have no enhanced AA, or extra life...

 

True i was more than likely dead but i dont think a ship vanishing at a range of 3km or less has any counter play or well require much skill. So maybe when they fire the torps at a range of 3km or less they should get spotted or something. I agree that they need the smoke though. 

[H_E_R_T_Z]

 

True i was more than likely dead but i dont think a ship vanishing at a range of 3km or less has any counter play or well require much skill. So maybe when they fire the torps at a range of 3km or less they should get spotted or something. I agree that they need the smoke though. 

 

Check the battle of Samar though..you will see what some Fletchers did there using smoke screen (there were also rain squalls). As it is now..when we put the smoke screen we are visible, only when we turn in it we become invisible...we also have to disable AA fire, not shoot, etc....And if I'm not wrong..when you fire torpedoes you become more visible (maybe not like firing guns), because many times after firing my torps my enemy just starts evasive maneuvers. That maybe is just my imagination though...

 

And believe me, DD's require alot of skill...atleast at higher tiers when enemies are not sitting ducks...

[Grimdorf]

 

Yeah i agree that sometimes it just GG and there nothing you can do :p. I as a destroyer player know that smokescreen is vital but a ship dispersing at under 3 or 2km seems "OP". A cruiser or a BB cant do anything. There is no counter play

 

A DD that can manage to get in close enough to you to launch torps you can not avoid deserves every torp hit he gets imo.

Its not like its an easy thing to do every game is it.

 

 

[Orlunu]

What exactly is broken?

 

Smoke screen and offensive power?!

Sure there is an offensive element in laying an smoke screen. This power is triggered by the opponents minds mostly, at best.

 

I do not see any offensive power while my DD is laying a smoke screen.

This is because of the described behavior puffing out left and rigth of the ship.

The front will never be covered, hence you get spotted on your "offensive" run.

 

Dude, literally just tack back and forth.  You only need to offset by about 15 degrees to be magically invisible.  You'll flash up for a moment every ten seconds.  Big whoop.

 

Also, you launch torps over the side.  That's by far the most vulnerable point of an attack run, except you can choose to be invisible throughout.

[QuantumBomber]

 

Check the battle of Samar though..you will see what some Fletchers did there using smoke screen (there were also rain squalls). As it is now..when we put the smoke screen we are visible, only when we turn in it we become invisible...we also have to disable AA fire, not shoot, etc....And if I'm not wrong..when you fire torpedoes you become more visible (maybe not like firing guns), because many times after firing my torps my enemy just starts evasive maneuvers. That maybe is just my imagination though...

 

And believe me, DD's require alot of skill...atleast at higher tiers when enemies are not sitting ducks...

 

I play DDS and i know its hard. And when i see a DD nearby in any ship i begin to evade, 

[QuantumBomber]

 

A DD that can manage to get in close enough to you to launch torps you can not avoid deserves every torp hit he gets imo.

Its not like its an easy thing to do every game is it.

 

 

 

Its not easy for any ship to be useful every game. Hell even in my BB i sometimes just die in 5 mins cause of planes and other BBS. He did nothing that required a big amount of work or skill. He knew i was already fighting a 2v1 and pressed the SC, went invisible and shot torps into a Kongo 2km away. Its not that hard to do that. Just cause it can be hard to play a a DD does not mean being invisible at less then 2km should be allowed. I play DDs and im also grinding the Pepsicola. 

[QuantumBomber]

 

Check the battle of Samar though..you will see what some Fletchers did there using smoke screen (there were also rain squalls). As it is now..when we put the smoke screen we are visible, only when we turn in it we become invisible...we also have to disable AA fire, not shoot, etc....And if I'm not wrong..when you fire torpedoes you become more visible (maybe not like firing guns), because many times after firing my torps my enemy just starts evasive maneuvers. That maybe is just my imagination though...

 

And believe me, DD's require alot of skill...atleast at higher tiers when enemies are not sitting ducks...

 

Im well aware of the events around taffy 3. This is a arcade game.Also the distance at which the SC were not within 3km of the japs fleet so its kinda irrelevant., Also i play DDS i know how the mechanics work. And if angled right you can be invisible when deploying the SC. 

[Vincinzerei]

Till Lvl 5 theRate of Fire of Torps from DD´s is "good" or "fast" with a reload from 25-40seks
Depending on the DD they also have either 8 Torps on one side, or 12 Torps (6 left, 6 right)
Beginning from Tier 6 the Rate of Fire go well down, also the Amount of Torps you can fire in Volleys..

It start with 1.30 reload per Tube to 2.30 (tier10) per Tube
And also with 2 Spread a 4/5 Torps or 3 Spreads of 5 Torps..

so the amount,and the rate of Fire significantly slow down to the point where a DD fire his torps, and have the freedom to look for himself (what to do) for about 2 Minutes..

[H_E_R_T_Z]

Some things happen 3x faster in this game...

 

[solinari]

In my oppinion DD's only weapon is the smoke screen to get close enough to a bigboy to launch a torpedo attack that mostly hits the target. There are some cases when you can make it without smoke like circling islands and gettin a surprise launch. Other cases DD's are literally one salvo for cruisers and bb's. For bb's especially up form kongo and fuso they kill dd's with secondary armament, you dont really need to fire the big guns. 

[Gryphonne]

Here we go again. As a BB (and any other ship really) you need to plan your movements well ahead. Driving between islands as if you're some racing car is going to get you killed if there is a DD lurking somewhere. No time to correct your mistake? The DD should not get punished for it, you should. As for all the other "fantastic" suggestions coming from either mediocre DD players or people who've only "learned by watching", play a DD on higher tiers when the sky is swarming with scout planes and watch your limited amount of 5 torp salvoes get spotted from 15km away. 

[azakow]

azakow, on 08 April 2015 - 04:22 PM, said:

What exactly is broken?

 

Smoke screen and offensive power?!

Sure there is an offensive element in laying an smoke screen. This power is triggered by the opponents minds mostly, at best.

 

I do not see any offensive power while my DD is laying a smoke screen.

This is because of the described behavior puffing out left and rigth of the ship.

The front will never be covered, hence you get spotted on your "offensive" run.

 

Dude, literally just tack back and forth.  You only need to offset by about 15 degrees to be magically invisible.  You'll flash up for a moment every ten seconds.  Big whoop.

 

Also, you launch torps over the side.  That's by far the most vulnerable point of an attack run, except you can choose to be invisible throughout.

I understand, that toggling visibilty while going towards your opponents makes it "broken".

I understand, that by turning away from the spotting opponents and bringing smoke between me and the spotter causes me to become "magically" invisible, which makes it broken again.

I wonder about your expectaions on the smoke screen in general.