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I found that dead players in the battle have tendencies to complain on others ie "how useless they are". Of course they have really nothing to do except bullying and If you try to defend you are mostly reported then.

I suggest that ANY report coming from players listed lower in final result of the battle will not be counted AND will even hit them back. I suppose this is the only way to make things just in the reporting system.

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8 minutes ago, MELONFACTORY said:

I found that dead players in the battle have tendencies to complain on others ie "how useless they are".

And why exactly do you think their opinion is less valuable just because they died? 

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8 minutes ago, MELONFACTORY said:

Of course they have really nothing to do except bullying and If you try to defend you are mostly reported then.

You can as well observe that sometimes those who try to fight for objectives are dead first, and then potatoes continue to camp uselessly but they accumulate so much "experience" (lol) that they score higher. 

8 minutes ago, MELONFACTORY said:

I suggest that ANY report coming from players listed lower in final result of the battle will not be counted AND will even hit them back.

So they whine "hey, you dude can't speak noob, you're dead" "me top score, you failed" - while it is actually they who threw the game. 

8 minutes ago, MELONFACTORY said:

I suppose this is the only way to make things just in the reporting system.

And actually they also are so arrogant like you that they don't accept the possibility that rather those who died early played (more) correctly.  :cap_cool:

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Let's say you cannot report at all after the battle (but you can compliment of course)... Got it clear? You take a risk reporting someone for "being useless" but you may actually find that reality was quite opposite.

 

Dead guy has nothing to do but is eager to teach others how to play. And this is more often a bullying than a constructive opinion (you may not believe but I do take and I like  good hints but also cannot stand "moron and idiots" conversations during the battle).

 

But take a look, EdiJo, what you wrote in the last sentence; that was immediate personal attack instead of positive argumentation. My post is exactly about this kind of commenting.

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than why bother proposing a change in system, dont get me wrong i can see where u coming from with this. but after all, its doin nothing so far.

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15 minutes ago, MELONFACTORY said:

Let's say you cannot report at all after the battle (but you can compliment of course)... Got it clear? You take a risk reporting someone for "being useless" but you may actually find that reality was quite opposite.

 

Dead guy has nothing to do but is eager to teach others how to play. And this is more often a bullying than a constructive opinion (you may not believe but I do take and I like  good hints but also cannot stand "moron and idiots" conversations during the battle).

 

But take a look, EdiJo, what you wrote in the last sentence; that was immediate personal attack instead of positive argumentation. My post is exactly about this kind of commenting.

 

Why is it that when people hear something that they don't like they're being bullied? Is this some dimension of snowflake-ism or just that people can't accept that they may not be perfect?

 

I make more mistakes than I'd like and I've had some very productive advice from team members and the opposition, do I consider this bullying, frustration or trolling? It depends how it's done.

That being said the suggestion in the original post is at best "ill advised" or to use a term that @MELONFACTORY may be triggered by and consider bullying "bloody stupid".

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57 minutes ago, MELONFACTORY said:

I found that dead players in the battle have tendencies to complain on others ie "how useless they are". Of course they have really nothing to do except bullying and If you try to defend you are mostly reported then.

I suggest that ANY report coming from players listed lower in final result of the battle will not be counted AND will even hit them back. I suppose this is the only way to make things just in the reporting system.

Really? Interesting so if let’s say at the beginning of the match cap a and b is decided and u see enemy coming in on b and switch undetected to c and leave say 2 cruisers that cannot disingage while spotted and get wrecked (couse say 3 bbs and a dd turned tail and left them to die) and they express their displesure they shouldnt be able to nick ar your karma couse u “managed to survive” and spam yourself up?

 

Hypotheticly speaking i dont aim the comment at you personnaly.

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So you say that the system is alright?

Well, I don't think so. Didn't you have the situation that you had a furious battle and was chased to the corner of the map and after surviving got the comment: "you are useless moron, maybe you should start playing"?

This is what I'm talking about. This kind of behavior of killed people blaming others. They do really have nothing to do and they misjudge. Be honest, never got this situation?

 

What's wrong with my suggestion. Focus on topic instead of me.

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Yedwy, I will tell you a real situation.

The guy was pushing me to cap and everyone knew that there were two DDS in the cap. I had no chance but got the comment of being useless. Commenting guy was the second on the bottom after the battle.

Now tell me. Was is smart to get to the cap and being killed or play it tactically and to win the battle (we actually did)?

 

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1 hour ago, MELONFACTORY said:

Let's say you cannot report at all after the battle (but you can compliment of course)... Got it clear? You take a risk reporting someone for "being useless" but you may actually find that reality was quite opposite.

This is also wrong, because the potato can actually start to play OK later - in that case I would like to have the option to base my opinion on the whole thing...

If change the reporting time, I would rather extend it.

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Dead guy has nothing to do but is eager to teach others how to play.

He is interested in the game result (because it affects him). Again, why "but"? Actually, dead players see more and have more time to think about what they see... :cap_wander:

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And this is more often a bullying than a constructive opinion (you may not believe but I do take and I like  good hints but also cannot stand "moron and idiots" conversations during the battle).

I admit I sometimes call morons morons and idiots - idiots. But only after I tried gentle way and from response learned that I'm dealing with morons or idiots. 

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But take a look, EdiJo, what you wrote in the last sentence; that was immediate personal attack instead of positive argumentation. My post is exactly about this kind of commenting.

No. You wrote something, I responded, and I judged your arguments as arrogant. Isn't it obvious? I don't know you at all - apart from those few posts you wrote. Sorry if you took it as some general evaluation of your personality ;)

BTW if you call me, quote me or append "@" 

 

1 hour ago, MELONFACTORY said:

So you say that the system is alright?

there is no 'system'. It is only some way of "venting the frustration", without any effect at all. 

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Well, I don't think so. Didn't you have the situation that you had a furious battle and was chased to the corner of the map and after surviving got the comment: "you are useless moron, maybe you should start playing"?

Well, if you (especially in DD) are chased to the corner it very very often means you played it wrong.

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This is what I'm talking about. This kind of behavior of killed people blaming others. They do really have nothing to do and they misjudge. Be honest, never got this situation?

 

What's wrong with my suggestion. Focus on topic instead of me.

You propose something. Give your personal experience as an argument. Draw totally unjustified conclusions... It is nothing personal, really.

For sure idea of blocking the reports (or chat or whatever) for killed players is ridiculous. And proposing it (and even going further with "reporting back"!) is arrogant - because you assume only you are always right and even "the system" should automatically punish those who disagree with you.  

56 minutes ago, MELONFACTORY said:

Yedwy, I will tell you a real situation.

The guy was pushing me to cap and everyone knew that there were two DDS in the cap. I had no chance but got the comment of being useless. Commenting guy was the second on the bottom after the battle.

Now tell me. Was is smart to get to the cap and being killed or play it tactically and to win the battle (we actually did)?

 

I agree, there are idiots everywhere. But reality is not black & white as well. Maybe what he wanted was to have some spotting, or some screening from those DD, or just contesting the cap without risking too much? And you just went totally somewhere else "because there are 2 DD in the cap!" ? We all had such situations in our thousands of games. 

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Edi

My post is based on observations. And this is not based on my experiences only.

In one battle DD Gearing was defending the cap against Yamato at the end of the game... nice, yeah? He was firing like hell (he actually survived the winning battle on one of the top positions). He was commented as moron because he did not fire any torpedoes. But the answer was striking: "my both torp launchers are destroyed. And don't call me moron". Of course the observer knew better :)

Just in the last battle (also winning) I was keeping in adequate distance with Kurfurst because of torp salvos from shimakaze and kagero (our team could not kill them for long time). I was really lucky to avoid them all but it was really close ("Kurfurst and Musashi, will you start playing?" - dead man said). Now take a look from his position: almost 100% of health=camping :) Frustrated guy was the bottom second and the only reason I was accused camping was my HP status: "we won the battle for you"  :) What a misjudgement! I was sixth; wasn't the best but did my job.

 

Cap situation: the guy was dead and commenting. He had his (lethal for me) plan from his armchair but mine was to keep close but alive and rather to support our BB to kill their attacking BB. Again: "shima, you are useless moron". Beautiful misjudgement again. The guy wanted to unload his frustration and he found me as a target (I was second the top after the battle). Now consider this: I report him, he reports me.... Where is the justice?

 

I am not saying that dead people cannot report and comment. Don't take me wrong! This is also not about dead players (alive players are commenting less, because they are busy :) 

 

What I am saying is that the report is a hazard: let's say you judge someone's moron and report him. After the battle it appears that he was a valuable player on the top (XPs don't appear for nothing) so you get punished for misjudgement. But you don't know it for sure... you might be also right; your risk.

In conclusion, at the moment, the bottom players can report top players. Do you find it okay?

 

Maybe, for consideration, it would be possible to report the nearest appearing on the final list... But still, it wouldn't be possible to report AFTER the battle. Compliment - of course, absolutely YES.

 

Edi, I am sorry if you find my comment personal. It wasn't my intention for sure.

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2 hours ago, MELONFACTORY said:

So you say that the system is alright?

Reports are there to make you feel better about whatever happened. They pretty much do nothing in reality. So yeah, it's allright

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50 minutes ago, MELONFACTORY said:

Edi

My post is based on observations. And this is not based on my experiences only.

In one battle DD Gearing was defending the cap against Yamato at the end of the game... nice, yeah? He was firing like hell (he actually survived the winning battle on one of the top positions). He was commented as moron because he did not fire any torpedoes. But the answer was striking: "my both torp launchers are destroyed. And don't call me moron". Of course the observer knew better :)

Just in the last battle (also winning) I was keeping in adequate distance with Kurfurst because of torp salvos from shimakaze and kagero (our team could not kill them for long time). I was really lucky to avoid them all but it was really close ("Kurfurst and Musashi, will you start playing?" - dead man said). Now take a look from his position: almost 100% of health=camping :)

Look objectively, from both sides. Kurfurst is not a sniping boat, and it has huge health pool and the hydro for a reason. If you can't push in one flank because there is no support (no DD screen), you should relocate, and not just "keep adequate distance". Full HP Kurfurst in the late game is in fact reason to question your game play - and I surely know it is not so simple (I have Kurfurst and I tend to die quite/too/ fast in that boat). 

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Frustrated guy was the bottom second and the only reason I was accused camping was my HP status: "we won the battle for you"  :) What a misjudgement! I was sixth; wasn't the best but did my job.

You are putting too much attention to the score. It quite often does not reflect play quality at all. Sometimes worst useless potatoes (those which actually ruined the game) survive the longest and while attacked by "already victorious" "having nothing to lose" team are forced to fight and accumulate "good score". It is mainly BB domain, but not only.

 

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Cap situation: the guy was dead and commenting. He had his (lethal for me) plan from his armchair but mine was to keep close but alive and rather to support our BB to kill their attacking BB. Again: "shima, you are useless moron". Beautiful misjudgement again. The guy wanted to unload his frustration and he found me as a target (I was second the top after the battle). Now consider this: I report him, he reports me.... Where is the justice?

There is no justice in the current "system". Every potato can ban you just because you are walking the street too quietly :cap_wander_2:

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I am not saying that dead people cannot report and comment. Don't take me wrong! This is also not about dead players (alive players are commenting less, because they are busy :) 

Well, you a few times mentioned being dead as the factor which makes the person's opinion worthless. Or at least worth much less ;)  But it is exactly opposite. Dead guy is still vitally interested in victory, and he sees more and he has more time to think about what he sees. :fish_boom:

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What I am saying is that the report is a hazard: let's say you judge someone's moron and report him. After the battle it appears that he was a valuable player on the top (XPs don't appear for nothing) so you get punished for misjudgement. But you don't know it for sure... you might be also right; your risk.

In conclusion, at the moment, the bottom players can report top players. Do you find it okay?

 

Maybe, for consideration, it would be possible to report the nearest appearing on the final list... But still, it wouldn't be possible to report AFTER the battle. Compliment - of course, absolutely YES.

Once again. The "score" (alone) means NOTHING. The most worthless potato can be top 1, and still be the cause of the game being lost. There is long way to go for WG to make "XP" reflect true gameplay quality - and it is the target impossible to achieve in general. 

 

For example I've seen many useless DD which instead of scouting/screening/area denying were sightseeing the map border or remote islands, only to ambush some AFK or other potatoes plus (re-)cap abandoned caps where the game was already lost long ago. Top 1 score, not like those "dead noobs" which expected to have DD in the team!

 

Or "heroic" BB which were sniping from 20+ km all game, but at the end made furious last stand while enemy damaged ships suicided into him like crazy. Sometimes such potato is so lucky that gets the rarest medal in the game: Solo Warrior (lol max hard...) :fish_palm:

Even making the game won somehow, even having the medal collection, even being top 1 scorer - it all doesn't change the simple fact that he is still a potato which was throwing the game until the game went to him and threw itself ;)

 

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Edi, I am sorry if you find my comment personal. It wasn't my intention for sure.

Mine too, ofcoz, we're just talking :cap_like:

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Facts:

I haven't observed the top scorer being rude yet.

But I found that frustrated (mostly killed, if I may say so :)) are reporting and repeatedly calling others as "morons" (I suppose this is the mostly often used word in the game :) )

Alive players are busy; they play and have no time for discussions.

 

Some players don't understand that:

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country". [Patton]

 

So, playing to win is priority and playing smart is the key. It doesn't have to be elegant. 

Regarding your BB example:

Please read about German tactics in Coronel Islands battle. They were playing not for XP but to win.

If the BB tactics (in your example) worked and won the battle then what is the problem? And do you find it fair that the last man in the score is reporting that BB?

 

I am really pissed of guys commenting others. It is affecting the morale: "another team of idiots" said the first killed man. What does he think, that calling someone's a moron will make him instantly playing better in the battle? Especially when, as we see later, commenting and reporting guy is on the last position in the score (please don't tell me that score is nothing, the score is a quite accurate evaluation of the performance).

And if you try to answer to that type of guys, you are reported.

You say reports mean nothing. If this is really nothing then maybe reporting system should be abandoned?

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Yeah, I have also seen the situations when observers were trying to give a really good advises and were commented: "Don't teach me how to play". Minutes later the game was lost, the guy knew better :)

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And yes, I had some battles when I was engaged from the beginning, got kills, hits, ended on top position and was reported!!! :) Don't tell me any "Maybe you...". It wasn't because of me but because someone was frustrated - that's it. This kind of reports must hit back!

 

My point is to rethink the reporting system to make it fair. The chatroom would be immediately a better place too (people will think twice before calling someone a moron).

 

 

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1 hour ago, MELONFACTORY said:

Facts:

I haven't observed the top scorer being rude yet.

Top 1 potato is in fact rare, but scoring in first 3 is quite common in thrown games without good players in the team. 

And I meant "responding to rudeness", so I think you wouldn't count that even if you had seen it ;)

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But I found that frustrated (mostly killed, if I may say so :)) are reporting and repeatedly calling others as "morons" (I suppose this is the mostly often used word in the game :) )

Alive players are busy; they play and have no time for discussions.

Wrong. Maybe you play ships which don't rely on team support. I understand that you're mainly DD guy - and you can easily disengage when outgunned. Larger ships don't have such a comfort - they need spotting and screening. That's what the communication is for. But if you think "good players have no time for chat" ... well. It's only true for selected ships. 

 

Stat check: Bingo. Almost exclusively DD player (good stats), plus some German BB and HE spamming cruisers (both with results below average).  

 

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Some players don't understand that:

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country". [Patton]

Sure, we all are egoists, but some ships have a supporting role to fulfill, ya know. 

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So, playing to win is priority and playing smart is the key. It doesn't have to be elegant. 

But DD survival is similarly important to survival of the BB he's leaving without escort and which can't "cloak", turn and run away. I'm sure you'd notice that if you'd play your German BB more aggressively (for now you have 50k average dmg in Freddy (84 games) and 68k in Kurfurst (19 games). High winrate, though, which suggests you're a careful, sniping-type - not a yoloer ;) 

 

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Regarding your BB example:

Please read about German tactics in Coronel Islands battle. They were playing not for XP but to win.

LOL. Are you German? ;) You call this slaughter of helpless short-range light cruisers a battle? What Briton battlecruisers did to those Germans a bit later was much more fair fight. :cap_look:

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If the BB tactics (in your example) worked and won the battle then what is the problem?

OMG. What "tactics"? Sitting 20km in the back and waiting that maybe some suiciders will come 1 by 1? :fish_palm:

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And do you find it fair that the last man in the score is reporting that BB?

OF COURSE. Idiot is idiot, if I died earlier it doesn't mean I can't report him for bad play. 

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I am really pissed of guys commenting others. It is affecting the morale: "another team of idiots" said the first killed man.

 

Well, sometimes such commenting is justified, sometimes it is not. You should be pissed only in that latter case, right?

 

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What does he think, that calling someone's a moron will make him instantly playing better in the battle?

I usually resort to moroning much later than I politely ask, propose or point what I think should be done. And usually after it is clear that I was right (sure, sometimes I'm wrong, I sit quiet then :cap_yes:)

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Especially when, as we see later, commenting and reporting guy is on the last position in the score (please don't tell me that score is nothing, the score is a quite accurate evaluation of the performance).

Score is nothing :etc_red_button: 

Based on damage and simple measures like completed (only!) caps, kill(-steals), artificial tier bonus. Doesn't take into account (much enough) spotting, tanking, positioning, screening, scouting, escorting, cap contesting - and those things are sometimes more important than those "counted". Properly playing synergizing divisions are so much stronger than bunch of selfish randoms that it is simply not fair anymore ;)

 

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And if you try to answer to that type of guys, you are reported.

Often it means you talk to a potato (and you can't reason with a vegetable...) - and it can also mean you didn't understand/didn't agree with the message. 

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You say reports mean nothing. If this is really nothing then maybe reporting system should be abandoned?

In current state it has no true "reporting" function. And the only part actually penalizing is the chat ban. Useless clicking, just for "venting the frustration"...

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Yeah, I have also seen the situations when observers were trying to give a really good advises and were commented: "Don't teach me how to play". Minutes later the game was lost, the guy knew better :)

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And yes, I had some battles when I was engaged from the beginning, got kills, hits, ended on top position and was reported!!! :) Don't tell me any "Maybe you...". It wasn't because of me but because someone was frustrated - that's it.

Sure. Many forumites here had similar experience. I personally get reports mostly for whining and throwing moron/idiot words. Maybe I'm not good enough player ;)

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This kind of reports must hit back!

But you can't (automatically, in the current state of the game) tell whether it was just for you being good or you got good score despite playing badly. 

 

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My point is to rethink the reporting system to make it fair. The chatroom would be immediately a better place too (people will think twice before calling someone a moron).

Oh, I think twice. But if you tell the DD: please be closer, spot, scout, cap if it's safe - and he decides: nope, I will go for that CV in A1!   Sorry. There are names for such behavior and I will use them. :fish_glass:

(Even if he gets that CV and in the totally lost game he will score as top 1)

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6 hours ago, MELONFACTORY said:

Let's say you cannot report at all after the battle (but you can compliment of course)... Got it clear? You take a risk reporting someone for "being useless" but you may actually find that reality was quite opposite.

A DD goes to the cap. A couple cruisers and BBs are behind him.

Enemy DD with a Radar cruiser support appear.

Friendly DD turns away, spotting the cruiser and fighting the DD.

Friendly cruisers and BBs get scared, start running away and spend 5 minutes killing the cruiser while the enemy DD caps and escapes (friendly DD is, of course, long since dead).

Friendly cruisers and BBs spend the rest of the game sniping, too scared of the (still alive) enemy DD to as much as approach the cap. Points tick slowly in favor of the enemy team and the game is lost.

 

Tell me, who actually did his job - the DD trying to contest the cap or the whole supporting fleet that got scared of two ships and couldn't shoot straight?

Tell me, who will be higher in XP - the DD that got killed with a bit of damage on enemy DD or the members of the fleet that spent the whole match sniping at targets of opportunity without even trying to push an objective and turn the match in team's favor?

 

Your whole argument rests on the assumption that XP reflects the quality of player's decision making in the match. This assumption is, however, false. It's possible to score pretty decently without doing anything of value (I did, in fact, have matches where I literally scored on top just by killing two ships in the closing stage of the battle when everything was already decided one way or the other). It's also possible to die by doing the right thing but not receiving the support you should've been given (and had good reasons to expect) - this especially happens to DDs that get into caps only to realize that the ships seemingly coming to support them prefer to turn away or hide behind an island they can't shoot over.

 

I don't say there's no correlation between doing what you should and ending up high on the score list, but it's just a correlation. The game isn't played alone and it's not just the team result that is affected by other players - personal XP gains aren't all that personal either. Not to mention things pretty much beyond anyone's control - not many peple fly anti-deto signal in Randoms and this can mean quick, pitiful early deaths that can be attributed pretty much completely to nothing more than a bit of bad luck.

 

1 hour ago, MELONFACTORY said:

Facts:

I haven't observed the top scorer being rude yet.

Lucky you. I've observed plenty.

In fact, to be fair, I've also been a rude top scorer myself. It's pretty taxing for my nerves when I carry really hard but the team proves just way too heavy to be carried.

 

1 hour ago, MELONFACTORY said:

Some players don't understand that:

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making some other poor dumb bastard die for his country". [Patton]

If one batallion enters the battle and ens up slaughtered because the rest of the army run away at the prospect of facing the enemy, I'd be hard pressed to blame the dead guys for this defeat, though.

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Make it easy, dead players should not be allowed to post in chat!

This would fix this situation!

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When i see, for example, Kurfurst sniping from 20km+ or trying to go to another map thru map boundaries and has 60k avg on it ofc i call him all kind of names. 

And when he press that idiotic button " i need intelligence data " i wish i can reach thru screen. 

Intelligence data for uninteligent BB.

 

 

 

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14 hours ago, EdiJo said:

And why exactly do you think their opinion is less valuable just because they died? 

 

 

Because they died.  I don't want to hear anything from dead players.

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I hit one guy with three torps making 40k of damage. He went mad, started shouting, insulting and then reported me in revenge. What is the purpose of such report?

Can you propose a solution for this creepy situation?

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8 minutes ago, MELONFACTORY said:

I hit one guy with three torps making 40k of damage. He went mad, started shouting, insulting and then reported me in revenge. What is the purpose of such report?

Can you propose a solution for this creepy situation?

 

Yep, grow a thicker skin, this is the internet.

Its snowflakes like yourself that are ruining gaming.

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5 minutes ago, MELONFACTORY said:

I hit one guy with three torps making 40k of damage. He went mad, started shouting, insulting and then reported me in revenge. What is the purpose of such report?

Can you propose a solution for this creepy situation?

Yup, get rid of the reporting system that allows such stuff. Problem solved. I remember playing my Tashkent, happily burning down BBs, APing the hell out of cruisers, and winning the game for my team. I ended up with the top XP score by a wide margin. Do you know what my reward was? 7! reports and a chat ban. 

 

I also remember reporting a Grosser Kurfürst because he stayed at max range the whole game mostly hiding behind islands and nearly cost us the game when he almost died to a damned Charles Martel, who was the last surviving enemy ship. I died in the first 10 minutes BUT i killed 2 out of 3 enemy DDs and helped my team kill the third. Does that mean i shouldnt have reported him as i was dead?

 

So once again, just remove that stupid reporting system.

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