Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Bratwurst_Bob

"Raptor Rescue" Scenario: Are you out of your mind? Who okayed this?

118 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Alpha Tester
183 posts
6,761 battles

I like to play PvE scenarios, played Killer Whale with all ship classes every day. I enjoyed it a lot.
But this? This is utter bs. I'm angry right now, so I can't just come here and do all nice because of this mess of a scenario, it is just total crap. FIrst of all: the start point immediately gets shot to pieces by a DD, CA and BB, all spawning basically right next to this tightly packed bunch of ships. My first try in a DD - dead in first 2 minutes. 2nd try in my Molotov - dead in 2 minutes. Because I chose to engage I got focused immediately and because of the short distances there is no room to maneuver. All three enemy ships spawn simultaneously and are within 4km range in under a minute. All 3 of my missions I had so far had minimum 1 dead and numerous badly wounded ships right then and there. Wow, such fun! We barely started and are already mauled. Then we get to the CV which gets rearmed & repaired, and we all sit in another tight stupid circle, because we got a repair ship with us. And guess what: we all expect to get repaired as well (and need it, too!) BUT NOOOOO! Of course we don't get repaired, instead, when this whole group is moving out - through a laughingly narrow passage we all have to fit through - THEN IT STARTS TO REPAIR US! On the move! With another super tight circle. It just can' get any more retarded, can it? Yes, it can.

Now a CV will drop torpedoes and bombs on this tight group. Im ny 3rd attempt I brought my pimped out Independence and still they got through and sank the target in no time. Everyone was so bunched up, the torpedo planes could have thrown those blind and hit something. In three attempts I have yet to see whatever else bs will be thrown at us beyond that point, I haven't made it any further. 

So yeah, great fun, awesome map and AI spawn design, I just wonder why the frack okayed this bs and thought this might be fun...

 raptor.png

  • Funny 4
  • Boring 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PUPSI]
Privateer
8,640 posts

Raptor Rescue is still one of the easier scenarios and you only fail if the team doesn't know what to do...

 

Vor 22 Minuten, Bratwurst_Bob sagte:

FIrst of all: the start point immediately gets shot to pieces by a DD, CA and BB

the DD: easy target for the cruisers

the CA: nice target for your cruisers and BBs, as long as you don't have a stupid CV in your team that attacks the CA with torps and makes him turn so that he doesn't show you his nice broadside that eats easy citadels otherwise..

the BB: only tier 4, shouldn't be a problem with focus fire of your cruisers and BBs after the DD and Ca are dead..

 

Vor 16 Minuten, Bratwurst_Bob sagte:

My first try in a DD

who takes a DD into scenarios?

 

Vor 25 Minuten, Bratwurst_Bob sagte:

and we all sit in another tight stupid circle

so you know that more enemy ships will come and you don't move to intercept them? Why not?

 

Vor 17 Minuten, Bratwurst_Bob sagte:

this tightly packed bunch of ships.

don't stick together so tightly then...

 

Vor 19 Minuten, Bratwurst_Bob sagte:

Now a CV will drop torpedoes and bombs on this tight group.

if you are in a tight group at this time of the scenario it is your fault...

 

Vor 17 Minuten, Bratwurst_Bob sagte:

Im ny 3rd attempt I brought my pimped out Independence

bad choice, while it has quite good fighters, you have only 3 squads...imho the Japanese with its 5 quads is the much better choice...

  • Cool 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
183 posts
6,761 battles
10 minutes ago, Bismark_ohne_Zeh said:

Raptor Rescue is still one of the easier scenarios and you only fail if the team doesn't know what to do...

Please, by all means post your 5 or 4 star wins. 

Just had my 4th attempt, and we got a bit further this time, but the whole scenario stays a ridiculous as it begins, this is the worst arbitrariness I have seen in quite a while. Oh and anyone not near the repair ship got smothered to pieces in no time. 

I will also need you to donate me enough gold so I can unlock a japanese carrier since my Independence and her level 10 captain simply won't cut it. You could ask WG to help you out there, since you seem to clarify on their behalf, as that was their intention all along? Silly me, what was I thinking!

 

Killer Whale was great, it gave me options. I had various way to tackle the mission, I could use different ships and have a good match nonetheless. I could design my approach and exit each time and it felt like i was honing my skills and could test different things.


This here? Nothing left of it. It's a slug fest for close range damage dealers, the rest will just sink.

  • Bad 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,570 posts
5,945 battles

Before the BOT AI change this scenario was an easy 4-5 star win 75% of the time as shown in this thread here which is filled with 5 star fun games in all kinds of ships, as well as few games filled with some clueless people.

 

Yet since the Bot AI Change all the scenarios have become much harder to win but the reason isn't the Bot AI change as all that has changed is that the Bots now get captain skills and flag. Instead it's the fact that before the change the team could cope with 4-5 "poor" skill level players derping around yet still win and now the recent slight Bot tweak has made it much more difficult for the remaining 2-3 "good" players to carry the team to a win.

 

As proof of this effect in the 60+ scenarios I'd played I added my MxStats to a thread on here somewhere which shows the PvP Win Rate for all the players in the team and in matches where there was 4-5 players with under 45% WR we would lose (or only get 1-2 stars) the Scenario yet with teams with 3-4 50%+ WR players, we would easily win with 4-5 Star wins everytime.

 

So it seems like the new Bots have "juuuuuuust" about pushed the required player skill level beyond what the majority (but not all) of Scenario players are capable of and the players enjoyment of this mode is now suffering because of that, as there is no way a few "good" players can overcome the sheer drag of carrying so many "poorer" players where as they could before.

 

PS Here's some of my results from before the Bot tweak taken from that forum link above. Since the Bot tweak I've not been able to replicate anything like these results anymore so I've stopped playing scenarios. After all why would I waste 20 minutes just to come away with 350 base XP on yet another defeat when I could play 2 Co-Op games and win in that time -

 

  Hide contents

wows452.jpg

 

 

  Hide contents

wows453.jpg

 

wows454.jpg

 

wows455.jpg

 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Quality Poster
3,722 posts
11,516 battles

Hi all,

 

9 minutes ago, IanH755 said:

So it seems like the new Bots have "juuuuuuust" about pushed the required player skill level beyond what the majority (but not all) of Scenario players are capable of and the players enjoyment of this mode is now suffering because of that, as there is no way a few "good" players can overcome the sheer drag of carrying so many "poorer" players where as they could before.

 

:Smile_hiding:

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PUPSI]
Privateer
8,640 posts
Vor 5 Minuten, IanH755 sagte:

Yet since the Bot AI Change all the scenarios have become much harder to win but the reason isn't the Bot AI change as all that has changed is that the Bots now get captain skills and flag.

but the enhanced Bot AI affected mainly the tier 7 scenarios, the effect in the tier 6 scenarios was (at least for me) not really noticeable. And I am quite sure that the bots had skills already before, I remember burning bot CVs that launched planes...

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,570 posts
5,945 battles

Yeap, I agree and thats what my post says too, the effect of the Bot tweak on the performance of the bots is fairly minimal. It's the player skill levels which are the big problem and that tiny tweak to the new Bots was just enough to push poor players past their skill level.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
183 posts
6,761 battles

I just had my 5th match and it was a 5 star win, but only by a hair's width. Our CV was pre-positioning his planes and took good care of the enemy planes. Not a japanese CV, mind you :) Our Pensa was great in taking out CAs and I had a really good hit pattern with my Warspite, totally untypical for her. But I had to use all my Premium Repairs and stick to the repair ship to make it, I was nearly burned to toast half way through, saved only by the depot ship.

The others just got blown to pieces as usual: quick and unceremoniously. I at least have the satisfaction of a hard won fight, but the others? Yeah, nt so much. And it was all down to luck not skill or team effort. All it would take is a smart mission design that promotes movement and coordination, in its current state it came down to my huge amount of HP, a level 14 captain with skilled secondaries and pure rng luck. 

 

5star.png
5star_1.png

 

That is not enough to be fun for everyone. This needs to be redone, and I stand by my opinion.

  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
Players
3,651 posts
12,619 battles

Everything you wrote in the OP says more about the players than the Op, really.

:cap_hmm:

 

The only "challenging" part is the halfway point where 2 DDs and a Kuma spawn, and try to torp-rush the Raptor.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JRM]
Players
3,306 posts
18,738 battles
36 minutes ago, Bratwurst_Bob said:

I just had my 5th match and it was a 5 star win, but only by a hair's width. Our CV was pre-positioning his planes and took good care of the enemy planes. Not a japanese CV, mind you :)

 

All it would take is a smart mission design that promotes movement and coordination

 

That is not enough to be fun for everyone. This needs to be redone, and I stand by my opinion.

Pt 1 - That’s what he is supposed to do, it doesn’t really matter is it Ruyo or Indy im not much of a cv player but Raptor is a cakewalk compared to some other scenarios, when i take out CV in it those bb and Ca that spawn up north of team spawn are always dead or nearly dead before the come out behind the Island and the dd is dead even before that do to premaspoting, only Real tightspots are the torpedo rush and not triggering zuiho bot 2 early so u dont have to deal with double sided attack in that critical time, but u can manage even that if u nuke him with a single wave as a cv u only need bbs and/or cruisers to take out myoko at that time becouse of Its dfaa and u re home free to strike

 

Pt 2 - Well it kind of does unfortunatley with an average tato Getting that iz utopia

 

Pr 3 - Raptor is fine, acctualy i ll expqnd on that - scenarios are fine i also wented some steam mostly about ultimate Frontier but in the end u beat them all

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Alpha Tester
183 posts
6,761 battles

I'm sure everyone in my 5 tries at this scenario will beg to differ.

The question is what these scenarios are supposed to provide. I for one consider them as training grounds, ideal for giving a tier 6 player a chance to test his ships and hone his skills. This one is not working for a casual player with a normal level of skill points on his captain and normal consumables. So far the DDs and CAs got shot to pieces so fast, the message is don't bring any. Unless it's soandso.

If that's the intention, then spot on. If not; this isn't working as intended. I also now think this scenario would probably be a walk in the park for tier 7 ships due to the leap in abilities, but as tier 6: nope.

 

Also, the very first impression I had after my first sudden death was pure Arbitrariness. I got punished for trying to be active and protect the assets, there was no learning curve or room for error, I just got taken out right at the start because there is no room to move and be smart about it. The whole "escort the carrier to Raptor" signals stick together, unless you're a seasoned scenario veteran how would know better. So you do as told and get wasted for it. Again arbitrarily. And again no learning curve, since the enemy just pops up in your vicinity, too late for you to do any meaningful moving or repositioning.  

Maybe some forts or scout planes telegraphing enemy ship movements at least in some cases could help to incite proper coordination and some proactive moving & preparing.

  • Cool 1
  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[JRM]
Players
3,306 posts
18,738 battles

U can play that scenario with any t6 cruiser no problem but pepsi might be a choice ship now that its t6 since its enough to have a 5 point capt for it to be effective and 12 points to be a rocker and leander is always a Safe bet too, I even beat it with some dds its not that hard as for the other part - well u dont hone battle skills by slaughtering lambs u need a fight for that, easy mode doesn’t Promote skill improvement

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SUOLA]
Players
3 posts
7,984 battles
6 minutes ago, Bratwurst_Bob said:

I for one consider them as training grounds, ideal for giving a tier 6 player a chance to test his ships and hone his skills.

If they make it much easier, how is that training anyone? That's what co-op is for.  If operations are challenging,  but doable after a few retries, you actually get the feeling of accomplishment. Too easy, and it just turns to boring repetition to farm expand credits.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PKTZS]
Weekend Tester
2,453 posts
15,857 battles

Right now Raptor Rescue is probably the easiest operations of all.

 

Now, if you get 4 team mates who cant hit a DD at 4kms there's nothing you can do, because you alone can't sink the 2DDs fast enough (except by pure lucky detonations.). Raptor will get torpedoed to death in the middle of the game and game will be over.

 

But complaining about the opening bot wave... OMG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
20,391 posts
12,536 battles

The operation is still easy.

Teammates doing stupid stuff are the real challenge.

 

In every match I try to help the team and announce enemy groups in advance.

One time I had a division in team who told me to shut up since I would not be the only one who knows how the OP works. Later they got sunk by going one by one into the bot spawns far from the Raptor or anyone who could give them support...

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[COMFY]
Players
1,235 posts
6,941 battles

I always thought it is the easiest of the operations available.

Even with randoms it is fairly easy.

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
4,528 posts
9,851 battles
2 hours ago, Bismark_ohne_Zeh said:

 

the CA: nice target for your cruisers and BBs, as long as you don't have a stupid CV in your team that attacks the CA with torps and makes him turn so that he doesn't show you his nice broadside that eats easy citadels otherwise..

 

This is .. just wrong. The single danger the furutaka has to your team is its 10km torps, that can easily hit and severely damage the support ships. Which is why you need to either delete it as soon as it comes into view, or make it turn outwards which will make it either stop it's torp launch, or make it launch it from too far away to reach the support ships.

 

Your other points are quite correct though, even if it's quite usable with DDs in some scenarios (raptor rescue not really being one of these, though a competent player can make it usable).

 

For the op, if what you described really happened, then I feel bad for any team with you on it, because getting sunk by the first group takes amazing effort at being bad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,565 posts
10,242 battles

@MrConway why all pve players are currently moaning that you (read: wg)  fked up scenarios?

Maybe give em something super easy and introduce hard mode finally...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
710 posts
9,046 battles
3 minutes ago, Boris_MNE said:

@MrConway why all pve players are currently moaning that you (read: wg)  fked up scenarios?

Maybe give em something super easy and introduce hard mode finally...

@Boris_MNE would you agree with me that the main problem in scenarios atm is that the scenarios are too easy, such that poor players play them, while they are no real fun for good players?

 

When i play scenarios im 95% ranked 1st, while im not an  extraordanarily good player. And i think i even outperform my #2 by a factor of 2 in about half of the battles. 

 

If we get hard mode the whiners can have easier battles & we can have proper good scenarios, with decent rewards (it also sucks that you cant get rewards after getting 5th star once). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[CATS]
Players
20,391 posts
12,536 battles
6 minutes ago, Boris_MNE said:

@MrConway why all pve players are currently moaning that you (read: wg)  fked up scenarios?

Maybe give em something super easy and introduce hard mode finally...

Not all...

I am fine with the Ops.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PMI]
Players
2,564 posts
6,009 battles

Since no one posted this yet: git gud , OPs are easy...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WJDE]
Beta Tester
555 posts
8,741 battles
25 minutes ago, Boris_MNE said:

@MrConway why all pve players are currently moaning that you (read: wg)  fked up scenarios?

Maybe give em something super easy and introduce hard mode finally...

If you think about it, it's super funny because pretty much all wg did was to give bots flags and captain skills. Just that and ops went from "standard coop easy" to "way too hard, nerf bots pls".

 

Wg should make similar changes to standard coop, my popcorn is ready.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[POP]
Players
452 posts
9,736 battles

The rational expectation is that if coop and ops becomes too challenging for the reward they give the potatos will find more easy playground. In this it is the random games where sub 45% WR players will on occasion land on a good team due to rng MM that will carry them to a victory.

 

Let the potatos stay on coop and ops by not making them too challenging.

  • Bad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×