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Blapmesiter

Service Costs/Credit Rewards

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Having perused the forums in search of a relevant thread on the subject, I did not find one that suitably addressed this issue in a substantial manner.

 

My latest issue with the current format of WoWs is the service costs and module resupply costs in combination with credits earned per game. While I agree that the upkeep costs were instated for an excellent reason (preventing cowardice), I now experience an ancillary problem: My ships cost too much to play. I am on a standard account and have used premium to grind as well, and it makes little difference. The problem is that even on a premium account, unless you have monster damage games, you struggle to make money at any tier. Not even earning crates can stave off the credit-starvation. I find myself selling signals, camos, and anything else not nailed down just to stay in the positives.

 

The only good money-maker ship I currently own is a premium (The Gallant), and it will make me some money in small amounts. However, trying to play on ships like the Cleveland, the Maass, Shchors, Fuso, Bismarck, Fiji, or any other ship (pick your poison) is going to be a net-loss. That's especially true for the standard account players.

 

Yes, costs were instated to stop people hiding to save money. But the costs are far too extreme, and are hilariously bad at high tier. You will lose thousands and thousands of credits trying to play at high tier only to come away with 30k damage and -50k credits. Seeing the Credits and XP section mocking me with all the money I could've saved with premium doesn't help either.

WG, please please please reduce the upkeep costs or increase the money rewards per game. I don't want to play this game if I'm going to feel like playing my ships will cost me more money than I will earn.

 

Example:
Ship played: Z-52
Premium Account Active

Clan bonuses

Signals: None Used

Damage Done: 47,000
Credits Earned: Total--> 232k  Lost--> 216,520 credits to upkeep costs -----> Overall Earned $15,960.00

 

Granted, you do not need to earn monster credits at high tier if you've finished advancing your ship lines. But a handful of you have accomplished that, and the broad majority are still working through it and struggling to make any headway. The only other thing this suggests to average players is that you need to use real world money to buy credits. But even with premium, you still walk away with garbage money every game. It is just simply not enough.

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On tier 9 and 10 that is true if you did not manage to pull your weight.
But on lower tiers i do not have that issue.
Have you tried not running with every consumable premium?
That could save a bit on the expenses.
Also, i am using a simple account and i own no premium ships.
I sealclub at tier 4 and 5 to grind money (which is a very SLOW process) but i still dont have the same issue as you.
On bbs i use premium repair only, on takao premium heal, on us dds premium smoke, on shiratsuyu premium torp reload and cheapest -3% detectability camo on all dds.
If you are not running with all consumables premium, probably you will have to improve your game and damage

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Probably mainly damage on battleships?

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3 minutes ago, hgbn_dk said:

Finance high tier by playing low/mid tier on free accounts.

He has a premium account.

Also... one more battle to break 20k battles! :cap_viking:

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shot-18_06.14_00_55.11-0702.thumb.jpg.474bb322b3af13982e0e257a95d32794.jpg

 

This is a co-op Fuso vs T-VIII game no camo no premium consumables.... I would run with profit even with a free account..

 

Not saying you're bad or anything. But maybe consider earning your profit in co-op if you struggle breaking even in randoms. Easy money no need for camo or consumables

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The economy is WAY too FORGIVING already in this game...

Evidence?

Just look at all the glue sniffers at high tier...as long as they can afford being that bad,its the truth.

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1 hour ago, Blapmesiter said:

The problem is that even on a premium account, unless you have monster damage games, you struggle to make money at any tier

I play without premium, and even without any flags / camos / whatever else that boost credits (I still always have a camo - bought for credits or one of the "special ones" - and premium consumables - paid with credits) I can easily make profit up to (and including) tier 8, and go at least even (that means around 0 - slight profit, slight loss, overall staying on the spot) on tier 9. Only tier 10 is guaranteed credits loss, but you fix that by either having premium acc or perma camo on your t10 ship (or both).

 

System is really soft as it is, and the ease with which the average potato with his 15k average dmg Yamato can make credits is one of the reasons why t10 ships are so overplayed

 

1 hour ago, Blapmesiter said:

I find myself selling signals, camos, and anything else not nailed down just to stay in the positives.

Funny thing really, if you actually used them instead of selling them - that would probably boost your credit income quite a bit

 

The "Type 2" camos (+4% enemy dispersion) is the only camo worth selling as it's the only one that doesn't give you camo bonus. No signals are wasted if you play multiple classes, if you play 1 class only then there might be a couple staying as spare.

 

1 hour ago, Blapmesiter said:

The only good money-maker ship I currently own is a premium

All premiums make more credits than their silver counterparts of the same tier. Tier 8 premiums are the best moneymakers you can buy in the game, and they are beaten only by the tier 9 FreeXP ships - Missouri, Musashi and Kronstadt.

Not sure how Salem and Stalingrad will be regarding credits earnings, as the first tier 10 "premiums" in the game

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Panda's quick guide for not netting credit losses on a standard account:

  • Collect bonus signals and camo from containers and missions for use on the most appropriate ships. You don't need reduced servicing costs signals at T2, but at T9 and 10 they'll save you tens of thousands of credits when used.
  • Chose your premium consumables wisely to save costs. Premium repair and heal extend your survivability when applied correctly and will pay for themselves that way, but you won't need premium AA or premium hydro for every ship/match and you certainly don't depend on premium fighters or spotter planes.
  • Just don't focus on T10 gameplay. T10 might be the end of a long grind and you certainly want to take your hard-earned top tiers out for a spin sometimes, but there's still much fun to be had in the lower tiers where the economy won't cause you that much trouble.

I'm on a standard account and currently grinding several T9s. It's now that i'm using up all those neat french collection special camos (+30% credits earned, +75% XP, standard bonus) and my economy signals to both speed up the grind and almost certainly guarantee a net gain after most matches. At T10, i'm expecting to lose credits most of the time (except with my HSF camo Yamato), but i'm not much into T10 gameplay anyway. I just want to unlock any T10 in the game at some point. Playing them afterwards isn't that much of a priority for me.

 

Edit @Blapmesiter: You also mentioned that you expect losses at even T6 or T7. I don't want to criticize your stats after only roughly 1200 random matches played, but be assured that you normally won't lose credits at these tiers even without a premium account as long as you reach at least average battle performance. Your ships in general (25.6% matches survived) - and especially your cruisers (15.8%) - lack survivability, which results in low damage numbers and thus low credit earnings. Extending your survivability and your active time in the match should help you a lot.

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In Randoms, I think the only ship I run a net loss on is Yamato, and with only a handful games I'm far from used at playing that ship, so that might change. Even in Shimakaze I run a slight profit on the whole. Sure, on those ships I run some credit flags (less service cost and maybe 20% extra credit income if I have some to spare that I don't use on Missouri, which you run a good profit on just for showing up), but if you've played that far you're bound to have a bunch of them anyway, and that's when you should use them.

 

I don't run any income flags or premium camos for any ships below T9 except Bismarck and Fuso, since I've gotten free premium camos for them (but I'd still run a profit even without them). I also run full premium consumables for T5 and above, and I have a standard account (most of the time).

 

If you don't get a profit from T8 and below, you should probably take a look at your gameplay. Even at average gameplay you should at least get a little bit of income. See what you can improve. Most likely you should take a look at your average damage, since that's the main contributor to economy. If have a good survival rate, you're probably too far back and miss a lot of shots, or simply don't take enough shots. Reconsider your positioning. If you have a low survival rate, play a little more carefully so you survive long enough to deal some decent damage.

 

No idea about Co-op. Operations run a profit.

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I see post after post of people who claim not to be having the problem, and others that get into specifics about flags and explaining to me how the game is played. Which is all stuff I already know, and none of you are contributing in any meaningful way.

 

I don't give a damn if you think the economy is forgiving. I think it's not. So there. *edited* 

 

I don't give a damn about WoW Stats because they are misleading and don't provide you an accurate picture of battle performances. Just because I have a bad score on a single ship with 10 battles on it doesn't make me instantly a bad player. Argue better, whoever you were.

 

I don't give a damn about whether you think I'm bad. I don't think I am. So there.

 

None of that has any bearing on the fact that I can play a mid-tier ship, play well, and still lose money for it. You all just make up these side-excuses over how you justify this game's reward system that, in my opinion, doesn't reward gameplay enough. I'm working my [edited]off playing ships like my Fuso, and I choose it mostly because it's one of the few ships I have that will consistently reward my skill shots, and even then, I can't make money because the team was full of potatoes that don't know how to play, or because everything died before I had a chance to have meaningful battle input.

 

I don't see the fairness in a system that allows you to get instantly dev-struck out of the game and then docks your pay for it. Nor do I see the fairness in a system that punishes battleships for being slow and not having the chance to put down damage numbers or captures. I don't see the fairness in grinding out 70k credits per game to buy ships that cost 15 million.

 

Talk about those things. *edited* whatever you think about me.

Edited by NickMustaine
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See...the reason why people tell you their opinion on the game economics and are giving you hints on how maybe to improve is simple: They obviously don't suffer from the same issues, at least they don't do any more, and they want to show you that they've found a way to deal with the system as it is. Maybe your playstile really supports your team - which might be indicated by your above-average winrate - but it sadly doesn't trigger the game mechanics that net you credits afterwards. These are - amongst others - damage dealt, (potential) damage tanked, kills, caps, spots and so on, and in most of these aspects your stats sadly are below average so far.

Those who answered your posting know by personal experience that there are ways to both help the team win AND trigger a sufficient credit income. We minimized early deaths, maximized our damage output and optimized our usage of consumables.

 

This way, it just doesn't matter any more if full costs for devastating strikes after just a few minutes into the match are fair or unfair because we just try to avoid being on the receiving end. It doesn't matter if it's fair or unfair that you have to pay the full servicing fee for not receiving a single scratch in a below-20-knot-dreadnought that doesn't even get into range until the match ends because we just try to avoid being left behind on an isolated flank in these ships through map experience and positioning.

 

Don't you think that if anyone here keeps telling you that the economy doesn't seem to be that punishing...that maybe there might be something to it? As i wrote...i don't criticize your stats because you are still relatively new to the game and because i still remember my own problems with progression back then when i had just above 1000 matches played. On the contrary, i'm looking at your stats to give you a hint, and i'm spotting a really low count of matches survived. Double this rate while still dealing your current damage per minute and your credit problems will most certainly vanish or at least distinctly diminish.

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48 minutes ago, Blapmesiter said:

None of that has any bearing on the fact that I can play a mid-tier ship, play well, and still lose money for it. You all just make up these side-excuses over how you justify this game's reward system that, in my opinion, doesn't reward gameplay enough. I'm working my [edited]off playing ships like my Fuso, and I choose it mostly because it's one of the few ships I have that will consistently reward my skill shots, and even then, I can't make money because the team was full of potatoes that don't know how to play, or because everything died before I had a chance to have meaningful battle input.

Honestly, looking at your stats in Fuso, it looks like you should run a profit. It's only T6, where economy is very forgiving.

 

But don't blame your team for you not being able to make money. Money is something that's far more tied to your own gameplay regardless of how your team does than experience.

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47 minutes ago, Blapmesiter said:

I don't give a damn about WoW Stats because they are misleading and don't provide you an accurate picture of battle performances.

 

Except that they aren't misleading at all when it comes to why you're struggling to make money even in mid tiers. Your average experience is extremely low across all ships, translating into low income. It doesn't matter at all what you think, such a performance will net you low earnings if any at all.

On the other hand the performance of others proves that making money even at T10 without premium account, camo or flags is very much possible.

 

Thus to make meaningful income you need to adjust your playstyle regardless of whether you think it's necessary or not.

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1 hour ago, Blapmesiter said:

Argue properly, idiot.

We already do. You don't.

 

1 hour ago, Blapmesiter said:

None of that has any bearing on the fact that I can play a mid-tier ship, play well, and still lose money for it.

That's exactly the thing - if you play the mid tier ship well (or even just average) - you'll never lose credits, even with standard account.

 

Let me put it this way - to lose credits at tier 6 / 7 (where you said you have your problems) you have to be exceptionally garbage at it, the simple fact that you are not AFK should already bring you enough so that you end up positive, not even talking about you actually doing something in the battle

 

1 hour ago, Blapmesiter said:

Fuso, and I choose it mostly because it's one of the few ships I have that will consistently reward my skill shots

One of the most inaccurate, most inconsistent, most RNG based ships in the game. Literally the opposite of what you're claiming.

 

(also Fuso has your lowest hit-rate for any t6+ BB, if we if we include 5s - only Bretagne is below it. Consistency, aye?)

 

1 hour ago, Blapmesiter said:

Nor do I see the fairness in a system that punishes battleships for being slow and not having the chance to put down damage numbers or captures.

Literally git gud.

 

BBs that you seem to play (like the Gneisenau and Bismark) are so fast they aren't much slower than cruisers, even the slower ones like Fuso do more than enough speed to keep up. Plus, of course, the massive range advantage that they have over literally everything else. So that already throws your 1st part of that "point" out through the window

 

No chance to do dmg? BBs definitely don't lead all the average dmg boards by a massive margin, no no. And they definitely don't have the best survivability by far, allowing them to take hit after hit after hit and just keep fighting when any other ship would already have gone down.

 

And capping - no problems mid-to-late game. Early on you, of course, can try, but eating a facefull of torps is our own fault. And as far as defending a cap is concerned - anyone can do it

 

Now, that would be the rest of your point "countered". So we're back to my 1st sentence in this part of the answer - literally git gud.

 

1 hour ago, Blapmesiter said:

I don't see the fairness in grinding out 70k credits per game to buy ships that cost 15 million.

It's supposed to take time. If you want to have it quicker - buy premiums, especially tier 8, and get Prem Acc. That's exactly how it's supposed to work.

Free-to-play = you can get all the good stuff, just it's going to take you more time than someone who pays & supports the game.

"Pay to progress faster" is what the monetization model is called if I remember correctly.

 

 

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If you lose credits on any Tier, you are doing it wrong. And if 50% more credits make hardly any difference, I fear the worst.

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You have been given a lot of good advice, here's my 2 cents worth: I am an average player (barely), I play on a standard account and usually make money on tiers 7 and below and break even on tier 8. For BB's, I've found buying the premium repair and heal is a good investment. I buy the permanent cammo on all my ships when available, yes it costs IRL money but saving 22+ silver per match adds up. As for affordable premium ships that make money, the Murmansk (I won that), and the G. Cesare (I bought that because I love how Italian ships look), do VERY well. One other thing, I play for fun and never forget that.:cap_popcorn:

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Your stats are curious, good win rate with generally terrible performance (wish I could get carried so much when I have a bad game). Anyhow, it's the latter which is affecting your earning potential so as @wilkatis_LV said, literally git gud.

 

And yes, I also think the economy is forgiving. Shouldn't be any way you grind the XP for a ship and not have earned the credits to unlock it until you start T9, then you may need to do some earning at lower tiers.

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While it's true that a player on standard account will have to try really hard if they wish to earn credits on tier 9 and 10...

8 hours ago, Blapmesiter said:

The problem is that even on a premium account, unless you have monster damage games, you struggle to make money at any tier.

...this is just not true. I've played with premium for as long as the game has been out and I've never to my knowledge lost credits in a battle, on any ship. That's while running every premium consumable on every ship and using no signal flags affecting credit income (because I don't need to).

 

The economy is balanced around the fact that players naturally gravitate towards top tiers, so the economy gets tougher the higher you go to reduce that effect.

It's also obviously this way so that premium account, premium ships and other credit bonuses becomes more attractive.

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Bad (but not 0-dmg-game-bad) match in standard coop means net profit of around 20k credits in tiers up to 7, tier 8 is a breakthrough point at which you overall break even sometimes losing money sometimes earning it, so I don't know how bad you have to play to lose money in mid tier pvp.

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9 hours ago, Blapmesiter said:

The only good money-maker ship I currently own is a premium (The Gallant), and it will make me some money in small amounts.

Now I know you don't believe in stats, but you have 17.000 average damage and a very low PR in this ship, this tells me that you don''t quite play to the destroyer strengths. Either you die very quickly, or you just sail along the flanks firing torps and missing. You do not contest caps, you do not cap, you simply dont do enough to make a proper profit. I see this with all your DDs.

You may not believe in stats, because they do not show you what you want to see. I hate stats myself, because I get caught by it, I constantly want to improve and look at stats to see what went wrong, is there a particular ship that I'm bad at, do I need to up my game?

For me its very easy to make credits in this game, even in tier 10 I can easily get 200-500k profits, by using the signals you're selling, and don't get me started on what you can make in a tier 8 premium or a missouri all decked out with credit flags and camo, 1.000.000 credit games aren't that uncommon.
As most others have said, the issue isn't with the system, its you and the way you're playing currently. All I can say is adapt and overcome, most others can, why can't you?

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5 hours ago, Blapmesiter said:

I see post after post of people who claim not to be having the problem, and others that get into specifics about flags and explaining to me how the game is played. Which is all stuff I already know, and none of you are contributing in any meaningful way.

 

I don't give a damn if you think the economy is forgiving. I think it's not. So there. Argue properly, idiot.

 

I don't give a damn about WoW Stats because they are misleading and don't provide you an accurate picture of battle performances. Just because I have a bad score on a single ship with 10 battles on it doesn't make me instantly a bad player. Argue better, whoever you were.

 

I don't give a damn about whether you think I'm bad. I don't think I am. So there.

 

None of that has any bearing on the fact that I can play a mid-tier ship, play well, and still lose money for it. You all just make up these side-excuses over how you justify this game's reward system that, in my opinion, doesn't reward gameplay enough. I'm working my [edited]off playing ships like my Fuso, and I choose it mostly because it's one of the few ships I have that will consistently reward my skill shots, and even then, I can't make money because the team was full of potatoes that don't know how to play, or because everything died before I had a chance to have meaningful battle input.

 

I don't see the fairness in a system that allows you to get instantly dev-struck out of the game and then docks your pay for it. Nor do I see the fairness in a system that punishes battleships for being slow and not having the chance to put down damage numbers or captures. I don't see the fairness in grinding out 70k credits per game to buy ships that cost 15 million.

 

Talk about those things. F*** whatever you think about me.

 

Oh boy ...

 

After ~1400 games you have an average damage of just a little over 26k. Damage is the single most important statistic for the reward system, you do damage, you get credits and XP. You do lots of damage, you get lots of credits and XP.

 

You don't do lots of damage, in fact you do precious little damage at all. That's why you get little credits, simple fact!

And you will never lose credits on a midtier ship when you played well (even without premium). In fact you'd be hardpressed to lose credits on a midtier ship even if you played below average.

 

Those statistics you say are misleading ... they're really not. Your global average stats actually paint a pretty consistent and clear image. Your survivability rate is extremely low and you do little damage (whilst overwhelmingly playing ship classes in which you should be doing a good deal more damage!).

The simple truth in your case isn't that the economy is too harsh (it could be improved, but it's shortcomings have precious little to do with your particular problem here), but that you don't play good enough to get better rewards. Improve your gameplay and you'll see your rewards increasing proportionally. Because if you really, actually played well in the midtiers, you should be ending every (!) match with a net profit and yes, that also means defeats.

 

This is quite obviously a player problem you're having here and the attitude you showed in your response illustrates perfectly why that problem exists in the first place.

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6 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Oh boy ...

 

That whole post you quoted reeks of D-K. :Smile_sceptic:

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5 hours ago, Blapmesiter said:

I see post after post of people who claim not to be having the problem, and others that get into specifics about flags and explaining to me how the game is played. Which is all stuff I already know, and none of you are contributing in any meaningful way.

 

I don't give a damn if you think the economy is forgiving. I think it's not. So there. Argue properly, idiot.

 

bla
 

Talk about those things. F*** whatever you think about me.

People actually tried to be polite and help you.
You want the truth?
Suck it and do more than your pathetic 20k average damage on cruisers and problem solved.

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