Balance problem division vs no division

[U156dasboot]

Balance problem
I think WG has to solve this balance problem in the game It is unreasonable that one team has three-division division and the other team has zero division and this means that this team that has division has great advantage I think this is a problem What do you think ?

obs gologle translatnig

[Ubertron_X]

It is not about the divison itself but about the quality of the division that makes or brakes a match.

 

I have seen tripple potato BB divisions simply yolo into oblivion and losing the match for their team and of course I also witnessed the same tailor made elite divisions like in your example.

 

However I do agree that a division should alsways be matched by an equal tier enemy division whenever possible, just for a better chance of even footing for both teams.

[Koruption]

Honestly I'd rather not have matched divs. If you give me a div of pure tater, that's three taters... but if you give me three individuals I stand a better chance of one of them being perdy good.

[eliastion]

1 hour ago, tobbeb17 said:

Balance problem
I think WG has to solve this balance problem in the game It is unreasonable that one team has three-division division and the other team has zero division and this means that this team that has division has great advantage I think this is a problem What do you think ?(...)

Problem is - this does NOT work like that. Divisions might have extra potential for working together (since they know each other, may trust each other's skill and possibly are on voice chat) but having a 3-people division doesn't confer inherent advantage to the team. Having a GOOD division (consisting of three good players) is a big advantage, yes, but not all divisions are good. In fact, most of them are kinda average. And these really don't change things much.

 

You see, the general thing with divisions is that USUALLY they consist of people of similar skill level. By combining three people of similar level you don't get POSITIVE impact, you get STRONGER impact. Three people who normally would have 55-56% winrate can easily break through 60% winrate if they division up. Three people who normally would be around 44-45%, however, have the potential to drag their teams below 40%. I've seen plenty matches lost because one team had a division that was so bad that the team in question was as good as playing with 3 AFKers. This becomes even funnier in case of single-class divisions. I remember one match, not that long ago, where the enemy had a division of 2 DDs in a 2DD vs 2DD kind of battle. Both of them went into a single cap (it was a domination match with 3 caps) and played so badly that they both died there. You can imagine how well the match went for their team, with no CVs and 2v0 DD set-up in a Domination match...

And then there are oh-so-common 3BB divisions of potatoes that bunch up and camp together or push together like headless chickens and either get picked apart by DDs or just remain useless, effectively removing themselves from the battle, leaving the rest of their team to pretty much fend for themselves...

[El2aZeR]

If 3 good players working together can carry a team to victory that's not a balancing problem. That's a problem with the human factor and needs to be treated as such.

[Lin3]

Signs of a bad or ordinary division:

mismatched tiers (noob division). Except for CV Division Anchoring.

Not in a clan

In a clan you've never heard of

All in the same (non smoking) silver ships.

Silent in chat

Hurling abuse or defeatest nonsense in chat.

Suggest everyone goes to the same cap during pre battle countdown

Shoot each other as soon as the battle starts

 

Signs of a dangerous, match dominating division.

In premium pay to win ships

In Flints!

In a clan that you have heard of

In a synergistic division, eg CV plus AA cruiser

Make good suggestions in the pre battle countdown

[Ferry_25]

I'm not sure that's a huge issue. We ROFL stomped a TTT and Bl4ck vs us triple div today. No, not any legendary part from me. But it doesn't say anything. Just keep playing your role and you'll be fine. Proof for the critics...  20180611_223800_PGSB110-Grossdeutschland_25_sea_hope.wowsreplay

[jss78]

Divisions are one of those things that absolutely are a balance problem, but must be weighed against other needs. 

 

Namely, there's the competing need to give people a place to play casually together. This is a fairly big attraction in this game.

 

I have a couple division mates I've played over 1300 three-man games with. We're decent players with 53-58 solo win rates. Together we win about 65%. Is this a balance problem -- arguably yes. But by tolerating this you've attracted three guys in the game who've spent a considerable sum on premium content. 

[RAHJAILARI]

8 hours ago, Ubertron_X said:

It is not about the divison itself but about the quality of the division that makes or brakes a match.

 

I have seen tripple potato BB divisions simply yolo into oblivion and losing the match for their team and of course I also witnessed the same tailor made elite divisions like in your example.

 

However I do agree that a division should alsways be matched by an equal tier enemy division whenever possible, just for a better chance of even footing for both teams.

Agreed, but I actually thought that divisions are being balanced/matched against each other already?

 

I mean every time I play division, there's one in the opposing side also or is that just a fluke then?

[Ouzo11]

The problem is not how good a division COULD BE.
The problem is how bad the average player IS.

[Tungstonid]

23 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Agreed, but I actually thought that divisions are being balanced/matched against each other already?

 

I mean every time I play division, there's one in the opposing side also or is that just a fluke then?

The difference in the number of divisions of both teams is never greater than one. Number of participants, skills etc are not taken into account.

[Aotearas]

Breaking news: three good players working together in a teambased multiplayer is unbalanced.

 

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again: the presence of teamwork in a division isn't unbalanced. The absence of teamwork in randoms is.

[RAHJAILARI]

3 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Breaking news: three good players working together in a teambased multiplayer is unbalanced.

 

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again: the presence of teamwork in a division isn't unbalanced. The absence of teamwork in randoms is.

OUCH!!! Who told you we wanted the truth? We can't handle the truth!!!

[WingedHussar_Adler]

9 hours ago, tobbeb17 said:

Balance problem
I think WG has to solve this balance problem in the game It is unreasonable that one team has three-division division and the other team has zero division and this means that this team that has division has great advantage I think this is a problem What do you think ?

obs gologle translatnig

i bet it is divisions fault you lost 33 planes to Minotaur 

[The_Finnster]

2 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

Breaking news: three good players working together in a teambased multiplayer is unbalanced.

 

 

I've said it before, I'll say it again: the presence of teamwork in a division isn't unbalanced. The absence of teamwork in randoms is.

This.

 

Also, I had that HAMI  div in another match on my side and they quickly coordinated our flank, promoted teamwork to such an extent that randoms who didn’t know who HAMI were actually praised them in chat and wished the game could always be this fun.

 

All this without salt.

 

 

[Aotearas]

10 minutes ago, The_Finnster said:

This.

 

Also, I had that HAMI  div in another match on my side and they quickly coordinated our flank, promoted teamwork to such an extent that randoms who didn’t know who HAMI were actually praised them in chat and wished the game could always be this fun.

 

All this without salt.

 

 

 

Must've been without Hami the man 

[Up_The_Donald]

However the MM and balance works there will always be marginal issues where the general rule doesn't apply - it's a well established principle of economics for instance.

 

There is also the human psychological factor - we are generally programmed to remember bad experiences more than good ones.  The principle being that bad experiences are, in evolutionary terms, more likely to kills us.  I really remember being chased by that Sabre Toothed Tiger and I will avoid washing my [edited]in the river the next time that huge crocodile is watching me from 5 feet away etc. 

 

The combination of this evolutionary hard wiring and internet madness is that we remember being stomped in a match, we remember the 5 game losing streak, we remember the yolo nutbar in his premium ship bought by his mommy and we remember being one-shot deleted from 25km while we were picking the fluff from our underpants.  

 

We are less likely to remember the time we one shot deleted some broadside noob or when we turned a BB into a BBQ. 

 

The cumulative effect and conclusion of all of this is that whatever MM engine is used there will always be those who just moan and whine and those people are, generally, the ones using Warpack.  

 

It's the truth - don't argue.  It's science.  

Up The Donald.

[RAHJAILARI]

Ehh, right-o there. Just one more question (even at the cost of being stupid)... What's a "Warpack"? @Up_The_Donald

[Up_The_Donald]

15 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Ehh, right-o there. Just one more question (even at the cost of being stupid)... What's a "Warpack"? @Up_The_Donald

The illegal-mod that allows mommy-boy rich kids to use pre-emption point and autoshot to do the aiming and shooting for them.  

[Tungstonid]

18 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Ehh, right-o there. Just one more question (even at the cost of being stupid)... What's a "Warpack"? @Up_The_Donald

Warpack, originally, is (was?) a WoT mod pack with ... "nice gimmicks" like making trees invisible, showing player stats, showing detroyed objects on the minimap (aka you are not spotted but I can see exactely where you are going), showing tracers, showing the direction enemies are looking (some kind of laser pointer thing IIRC), hit zones on enemy tanks, among others.

In other words: The wet dream of everyone who doesn't want to miss any advantage he can get.

[RAHJAILARI]

Holy moly guys... Sound like it'll make the game awful boring then. Always hated cheats because of that (tried some "Infinite armies and money" mods in Total War before, they completely ruined the game so I removed them all. Neva tried those kinda mods again after that) - I mean, what's the challenge then? Would lose my interest in a second.

 

 Thanks for your patience and a good explanation... @Up_The_Donald@Tungstonid

[invicta2012]

Divisions and clans can certainly be problematic. Allowing people to play socially is a good thing, but any mechanism which allows a group of people to choose which ships to bring to a random match will mean a focus on any ship which is OP /unbalanced or combinations of ships which have unbalanced mechanics, such as 3 x Lyon BB Divs, Atlanta/Belfast + PA DDs, etc. It puts more pressure on WG to get their ship and gimmick design together. 

[Redcap375]

10 hours ago, tobbeb17 said:

Balance problem
I think WG has to solve this balance problem in the game It is unreasonable that one team has three-division division and the other team has zero division and this means that this team that has division has great advantage I think this is a problem What do you think ?

g

First of all that is a great Div with a great section of ships.  Alarm bells should have been ringing on the load up screen for a CV captain.  I.e STAY AWAY FROM THAT DIV.  Both the Mino and Hindy will be AA spec, deadly to tier torp 8 planes.

 

Right..Let me see.

 

You sent 33 planes to their death against a AA spec (prob 8.4 km) Mino in a CV purple div. With the enemy CV only killing 5 planes.  Either the enemy CV didn't get a look in because the Mino killed everything or the CV wasn't that good of a player.  However, his spotting duties must have been very good as he finished 3rd.  THAT makes a good CV player.

 

The Tirp, Edinburgh, Curry, Yueyang and Shimmy are somehow still afloat? Did the whole team curl up into a ball and pushed at once? with the mino and Mont in the centre? 

 

As soon as you see a purple div like that (met C4rM4 a few days back and luckily sunk him) then stay away from both ships in that Div.  You had PLENTY of good targets there to hit.  

 

Did you see red? I mean was you hell bent on killing a ship in that area. It happens sometimes and it's frustrating.  You just gotta suck it up and pick another target m8 on the otherside of the map. as the Enemy CV only killed 5 of your planes, it kinda tells me you didn't go wide and pick off ships.  

 

They would apply the same tactics like diving the Mino straight into the cap behind a hill, right infront of your nose or bating your fighters and tighing them up.  Nothing you can do about it so stay clear.  looked like that Shimmy had a field day, telling me that you didn't really try to spot him up for the team.

 

Please correct me if i'm wrong and only speculating.  Analyse the game and take points away from it.  As your a Midway player i'm sure you already do and hopefully half a decent player (you have hidden stats).

 

Our team last night had the worst tier 10 CV player (Hak) I have ever seen in 5 years of playing this game.  30% WR in CV's, didn't have Air Supremacy skill and drove straight into the middle cap! .

 

Are Div's a problem?

 

No, it's teamwork play.  It's one of the only things that keeps me interested in the game.  I don't think I could carry on going solo constantly as the rage would overtake me . like someone has already said, there are some CRAP divs out there and when 3 are knocking around in BB's, it's not a warm fuzzy feeling right from the bat.

 

What i think is more of a problem is the skill difference of players.  So many times you have one side with solid players with good stats (important ones) and the other with one or two with the rest, well, not so good.  Even if your in the winning team it's not a great feeling annihilating a team and only losing one ship (like yesterday).  How having 6 solid typhoon players with ranks 1-5 in one team against a team with no more than 55% WR is beyond me.  Oh well, these things happen but it's not easy for some players.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tungstonid]

5 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

Divisions and clans can certainly be problematic. Allowing people to play socially is a good thing, but any mechanism which allows a group of people to choose which ships to bring to a random match will mean a focus on any ship which is OP /unbalanced or combinations of ships which have unbalanced mechanics, such as 3 x Lyon BB Divs, Atlanta/Belfast + PA DDs, etc. It puts more pressure on WG to get their ship and gimmick design together. 

You will have OP/unbalanced ships no matter if you have divisions or not. The difference between three random players and three division players playing Atlanta + Belfast + PA DD is merely the teamwork they can muster, hence playing the ships to their full potential (assuming that the three players in a division are competent enough to do so). And this is, as others said, not a problem regarding divisions but regarding general teamplay. Ships should not be balanced based on what they could do when played in a division because first off, most players probably don't play division anyway. Secondly, you don't have a guarantee that division players are a) competent enough to play it and b) form an "OP division" in the first place.

[Redcap375]

30 minutes ago, RAHJAILARI said:

Holy moly guys... Sound like it'll make the game awful boring then. Always hated cheats because of that (tried some "Infinite armies and money" mods in Total War before, they completely ruined the game so I removed them all. Neva tried those kinda mods again after that) - I mean, what's the challenge then? Would lose my interest in a second.

 

 Thanks for your patience and a good explanation... @Up_The_Donald@Tungstonid

 

I've not used one mod to-date.  Hate them as it gives another player an advantage in a game that should be equal footing and fair . But i know alot of players who do and they are normally found in very high win rates.  It's a way of life for them. it's only human nature I suppose, people always try to get an edge.  I know alot of people will disagree and i can already see their point-of-view but in my mind, it's still wrong.  

 

Everyone should be on equal footing from the start.

 

It's just not very English is it chaps