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Colonel_Boom

Too many T10 ships driving around

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Hello captains,

 

i notice more and more that there is a preference towards playing T10 ships in this game. I don't think that it was that bad a year or two ago. If you jump into a T8 nowadays you seem to have a very high chance of being bottom tier. I remember WoT having high repair costs in T9 and T10(even good players could only prevent loosing money consistently) in addition to MM changes to prevent this from happening. But in WoWs you can actually make lots of money in high tiers. I think that WoWs should at the very least change its MM a bit. If there are many T10 in the queue then put them preferably against other T10, so that T8 and T9 ships get more consistent matchups. What do you think?

 

MfG Boom

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Especially my hipper seems to get that matchmaking, can´t remember the last time being top tier in it.

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This is somewhat inevitable because obviously T10's have no 11's or 12's to play against.

 

...this is also an issue, like many others, that'd be fixed by +1/-1 MM...

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8 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Maybe increase cost of playing tier 10s?

While I have only limited experience with it, this does not seem to do much in case of WoT for example.

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[BLITZ]
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My bet is on Halsey. You can use a T8 or T9, but I guess it's easier in T10s.

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32 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Maybe increase cost of playing tier 10s?

Nope. T10 is fun because there are more tactical choices - among other things because of more consumable slots. I would feel ribbed off if I had grinded to T10 and then could not afford to play my ships, what's the point then... I do see the problem with MM especially at tier 8 (hated grinding through that tier myself), but do not think the solution is to limit play at T10 as a good idea.

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has to do with the camouflage available T10 (50% exp reduction + 20% credits!), that makes playing T10 more attractive than say T8 + T9: everyone likes to get something out of it after a battle (credits=nice). must say there are quite a lot of T8 I would like to play more often, but then again, even when playing good battles those ships dont give ya anything after battle (anyway, not much credits). take for instance PanAsian line: ship I like the most is Chung Mu (IX)..but...that ships doesnt pay out...so..I prefer the YueYang (X) with the special camo.

 

what i mean to say: make available camo's 5000 dubloens also for t8 + T9 (= 50% cost red. + 20% credits) and in that case I know for sure I would play the Chung Mu (with special camo) and also lots of other T8 + T9 ships would be very attractive for playing for me.

 

so, in short, imo, its all about the good camo which only gets available at tier 10. i would like such camo's being available for the T8 + T9, would much like that, But then again there must be sound reason atm why they dont atm.

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34 minuty temu, Culiacan_Mexico napisał:

Give tier 10 the same MM as tier 1.  They can play with themselves.

Yeah, something like mm t11 (T9-10) and t12 (T10s only)

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this problem would be resolved with the introduction of tier 11 and 12 battle tiers, like it was in wows 1 years ago and prior

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1 hour ago, Colonel_Boom said:

I don't think that it was that bad a year or two ago.

Presumably, it also has to do with a more mature player base i.e. even a year ago, fewer people had completed the grind to Tier 10?

 

I'm somewhere near my first T10, and I don't think I've been playing a year yet; assuming the player base has grown (Steam release etc.), and most people are a bit more diligent than I am, the number of potential T10 players should have increased.

 

Also, with Ranked requiring T10s, and the upcoming clan thing, there is now a stronger motivation to play T10 too (plus, with Ranked finished, a potential sump for T10 ships has gone)...?

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There's several reasons for me why I'd like to play T8 ships over T9 and particularly T10s. For one at T8, ships are not such bricks and can maneuver quite nicely in comparison. Then you get a lot of truly beatiful historical designs on lower tiers in general. And at last while not the least, T8 is about it where you can play without losing credits when not having premium and various economic boosts (signals, camos, ...).

But all that gets bloody frustrating when you keep facing T10 ships in your noticeably weaker T8s. And it's not rare to even find yourself one of very few singular T8s in such a match.

 

Hell, I might even be for nerfing Tier 10* ship gains at this point. Or increasing their repair costs once more, maybe even to previous levels. That annoyed I get at the current MM.

 

 

 

For now I'd like to keep nerfs/balancing away from T9. Those are ships that generally don't get played too much (outside from Missouri/Musashi/Kronstadt) and you still need to grind.

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18 hours ago, Toivia said:

There's several reasons for me why I'd like to play T8 ships over T9 and particularly T10s. For one at T8, ships are not such bricks and can maneuver quite nicely in comparison. Then you get a lot of truly beatiful historical designs on lower tiers in general. And at last while not the least, T8 is about it where you can play without losing credits when not having premium and various economic boosts (signals, camos, ...).

But all that gets bloody frustrating when you keep facing T10 ships in your noticeably weaker T8s. And it's not rare to even find yourself one of very few singular T8s in such a match.

Those are reasons valid for ALL tiers between 5 and 8, not only for 8. The +/-2 tier MM simply makes games unfair. It is a stick which pushes the masses into grinding and paying and rushing towards "safe again" T9 (-1 only possible) or T10 (guaranteed top tier ALWAYS). Power jump from T9 to T10 is too big though, and MM for T9 most often places them in T8-T10 games anyway, so there is no reason to play significantly weaker T9 while having access to T10. And this makes T8 life even more miserable. 

 

Matchmaking is a failure. As usual direct money income wins with game quality in general. Very shortsighted thinking. The only solution is to "protect" all tiers with +/-1 MM.

 

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20 hours ago, SeeteufeI said:

My bet is on Halsey. You can use a T8 or T9, but I guess it's easier in T10s.

 

It is almost certainly because of this.

 

Hasn't nearly been long enough for the throngs to burn out on the campaign yet, so I'd be expecting lots of down-tiering for 8s for at least a few more weeks. That said, WoT does have mono-t10 matches that I think should be a thing here too, +2/-2 MM is fine in warships and I've personally never had a problem with it, but if the MM detects a balloon of ships of a particular tier, it should be allowed to make a mono-tiered match. One of those every dozen games or so won't ruin ship diversity for me, and would go a long way to helping people's subjective sense of entitlement with "always being bottom tier".

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Well something has to be done for sure about mm. Especially for future.

 

Imagine, if more lines of ships are going to be introduced it is near to impossible to balance them to the point where one ship won't be significantly stronger from other even on the same tier not to mention tier or two higher. Therefore, total stomps are going to be even more common and it is going to be a total RNG fest of which team is going to get better ships. Even now just by looking at team composition at the beginning of a match you can with high chance predict which team is going to win. Sometimes I'm surprised but the ammount of times I am right is really scary.

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When I started playing over 2 years ago the T10 economy was so bad that most players lost money in every match so to "fund" their T10 habit they played lots of T7-8 games. Now with perma-camos with -50% costs, changed game economy and new signals/camos etc it's much easier to play T10 games and never lose money - It's even possible to break even in Co-Op now!

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I'd really like WG to implement a similar kind of MM template as in Wot, except it being inverted in priority and adapted to teams of 12 (so basically MM first looks for 8 bottom and 4 top tiers in a +/- 1 spread, then for 12 equal tiered ships, then for 2 top tier, 4 mid tier and 6 bottom tier ships with the current +/- 2 MM) 

So basically they'd just take all the tier 10s and either dump them into tier 9 games, but since not that many people play tier 9, they'd probably just fight only other tier 10s with the occasional lower tier ship.

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22 hours ago, jss78 said:

This is somewhat inevitable because obviously T10's have no 11's or 12's to play against.

 

...this is also an issue, like many others, that'd be fixed by +1/-1 MM...

Add battle tiers 11 and 12 (Tier 9 and tier 10, tier 10 only) to the MM and problem solved.

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[TROLL]
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It's because of the last added campaigne ! why do a mission on tier 8,when you can do it on tier 10 ........blame wargamming..........they have not giving this a lot of thought...like allwayes....nothing new !

 

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4 hours ago, Panocek said:

Add battle tiers 11 and 12 (Tier 9 and tier 10, tier 10 only) to the MM and problem solved.

 

True. I somewhat wonder if the current system favouring T10 is by design though. Gotta give people an incentive to grind.

 

If T8's got a "fair" MM, I'm kind of dubious I would've ever advanced beyond that.

 

I'm pretty sure getting to play top tier all the time is a big reason why T10 is so popular, though few would admit to it.

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6 hours ago, EdiJo said:

Those are reasons valid for ALL tiers between 5 and 8, not only for 8. The +/-2 tier MM simply makes games unfair. It is a stick which pushes the masses into grinding and paying and rushing towards "safe again" T9 (-1 only possible) or T10 (guaranteed top tier ALWAYS). Power jump from T9 to T10 is too big though, and MM for T9 most often places them in T8-T10 games anyway, so there is no reason to play significantly weaker T9 while having access to T10. And this makes T8 life even more miserable. 

 

Matchmaking is a failure. As usual direct money income wins with game quality in general. Very shortsighted thinking. The only solution is to "protect" all tiers with +/-1 MM.

 

Yes, MM more willing to compose teams with only one tier (or no tier) difference would be awesome. I don't entirely want it to be definitive as that could make waiting times at some hours long and would decrease variability long term. But having only one tier battles every once in a while would be bloody fine, particularly during rush hours, when you're thrown in battle the second you click "Battle".

 

Just a note though, while +2 tier MM can always be maddening, somehow in the lower tiers (5-6), it's not subjectively as bad as with T8 for me. That might be caused by a more friendly map selection (not so huge open water maps), sometimes less skilled players and not such a huge performance gap usually. For Tier 7 I can't really say because as far as I remember, I've enjoyed the typical idyllic almost always top tier MM.

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17 minutes ago, jss78 said:

 

True. I somewhat wonder if the current system favouring T10 is by design though. Gotta give people an incentive to grind.

 

If T8's got a "fair" MM, I'm kind of dubious I would've ever advanced beyond that.

 

I'm pretty sure getting to play top tier all the time is a big reason why T10 is so popular, though few would admit to it.

In World of Tanks when I was playing tier 10 was popular, but battletiers above 10 kept things in check. At some point WG removed these extra battletiers, which had lesser impact than in WoWs due to way larger playerbase, then introduced 3/5/7 MM, with grand battles (30v30 of T10 only) to clear up queues.

 

In WoWs we had reduction in cost for hightier boats, then permanent premium paints with considerable economy gains and no wonder T10 is popular if you can play them all the time, breaking old design of "play midtiers to fund hightiers"

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At this point, even if I know we'll never see such a thing I'd like to see WG refund the permacamos and remove them from the game again.

 

I admit I also jumped on the train when they first appeared but considering the situation of no penalty to play T10 as we had before things are getting out of hand with distribution of players through the tiers and it ended being one of the worst ideas this game had. I honestly at this point would be in favor or removing the camos from the game even having paid for some of them myself.

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