AI doesn't have "rendering delay" and targets you instantly

[EdiJo]

Example: my Arizona charging bot DD which hid in the smoke after having 50hp left from eating full salvo at close range. Charging... getting undetected... charging... charging... Yes: map icon appeared.

1 second, 2 seconds, 3 seconds... DD appeared, and so appeared his torps already in the water, which already did 1/3 of their way into me.  I of course shot him in the same second, and of course ate the torps, and I survived because I suspected that AI will cheat. 

 

I can understand that the bot has his torps perfectly pre-aimed: OK, some good player could guess the direction to the charging enemy. But, FFS, give a player equal chances when detecting each other, OK? If I have rendering delay, so should the bot. 

In the same situation vs human player I often manage to click the DD without him being able to target me and launch torps. 

 

Sure, the bots can be made good, but this is simply cheating. Maphack, wallhack, smokehack, you call it. Any solution, WG? @Crysantos @MrConway

[orzel286]

Gib bots more hax, make them play better than super unis, buff standard coop income, so players can enjoy their 45% wr and "NERF BOTS" topics. DO IT WARGAMING. JUST. DO IT.

 

#MAKE_COOP_GREAT_AT_LAST

[wilkatis_LV]

22 minutes ago, EdiJo said:

AI (..) targets you instantly

You yourself target-lock the enemy (player or bot) as soon as he's spotted (a.k.a. appears on your minimap) if you are looking towards them.

 

Easiest to see with torps selected (and since you aim by the gray thingy you don't ever need to see the ship to launch them), but you can also notice it by your camera locking on the target when you have guns selected (especially if both of you are going in opposite directions at relatively close distances).

[Juanx]

Bots always know your position regardless of spotting, easiest way to notice is CV planes beelining for the capping DD.

[ColonelPete]

1 hour ago, Juanx said:

Bots always know your position regardless of spotting, easiest way to notice is CV planes beelining for the capping DD.

Yeah, some people claim that. Not that capping is any form of hint about the presence of an enemy ship...

 

Bots and secondaries react the moment spotting is established, independent of rendering.

In a game yesterday my secondaries started shooting at a target that was shown on the minimap for a very short moment, but was never rendered.

[Exocet6951]

33 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Yeah, some people claim that. Not that capping is any form of hint about the presence of an enemy ship...

 

Bots and secondaries react the moment spotting is established, independent of rendering.

 

 

Alright, let's put that to the test...

TO THE TRAINING ROOM!

setup:

10 minute Benson against CV

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

Spawn:

Spoiler

 

Where I'm heading:

Spoiler

 

First enemy plane contact:

Spoiler

 

 

Notice the plane still steering towards me despite me heading along the white line, having never been spotted nor having a good reason to be there:

Spoiler

 

 

 

As always, good credibility.

You keep on trying to prove people wrong despite being demonstrably wrong.
It's only your second time today 

[ColonelPete]

Why is he sending only one squad if he knows where you are?

[Exocet6951]

8 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Why is he sending only one squad if he knows where you are?

 

He sent more.
I just didn't bother taking a full match's worth of screenshots just for the purpose of a short proof of concept and giving you enough doubt to go test out yourself.

 

 

So, try it out yourself.
5 minutes of work.

[lup3s]

But who cares anyway ? They're just bots .. EZ kills

[BrusilovX]

53 minutes ago, lup3s said:

But who cares anyway ? They're just bots .. EZ kills

When I first started to play there were a number of games where our team lost to the BOTs.

 

The first game I had in my Musashi (co-op) our team lost - mainly because the BOT CV was better than our CV player (who wasn't a BOT).

 

[Culiacan_Mexico]

Easy kills, well not for me because I am not that good.  I have yet to kill all eight bots in a single match, while I have got very close... I just have not made it happen.  Hope spring eternal! 

[_Robertas_]

5 hours ago, EdiJo said:

Example: my Arizona charging bot DD which hid in the smoke after having 50hp left from eating full salvo at close range. Charging... getting undetected... charging... charging... Yes: map icon appeared.

1 second, 2 seconds, 3 seconds... DD appeared, and so appeared his torps already in the water, which already did 1/3 of their way into me.  I of course shot him in the same second, and of course ate the torps, and I survived because I suspected that AI will cheat. 

 

I can understand that the bot has his torps perfectly pre-aimed: OK, some good player could guess the direction to the charging enemy. But, FFS, give a player equal chances when detecting each other, OK? If I have rendering delay, so should the bot. 

In the same situation vs human player I often manage to click the DD without him being able to target me and launch torps. 

 

Sure, the bots can be made good, but this is simply cheating. Maphack, wallhack, smokehack, you call it. Any solution, WG? @Crysantos @MrConway

That's why i would replace all players in my team with 11 bots any day.

talking about bots......oh.....

 

[ColonelPete]

2 hours ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

He sent more.
I just didn't bother taking a full match's worth of screenshots just for the purpose of a short proof of concept and giving you enough doubt to go test out yourself.

 

 

So, try it out yourself.
5 minutes of work.

Well, it helps if you do sit at spawn position. The CV sends his planes there.

 

Then this happens:

 

Spoiler

 

 

Spoiler

 

Squadron flies by...

 

See, the CV is not programmed to take caps as other ships. That means he can only win by sinking enemies. Since bots are not smart, they need some help. Therefore the CV is programmed to send his planes towards the spawn, but he does not really know your position, otherwise the squadron would fly directly towards you. Unfortunately, if you are not a spawn, the bot gets another hint from the game, sending his next squadron towards the general direction you are moving. Still not knowing where you are.

 

Now, another test with DD vs three BB bots.

BB bots are programmed to take caps, they do not need hints.

See how they are moving in my direction?

 

Spoiler

 

See how well they evade my torps as soon as I launch them?

 

Spoiler

Or not...

 

Spoiler

 

See how fast they are moving to sink me when their objectives are met? How well they evade my torp spread?

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

[Exocet6951]

17 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Well, it helps if you do sit at spawn position. The CV sends his planes there

 

"Sit at spawn"
I was moving parallel to the white line, and moving next to C, and you clearly see the planes heading towards me.
 

But hey, it took a whole 1 post for you to go for the "see it didn't happen that one time so it never happens" argument.

 

Disingenuous.

[ColonelPete]

You sat at spawn, you barely moved. The squadron moved to your spawn position and spotted you then.

You moved one square to the east and a fith square north. You air spotting range is larger than one square...

[orzel286]

Torp bombers flied directly through A, seen seconds later, didn't bother taking a screenshot

Hm.

Very.

Interesting.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

The AI CVs know where you are and will generally target the closes ships, but not always for unknown reasons.  The AI ships also know where the closes ship is and will plot and intercept course, but not always.  Some bots act oddly on occasion.  

 

Bots need the buff, but you can use it against them.

[ColonelPete]

55 minutes ago, Culiacan_Mexico said:

The AI CVs know where you are and will generally target the closes ships, but not always for unknown reasons.  The AI ships also know where the closes ship is and will plot and intercept course, but not always.   

...

Obviously not...

[Culiacan_Mexico]

29 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Obviously not...

How many games have you played in Coop?  That is right 125.  Please stop showing your ignorance.

[ColonelPete]

Thanks to someone like you, I tested the Bots quite intensly. The results can be seen above.

 

When Bot BB sit motionless in a cap while an enemy DD is sailing around them, they do not seem to know where you are and what you do and especially they have no idea what they should do. That is some weak Bot programming.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

5 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Thanks to someone like you, I tested the Bots quite intensly. The results can be seen above.

 

When Bot BB sit motionless in a cap while an enemy DD is sailing around them, they do not seem to know where you are and what you do and especially they have no idea what they should do. That is some weak Bot programming.

Play a thousand game of coop and get back to me.  Try to actually get some experience... try to learn.

 

People like you... a know it all, with no knowledge.

[ColonelPete]

Look at the pictures!

Does that look like they know where I am?

[Culiacan_Mexico]

9 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

Look at the pictures!

Does that look like they know where I am?

Play coop, get some experience.  Try taking a DD, get in front of your team, get closes to the bots, maintain concealment and then try to flank.  They will follow you, until another 'target' changes their pattern.

 

Bot programming in coop is fairly basic. 

 

 

MrConway - Co-op is really meant to be a bit of a training and testing ground, for proper PvE we recommend operations :)

[ColonelPete]

So you ignore arguments?

Too bad. Live in your fantasy castle.

[Culiacan_Mexico]

19 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

So you ignore arguments?

Too bad. Live in your fantasy castle.

You ignore experience, and refuse to actually try it yourself... because you mind was already made up.  A closed mind.

 

What makes you think the AI programming in coop, operation, etc all work the same?

 

...and since you don't play coop, why do you care?