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Oldschool_Gaming_YT

Current state of the game and where it's headed (all the radars)

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Regarding the subject of Flambass video.

 

 

I didnt see any thread that talked about this exact topic so i created this one because i wanted to get your opinion on this matter. I feel like Flambass hit the nail on the head in this video. I feel pretty much the same as he does. Im not a DD-main by any stretch, i play BBs and cruisers just as much. But like Flambass says they have everything to their disposal (HP, armour, range, heals, radars, hydros etc etc.) and thay can stay at range doing massive amounts of damage and kills without ever risking their ships and health. Then we have destroyers, smallest most fragile ships in the game that up to this point also could take massive damage from a BB AP shell, lazy BB drivers didnt even have to change ammo type to wreck a DD. With all the new US cruisers and with all the old cruisers you can run into a stealthy high tier US cruiser and suddenly be in their 30-40-50 second radar where all enemy team uses you as a pinata!

 

This is starting to become a issue, specially since every lazy and scared BB and cruiser driver in the game demand you as a destroyer should push into the caps all match long while 5-6 US cruisers are lurking behind the islands.

 

I dont want to write a wall of text here, i just want to get the ball rolling, but i want to know what you feel about this? Because i had to seriously change up my gameplay in a DD since the first split (Cleveland) happened, and its just gonna get worse. What are you gonna do as a DD in a 3 cap domination game with 3 Worshesters and 3-4 Des moines, Buffalos, Clevelands etc etc on the enemy team? Not to talk about the CVs, hydros, spotterplanes, DD hydros and radars etc etc......

No DD captain in their right mind will go for any caps!! So DDs will start playing the flanks, well out of US/Russian radar range trying to atleast do some damage. I see a lot of Asashio, Shima, Gearing in my future. Its gonna be fun to catch all the rage and reports from the team just because you dont want to suicide in to the caps?!

 

So i actually would love to see WG take away all the domination games and just have standard battles if they are gonna continue down this line (this is almost a joke but sadly isnt), we all now what a huge misstake for gameplay that would have been. But seriously? Or maybe have 3 caps dom game only on Ocean map? So those 4-5-6 US cruisers actually had to take the same risk as the DDs to push in and radar them! But ..... naaah..... we dont want the poor cruisers with their defensive AA, hydros, radars, armour, heals etc. to take any risks do we?

 

 

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Flambass makes a good point.

DD's are just gonna have to adapt and play the flanks, not ideal but no other option really !

Capping will be done when a large group push together into a cap or when the enemy dont contest a cap.

Players will adapt or fail !

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Hm. I'm divided on the issue. Once the interest in us cls ebbs down again we will have a clear picture. I don't feel dds are in a horrible spot right now. The only problem with radar is its current abundance. A dm or Moskva here or there is not really an issue, neither is their radar duration. It only becomes a problem if people chain radar. Should that become a trend dm radar duration should be cut down a fair bit. 

 

We had a trend when wg released cruiser hunter after cruiser hunter, then came the aa monsters, and now dds get balanced with hammer and sickle. 

 

Flanking isn't bad at all. And in all fairness, delaying capping will actually make games longer and prevent the five minute stomps we have seen. 

 

I don't see a real issue. Yet. 

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9 minutes ago, bouncer8409 said:

Flambass makes a good point.

DD's are just gonna have to adapt and play the flanks, not ideal but no other option really !

Capping will be done when a large group push together into a cap or when the enemy dont contest a cap.

Players will adapt or fail !

 

Yeah, the problem is that the team will never understand this and you will catch a ton of crap and reports just because you dont wanna YOLO/suicide in. But then again Karma is good for absolutely nothing.

8 minutes ago, aboomination said:

This was already discussed on the forums.

Ok, i couldnt find any recent, i only found someone talking about some counterradar/interference mechanic.

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As written in the OTHER discussionS about this topic, the number of radar ships in game increased by 2 last patch...

And that the cruiser hype is already ending (until next patch), should be obvious.

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3 minutes ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

Hm. I'm divided on the issue. Once the interest in us cls ebbs down again we will have a clear picture. I don't feel dds are in a horrible spot right now. The only problem with radar is its current abundance. A dm or Moskva here or there is not really an issue, neither is their radar duration. It only becomes a problem if people chain radar. Should that become a trend dm radar duration should be cut down a fair bit. 

 

We had a trend when wg released cruiser hunter after cruiser hunter, then came the aa monsters, and now dds get balanced with hammer and sickle. 

 

Flanking isn't bad at all. And in all fairness, delaying capping will actually make games longer and prevent the five minute stomps we have seen. 

 

I don't see a real issue. Yet. 

Ok, yes, i agree that it may be to early to call yet. but im concerned about the way the game is heading. I feel like it was a conscious decision by WG to implement deep water torps and the Asashio because there is 100 ways for ordinary torps to get spotted in the game and soon there will be 100 ways for DDs to be pretty much permaspotted by radars if you even think about getting close to a cap.

 

I just fear the day i happen to run into a Worchester in the open seas. Not even a super unicum DD player can avoid or survive that i feel.

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4 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

As written in the OTHER discussionS about this topic, the number of radar ships in game increased by 2 last patch...

And that the cruiser hype is already ending (until next patch), should be obvious.

I really hope you are right, because with the upcoming patch/es i see a lot of new and old players starting to grind the new alternative US line and also the guys who is still grinding the Des Moines is gonna play the game, which of course will mean a whole lot of 30-40-55 sec duration radars, so i dont really see the hype going away any time soon.

 

And is Grozovoi radar still a thing or were they gonna change it to heal instead?

 

Anyways, its gonna be even more interesting times playing a DD in the future. Thank god i have my 20k torp spamming Asashio as a backup plan.....

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I don't think it's that bad yet, but it's certainly an issue and I think the game might become less dynamic if the trend continues. C/D cap in northern lights, you always have a radar ship behind the island. The maps are designed with certain spots where fairly fragile cruisers are supposed to sit and cover a cap with radar.

 

I almost wish for procedurally generated maps to solve this. Maps new for all and strategies have to form on the spot. Radar cruisers would have to take more risks to find good spots to radar from.

 

I wonder if Worchester will keep Cleveland's hard-to-hit citadel..?

Grozo seems to get heal instead of radar.

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18 minutes ago, Oldschool_Gaming_YT said:

I really hope you are right, because with the upcoming patch/es i see a lot of new and old players starting to grind the new alternative US line and also the guys who is still grinding the Des Moines is gonna play the game, which of course will mean a whole lot of 30-40-55 sec duration radars, so i dont really see the hype going away any time soon.

 

And is Grozovoi radar still a thing or were they gonna change it to heal instead?

 

Anyways, its gonna be even more interesting times playing a DD in the future. Thank god i have my 20k torp spamming Asashio as a backup plan.....

Just use the minimap...

 

Played a DD on North yesterday, on which radar ships are very strong.

Enemy had a Donskoi, a DM and two Minotaur. I went C. Because of the radar I did not plan to go into the cap immediately. Then the Donskoi was spotted at A and since it did not seem that many enemies were close to C, I went into C anyway.

Then their DM was spotted near B, 10.6 km from me. That was close, but his bow was pointing away from me. I stayed in C and capped. I even reversed deeper into the cap to spot enemies to the north. I saw a Minotaur getting closer and then I moved out because I could not know if he had radar. When he smoked up, I braked and stayed in cap.

 

They are two ways to cap vs radar.

  • the cap is open, and you know that the radar ships are not in range
  • the cap is surrounded by islands, but there are no or not enough ships around the cap that could shoot at you, getting radared then is no problem

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1 hour ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

And in all fairness, delaying capping will actually make games longer

But don't reward you, if you stay ten minutes contesting cap, you don't get any extra point.

If you get reward for every capture point that you denied at the other team, people will (probably) contest cap often.

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4 minutes ago, the_crow_96 said:

But don't reward you, if you stay ten minutes contesting cap, you don't get any extra point.

If you get reward for every capture point that you denied at the other team, people will (probably) contest cap often.

I think you do. Not sure about the amount.

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I did say that when the US line was introduced it will get all the consumables, ironic, that its only now that there is some disturbance rising.

Rooster has the potential of beying a multy task ship, but i think it should be the players choice how to play it, not straight up pop all consumables, 'rape' an island by denying enemy 1 cap.

The number of consumables must be lowered to standart 2-3, with something beying sacrificed over the other for player to choose a playstile, esentially DAA or radar, and foremost, the Radar duration must not last over 30sec with every possible mods and upgrades for ALL ships that have it.

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1 hour ago, Oldschool_Gaming_YT said:

Regarding the subject of Flambass video.

 

 

"...No DD captain in their right mind will go for any caps!!" So DDs will start playing the flanks..."

 

 

I definitely see DD game play changing. Not only for myself but also when observing other DDs. I can of cause only speak for the battles I've been in, but I see much  more defensive DD play. Hesitating to cap, flanking etc. Its definitely possible to adapt to all the radars, but - for me - it's less fun as much of a battle is about identifying where the radar ships are and running circles to avoid them. At least for me it's  making the battles much less dynamic and even boring at times. Have had several battles where I have been the only DD trying to cap (and that's playing Asassio), to little avail other than maybe getting one cap and losing at lot of HP just to see the other DDs wander off to the outskits of the map running circles hoping to be able to make a little damage mid to late game...

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1 hour ago, loppantorkel said:

I don't think it's that bad yet, but it's certainly an issue and I think the game might become less dynamic if the trend continues. C/D cap in northern lights, you always have a radar ship behind the island. The maps are designed with certain spots where fairly fragile cruisers are supposed to sit and cover a cap with radar.

 

I almost wish for procedurally generated maps to solve this. Maps new for all and strategies have to form on the spot. Radar cruisers would have to take more risks to find good spots to radar from.

 

I wonder if Worchester will keep Cleveland's hard-to-hit citadel..?

Grozo seems to get heal instead of radar.

Procedural maps would be great fun I think - and not only because of the radar menace. The variation would be fun I think, but it would likely be very, very hard to generate balanced maps that way...

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1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

 

Just use the minimap...

 

Played a DD on North yesterday, on which radar ships are very strong.

Enemy had a Donskoi, a DM and two Minotaur. I went C. Because of the radar I did not plan to go into the cap immediately. Then the Donskoi was spotted at A and since it did not seem that many enemies were close to C, I went into C anyway.

Then their DM was spotted near B, 10.6 km from me. That was close, but his bow was pointing away from me. I stayed in C and capped. I even reversed deeper into the cap to spot enemies to the north. I saw a Minotaur getting closer and then I moved out because I could not know if he had radar. When he smoked up, I braked and stayed in cap.

 

They are two ways to cap vs radar.

  • the cap is open, and you know that the radar ships are not in range
  • the cap is surrounded by islands, but there are no or not enough ships around the cap that could shoot at you, getting radared then is no problem

 

Thats because you are a God of WOWS.

You are the one that can look at the minimap, and see the ship that wasn't yet spotted.
I bet you have 90% WR in your DDs. Maybe even higher.
 

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1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

 

Just use the minimap...

 

 

Except we're getting radar ships that you not gonna detect before the can pinpoint you with radar - i.e. radar significantly out ranges cruiser detectability. Use minimap, absolutely but this is getting ludicrous, you're gonna have to to play RTS style, eyes on mini map at all times. 

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8 minutes ago, Wildf1re said:

Except we're getting radar ships that you not gonna detect before the can pinpoint you with radar - i.e. radar significantly out ranges cruiser detectability. Use minimap, absolutely but this is getting ludicrous, you're gonna have to to play RTS style, eyes on mini map at all times. 

The good players have eyes on the minimap all the time. How do you spot enemies that pop up on your flank otherwise?

 

As I said in the other threads, radar ships in the open should be sunk radar ships.

If that does not happen, the radar is not the problem, your team is for failing at focus fire or not be in position.

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1 hour ago, Wildf1re said:

Procedural maps would be great fun I think - and not only because of the radar menace. The variation would be fun I think, but it would likely be very, very hard to generate balanced maps that way...

Almost as hard as to balance teams?

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1 hour ago, Wildf1re said:

Except we're getting radar ships that you not gonna detect before the can pinpoint you with radar - i.e. radar significantly out ranges cruiser detectability. Use minimap, absolutely but this is getting ludicrous, you're gonna have to to play RTS style, eyes on mini map at all times. 

Worcester's shaping up to be a bad joke, 40 seconds radar, boost that up to 56 with the special module, radar range > detection and 350,000 HE DPM, basically the moment you spot one you die.

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54 minutes ago, ColonelPete said:

The good players have eyes on the minimap all the time. How do you spot enemies that pop up on your flank otherwise?

 

As I said in the other threads, radar ships in the open should be sunk radar ships.

If that does not happen, the radar is not the problem, your team is for failing at focus fire or not be in position.

Yes mini map is important and always relevant. And yes radar is getting to be a problem, the sheer amount of radar capable ships and duration - more ships getting them, duration buffs coming its getting ludicrous. I used to have the opinion that, while nor particular fond of radar, its was not being a real problem, looking at whats happening I have changed my mind. So yes, I believe radar is a becoming problem.

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37 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Almost as hard as to balance teams?

he, yea probably. Then again if maps are randomly generated unbalanced maps might not be a big issues as RNG would ensure you'd get a taste of maps both in and out of your favor - but this is getting off topic :)... Thing is, with current maps and adding conditions for effective use of radars it's getting to be "play by numbers" where you need to typical memorize placements for radarships adding to the staleness of game play.

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49 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

Worcester's shaping up to be a bad joke, 40 seconds radar, boost that up to 56 with the special module, radar range > detection and 350,000 HE DPM, basically the moment you spot one you die.

I agree on this. Worchester will be the biggest pain in the [edited]for most of the ships in TX with that masive DPM, radar, concealment and other crap he have.

He need nerf and yet WG even buff him more...

 

When that crap come to game, dont blame the BB's for not pushing in.

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11 minutes ago, Hades_warrior said:

I agree on this. Worchester will be the biggest pain in the [edited]for most of the ships in TX with that masive DPM, radar, concealment and other crap he have.

He need nerf and yet WG even buff him more...

 

When that crap come to game, dont blame the BB's for not pushing in.

Agree with the first part, but if I'm not mistaken she doesn't have torps, so what bbs really should go is push that thing. Also: Moskva, Kronstadt and Stalingrad will eat lt up alive. 

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4 hours ago, Oldschool_Gaming_YT said:

I just fear the day i happen to run into a Worchester in the open seas. Not even a super unicum DD player can avoid or survive that i feel.

I doubt it. The shell velocity makes up for the high rof. Add to that the low calibre and she will be more of a nuisance than a threat. Same as a dm at 9.5ish km. Yes she will score some hits, but that should be about it. 

 

If you happen to have her feel free to PM me so we can test this. That is if regular unicum suffices ;).

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