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Hannibalurg

Battleship AP on DD's nerf to early?

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DD mains should most likely not read or comment on this thread. 

 

Is the so commonly called "nerf" to BB's AP vs Destroyers nerf comming to early?

 

If we take a look at the state of the game. Currently BB's have the least effective to impact the outcome of a match. Both Flamu and Notser have pointed this out in different videos. Reason behind this is that BB's can't really do much all by themself. Battleships are dependant on support from DD, CA and CV. 

 

Currently CA meta is sitting behind islands and spamming HE of anyone who dares be spotted. 

Current CV meta is that CV's are barely seen. When seen its very often premiums or afk the first minutes of the game. By far CV's and BB's seems to be the most AFK players at the start of the game. 

Current DD meta is to avoid radar. 

 

My biggest issue comming from a DD/BB perspective is that our support vessels (CA) are not really supporting nothing, its all about sitting behind islands and start fires. The first thing we see in a battle is that every CA is rushing to the nearest island and sitting there for the most of the game, ignoring flanks and caps. 

 

If i play DD i can spot for days and not getting any spotting damage done. Often i have sneaked around and spot half their flank from behind, just avoiding sending torps and doing damage, for the simple reason of keeping half the enemy team spotted, and keep them looking for me. (ofcourse doesn't work that great in CV games), but my team are not pushing. Just camping and waiting for one of the sides to do something. The team that got 2 caps early on ends up winning even if they get impatient after 10 minutes and start suiciding. 

 

TL;DR: Nerfing the ability for BB's to deal with DD's with the current lacklustered CA meta, huge campfiesta, will just make it extremely easy to play DD, might even reduce number of BB's pr game and introducing more DD's, that eventually will end up with more people playing radar ships. Won't that destroy the DD gameplay after it has ruined the BB gameplay? I think this change comes at a time where the current state of the game will propell the gameplay into a less entertaining direction.

 

Or am i just overthinking how it will change the game? Right now i find it hard to enjoy the game in both BB and DD. And i don't really like cruisers, i got 1 cruiser and i play her for income (Prinz Eugen), with a cruiser like that you don't camp behind an island. 

 

My current veiw on the game meta:

 

fd4.gif

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hell no, just no.

You are looking it from the wrong perspective, bbs are the most powerful class of the game and the easiest one to play with, if not, it wouldn't be the most played class, by far , on the server.

You want to know why cruiser stay behind an island or at 18 kms from the flank? because right now if a bbs look at you wrong you die, and you can angle whatever you want, they will lolpen you to death.

This change will make it so that dds don't get nuked by the class that they should be the hard counter against, and in the meanwhile will make 203mm cruiser way better at their jobs ( nuking dds), so it's IMHO an all-around improvement for the game.

Try to play some normal cruiser, especially in the 5-9 bracket, and you will see what i'm talking about

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20 minutes ago, Hannibalurg said:

might even reduce number of BB's pr game

If that happened, we'd see more cruisers (and I meant his as both playing more and appearing more in the open). Because GUESS WHY cruisers spend all the time behind islands.

Hint: it's not DDs that they are so scared of.

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7 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

This change will make it so that dds don't get nuked by the class that they should be the hard counter against, and in the meanwhile will make 203mm cruiser way better at their jobs ( nuking dds), so it's IMHO an all-around improvement for the game.

In fact, it's not. Cruisers deal enough damage to DDs with HE, their AP shouldn't get more powerful. The whole problem with devastating AP from BBs wasn't that BBs shouldn't be able to hit DDs hard - they shouldn't be able to hit DDs hard with armor piercing ammunition. But it doesn't mean that cruisers should in their stead. DDs are the class that should force switching ammo if you really want to hurt them - and the change as proposed doesn't really do that. BB AP will be less powerful, yes, but instead heavy cruisers will end up shooting AP all day. And, as a side effects, DDs switching to AP against favorably positioned enemy DDs will go out the window because even Akizuki's guns won't arm on DD plating anymore...

 

Overall it's a very lazy "fix" that just stirs things up rather than actually fixes anything. Cruisers potential for attacking DDs was ok. DDs potential for attacking DDs was ok. What we needed was a fix to too effective BB AP - but without messing with the armament of the other two classes.

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30 minutes ago, Hannibalurg said:

DD mains should most likely not read or comment on this thread. 

 

Is the so commonly called "nerf" to BB's AP vs Destroyers nerf comming to early?

 

If we take a look at the state of the game. Currently BB's have the least effective to impact the outcome of a match. Both Flamu and Notser have pointed this out in different videos. Reason behind this is that BB's can't really do much all by themself. Battleships are dependant on support from DD, CA and CV. 

 

Currently CA meta is sitting behind islands and spamming HE of anyone who dares be spotted. 

Current CV meta is that CV's are barely seen. When seen its very often premiums or afk the first minutes of the game. By far CV's and BB's seems to be the most AFK players at the start of the game. 

Current DD meta is to avoid radar. 

 

My biggest issue comming from a DD/BB perspective is that our support vessels (CA) are not really supporting nothing, its all about sitting behind islands and start fires. The first thing we see in a battle is that every CA is rushing to the nearest island and sitting there for the most of the game, ignoring flanks and caps. 

 

If i play DD i can spot for days and not getting any spotting damage done. Often i have sneaked around and spot half their flank from behind, just avoiding sending torps and doing damage, for the simple reason of keeping half the enemy team spotted, and keep them looking for me. (ofcourse doesn't work that great in CV games), but my team are not pushing. Just camping and waiting for one of the sides to do something. The team that got 2 caps early on ends up winning even if they get impatient after 10 minutes and start suiciding. 

 

TL;DR: Nerfing the ability for BB's to deal with DD's with the current lacklustered CA meta, huge campfiesta, will just make it extremely easy to play DD, might even reduce number of BB's pr game and introducing more DD's, that eventually will end up with more people playing radar ships. Won't that destroy the DD gameplay after it has ruined the BB gameplay? I think this change comes at a time where the current state of the game will propell the gameplay into a less entertaining direction.

 

Or am i just overthinking how it will change the game? Right now i find it hard to enjoy the game in both BB and DD. And i don't really like cruisers, i got 1 cruiser and i play her for income (Prinz Eugen), with a cruiser like that you don't camp behind an island. 

 

My current veiw on the game meta:

 

fd4.gif

NO ship can do all by itself.

You are always dependent on team to a degree.

The WR of all classes are very similar.

If you cannot carry in a BB, you are doing it wrong.

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1 hour ago, Hannibalurg said:

Currently BB's have the least effective to impact the outcome of a match.

stopped reading here.

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Problem why CAs camp is simple - i Go forward to support cap and bbs in the rear turn as soon as they see enemy bbs and or a dd Within 10 km and u get focused and obliterated in second - couse u can’t disingage... And u can’t disingage couse if u turn to run (unless there is a luckilly positioned Island nearby) its “citing time” and if u straight reverse and enemy keeps pushing they overtake you (since they are faster going forward then u going backwards) and either overmatch u to death or burn you to death (or both) not to even Go into problem of incoming torpwalls... In the same time to Stay fair - not every bb is equally suited to push cap and brawl so u can’t Blame some bbs for staying a bit back when faced by a better brawler same as u can’t blame ie a shima not pushing in a cap with a z-52 or a Gearing in it... Seccessfoul tactics rely on teamwork ie moving at least loosley together and in some sort of orderly fashion and playing for objectives and before everything else performing your task (depending witch ship u re in) and not breaking formation and That’s wery hard to acheive outside cw setting

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Alpha Tester
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It's almost as if camping battleships don't matter at all to the outcome of a game. I mean, I've never once seen someone pointing out that border-surfing battleships were the direct cause of a lost game, so it must be true!

 

As for the change, I don't think cruisers will be overly effective against destroyers (with some exceptions) since they too will experience overpens, as well as lack of module damage, when firing AP at DDs. I'm looking forward to testing it out though.

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1 hour ago, Hannibalurg said:

If we take a look at the state of the game. Currently BB's have the least effective to impact the outcome of a match. Both Flamu and Notser have pointed this out in different videos. Reason behind this is that BB's can't really do much all by themself. Battleships are dependant on support from DD, CA and CV. 

 

What they fail to take into account is that a ship's impact can be either positive or negative.

Indeed, because of the potency of high concealment or a well placed radar, cruisers and DDs can potentially have a massive positive impact on the match, more so than a BB relegated to just doing damage on what's spotted and tanking hits.

 

HOWEVER.
A bad BB player is a ludicrously negative impact on the match.
Have a team of 2 DDs and 5 cruisers playing poorly and 5 BBs playing very well, then compare that to a team of 2 DDs and 5 cruisers playing very well and 5 BBs playing poorly.

By virtue of having absolutely no staying power and no high impact BB salvoes, you will do much more poorly in the team with 5 bad BB players.

 

 

 

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Wait what are you saying cruisers can´t deal with DDs?

There is like 28 radar cruisers in every match nowadays, and you want to keep the DDs gimped by BBs as well?

 

You really don´t like DD players, do you?

 

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You v got planes, hydro, heal.
You sail broadside, spot 5 torps coming to you at their normal spot distance, you turn in to them and instead of still eating 3 you eat 1 because you whinned long enough and got cruiser-like maneuverability.
You can dish out 200k dmg per game and you have the least impact?
With all your whinning you managed to get AA buffs everywhere effectivily making cvs unplayable.
Wth are you talking about.
You are the reason for this fucked up gameplay.

And fyi you shouldnt be able to deal with dds mate.
dds should be able to deal with you which they cant because of radar-walls + the above.
So screw that.


 

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2 hours ago, Hannibalurg said:

DD mains should most likely not read or comment on this thread. 

Why tho?

 

2 hours ago, Hannibalurg said:

Currently BB's have the least effective to impact the outcome of a match.

Only bcuz of how bad the average BB player is. A single well played BB can turn the tide of the game, often much more than a CA / DD (not as much as a CV, but that's a different story)

 

2 hours ago, Hannibalurg said:

Reason behind this is that BB's can't really do much all by themself.

They can, or rather could - if only they were able to breathe and think at the same time

 

2 hours ago, Hannibalurg said:

Currently CA meta is sitting behind islands and spamming HE of anyone who dares be spotted. 

Because if they'll leave that waifu island they'll get blasted out of the water by a BB some 30km away pretty much instantly

 

2 hours ago, Hannibalurg said:

but my team are not pushing. Just camping and waiting for one of the sides to do something.

Which is down to them being useless potatoes not any other reason

 

2 hours ago, Hannibalurg said:

might even reduce number of BB's pr game

Yeah, bcuz that would be a bad thing :fish_palm:

 

2 hours ago, Hannibalurg said:

Or am i just overthinking how it will change the game?

No, in fact you aren't thinking enough

 

Your whole post goes way too far into being stupidly biased :Smile_sceptic:

 

 

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1 hour ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

I nominate this topic for a skybuck.

Damn, you beat me.

 

At least @Boris_MNE can give his seal of troll approval...

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2 hours ago, Hannibalurg said:

DD mains should most likely not read or comment on this thread. 

 

Interesting discussion you're trying to have here, instantly disinviting one side of the argument that's directly effected ...

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7 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

 

Interesting discussion you're trying to have here, instantly disinviting one side of the argument that's directly effected ...

Well, compare WG: "Hey, let's discuss carrier rework. Decent carrier mains not welcome."

 

I guess it's contagious.

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7 minutes ago, Saiyko said:

Well, compare WG: "Hey, let's discuss carrier rework. Decent carrier mains not welcome."

 

I guess it's contagious.

 

To be fair, "let's discuss a BB rework. BB mains not welcome" would probably be very productive :Smile_trollface:

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2 hours ago, Hannibalurg said:

Nerfing the ability for BB's to deal with DD's

This is BS. Even after the nerf you can devastate DDs, just switch to HE. Or overpen him for half of his health.

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2 hours ago, Hannibalurg said:

TL;DR: Nerfing the ability for BB's to deal with DD's with the current lacklustered CA meta, huge campfiesta, will just make it extremely easy to play DD, might even reduce number of BB's pr game and introducing more DD's, that eventually will end up with more people playing radar ships. Won't that destroy the DD gameplay after it has ruined the BB gameplay? I think this change comes at a time where the current state of the game will propell the gameplay into a less entertaining direction.

Oh, DDs, the only thing they ever had to fear was BB AP pens. Haha, no... BB AP pens are far from the sole threat DDs face, as they pretty much are threatened by all other classes, from good CVs deleting them, to (radar/hydro) cruisers to other DDs, pretty much everything can be a threat to DDs. BB AP pens just were the one thing that was the most idiotic, because while CV spotting and executing an air attack or cruisers countering DDs or DDs killing each other in knife fights was kind of making sense, BBs being able to delete DDs with their almost nonexistent armour due to RNG pens was just dumb and made no real sense. DD play will remain hard, even with the change, not in the least if heavy cruisers will use AP to kill DDs.

 

BBs still have means to delete DDs even after the change. Apart from secondary builds that now can absolutely melt DDs that stay within range, overpens still deal a ton of damage relative to a DDs hp pool, even if they don't miraculously pen multiple sections and suddenly deal more than the advertised 10%.

 

And as to BBs being unable to carry... A well-played BB can absolutely carry randoms and can have an impact in ranked. It's just that usually playing a DD or cruiser is harder than playing a BB and for players who have to entrust their fate in themselves and six random folks on their team in randoms, playing a DD or cruiser allows you to take the harder role so that if you end up with the less gifted, they can play the easier ships. If you want consistently decent games, learn how to DD/cruiser and play that. If you want to have a more relaxed game, play BB. 

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1 hour ago, veslingr said:

this thread is a joke, right?.....please tell me OP is just joking

It's the weekend.

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6 hours ago, Hannibalurg said:

Nerfing the ability for BB's to deal with DD's with the current lacklustered CA meta, huge campfiesta, will just make it extremely easy to play DD, might even reduce number of BB's pr game and introducing more DD's, that eventually will end up with more people playing radar ships.

 

So that's reducing BB population which is way too high to begin with and introducing more cruisers, which are supposed to be the most numerous class, to the game, no?

I'm sorry, weren't you talking about negative effects? Because I don't see any.

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1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

 

So that's reducing BB population which is way too high to begin with and introducing more cruisers, which are supposed to be the most numerous class, to the game, no?

I'm sorry, weren't you talking about negative effects? I because I don't see any.

"might even reduce BBs" LOL. Missed that one.

 

The only hypothetic DD that might reduce BBs is a DD with a) stealth-consumable (so no radar4u) b) 15 16km torps c) fletcher like agility d) quadruple torp reload booster

 

and even then...

 

 

Gotta love pre-emptive BB outcry about too powahfull DDs, while the real thing that is gonna change is that DDs will kill each other faster, helped by cruisers, helped by radar influx, helped by more hardcore anti-DD DDs (lo yang, Z's, and of course Russian masterrace Groz)

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