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Cluid

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Hi guys, I hope this post finds you all well and good.

 

I'm getting into this game a little bit now and starting to enjoy certain aspects of it very much, my gameplay is improving slightly so all is good in my world at the moment, I've decided as I'm getting close to the correct tier to try and play an Aircraft Carrier when I have the stuff to research it and then buy it.

 

from what I have seen on YT videos communication is the key to being good at ACC play, and then controlling your squadron of fighters/torpedo planes/bombers, not sitting too far off the battle so your planes don't have to travel to far, and instead of focusing on one area be aware of the whole map and what is going on around you, now to my question, why do they sell Cruisers, Battleships, and Destroyers on the website but not ACC's, is there a reason for this??  I just thought that if I do get into this part of the game I would like something a little bit different like we can with the other ships in the game.

 

thanks for any advice and help 

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Wargaming is currently reworking the whole class of carriers. This should be done in a few months, but the changes will be very big. If someone buys a premium carrier right before that rework and afterwards doesn't like it anymore, this would cause some problems. That's why there are currently no carriers in the shop.

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CVs are in a pretty pathetic state in general

  • Tier 4 and 5 are miserable and have basically no reason to play them
  • Tier 6s suddenly meet bs amounts of AA while having no reserves
  • 7s fight almost nothing but Saipans (who in return have to be extra special to fail in that CV)
  • 8s fight 10s so good luck with that.
  • Guess at tier 9 you can start finally try playing something properly, except that by this time you'll be sick and tired of the garbage UI which never works

 

And as Commander_Cornflakes said - CV rework is coming, so most likely premium CVs won't be sold any time soon.

Maybe only the "first" selling of the GZ at the end of the month (first-reworked sale of it to be precise, they once already sold it... for a very brief moment followed by a long period of "lets try to make this actually work" lol), but that's the best you can hope for.

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54 minutes ago, Cluid said:

Hi guys, I hope this post finds you all well and good.

 

I'm getting into this game a little bit now and starting to enjoy certain aspects of it very much, my gameplay is improving slightly so all is good in my world at the moment, I've decided as I'm getting close to the correct tier to try and play an Aircraft Carrier when I have the stuff to research it and then buy it.

 

from what I have seen on YT videos communication is the key to being good at ACC play, and then controlling your squadron of fighters/torpedo planes/bombers, not sitting too far off the battle so your planes don't have to travel to far, and instead of focusing on one area be aware of the whole map and what is going on around you, now to my question, why do they sell Cruisers, Battleships, and Destroyers on the website but not ACC's, is there a reason for this??  I just thought that if I do get into this part of the game I would like something a little bit different like we can with the other ships in the game.

 

thanks for any advice and help 

Hey Cluid, welcome.

The only premium carriers in the game (CVs for short, ACC is not really used) are Saipan and Kaga at tier 7 and Enterprise and Graf Zeppelin at tier 8.

Even if they were available in the shop, I wouldnt recommend you buying them due to your low count of battles.

Start one of the two silver lines (I would go Japanese if I were you) and see if it fits your playstyle, there is a high probability you will not like it.

But as the guys above said there is a rework of the whole class in progress, so things could go better. (they could also go even worse)

Wilkatis gives a good analysis of their current situation tier for tier.

Cheers

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1 hour ago, Cluid said:

Hi guys, I hope this post finds you all well and good.

 

I'm getting into this game a little bit now and starting to enjoy certain aspects of it very much, my gameplay is improving slightly so all is good in my world at the moment, I've decided as I'm getting close to the correct tier to try and play an Aircraft Carrier when I have the stuff to research it and then buy it.

 

from what I have seen on YT videos communication is the key to being good at ACC play, and then controlling your squadron of fighters/torpedo planes/bombers, not sitting too far off the battle so your planes don't have to travel to far, and instead of focusing on one area be aware of the whole map and what is going on around you, now to my question, why do they sell Cruisers, Battleships, and Destroyers on the website but not ACC's, is there a reason for this??  I just thought that if I do get into this part of the game I would like something a little bit different like we can with the other ships in the game.

 

thanks for any advice and help 

Welcome to Wows. Although "wilkatis_LV" does give a good account of current state of CV, don't let that discourage you completely. If you go into playing CV, knowing the current state of affairs so to speak, it can still be fun to play CVs. I mostly let my CVs stay in the harbor these days, however, I do take them out once in a while and do feel it's fun as its very different from playing the other ships. At least, trying them out for the first couple of tiers will give you a good idea if they're for you or not - even if the gameplay will likely change going forward.

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1 hour ago, Cluid said:

Hi guys, I hope this post finds you all well and good.

 

I'm getting into this game a little bit now and starting to enjoy certain aspects of it very much, my gameplay is improving slightly so all is good in my world at the moment, I've decided as I'm getting close to the correct tier to try and play an Aircraft Carrier when I have the stuff to research it and then buy it.

 

from what I have seen on YT videos communication is the key to being good at ACC play, and then controlling your squadron of fighters/torpedo planes/bombers, not sitting too far off the battle so your planes don't have to travel to far, and instead of focusing on one area be aware of the whole map and what is going on around you, now to my question, why do they sell Cruisers, Battleships, and Destroyers on the website but not ACC's, is there a reason for this??  I just thought that if I do get into this part of the game I would like something a little bit different like we can with the other ships in the game.

 

thanks for any advice and help 

Even if it was possible, I strongly discourage starting your CV experience by purchasing a premium. This is a bad idea in any class but it gets worse with carriers. You should really wrap your head around controlling planes in tiers 4-5, then learn how to actually direct them in combat (the Alt-attacks) and deal with heavy AA at tier 6 and only then progress further (the lowest tier CV at the moment is t7). With carriers higher tier means higher complexity AND higher impact. To an extent this is true for other classes too, but for carriers it is much more pronounced. What it means is that, as a newbie, you will get your stern kicked soundly by more experienced opponents AND you getting your stern kicked will weigh heavily on the team result. It's relatively easy to overcome your CV being a potato if it's t4-5 CV. T6 CV not knowing his stuff is more of a problem but remains manageable. But a t7 or t8 CV are really important already. If they are high tier, their contribution to killing things is very important. If they are low tier, their expected damage is lower but their scouting can be even more crucial AND they need to somehow keep their planes alive - not an easy task against high tier AA...

 

If you want CVs, don't jump straight to premiums. Pick a silver line and grind it seriously. If you really can't stand t4-5 (they can be really boring with only automatic attacks) then you can freeXP to t6 but not higher. Please, PLEASE learn your craft at t6. It will be painful. But it's invaluable. If you jump the tiers too soon, you'll end up thrown into environment where you're going to be failing so hard that you won't be even able to recognize how and where exactly your failures originate - thus preventing you from actually learning and getting better effectively.

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just work through the japanese carriers and as stated before stay at tier 6 for a while to learn strafing, cross dropping etc. also maybe stay at tier 7 for a while too to learn counter strafing mechanics. watch some farazelleth videos and then once you get competent at cvs move up through tiers 8, 9 and 10. however there is not much point doing all this as CVs are being reworked so they will be completely different in a few months. but its up to you if you want to enjoy them for the brief time we have left with them

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Starting from T6 you can use manual attacks in CVs. I recommend you practice these in Coop :cap_like:

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thank you very much guys for your comments and advice, I must admit I'm not as excited about playing CV's  (there you go Tank276 thanks, mate :-) after reading the comments on this thread, but I will give it a go just to see if this playstyle suits me, Im slightly disabled as in I have RA in both hands so it can get quite painful playing any games these days, but I found that World of Warships is a nice balance for me, I used to play World of Warcraft, Lineage 2, Eve, and quite a few others but it gets so painful after an hour that I had to stop.

 

anyway thanks again guys, and I hope to see and blow the s**t out of a few of you in game

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If you experience trouble with your hands id basically advise you to go for the USN carriers, simply because they have less squads to command. 
They still are very powerfull in my opinion. 

On premiums i'll go with what the rest said; make sure you know what you're buying before you do so, cause Carriers are a class of there own. 
Also; WG tends to have summer sales around mid-july so if you can make up your mind by then you can probably pick up a saipan or kaga for only 15eu (I'd advise you to go for a carrier of the nation you're playing, so definitely not the Graf Zeppelin, also because its very specific in style). 

But for now, first test that stuff, get some battles & think about it a bit

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Hey, Japanese carriers from tier 5 to 7 are quite fun. Also several times I defeated Saipans in my Kaga.

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16 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Wargaming is currently reworking the whole class of carriers. This should be done in a few months, but the changes will be very big. If someone buys a premium carrier right before that rework and afterwards doesn't like it anymore, this would cause some problems. That's why there are currently no carriers in the shop.

 

Like they did in 2016? "The year of the carrier"?

Or you mean how they did in 2017? "The year of the carrier"?

So then, is 2018 going to be "The year of the carrier"?

 

They removed all carriers from the shop? Well, since they handled so well the graf zep launch, not surprised at all.

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3 hours ago, Cluid said:

thank you very much guys for your comments and advice, I must admit I'm not as excited about playing CV's  (there you go Tank276 thanks, mate :-) after reading the comments on this thread, but I will give it a go just to see if this playstyle suits me, Im slightly disabled as in I have RA in both hands so it can get quite painful playing any games these days, but I found that World of Warships is a nice balance for me, I used to play World of Warcraft, Lineage 2, Eve, and quite a few others but it gets so painful after an hour that I had to stop.

 

anyway thanks again guys, and I hope to see and blow the s**t out of a few of you in game

In light of your problems, I would advise against CVs... while not nearly as DPM intensive as most actual RTS games and stuff like this, playing a CV is much more demanding than other classes of ships in WoWs - I'm afraid there's a good chance you're going to find yourself suffering from your condition again, especially once you get over tier 5.

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2 minutes ago, eliastion said:

In light of your problems, I would advise against CVs... while not nearly as DPM intensive as most actual RTS games and stuff like this, playing a CV is much more demanding than other classes of ships in WoWs - I'm afraid there's a good chance you're going to find yourself suffering from your condition again, especially once you get over tier 5.

Thats a bad advice, we need more carrier players, specially if we don't want them to be changed because "too few people plays them" or some other bullcrap like that.

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1 minute ago, Sargento_YO said:

Thats a bad advice, we need more carrier players, specially if we don't want them to be changed because "too few people plays them" or some other bullcrap like that.

Oh, yes, we need more CV players so it's ok to encourage (and not ok to warn) people who are literally going to physically suffer by playing them due to their medical condition.

WTF is wrong with you, mate, seriously.

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Let the dude himself decide okay. I encourage him to start playing CVs, in fact, Cluid, if you want you can join my clan & me and the other guys will be more than happy to train you as much as we reasonably can. 

If your RA plays up too much for you to continue playing carriers then battleships will always be a good option, with which we can also help you. 

But i suggest you try first if you want to- and you seem to want to- i just wouldnt advise you to start buying premiums straight away for several reasons (discounts not being the least, but also not the first). 

I've got a Saipan myself, the USN line up to tier 9 and the IJN line to tier 7 so i can tell you quite a bit about both. 

Again, well be happy to have you. 

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A few days ago I decided to pick up CVs.

 

One game in the Langley was all it took to make me sell it and never look back again:

 

No manual drops means even bots can dodge your drops, therefore you have no reliable way of doing damage, except from crossdropping.

Instantly matched against a Bogue. No strafing means he can right click my planes and I have no counterplay whatsoever. Strafing would make short work of such primitive and predictable play.

 

T4 and T5 are complete trash. They have absolutely no way of competing against a higher tier CV. (T5 against a T6 is even worse). CV tiers should ALWAYS be equal, or players should have tools that would allow them to outplay the other CV. No strafe and manual drop means no outplay potential.

T6: I would assume is pitiful due to how T6 matchmaking works, meaning you will be meeting T8s most of the time, which will eat your planes for breakfast. If you get into a TV match I assume you can seal club. But that will not happen often.

T7: You better have Saipan or Kaga. Or be a super unicorn in Hiryu.

T8: Hello tier X 8 out of 10 games. Instablapping KM BBs seems fun though.

T9 and T10 seem playable, but good luck getting to them.

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17 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Wargaming is currently reworking the whole class of carriers.

 

"currently" like they've been for 2 years or so now haven't they.

I mean you can wait but at that point no-one can tell how long the situation will last anymore - if it ends at all...

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2 minutes ago, Tekacko said:

A few days ago I decided to pick up CVs.

 

One game in the Langley was all it took to make me sell it and never look back again:

 

No manual drops means even bots can dodge your drops, therefore you have no reliable way of doing damage, except from crossdropping.

Instantly matched against a Bogue. No strafing means he can right click my planes and I have no counterplay whatsoever. Strafing would make short work of such primitive and predictable play.

 

T4 and T5 are complete trash. They have absolutely no way of competing against a higher tier CV. (T5 against a T6 is even worse). CV tiers should ALWAYS be equal, or players should have tools that would allow them to outplay the other CV. No strafe and manual drop means no outplay potential.

T6: I would assume is pitiful due to how T6 matchmaking works, meaning you will be meeting T8s most of the time, which will eat your planes for breakfast. If you get into a TV match I assume you can seal club. But that will not happen often.

T7: You better have Saipan or Kaga. Or be a super unicorn in Hiryu.

T8: Hello tier X 8 out of 10 games. Instablapping KM BBs seems fun though.

T9 and T10 seem playable, but good luck getting to them.

Hihi i could even learn you how to rape in a langley. Would you like a couple of trial lessons some time? Then add me to your friend list & stalk me when im online. 

The tier 4& 5 CV thingy is anoying, but not that bad. 
Tier 6 MM? Only annoying if you end against tier 8, rest is hilarious
Tier 7 premiums? You can outplay any of them in a regular, but ill admit a well playing saipan is difficult to beat
Tier 8? Yeah, the tier 10 is annoying, but you can force this down a bit by division MM
Tier 9 & 10 are amazing

 

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Hulloh, I have a bit of the same problem with my hands too so I can see why you like this game (I can comfortably mage some 10-15 games in a day, sometimes more depending). Does not require quite so fast reaction times or excessive limbic acrobatics to operate. So i can see CV's might seem like a good bet BUT gameplay with them is actually quite hectic... Even more so that in a DD, as there are many things you have to keep an eye out for all at the same time. Also, Cv's impact in a game is huge, basically, if CV player is not good, your team will lose the game almost every time and you will not only get slapped by the other CV, but also by your own team for not being a super star, so just like everyone else I'd advise you to avoid the infamous "Premium-Trap" for now and just take it easy and learn the basics in tiers 4-6 first, only then you can decide whether this ship type is for you or not.:Smile_Default:

 

Do not try to progress too fast and Free-XP or Premium your way up the tiers too quickly. Gameplay and skill gap gets exponentially bigger the higher you go. And the fact that ships get progressively more powerful each tier also means that you will have much less margin for error and you will be severely and instantly punished for even small mistakes by other players. This can be VERY discouraging and once your own team somehow gets the idea, that you are a potato or "Noob" they will let you hear about it too. That is no fun, so in the interest of keeping it fun for everyone, yourself especially, it is much better to proceed slowly. I have experienced this myself - I pretty much Free-XP'd my way to Yamato in BB's during the distant Noob-Days and consequently gave up, my BB stats remaining abysmal to this day. I finally had to face the fact that I truly sucked in them. After some soul-serching and having watched a few instructive videos I went back to low tiers and began grinding DD's from the start very-very slowly. That has proved fruitful and also improved my game enjoyment remarkably. I have now ground the DD's up to tier 10 after a few thousand games (5936 to be exact) and remain adept in them, so now my current project is to learn to play with Cruisers. I plan eventual return to BB's and CV's too (yes, I have tried both before) but there's no hurry, hehehe!:cap_old:

 

You also seem to have done Very Well with RN Cruisers so do not abandon them entirely. It is a good ship line and only gets better in Higher tiers, once you get the smokes to help keep you alive better. Might be a good thing to stay with it also. Just keep in mind their role - You are a DD-killer par excellence. No other Cruiser in the game can do it better. Staying with that role can bring very juicy rewards in terms of game performance and prove to be personally highly satisfactory too. Happy Hunting! :Smile_honoring:

 

@Cluid

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1 hour ago, Sargento_YO said:

Thats a bad advice, we need more carrier players, specially if we don't want them to be changed because "too few people plays them" or some other bullcrap like that.

 

To be fair that reads like "please send me more newbies to slap about" as you've posted you only play low/mid tier CV's due to the AA at higher tiers and you are clearly part of the reason that CV play is unattractive to your opponents.

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9 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

To be fair that reads like "please send me more newbies to slap about" as you've posted you only play low/mid tier CV's due to the AA at higher tiers and you are clearly part of the reason that CV play is unattractive to your opponents.

Well, in another thread I also said "There should be a plenty and healthy population of seals"... Don't remember where I wrote that tho.
Also, it's not true that tier 5 it's crap. I'm not a really good cv player (I really suck in tier X) but several times I managed to deal with enemy AS Ryujos and Independences in my Zuiho.

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1 hour ago, Sargento_YO said:

Well, in another thread I also said "There should be a plenty and healthy population of seals"... Don't remember where I wrote that tho.
Also, it's not true that tier 5 it's crap. I'm not a really good cv player (I really suck in tier X) but several times I managed to deal with enemy AS Ryujos and Independences in my Zuiho.

Oh don't exaggerate, what ships at T5/6 (other than Texas that's horribly slow and an HE magnet so loses AA like mad) have really meaningful AA especially now that Cleveland is T8? The reason you like to play CV at mid tiers is you have 19 point captains vs 10 point and lower seals and enemy ships with no useful AA to stop your seal clubbery.

Now I'm not against seal clubbing as I play Kamikaze with my Shima captain, but with the dramatic influence of CV at low and mid tiers especially with newbie CV's as opposition is excessive, basically it's game wrecking for the other side and pretty boring for your side. Being [edited] slapped by a CV sealclubber really does put off newbie CV players so you're a part of the problem.

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Well... I have a Kirov with max aa, it's quite devastating.
But also, the main reason of why I play tier 5 to 7 carriers (other than the sealclubbing which happens only on tier 5 that is) it's that at tier 8 and above there is a hell way too much AA everywhere. Even on tier 7 I have some tactics to overwhelm a high AA battleship if I have no other choice. But with damn things like Kidd and RN cruisers which has insane aa, defensive fire (that thing should be banned!) and can shoot from inside a smoke screen there is no counter (and no, blind torpedoing smoke screens it's not a valid counter).

I tried tier 9 and 10 and I can tell you it's not fun to be unable to aproach any enemy cruiser (specially with that damn Worchester, 3500 damage per second at 8 km!!) without having your planes wiped out at once. I tell the team to sink the target but almost no one does anything. Then I have to wait and carefully check where to strike. Also, I tried to use AS Hakuryu and despite avoiding strafes from Midways, trying to strafe his ones and all tactics I can't make it work. People there are way too pro. High tier carrier battles aren't fun at all.

Also I don't have any reason to actually endure the pain and learn to play tier X carriers because they can't be used on clan wars.

So, in the end I stick to what's more fun.

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19 hours ago, eliastion said:

 With carriers higher tier means higher complexity AND higher impact. To an extent this is true for other classes too, but for carriers it is much more pronounced. What it means is that, as a newbie, you will get your stern kicked soundly by more experienced opponents AND you getting your stern kicked will weigh heavily on the team result. It's relatively easy to overcome your CV being a potato if it's t4-5 CV. T6 CV not knowing his stuff is more of a problem but remains manageable. But a t7 or t8 CV are really important already. If they are high tier, their contribution to killing things is very important. If they are low tier, their expected damage is lower but their scouting can be even more crucial AND they need to somehow keep their planes alive - not an easy task against high tier AA...

Very well and precisely said. CV are exceptionally important class, that's why they need their players to be matched by the MM against similarly skilled people. Otherwise the game becomes unfair for all 24 players. I think that 3 skill brackets would be enough, but it may depend on the server load to avoid too long (>5 minutes?) queuing time. 

4 hours ago, eliastion said:

In light of your problems, I would advise against CVs... while not nearly as DPM intensive as most actual RTS games and stuff like this, playing a CV is much more demanding than other classes of ships in WoWs - I'm afraid there's a good chance you're going to find yourself suffering from your condition again, especially once you get over tier 5.

MM should take care of that. 

3 hours ago, Sargento_YO said:

Thats a bad advice, we need more carrier players, specially if we don't want them to be changed because "too few people plays them" or some other bullcrap like that.

If we want to allow players to be able to learn "in the real game" how to play such an important class, it HAS to be matchmaking which doesn't put a newbie vs very good seal-clubber. I hope it is obvious.

3 hours ago, Tekacko said:

 

T4 and T5 are complete trash. They have absolutely no way of competing against a higher tier CV. (T5 against a T6 is even worse). CV tiers should ALWAYS be equal, or players should have tools that would allow them to outplay the other CV. No strafe and manual drop means no outplay potential.

Heh. Of course. But interesting that not so many people here notice that most of -2 tiered battleships or cruisers too have "no outplay potential". Why? Probably because outplayed CV ruins the whole game, while outplayed cruiser or 2 tier lower is just suffering for himself... while very rarely being presented with RNG opportunity to kill something (and being very highly rewarded). 

Anyway, it doesn't change the problem: much lower tiered ships are weaker and this is a contradiction of fair game. 

3 hours ago, Tekacko said:

T6: I would assume is pitiful due to how T6 matchmaking works, meaning you will be meeting T8s most of the time, which will eat your planes for breakfast. If you get into a TV match I assume you can seal club. But that will not happen often.

Seal clubbing should not be a revenge for being clubbed. This is again a fair game contradiction. 

3 hours ago, Tekacko said:

T7: You better have Saipan or Kaga. Or be a super unicorn in Hiryu.

Pay pay pay ;)

3 hours ago, Tekacko said:

T8: Hello tier X 8 out of 10 games. Instablapping KM BBs seems fun though.

T9 and T10 seem playable, but good luck getting to them.

So after the painful (and pay-full) grind you'll reach The Golden Fields where you will never be the lower tier (and where you can blap anything you look at)

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