From Reddit: "PSA: Buying premium ships on sale for cheap doubloons... it might be over"

[xxNihilanxx]

54 minutes ago, Oderisson said:

If you spent 1000 on a free to play game till June, then You have an addiction problem, and lack of bundles is least of Your problems.

 

 

 

 

As you seem to be intent on contributing nothing to this discussion other than trying to be a complete wankpuffin let me explain this for you.

 

So-called "free to play" games are not really free to play. They are actually free for some to play. In order for them to be free for some to play others have to pay else the developers don't eat and the game ceases to exist. We have this "wonderful" game purely because some people are prepared to pay for it.

 

Here endeth the (incredibly frelling basic) lesson.

[Oderisson]

34 minutes ago, xxNihilanxx said:

 

As you seem to be intent on contributing nothing to this discussion other than trying to be a complete wankpuffin let me explain this for you.

 

So-called "free to play" games are not really free to play. They are actually free for some to play. In order for them to be free for some to play others have to pay else the developers don't eat and the game ceases to exist. We have this "wonderful" game purely because some people are prepared to pay for it.

 

Here endeth the (incredibly frelling basic) lesson.

For starters this isnt a discussion. This is a rant of some guys about their favourite toy being taken away and a few pointless threats to developers.

[hgbn_dk]

33 minutes ago, Oderisson said:

For starters this isnt a discussion. This is a rant of some guys about their favourite toy being taken away and a few pointless threats to developers.

Rant????? Like I wrote earlier. I will actual benefit from this decision and save a lot of money... I'm not complaining just pointing out the loss of extra revenue they will receive from it.

[hgbn_dk]

58 minutes ago, Oderisson said:

For starters this isnt a discussion. This is a rant of some guys about their favourite toy being taken away and a few pointless threats to developers.

If this isn't a discussion will that mean you're just harassing paying customers for fun??

[Miessa3]

10 hours ago, Oderisson said:

I explained why it is impossible. Store and live server are two compleatly different things. I have updated my post about gifting but you are quoting original one. Sorry for that.

 

Buying ship goes like this: Store sends message to live server and live server adds a ship to account. It is actually easier to stay this way and apply lover amount of dubloons because this one way comunnication of store ->server remains unchanged.

Yes this is why I can buy limited personal offers more than once because the store conveniently "forgets" what I bought earlier right?

Only add a regular feedback from the gameserver which ships where bought from the techtree and it's done......

I also don't see why knowing which premiumships people own is such a huge problem as people hide their stats moslty for other reasons.

Yes it may colide with existing law but nothing will happen if noone cares.

It's not like WG is caring anyway, just look at all the red stars and depictions of certain emblems in the game that are very well forbidden to show in some east european contrys.

 

9 hours ago, Oderisson said:

And whats so funny to you? You want same as wot? Premium ammo, timed camouflages, removing tanks from game because they were too op stat-wise, premium ships that thave preferrential matchmaking? If you dont see it you are an idiot.

 

We have it easy. WG learned its mistakes with world of taks and even now it is taking them years to repair it. Goldspam, now preferential matchmaking.

 

Jeah sure they totally learned that limited MM is a deaf idea that is why Tier IV have the same +-2 MM like everyone else. Oh wait....

And OP Premiums (that are the major reason for the uproar in wot recently) are totally not present in WoWS...... /s

2 hours ago, Oderisson said:

For starters this isnt a discussion. This is a rant of some guys about their favourite toy being taken away and a few pointless threats to developers.

Well let's call it feedback then?

It certainly has the character of a discussion though as WG seems to have listened to reasoned arguements and acted accordingly.

 

Just what the hell.

How much of a deluded fanboy you must be to argument like you did?

[Yanayuki]

Haven't had checked the forums for a few days and just read up on what happened since.

 

And wow, I have to agree with quite a few others here. The only thing that will happen is that WG will get less money, at least and definitively from me. Buying dubloons when I need them? HECK NO. Econimics 101 and stuff. Should be known. People get them when they are cheap, even if they dont need them at that very time. Like the special personal offers that were limited to 1 per account. They were a nice opportunity to stuck up on dubloons occasionally.

 

And no, -10% is not enough to make me buy dubloons. WG can choke on their greed.

[MrConway]

On 6/15/2018 at 7:29 PM, Bellegar said:

Being my usual critical self though, I have one question.... If this was already implemented in May (although unplanned), why are you only telling us now? I mean, when did you find out it was implemented too early, and why didn't you announce the changes at that time?

 

When we say that we need to improve communications, we also need to improve them internally. With the speed of development and changes sometimes things are not communicated optimally and buried in a pile of other information. In this case we realized that the compensation had changed when it was pointed out to us on reddit.

 

This is why we kicked of another internal discussion on the issue to decide how to go forward with this change and whether or not to compensate players that thought they would be getting the higher amount of compensation.

 

Our intention here was never to be secretive about the matter, it just unfortunately slipped through the cracks.

 

On 6/15/2018 at 7:33 PM, mrk421 said:

@MrConway Perhaps this is a good time to pitch an idea I proposed some time ago on a thread where they suggested having in-game missions for earning certain OP premium ships that are no longer available:

 

So the idea was that you'd have in-game missions which you could complete to unlock certain ships so that they'd appear on the tech tree. You'd still have to buy the ships, but could unlock more of them to choose from. I think this would address several things with one solution: 1) players would have more things to spend their in-game doubloons on - and even the ships that have been removed from the store are still available via Super containers, so I don't think having even those unlocked would be unreasonable; 2) It would provide additional things to do, keeping them engaged with the game for longer; 3) Provide additional income to WG, as players would still have to BUY the ships they unlock

 

How about it?

 

Honestly - I think its a great idea and have sent it along to devs for consideration :)

 

On 6/15/2018 at 10:50 PM, Nechrom said:

I don't understand this policy change.

Why can't players who already own the ship get the full ship value in doubloons?

Players who don't own the ship already don't get only 70% of the ship they purchased. So why is the rest treated differently and getting only a part of what they paid for.

 

If you decide to go though with this change then you also need to correct the advertised discount %, or it's false advertising.

 

We are going to specifically point out the amount of compensation you get for each package in the description to make sure everyone knows what they get.

 

These ship discounts are supposed to be just that - ship discounts and not doubloon discounts.

 

On 6/15/2018 at 11:07 PM, Aragathor said:

I have one question. What incentive does an owner of a premium ship have to even buy a special premium ship offer now? After all, he isn't getting the full value at a discounted price. No, he is getting a package of lesser value at full price.

Anyone thinking in economical terms will see that this is a bad deal.

 

An owner doesn't have that incentive anymore in this case. These ship discounts are intended to be discounts on the ships and not doubloons, so they are aimed at players who might want the ships and don't have them yet.

 

[Aragathor]

10 minutes ago, MrConway said:

An owner doesn't have that incentive anymore in this case. These ship discounts are intended to be discounts on the ships and not doubloons, so they are aimed at players who might want the ships and don't have them yet.

Then I'm very sorry that my fears have been confirmed. This will be a huge net negative change for both long time players and WG. I just can't see how Wargaming hopes to profit from this change.

Because let's be honest, the amount of doubloon offers is so low that it's almost impossible to get a good deal for them. And since the prices in the shop go up and up soon there will be nothing good to spend money on. Save maybe premium time.

[zaaaaaaP]

2 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

When we say that we need to improve communications, we also need to improve them internally. With the speed of development and changes sometimes things are not communicated optimally and buried in a pile of other information. In this case we realized that the compensation had changed when it was pointed out to us on reddit.

 

 

Yet not any member of WG staff felt the need to comment in that thread, ever.

 

 

Quote

These ship discounts are supposed to be just that - ship discounts and not doubloon discounts.

 

 

Yet this is how it is currently presented... But the reply would be "well you get the -15% applied to the other stuff in the (forced) bundle"... Sure...

 

I definitely hope after 0.7.6 the shop will display these "discounts" very differently to existing owners of ships. And no, a small fineprint in after clicking the product is not enough. Not when the "overview" in the shop says: -15% FOR YOU

 

Quote

An owner doesn't have that incentive anymore in this case. These ship discounts are intended to be discounts on the ships and not doubloons, so they are aimed at players who might want the ships and don't have them yet.

 

Then why offer them at all to owners? Why not make the shop<->player database talk in both directions?

 

All this would very easily be solved by only showing "real" offers on the shop. When i log in on the shop, i would see only ships that i dont already own, or packages with discounts that actually are true.

 

But of course, that would result in a shop that "feels" quite empty for such a player. Personally, i prefer that tho because i could more easily see what really might interest me. What good are all these packages in the future for me? I dont have a actual discount on them, they only waste space for me in the shop, they are entirely useless.

 

But sure, there are doubloon offers as a replacement for such players. Yes...

 

For example 15.000 doubloons for ~83€! Damn that sounds great! Oh wait, its a forced bundled (of course!) with 25mil silver credits. Hmm, i dont really need/want those.

 

Lets see if i still save money compared to standard price. 15.000 doubloons cost normally ~50€... oh wait. Thats ~33€ less than that bundle?! Hmmm guess what, no thanks!

 

As many have pointed out already, this change will very likely lead to players spending less money overall.

[xxNihilanxx]

3 hours ago, MrConway said:

Our intention here was never to be secretive about the matter, it just unfortunately slipped through the cracks.

 

"Honest, Your Honour."

[zaaaaaaP]

 

3 hours ago, xxNihilanxx said:

Our intention here was never to be secretive about the matter, it just unfortunately slipped through the cracks.

 

"Honest, Your Honour."

 

Translation: We are not evil, just incompetent. Forgive us.

[Titan_net]

8 hours ago, MrConway said:

These ship discounts are supposed to be just that - ship discounts and not doubloon discounts.

 

I can understand that decision, even though I don't think it will increase you income.

( People love buying things at discounts and I think most people will never ever buy doubloons for full price. I definitely won't. But I also never used the discount/premium doubloon trick.. so)

 

8 hours ago, MrConway said:

Our intention here was never to be secretive about the matter, it just unfortunately slipped through the cracks.

 

This on the other hand sounds totally dumb. Devs in your company just randomly add things to patches without reporting it to anyone who writes patch notes? 

 

[zaaaaaaP]

56 minutes ago, Titan_net said:

This on the other hand sounds totally dumb. Devs in your company just randomly add things to patches without reporting it to anyone who writes patch notes? 

 

 

The problem is not that it happens. Mistakes happen in every company, everywhere.

 

The problem is that it has been happening for quite a while, and it will keep happening.

 

HMS Miscommunication, should be a new TX premium.

[Nechrom]

10 hours ago, MrConway said:

These ship discounts are supposed to be just that - ship discounts and not doubloon discounts.

Then that begs the question why you picked doubloons to compensate for duplicate ship purchases and not just cut the price for people who already own one or more ships from a bundle so you don't have to compensate them with anything.

[Bellegar]

11 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

When we say that we need to improve communications, we also need to improve them internally. With the speed of development and changes sometimes things are not communicated optimally and buried in a pile of other information. In this case we realized that the compensation had changed when it was pointed out to us on reddit.

 

This is why we kicked of another internal discussion on the issue to decide how to go forward with this change and whether or not to compensate players that thought they would be getting the higher amount of compensation.

 

Our intention here was never to be secretive about the matter, it just unfortunately slipped through the cracks.

Alright, thanks for your answer.

I am very sceptical about this. Not that I don't believe what you're saying, but more that I find it hard that this is still an issue after all these years. It's not that nobody ever pointed this out to you

 

But, based on the improved forum presence, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. But for god's sake, actually start improving your internal communication then! Because this mistake or whatever you want to call it is really dumb.

 

 

As for the change itself, I don't agree with WG's standpoint on this, but at least I can understand your reasoning of "it's a ship discount, not doubloons".

[MrConway]

On 6/15/2018 at 4:05 PM, Bics93 said:

This won’t apply when buying something using a coupon, right? Like -30% coupon on Scharnhorst will give me 9500 doubloons or only 6650? 

 

I checked and this does not affect coupons. When using a coupon you will pay less for the selected package but will still receive the same amount of doubloon compensation as is listed in the package.

[__Helmut_Kohl__]

9 minutes ago, MrConway said:

I checked and this does not affect coupons. When using a coupon you will pay less for the selected package but will still receive the same amount of doubloon compensation as is listed in the package.

 

As always, thank you Mr.C.

[zaaaaaaP]

On 6/19/2018 at 11:58 AM, MrConway said:

 

I checked and this does not affect coupons. When using a coupon you will pay less for the selected package but will still receive the same amount of doubloon compensation as is listed in the package.

 

Thank for for checking on it.

 

So in the future that means: To get a real discount we require a coupon. The discounts we (as existing owners) see are... well, not true.

 

Edit: To those here who are like me and dont want to buy "discounted" bundles anymore right now... a friendly reminder that tomorrow the Steam Summer Sale begins, and will run until July 5th.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

On 6/19/2018 at 11:58 AM, MrConway said:

 

I checked and this does not affect coupons. When using a coupon you will pay less for the selected package but will still receive the same amount of doubloon compensation as is listed in the package.

 

 

Last night I got (due to my performance in game):

 

Quote

20% OFF SELECTED WoWS PACKAGES

Enjoy an exclusive 20% discount on a selection of World of Warships packages - valid for 7 days.

The coupon gives a one-time 20% discount on selected packages purchased in World of Warships. The coupon is valid for 7 days from the date of receipt and is not applicable to containers, doubloons, special offers, discounted items, or limited-time offers.

 

 

I re-bougt  "Atlanta" (which I already had) and got 9.000 Doubloons back.

 

Thus the 20% OFF coupon discount is still viable mean of buying cheaper Doubloons if you re-buy the "Premium" ship that you already have!

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

[Aragathor]

1 minute ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

 

 

Last night I got (due to my performance in game):

 

 

I re-bougt  "Atlanta" (which I already had) and got 9.000 Doubloons back.

 

Thus the 20% OFF coupon discount is still viable mean of buying cheaper Doubloons if you re-buy the "Premium" ship that you already have!

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

Yeah, that was stated by MrConway three posts above yours. The problem with it is that you need to get a coupon in the first place.

[Juanx]

On 18/6/2018 at 10:57 AM, MrConway said:

 

When we say that we need to improve communications, we also need to improve them internally. With the speed of development and changes sometimes things are not communicated optimally and buried in a pile of other information. In this case we realized that the compensation had changed when it was pointed out to us on reddit.

 

This is why we kicked of another internal discussion on the issue to decide how to go forward with this change and whether or not to compensate players that thought they would be getting the higher amount of compensation.

 

Our intention here was never to be secretive about the matter, it just unfortunately slipped through the cracks.

 

 

Honestly - I think its a great idea and have sent it along to devs for consideration :)

 

 

We are going to specifically point out the amount of compensation you get for each package in the description to make sure everyone knows what they get.

 

These ship discounts are supposed to be just that - ship discounts and not doubloon discounts.

 

 

An owner doesn't have that incentive anymore in this case. These ship discounts are intended to be discounts on the ships and not doubloons, so they are aimed at players who might want the ships and don't have them yet.

 

 

That is all very nice, too bad you have been dragging that line on the mud for the last few years.

 

When you say you "need to communicate better" and its clear its only to appease the "masses", why should I trust anything you or your employer says?

 

 

"We are going to specifically point out the amount of compensation you get for each package", you mean like you people are able to type anything correctly, from "base xp" listed as "XP" to various and repetitive fails on "communicating", why should any of us believe we are going to get whatever is written there?

[MrConway]

15 minutes ago, Juanx said:

 

That is all very nice, too bad you have been dragging that line on the mud for the last few years.

 

When you say you "need to communicate better" and its clear its only to appease the "masses", why should I trust anything you or your employer says?

 

 

"We are going to specifically point out the amount of compensation you get for each package", you mean like you people are able to type anything correctly, from "base xp" listed as "XP" to various and repetitive fails on "communicating", why should any of us believe we are going to get whatever is written there?

 

We're certainly not perfect when it comes to this kind of communication, but usually when we make a mistake in this kind of regard (like we did here) we compensate players for the difference.

[Juanx]

5 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

We're certainly not perfect when it comes to this kind of communication, but usually when we make a mistake in this kind of regard (like we did here) we compensate players for the difference.

 

What you really mean to say is: when we get caught with the hand in the cookie jar(again), we try as hard as possible to look innocent and apologetic, just to repeat the same offence in 8-12 weeks, just as usual.

 

Just dont forget many of us have been following WGs "policies" for quite a few years now...

[MrConway]

11 minutes ago, Juanx said:

 

What you really mean to say is: when we get caught with the hand in the cookie jar(again), we try as hard as possible to look innocent and apologetic, just to repeat the same offence in 8-12 weeks, just as usual.

 

Just dont forget many of us have been following WGs "policies" for quite a few years now...

 

If you want to cling to your belief that we try to sneak this kind of thing past our playerbase (as if that would work) then be my guest. Contrary to what some think, we genuinely care about our players and want to do right by them - anything else would be super stupid on our part anyway.

[principat121]

2 minutes ago, MrConway said:

we genuinely care about our players

I do not want to start a new argument and independed from the last intimation, but that is your view on one side of the medal. An other possible side is that mindfully players recognize intensified effords to "milk the cow" in the last year.

1. prices for camos in the premium shop more then doubled
2. risen prices for collection containers
3. ship packages inflated with useless stuff to push the price
4. compensation "nerf" for doubled premiums as mentioned in this thread
5. power creep with new ship (lines)
6. strip off the possibility to buy most of the premium ships ingame with gold (which lead to #3)
7. ...

And these are all together no "coincidences" - this is a whole new orientation of the business model "WoWs" and IMHO ordered from the top level. With this in mind every new "incident" will cause waves (of dissatisfaction with the game) and this diappointment will lead to such threads like this one here. No judgement from me, but just an observation.