From Reddit: "PSA: Buying premium ships on sale for cheap doubloons... it might be over"

[MrConway]

38 minutes ago, _Helmut_Kohl_ said:

 

Thx for the info!

 

While I understand the reasoning, I am not quite certain if it is a good decision.

I spent an awful lot of money on the game already, but only when I saw nice ways to get the most doubloons for my money. It actually made me spend a lot more, because I wanted to take advantage of the situation. And when you are sitting on that many doubloons, you continue spending those carelessly. 

 

So in fact, exploiting these possibilities made me spend way more money on the game overall.

 

 

 

We will still have doubloon discounts in future, but only when intended.

 

Thanks for the feedback @all, I will pass it along.

[Juanx]

2 minutes ago, MrConway said:

Thanks for the feedback @all, I will pass it along.

 

Thanks to you too, but dont bother, they have never looked at any of our feedback...

[Egoleter]

1 hour ago, MrConway said:

Now on to a more serious note, after some internal discussion we have decided how to proceed from this point.

 

First of all we would like to clarify the situation with premium ship doubloon compensation, as it has been causing some unintended confusion. It’s true that for a long period of time we have been offering full doubloon compensation for most cases where you bought a package containing a ship that you already owned on your account. This included packages which were discounted. However, we’ve recently noticed that a portion of our players have been using these mechanics to purchase discounted doubloons – a procedure we had not intended, but which we had tolerated until it reached a certain scale. Experience and data has shown that we cannot keep these mechanics, as well as keep offering packages with significant discounts. This prompted us to request changes from our Premium Shop team, which would alter the compensation for all ships to correspond to the actual cost of the content at the time of purchase (i.e. to compensate players who intentionally bought packages containing a ship they already owned with the discounted value of that ship). Unfortunately, while we had initially planned to implement these changes at a later date, they were applied to the shop in early May, catching everyone off guard.

 

We sincerely apologize for having failed to inform you about this change ahead of time. We do understand that while compensation amounts are not directly regulated, when a system behaves a certain way for a long period of time it contributes to creating habits and informing purchase decisions.

 

To that end, we would like to inform you that shortly after the release of update 0.7.6 we will compensate everyone who purchased discounted packages and received compensation for the ships therein, with the difference in doubloon value they missed out on. This will apply to all purchases made between May 1st and the release of update 0.7.6. - we are aiming at delivering this compensation during the first week of July.

 

At the same time, together with that update, these new compensation mechanics will be formalized and fully come into force, applying to all discounted packages going forward. This change will be stated in the update notes.

 

To prevent further confusion and remain transparent about the value you are getting, from that moment on we will also list all compensation values for Premium Shop content in all package descriptions, regardless of whether they are discounted or not. We will also update our Terms of Service to make sure they are not ambiguous about which content is compensated, when that compensation applies and which currency will be transferred to your accounts. 

 

We’re committed to improving communications and transparency, as well as maintaining a level playing field between regional communities. This yet again shows us how far we still have to go, but we sincerely hope you’ll all stay with us and guide us along the way.

I'm not sure that this is a wise decison.

 

You offer a rebate for the package content. Yet if the package content is already on the players account you refuse to offer the same rebate for the compensation. The compensations should be treated the same as the original offers. There needs to be a better solution to this.

 

If a lot of people use this to exploit the compensation (and I am guilty of that myself), then this might be a sign that they apply a different value to doubloons then you do. Maybe you should instead more often offer doubloons with similar discounts to single ships or ship packages. Most doubloon sales I remember (and that might be wrong), are in the single digit percentage range or limited to special payments (or both), while ships regularly get 20+ percent.

 

Edited the last senstence for clarification

[hgbn_dk]

Can only say I'm guilty using the old method of gaining cheap doubloons by buying discounted bundles. But that is money I wouldn't have spent on the game otherwise. So I might actually benefit from this decision and save a lot of money in the future. 

[_DemonGuard_]

I always thought WG would appreciate if i spend more money even after buying all the premium ships. But now, they are basically telling me, that they feel scammed by me buying more of their offers. I guess it was only me being naive.

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

@Sub_Octavian also posted exactly the same text on Reddit:

 

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[NothingButTheRain]

1 hour ago, _DemonGuard_ said:

Same for me: I used the cheaper doubloons to buy stuff i would normally not have bought. I'm not going to buy any bundles in the future, if they keep this change. The loss is definitely not on my side...

Even though I used this "trick" only once, it was the main reason I decided to spend most of those doubloons on premium camos in the game.

I do hope they will (in some way) offer extra discounts to kinda compensate for this as this game is kinda expensive and I'm so to say not one of the richest people on board 

[mrk421]

I'm sad to see there don't appear to be people with good business sense among WG decision makers.

As has been said before, people love to feel like they've gotten a good deal and this alone often makes them spend more money than they initially intended to. With this decision you'll be taking away a large portion of those "deals", which in turn makes people less inclined to spend their money. And no, a 10% "discount" on some doubloon bundle or getting 50% off on a bundle which is supposedly worth 200 € (and whose "full price" has been inflated by a bunch of goodies that no one really cares about too much), do not qualify as "good deals". I guess you'll have to learn the hard way when the revenues dip. And while I find it unlikely they'll reverse this particular decision, maybe, just maybe, this could lead to a lowering of the price level of goods on the Premium Shop and/or more attractive deals overall. Or, alternatively, they might move towards a more P2W model and strong arm their players into "coughing up".

 

I do, however, wholeheartedly welcome the changes you'll be making towards transparency of prices and compensation and the desire to improve transparency overall

 

PS. I also considered the possibility that there's another motivation to these changes, i.e. perhaps WG don't want to have too many premium ships in the queues or that everyone's sailing with a permanent camo; but looking at their past record I find it very unlikely that this is the case (even though both points are actually valid)

 

[Verblonde]

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

 

As others have said, this means I'll probably spend less on the game; I have pretty much all the premium ships I need (and then some!), so less expensive doubloons was one thing that I opened my wallet for on a regular basis.

 

I'm sure I'll still buy some doubloons, but my overall spend will drop as "f*ck it - it's cheap" no longer applies.

[Verblonde]

4 hours ago, MrConway said:

 

 

To that end, we would like to inform you that shortly after the release of update 0.7.6 we will compensate everyone who purchased discounted packages and received compensation for the ships therein, with the difference in doubloon value they missed out on. This will apply to all purchases made between May 1st and the release of update 0.7.6. - we are aiming at delivering this compensation during the first week of July.

 

 

May I clarify: does this mean that if we buy any packages before the next patch, we will get the reduced doubloon amount initially, and then the 'missing' amount applied retrospectively after 0.7.6 goes live?

 

i.e. we still have a few days to take advantage of the old methodology, should we wish?

[MrFingers]

I already posted in on reddit, but it's also on its place here.

 

Quote

However, it would be a nice thing that the devaluation of doubloons would come to a halt, and be reverted. The longer the game lasts, the fewer (useful) things one can buy with doubloons. Ever since 0.7.1 and the removal of the majority of the techtree premiums, a huge percentage of "possible uses" has been removed from the game. Sure, WG claims they offer "discounted ships" now with the new bundling practices in the premium shop, where a package of ship+slot+flags+doubloons+premium time+other gizmo's is offered at a discount compared to all those items alone, but that is not a true ship discount (quite often it still costs more than a full-price standalone ship). A true ship discount is a reduction of the price of the ship itself. Where are the days of -50% on T2-5 Premium ships, 30% on T6-7 & 15% on T8 ships, with an almost weekly carousel of techtree premiums at a discount. When a discount was actually a discount, and you weren't forced to buy additional stuff you do not necessarily want (or need).

 

I'm sitting on a small pile of doubloons, and there is currently nothing around here to spend it on. I'm not interested in vanity items, volatile items or a combination of the two. And as long as I've still got "currency" invested in this game, the hurdle for me is quite large to spend even more of my real money to get items one can not buy (anymore) for doubloons. So large in fact that I just don't spend anything anymore. And that hurdle became even bigger since now doubloons can't be bought at a worthwhile discount anymore (due to closing of some sort of loophole, for which I don't blame you). The discounts that are offered via coupons are laughable at best, and even somewhat insulting.

 

Please address, and fix if possible.

 

[Bics93]

This won’t apply when buying something using a coupon, right? Like -30% coupon on Scharnhorst will give me 9500 doubloons or only 6650? 

[mrk421]

@Bics93 My guess would be 6650

[JG4_sKylon]

Thanks WG for making it easier for me to NOT buy / buy less in your precious shop.

 

[MrConway]

1 hour ago, Verblonde said:

May I clarify: does this mean that if we buy any packages before the next patch, we will get the reduced doubloon amount initially, and then the 'missing' amount applied retrospectively after 0.7.6 goes live?

 

i.e. we still have a few days to take advantage of the old methodology, should we wish?

 

Correct!

[Miessa3]

5 hours ago, MrConway said:

Now on to a more serious note, after some internal discussion we have decided how to proceed from this point.

 

First of all we would like to clarify the situation with premium ship doubloon compensation, as it has been causing some unintended confusion. It’s true that for a long period of time we have been offering full doubloon compensation for most cases where you bought a package containing a ship that you already owned on your account. This included packages which were discounted. However, we’ve recently noticed that a portion of our players have been using these mechanics to purchase discounted doubloons – a procedure we had not intended, but which we had tolerated until it reached a certain scale. Experience and data has shown that we cannot keep these mechanics, as well as keep offering packages with significant discounts. This prompted us to request changes from our Premium Shop team, which would alter the compensation for all ships to correspond to the actual cost of the content at the time of purchase (i.e. to compensate players who intentionally bought packages containing a ship they already owned with the discounted value of that ship). Unfortunately, while we had initially planned to implement these changes at a later date, they were applied to the shop in early May, catching everyone off guard.

 

We sincerely apologize for having failed to inform you about this change ahead of time. We do understand that while compensation amounts are not directly regulated, when a system behaves a certain way for a long period of time it contributes to creating habits and informing purchase decisions.

 

To that end, we would like to inform you that shortly after the release of update 0.7.6 we will compensate everyone who purchased discounted packages and received compensation for the ships therein, with the difference in doubloon value they missed out on. This will apply to all purchases made between May 1st and the release of update 0.7.6. - we are aiming at delivering this compensation during the first week of July.

 

At the same time, together with that update, these new compensation mechanics will be formalized and fully come into force, applying to all discounted packages going forward. This change will be stated in the update notes.

 

To prevent further confusion and remain transparent about the value you are getting, from that moment on we will also list all compensation values for Premium Shop content in all package descriptions, regardless of whether they are discounted or not. We will also update our Terms of Service to make sure they are not ambiguous about which content is compensated, when that compensation applies and which currency will be transferred to your accounts. 

 

We’re committed to improving communications and transparency, as well as maintaining a level playing field between regional communities. This yet again shows us how far we still have to go, but we sincerely hope you’ll all stay with us and guide us along the way.

Hi @MrConway,

 

thank you for clarification even though I am not delighted by the message you bring. (except the fair compensation and vow to improve part).

Don't worry I won't shoot the messenger though.

 

I have a question regarding this.

When using those special discount coupons (you know the personal discount ones of 10-30% after maybe a good battle) will people still get the full doubloon compensation?

Because the ship itself is not marked as "discounted" and very likely the new shown doubloon compensation in the shop would show the "wrong" full doubloonprice (unless the skills of the IT-Department has improved A LOT from what I've seen so far and if they did please let them have a go at the games UI).

Also these coupons would be even less of an incentive to buy anything as all you could buy then at a real discount would be a normal premiumship (which are neither a special or timerestricted offer) that the couponowner doesn't have yet.....

And I thought those coupons where useless before with those restrictions... (no premiumtime, special/timerelated offers, no "raw" dubloons)

 

I would say you guys should at least let the coupon loophole in the shop as this is directly controlled by you too. (I bet WG can influence how many of those are given out)

[Verblonde]

33 minutes ago, MrConway said:

 

Correct!

Many thanks for the confirmation!

[MrConway]

1 hour ago, Bics93 said:

This won’t apply when buying something using a coupon, right? Like -30% coupon on Scharnhorst will give me 9500 doubloons or only 6650? 

 

We're looking into it and will let you know Monday - poke me if I forget :)

[MrConway]

2 hours ago, MrFingers said:

I already posted in on reddit, but it's also on its place here.

 

 

 

I had a conversation with some of our St Pete guys about this because this is feedback I often see around the forums and something I personally also agree with.

 

In short: We are aware of the problem and would really like players to have more choice of what to do with their doubloons in game.

 

Our intention is not to devalue doubloons, it is in fact the opposite. We already expanded the options by adding the economy flags to the client and are working on some other things I can't quite talk about yet. Soon(ish)™

[principat121]

Just now, MrConway said:

and are working on some other things I can't quite talk about yet.

Buying coal and steel for doubloons ingame...

[MrFingers]

1 hour ago, MrConway said:

We already expanded the options by adding the economy flags to the client

I have to give you that, as it is indeed a nice added feature. It however does not outweigh the slashing of premium ships and the techtree discounts (like in weekend specials) that stopped in 0.7.1 at all. Or the discounts on short(er) term premium time that happened in the past. Also the flags are bought in a "single purchase", thus at full value. No discounts possible when buying packs of 50/100/200/... For 100, you can since recently go to the premium store, where there is a quantity-discount of a few percent. But it's real money that needs to be spent, and that conflicts with having doubloons already in the bank. 

 

I don't have an issue with spending doubloons, don't get me wrong... But I want to feel that my spendings are worth it, which they currently would not be, either by quality of the items offered for doubloons, or the discounts one gives for stuff purchasable with doubloons. Prices in WoWS are quite high, you can't blame players/customers wanting to sweeten the pill a bit, and searching for discounts and "more bang4buck" wherever possible. 

 

Also I'm not blaming you for wanting to close a perceived loophole, but... I think it's going to work contrary to what the accountants will believe it does. Also it's another kick in the groin for the long term players & loyal veterans. New players can buy the ships at a discount, but older players that already have that ship (and could have very well bought it at full price, or in an expensive bundle) can't enjoy that discount anymore. And older players are very likely to already have accumulated quite a few ships. So getting at least doubloons at the displayed discount was a nice feature, eventhough the use of doubloons is currently limited. Now that will be gone, so the hurdle to spend money will become bigger. Why should a veteran now open up the wallet for? He doesn't get any discount whatsoever, and when doubloons do go on discount once in a blue moon (and you happen to have the correct payment method!), the discount is often not worth it in the first place.

[Bellegar]

8 hours ago, MrConway said:

Now on to a more serious note, after some internal discussion we have decided how to proceed from this point.

 

First of all we would like to clarify the situation with premium ship doubloon compensation, as it has been causing some unintended confusion. It’s true that for a long period of time we have been offering full doubloon compensation for most cases where you bought a package containing a ship that you already owned on your account. This included packages which were discounted. However, we’ve recently noticed that a portion of our players have been using these mechanics to purchase discounted doubloons – a procedure we had not intended, but which we had tolerated until it reached a certain scale. Experience and data has shown that we cannot keep these mechanics, as well as keep offering packages with significant discounts. This prompted us to request changes from our Premium Shop team, which would alter the compensation for all ships to correspond to the actual cost of the content at the time of purchase (i.e. to compensate players who intentionally bought packages containing a ship they already owned with the discounted value of that ship). Unfortunately, while we had initially planned to implement these changes at a later date, they were applied to the shop in early May, catching everyone off guard.

 

We sincerely apologize for having failed to inform you about this change ahead of time. We do understand that while compensation amounts are not directly regulated, when a system behaves a certain way for a long period of time it contributes to creating habits and informing purchase decisions.

 

To that end, we would like to inform you that shortly after the release of update 0.7.6 we will compensate everyone who purchased discounted packages and received compensation for the ships therein, with the difference in doubloon value they missed out on. This will apply to all purchases made between May 1st and the release of update 0.7.6. - we are aiming at delivering this compensation during the first week of July.

 

At the same time, together with that update, these new compensation mechanics will be formalized and fully come into force, applying to all discounted packages going forward. This change will be stated in the update notes.

 

To prevent further confusion and remain transparent about the value you are getting, from that moment on we will also list all compensation values for Premium Shop content in all package descriptions, regardless of whether they are discounted or not. We will also update our Terms of Service to make sure they are not ambiguous about which content is compensated, when that compensation applies and which currency will be transferred to your accounts. 

 

We’re committed to improving communications and transparency, as well as maintaining a level playing field between regional communities. This yet again shows us how far we still have to go, but we sincerely hope you’ll all stay with us and guide us along the way.

While I do not agree with the decision to change the compensation policy, I have to say that the solution to this is very nice! Also a nice gesture to give us another small opportunity to benefit from the 'old' policy.

 

Being my usual critical self though, I have one question.... If this was already implemented in May (although unplanned), why are you only telling us now? I mean, when did you find out it was implemented too early, and why didn't you announce the changes at that time?

 

Don't get me wrong, I think your solution for this is very fair. But I didn't forget the past communication mishaps, and I'm just wondering why you didn't inform us (and changed the terms of service) immediately when you found out the change was implemented prematurely.

 

 

Edit: and to end on a positive note... Yes, you are definately improving your communications. We get a lot more (helpful) forum presence from you guys than in the past. I hope you remember how critical I was about that, and realise how much that means coming from me ;)

I always like to point out the unfair and even (in my opinion at least) stupid things, but I'm also a strong advocate for 'credit where credit is due'. And it's definately due in this case (the world wide implementation of the same Collector's Club is a good example), so here's the credit:

[mrk421]

1 hour ago, MrConway said:

I had a conversation with some of our St Pete guys about this because this is feedback I often see around the forums and something I personally also agree with.

 

In short: We are aware of the problem and would really like players to have more choice of what to do with their doubloons in game.

 

Our intention is not to devalue doubloons, it is in fact the opposite. We already expanded the options by adding the economy flags to the client and are working on some other things I can't quite talk about yet. Soon(ish)™

@MrConway Perhaps this is a good time to pitch an idea I proposed some time ago on a thread where they suggested having in-game missions for earning certain OP premium ships that are no longer available:

 

On 5/19/2018 at 11:49 PM, mrk421 said:

[...]

 

But what if [...] there was a way to unlock premium ships on the Tech Tree!?! You'd still need to buy the ships in exchange for Doubloons (or perhaps in some cases FreeXP), but would be able to 'unlock' more ships to choose from than what's currently available in game. Ideally, you could unlock all premium ships ever offered that way, with the only exception being reward ships - ships that were/are given as a reward for alpha/beta testers and for ranked for example. Something like this would be a win-win for both WG and the players alike, IMO.

So the idea was that you'd have in-game missions which you could complete to unlock certain ships so that they'd appear on the tech tree. You'd still have to buy the ships, but could unlock more of them to choose from. I think this would address several things with one solution: 1) players would have more things to spend their in-game doubloons on - and even the ships that have been removed from the store are still available via Super containers, so I don't think having even those unlocked would be unreasonable; 2) It would provide additional things to do, keeping them engaged with the game for longer; 3) Provide additional income to WG, as players would still have to BUY the ships they unlock

 

How about it?

[Egoleter]

15 minutes ago, Bellegar said:

Edit: and to end on a positive note... Yes, you are definately improving your communications. We get a lot more (helpful) forum presence from you guys than in the past. I hope you remember how critical I was about that, and realise how much that means coming from me ;)

I always like to point out the unfair and even (in my opinion at least) stupid things, but I'm also a strong advocate for 'credit where credit is due'. And it's definately due in this case (the world wide implementation of the same Collector's Club is a good example), so here's the credit:

As one of the other very vocal and critical users, I have to agree to this. They are improving on their communication skills. Having a team that is now actually focused on one game really helped a lot in presenting a better image of Wargaming in regards to community work.

I think I mentioned it previously once or twice in other threads. If not, I did now.

[Nechrom]

I don't understand this policy change.

Why can't players who already own the ship get the full ship value in doubloons?

Players who don't own the ship already don't get only 70% of the ship they purchased. So why is the rest treated differently and getting only a part of what they paid for.

 

If you decide to go though with this change then you also need to correct the advertised discount %, or it's false advertising.