Aiming MOD Exposed!

[captainkavi]

remove these mods or lose the game before its even moved out of closed beta - there is a reason most of the main you-tubers stopped making videos already - people dont like these mods - even allowing them for 'testing' reasons is stupid - there is no reason to allow external mods which effect in game behavior or information

[shp]

I love playing against players using this mod, they just click at the red dot and keep missing because the do not realize how i am changing my course constantly. Every game peoples shells drop in the water where i would have been had i sailed straight =)

I don't know if it sad or hilarious to listen to the whining from those captains that sail in a straight line at constant speed, of course the only way to hit you is with aim assist, never mind that you do not even try to evade shots. I'm not the best shooter, but you can bet your [edited]that i will land salvo after salvo on your BB if you sail straight.

 

Tried the mod for one night, it became more of a distraction than help, i was looking at the red dot, not at what the enemy captains were doing. 

[MaxxyNL]

100% no mods needed to play this game correctly AND have fun.

 

Why use, for example, aiming bots? Try to learn the game mechanics, then you won't need any aiming bots or similar mods..

 

[Ramage2012]

I just bought into the CBT 2 days ago. All i can say is WARPACK! No, but this is the direction modders will take if WG doesn't take a strong stance on this. Cheaters will be cheaters but WG should do what they can reasonably to prevent them from gaining unfair advantages to the others (the rest of us.) 

 

As a fresh noob to WoWS the idea of an aiming mod already being present is an annoyance, but i think i'll live... for now. Something has to be done long term though i believe, some kind of anti-cheat/banned mod software? but hey - i'm no Dev and it's more than likely ALOT of work to make and even more of a pain in the [edited]to keep up to date. More than likely they will take the same approach as WoT and rely on reports/complaints in game.

 

Another approach could be to make it available for everyone as part of the game client. Personally this doesn't appeal to me. It seems that aiming is one of the skill sets required to be good or better at this game and taking that away will take away a bit of the fun/competitiveness from the game play for me.

[Flaz3]

I love playing against players using this mod, they just click at the red dot and keep missing because the do not realize how i am changing my course constantly. Every game peoples shells drop in the water where i would have been had i sailed straight =)

I don't know if it sad or hilarious to listen to the whining from those captains that sail in a straight line at constant speed, of course the only way to hit you is with aim assist, never mind that you do not even try to evade shots. I'm not the best shooter, but you can bet your [edited]that i will land salvo after salvo on your BB if you sail straight.

 

Tried the mod for one night, it became more of a distraction than help, i was looking at the red dot, not at what the enemy captains were doing. 

 

Zig zag is hard to hit with or without the mod. What you are doing is presuming everyone who is trying to hit you when you zig zag is using a mod and failing because of it. For me hitting you when you zig zag is much easier with mod because I just have to see what direction the dot is moving and anticipate it a bit to annihilate you even if you zig zag. I can do this without the mod also, but seeing the speed the red x is moving makes it so much easier.  I did have hard time hitting an Aoba without the mod though when he was zig zagging 13 km away from me and if I were still using mod then I would have probably landed most of my shots. I do not think people who use this mod would be stupid enough to only aim at the red x marker and not trying to anticipate it at all.

[Kyono]

Had a friendly Fuso on my team bragging about using the mod last night. He was constantly hitting the enemy BBs while never missing and gave out the mod name and a link to a website to get it. Lots of people in the chat were saying how they were going to go and get it right after the match.

 

Pretty soon 90% of the playerbase will be using this cheat and the game will die. 

 

Get it sorted WarGaming! 

[shp]

What also helps with hitting zig zagging ships is the huge spread of the shots, when you shoot 12 barrels with a spread of over 100m you don't even have to be spot on with your aim =)

[SupraWez]

 

This bots needs blocking, why would such things be allowed?

 

[Grim_Destiny]

I just bought into the CBT 2 days ago. All i can say is WARPACK! No, but this is the direction modders will take if WG doesn't take a strong stance on this. Cheaters will be cheaters but WG should do what they can reasonably to prevent them from gaining unfair advantages to the others (the rest of us.)

 

As a fresh noob to WoWS the idea of an aiming mod already being present is an annoyance, but i think i'll live... for now. Something has to be done long term though i believe, some kind of anti-cheat/banned mod software? but hey - i'm no Dev and it's more than likely ALOT of work to make and even more of a pain in the [edited]to keep up to date. More than likely they will take the same approach as WoT and rely on reports/complaints in game.

 

Another approach could be to make it available for everyone as part of the game client. Personally this doesn't appeal to me. It seems that aiming is one of the skill sets required to be good or better at this game and taking that away will take away a bit of the fun/competitiveness from the game play for me.

 

I don`t believe it matters. While making aiming a bit easier and levelling the field in that dimension of gameplay, also increases the importance of other gameplay dimensions.

If aiming is made more accessible to all players, then "situational awareness", "positioning" and "coordination" (between players) become far more important.

 

The aiming mod only brings a slight shift to where personal skills make the biggest difference.

 

I feel most people in this thread are being extremely hypocritical and self-serving. The loudest people in the thread want aiming to remain as is, because it`s an easy way to gain advantage over other players. "situational awareness" and "positioning" are more complex skills to develop and "coordination" being a teambased skill doesn`t lend itself to certain players "rambo" aspirations.

 

I`ve played at least a hundred games since this aiming mod discussion blew up. I have not had a single game where i experienced this mod as a negative issue. But then again, i never put much emphasis in the aiming bit anyway. Being in a superior position when the shooting starts and being aware of the evolving situation, has always been far more important than being able to hit something at 20km.

 

Projectile traversal time is 20 Seconds at Extreme ranges. If you can`t Dodge that, you`re not really trying.

 

Again. All the aiming mod does is give everyone access to hitting stuff. It doesn`t mean they generally get more kills or become better players. Being a good player involves far more than than aiming. Other skills are far more important and become even MORE important after the implementation of this mod.

 

 

 

 

[Nisargananda]

 

I don`t believe it matters. The while making aiming a bit easier and levelling the field in that dimension of gameplay, also increases the important of other gameplay dimensions.

If aiming is made more accessible to all players, then "situational awareness", "positioning" and "coordination" (between players) become far more important.

 

The aiming mod only brings a slight shift to where personal skills make the biggest difference.

 

I feel most people in this thread are being extremely hypocritical and self-serving. The loudest people in the thread want aiming to remain as is, because it`s an easy way to gain advantage over other players. "situational awareness" and "positioning" are more complex skills to develop and "coordination" being a teambased skill doesn`t lend itself to certain players "rambo" aspirations.

 

I`ve played at least a hundred games since this aiming mod discussion blew up. I have not had a single game where i experienced this mod as a negative issue. But then again, i never put much emphasis in the aiming bit anyway. Being in a superior position when the shooting starts and being aware of the evolving situation, has always been far more important than being able to hit something at 20km.

 

Projectile traversal time is 20 Seconds at Extreme ranges. If you can`t Dodge that, you`re not really trying.

 

Again. All the aiming mod does is give everyone access to hitting stuff. It doesn`t mean they generally get more kills or become better players. Being a good player involves far more than than aiming. Other skills are far more important and become even MORE important after the implementation of this mod.

 

 

 

 

 

Good thinking,

[pifkaa]

 

Please, Failjin is currently pissing off their RB/SB pilots by restricting the RB/SB battles to event based only, introducing AB maps in RB. Not to mention that BR of a large numbe rof planes/tanks is just ridicolous.

Anyone heared about ppl threaten by ingame/forums bans due to the things they say about WT in one of their videos/forum posts ?

 

The urban myth that Gaijin is 'better' than WG is just that, a myth.

 

I dont play Gaijin games, tried and although they like really solvet every single issue WOT has - they didnt make a better game by my opinion

 

 

[Noirschwert]

i'm so confused , what is meaning when i use manual aim and use scope?
Even i willing to open a post to suggest improve the shooting, it seems not much important anymore
i don't need to share more feeling on this cheating mod, coz most of players who refuse the mod have shared the feeling as same as mine

And I feel extremely disappointed that wg still have not any clear response on this issue, and feel its still normal without any sence of awareness!

It have been damaged it's image that over my expectation, and more new players( almost my soical group) have given up the game
How wg developers can ignore this issue, no one will have more interest EVEN INTRODUCE ANY NEW SONTENT
What if these kind of mod have approved in wows... job done, as same as wowp
 

[Ramage2012]

 

I don`t believe it matters. While making aiming a bit easier and levelling the field in that dimension of gameplay, also increases the importance of other gameplay dimensions.

If aiming is made more accessible to all players, then "situational awareness", "positioning" and "coordination" (between players) become far more important.

 

The aiming mod only brings a slight shift to where personal skills make the biggest difference.

 

I feel most people in this thread are being extremely hypocritical and self-serving. The loudest people in the thread want aiming to remain as is, because it`s an easy way to gain advantage over other players. "situational awareness" and "positioning" are more complex skills to develop and "coordination" being a teambased skill doesn`t lend itself to certain players "rambo" aspirations.

 

I`ve played at least a hundred games since this aiming mod discussion blew up. I have not had a single game where i experienced this mod as a negative issue. But then again, i never put much emphasis in the aiming bit anyway. Being in a superior position when the shooting starts and being aware of the evolving situation, has always been far more important than being able to hit something at 20km.

 

Projectile traversal time is 20 Seconds at Extreme ranges. If you can`t Dodge that, you`re not really trying.

 

Again. All the aiming mod does is give everyone access to hitting stuff. It doesn`t mean they generally get more kills or become better players. Being a good player involves far more than than aiming. Other skills are far more important and become even MORE important after the implementation of this mod.

 

 

 

 

 

I do see your point & i agree that the other skill sets are important to learn and master. However, are we to assume that everyone cannot aim or cannot learn and master aiming? It would only be beneficial for noobs really (like me.) I've played the game for 2 days now and my aim is improving for sure. When you fire your first shot at the enemy and you hit first time (RNG permitting) that is a good skill to acquire currently. With the aiming mod you're aiming skill is negated, as you have a place marker to fire at. If the enemy is maneuvering and the place marker is irrelevant why have it at all? Surely this will lead to modders creating aiming mods which take into account enemy movements too, which i think would really dumb down the game play. In my opinion an aiming mod would take the challenge and skill out of aiming, which to me is a key portion of this games skill set. Yet, i have much to learn and i'm having so much fun doing so! 

 

If we were discussing a mod that threw up a massive visual warning to turn your ship before the land indicator alarm goes off would that negate your situational awareness and dumb down gameplay? I think so. Mind you, if someone is consistently heading into land or missing shots is this the game for them?

[AbrahaM_fighter]

 

Projectile traversal time is 20 Seconds at Extreme ranges. If you can`t Dodge that, you`re not really trying.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I can't state that this is not true, but this is manipulation.

 

 

Of course you are right someone may/should change speed and/or course in every.. seconds to avoid salvos from Battleship or Cruiser. But try to do that when "Battleship enemy" is using his turrets one by one, correcting turrets every few seconds, or against Cruiser. What's worse: he will have updated info about your position, and he could guess what manuver you are making at the moment by observing aimlead marker. In case of cruiser with aimlead mod and with reload time ~6sec you may put white flag on your ship... Sorry, but no one can successfully change speed/course in every 5.3 to 10 seconds in long term, AND in meanwhile attack enemy. This is scenario where you are attacked by only one aimlead mod enemy. When more than one enemy with aimlead will fire at you, you will not have any chance to survive.

 

It's quite possible that you have luck / almost no one in enemy team was using that... [autocensored] mod, but there is visible difference between battle with legit players (which usualy tends to be more or less balanced) and with mod users, when after minute you see "duck shouting festvial"...

 

In my opining aimlead mod is giving unfair advantage, which could not be compensated (enough). It could be compensated a bit, shoting with mod to skilled player wouldn't be trivial, but still mod is providing (too) strong advantage, and is ruining game balance. It should not be allowed in "random battles", however it could be implemented in "coop battles" (maybe for limited number of battles) and "training", as kind of help, which would allow to learn quicly how to aim correctly.

 

[Flaz3]

 

I don`t believe it matters. While making aiming a bit easier and levelling the field in that dimension of gameplay, also increases the importance of other gameplay dimensions.

If aiming is made more accessible to all players, then "situational awareness", "positioning" and "coordination" (between players) become far more important.

 

The aiming mod only brings a slight shift to where personal skills make the biggest difference.

 

I feel most people in this thread are being extremely hypocritical and self-serving. The loudest people in the thread want aiming to remain as is, because it`s an easy way to gain advantage over other players. "situational awareness" and "positioning" are more complex skills to develop and "coordination" being a teambased skill doesn`t lend itself to certain players "rambo" aspirations.

 

I`ve played at least a hundred games since this aiming mod discussion blew up. I have not had a single game where i experienced this mod as a negative issue. But then again, i never put much emphasis in the aiming bit anyway. Being in a superior position when the shooting starts and being aware of the evolving situation, has always been far more important than being able to hit something at 20km.

 

Projectile traversal time is 20 Seconds at Extreme ranges. If you can`t Dodge that, you`re not really trying.

 

Again. All the aiming mod does is give everyone access to hitting stuff. It doesn`t mean they generally get more kills or become better players. Being a good player involves far more than than aiming. Other skills are far more important and become even MORE important after the implementation of this mod.

 

 

 

 

 

Ofc I'm self serving, this is an PvP game! Team death match. saying that people are self serving in a game that awards you based on your individual damage and kills and not by team members equally is being hypocritical the way I see it.

 

/edit: what about the maker of this aiming assist mod? was he not self serving when he first made this mod to gain advantage over others?

[RandyWookie]

If I`d get a cookie every time I hear this I`d weight 200 kilos now.

 

How much do you weigh? ;)

[Grim_Destiny]

 

 

I can't state that this is not true, but this is manipulation.

 

 

Of course you are right someone may/should change speed and/or course in every.. seconds to avoid salvos from Battleship or Cruiser. But try to do that when "Battleship enemy" is using his turrets one by one, correcting turrets every few seconds, or against Cruiser. What's worse: he will have updated info about your position, and he could guess what manuver you are making at the moment by observing aimlead marker. In case of cruiser with aimlead mod and with reload time ~6sec you may put white flag on your ship... Sorry, but no one can successfully change speed/course in every 5.3 to 10 seconds in long term, AND in meanwhile attack enemy. This is scenario where you are attacked by only one aimlead mod enemy. When more than one enemy with aimlead will fire at you, you will not have any chance to survive.

 

It's quite possible that you have luck / almost no one in enemy team was using that... [autocensored] mod, but there is visible difference between battle with legit players (which usualy tends to be more or less balanced) and with mod users, when after minute you see "duck shouting festvial"...

 

In my opining aimlead mod is giving unfair advantage, which could not be compensated (enough). It could be compensated a bit, shoting with mod to skilled player wouldn't be trivial, but still mod is providing (too) strong advantage, and is ruining game balance. It should not be allowed in "random battles", however it could be implemented in "coop battles" (maybe for limited number of battles) and "training", as kind of help, which would allow to learn quicly how to aim correctly.

 

 

I do see your point and i did write up some proposols in a different thread. It got closed so I`ll repost my understanding of the issue and my gameplay suggestions here...

 

 

Current so called "aiming mod" serves a legitimate need, but the fact you can calculate where to fire long before a ship comes out from behind a mountain is an objective negative aspect of the Third party aiming mod.

 

The above text in bold is important because there are some inherent problems here. Having a " lead indicator" is not a major issue, it`s how the indicator gets it information that is important here. The Third party aiming solution uses "Visual intel" gathered by all ships on the team to create tracking information that allow players to shoot at targets they should NOT have precise information on. Especially since they cannot even see them. This is where the Third party aiming solution is problematic. It`s ability to generate firing solutions in general, serves a legitimate purpose.

 

My suggestion

is that we need to look at how information is shared between ships in the game and turn it into relevant game mechanics that serve to make the game interesting and better balanced.

 

Currently information is shared automatically. When the fighters on my carrier spot a ship, the information is automatically shared With everyone on my team. Similarly when a destroyer find a ship, everyone else on the team can see it. This Automatic sharing of information is not only a wasted opportunity, but it also provides "free" information to Third party mods.

 

So how can we change the flow on information and turn in into a part of the game?

 

Imagine that the act of "detection" is restricted to the unit doing the actual "detecting" and the information remains With that unit until it is shared. Now imagine that sharing this information (the act of "transmitting") makes Your unit vulnerable to triangulation (e.g you can be found). Do you share the information and risk making Your position known or do you remain "radio silent" in order to preserve Your stealth in order to execute a surprise attack?

 

Now imagine the following scenario:

My fighters deploy and one of them come across the hostile carrier. My fighter "transmits" the information to my carrier and i relay the information to the rest of the team. Information relayed is general position and track and not precise enough for People to start shooting. Now a destroyer in my team can start hunting for the carrier and attempt a surprise attack.

 

 

How would you Balance should "information warfare"? - By implementing actual WWII Technologies that served those very purposes.

 

Radio Tech Upgrades: Modifies visibility vs concealment. Modifies "Fog of War". Modifies importance of "Picture compilation" among team members Ship, Aircraft and ships have different radio ranges. Units MUST transmit their Visual Picture or contacts, in order for that information to be available to other players. I.e you can no longer see what other players can see unless they actively relay the information by way of radio. Radio transmissions have 3 settings- "Active" = transmit all the time, "Transmit" = single transmission of current Picture, "Passive" = No transmissions, ONLY reception. "Passive" is likely the most exciting since recon units can transmit information and "Passive" units can move to execute surprise attacks. Essential Tech for Carriers and Destroyers

 

Radio Direction Finders (RDF): Early Tech consituted by "loop antennas" and Upgrades represented by "Bellini-Tosi". RDF means that units can locate the origin of hostile radio traffic. Especially usefull for units operating on "Passive" radio settings and searching for the hostile units.

 

Radio Detection and Ranging (RADAR): Modifies visibility vs concealment. Ships from late thirties have the basic RADAR. Later ships receive Upgrade options for "height radars" (air search) as well, more complex surface radar and simple radar guided main turrets. Plays an important part in "Fog of War", but is also highly relevant for nighttime operations and weather types should these ever be implemented. These also have different setting similar to the Radio.

 

ON ENDING:

The concept here is to make "information" an integral part of the game and maintain the high importance of positioning as well as teamplay. This would remove the objectively unfair part of the Third party aiming mod, while keeping its usefull aspects.

 

My suggestions would help keep the game "skill based" and also reduce the occurance of solo rambo ships. This is afterall supposed to be a teambased game. 

 

Screaming for the removal of "aiming aid" is a cheap approach. My approach allows for greater ease of entry for less than stellar players who want to have fun driving ships. My approach also keeps the game skill intensive and deepens the teamrelated aspect. For those who want a skill based game these suggestions should be just the right thing.

 

Skill SHOULD be rewarded - teamplay SHOULD be rewarded. My approach is both accommodating and provides added depth to gameplay.

[OVanBruce]

Those ideas may have been taken in consideration if we were still on alpha and you were russian but at this stage of development I doubt they would implement that.

 

Besides it would make the game more complicated than what it is probably intended.

[Ramage2012]

I can see a use for the aim assistance mod, but it should be restricted to a single player bot tutorial prior to being able to take a tier 1 for a fight for the first time similar to WoT. It could even be re-playable in the game menu and incorporate all the basics required to get better at this game. so people can get an immediate visual feeling of how to lead shots etc. Then in their tier 1/2/3 games against bots they can try to hone their "skills" without the aim assistance mod.

 

We all want this game to be popular & fun. If people feel they have to resort to an aim assistant mod, then I don't think it will encourage good game play. WG should try to support those people into developing their skills. 

[sunday]

OVanBruce, on 17 April 2015 - 07:24 PM, said:

 

Good for you! Not so good for 95% of the people here though.

 

If as "here" you mean this thread, well, I do not think that more of 5% of the current tester/player base has bothered to post here.
 

Grim_Destiny, on 18 April 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

 

I don`t believe it matters. While making aiming a bit easier and levelling the field in that dimension of gameplay, also increases the importance of other gameplay dimensions.

If aiming is made more accessible to all players, then "situational awareness", "positioning" and "coordination" (between players) become far more important.

 

The aiming mod only brings a slight shift to where personal skills make the biggest difference.

 

I feel most people in this thread are being extremely hypocritical and self-serving. The loudest people in the thread want aiming to remain as is, because it`s an easy way to gain advantage over other players. "situational awareness" and "positioning" are more complex skills to develop and "coordination" being a teambased skill doesn`t lend itself to certain players "rambo" aspirations.

 

I`ve played at least a hundred games since this aiming mod discussion blew up. I have not had a single game where i experienced this mod as a negative issue. But then again, i never put much emphasis in the aiming bit anyway. Being in a superior position when the shooting starts and being aware of the evolving situation, has always been far more important than being able to hit something at 20km.

 

Projectile traversal time is 20 Seconds at Extreme ranges. If you can`t Dodge that, you`re not really trying.

 

Again. All the aiming mod does is give everyone access to hitting stuff. It doesn`t mean they generally get more kills or become better players. Being a good player involves far more than than aiming. Other skills are far more important and become even MORE important after the implementation of this mod.

 

 

 

 

 

Good reasoning. I would delete the "hypocritical and self-serving" bit - there are no information enough about the ultimate intentions of posters in this thread.
 

[Grim_Destiny]

 

Good reasoning. I would delete the "hypocritical and self-serving" bit - there are no information enough about the ultimate intentions of posters in this thread.

 

The hypocritical and self-serving comment is not meant cruelly, but as a matter of fact.

 

Nobody wants change, period. People really don`t want change to anything that benefits them. That`s just human nature.

 

We`re beta testers though. It is our purpose to test and to discuss, even the things we care about and don`t want other touching.

 

Calling each other names, Screaming and yelling at each other and at the developer is not helpfull. Threatening to hurt the financial situation of the developer of the game to which you are a beta tester, is not only a complete misunderstanding of what it means to be a beta tester, but an act utterly bereft of reason.  Luckily there are also more reasonable people both on the forum and in this thread. Maybe these calmer heads can discuss the issue in a deeper way..

 

Those ideas may have been taken in consideration if we were still on alpha and you were russian but at this stage of development I doubt they would implement that.

 

Besides it would make the game more complicated than what it is probably intended.

 

This would be incredibly sad, were it to be true. I hope they`re interested in more opinions than the russion ones.

 

It is a bit more complicated I agree, but to me it`s also more interesting and allows for more tactics than merely shooting and praying to the RNG gods. It would also be closer to actual naval warfare in WWII. Consider how it not only incorporates the aiming mod, but also allows for aditional interesting game modes. Think about all of this in relation to a "kill the carrier" game mode or "attack/defend the convoy". The possibilities...

 

 

[krautjaeger]

One thing though, while totally against this mod, if WG wants the players to have some kind of ability for aim-assist I would much rather they did something themselves and let people choose and ban this mod and any like it. At least then there'd be some kind of control over it, and we'd even have some say in how it could/should be implemented/nerfed.

[DBaron]

 

/snip

 

I fear that would move the game a bit too far from arcadish style towards sim style. Adding another layer for people to think about would probably be too much for the casual gamer who just wants to join and shoot up stuff and resulting in ppl either in ppl not using it at all or just sticking to auto mode which would just stir in balance waters. The "tactical depth" is already in the game, ppl are just ignoring objectives or team play, adding this will not result in an improvement in either of those areas.

 

Besides, although I am no software engineer, I think we are at too late a stage to implement something like this anytime soon as many mechanics would have to be revamped around it.

[KptStrzyga]

 

How much do you weigh? ;)

 

100 

[Grim_Destiny]

One thing though, while totally against this mod, if WG wants the players to have some kind of ability for aim-assist I would much rather they did something themselves and let people choose and ban this mod and any like it. At least then there'd be some kind of control over it, and we'd even have some say in how it could/should be implemented/nerfed.

 

I agree. While I think there is a place for a "lead indicator" in the game, I certainly think it should be made by WG. The one in the mod looks like crap and is definately immersion-breaking.

 

 

I fear that would move the game a bit too far from arcadish style towards sim style. Adding another layer for people to think about would probably be too much for the casual gamer who just wants to join and shoot up stuff and resulting in ppl either in ppl not using it at all or just sticking to auto mode which would just stir in balance waters. The "tactical depth" is already in the game, ppl are just ignoring objectives or team play, adding this will not result in an improvement in either of those areas.

 

Besides, although I am no software engineer, I think we are at too late a stage to implement something like this anytime soon as many mechanics would have to be revamped around it.

 

This is likely true. The casuals-only players have the deathmatch game mode where my ideas would have less impact due to the small maps. I`m betting there are plenty of other players though who would enjoy more elaborate gameplay on larger maps.

 

The main point though, was to make a point of where the current aiming mod becomes overpowered (free information) and present suggestions on how to make it (information) a gameplay asset. I do this so as not to seem merely anti, but also constructive.