Aiming MOD Exposed!

[Andreevson]

IF this mod is allowed, I'd still play the game, but I wont buy ANYTHING.

If the mod is banned, I would spend money on the game.

 

Its that simple.

[pifkaa]

 

This mod is easy to counter, don`t ever sail with one curse more than 10 seconds, change speed all the time. And watch salvos falling everywhere around. 

 

If its useless, ban it. (it obviously causes clashes between players)

If its not useless, ban it.

;)

[TheOneAndOnlyGoldstein]

I haven't gone through the entire 32-page almanac on this issue, but might I remind you that in WoT there are much worse mods used (hitboxes, aim assists, enemy reload counters, XVM etc) and like in WoWS those can't be banned without banning all mods together, including the innocent ones like custom paintjobs.

[KptStrzyga]

 

If its useless, ban it. (it obviously causes clashes between players)

If its not useless, ban it.

;)

 

No, it`s not useless. Did you see screenshots with results of battles I posted? It all happend first or second day after this topic started. Today I was still playing with this mod but results weren`t so... overwhelming. Everyone now has it. And today hitting someone just became also much more difficult. Ppl are learning and adapting. This mod changes game, even very much, but it`s not making it unplayable. It removes some kind of skill from it, but also gives something else in return. Skill of steering your ship to avoid hits.

 

But tbh if you see BB shooting salvo 20 kilometers from you and you don`t change course you deserve to be hit. Even with this mod cruiser can still avoid hits from 10 clicks. Killing destroyer from 15 kilometers? I`ll believe when I see it, those little guys are to clever for this. Stories about 3 citadel hits in a row from maximu range from BB are just... I don`t know how to call them. Panic? It must be luck. We all know how accurate BB are, we all know that even perfectly aimed salvo rarely hits. And this salvo flies so long that you can avoid it easly, unless you don`t even try, citadel hits shot after shot after shot is just pure RNG not this mod.

 

If WG will find a way to deal with this mod and remove it I will be very happy, but if don`t (it can be very difficult if not impossible since it takes data from client and can be undetectable) I say let`s implement to the game. Game has to be fair. Honorabru. 

Just try it, you`ll see for yourself, this mod isn`t as bad as everyone is imagining it. It`s not some "hit every time" magic. It just changes game to the point it will need rebalancing, that`s all. Aren`t we here for this? To help WG find solutions for this kind of problems?

 

 

[mtm78]

I haven't gone through the entire 32-page almanac on this issue, but might I remind you that in WoT there are much worse mods used (hitboxes, aim assists, enemy reload counters, XVM etc) and like in WoWS those can't be banned without banning all mods together, including the innocent ones like custom paintjobs.

 

Wait wait.. why is an aim assist worse in WoT then in WoWS, that makes ZERO sense at all. Edit: won't even comment on XVM lol...

 

@KptStrygzya I killed dd's at 15km with my Pensacola / New Orleans, they sailed in a straight line. Can you blame me, or should they learn to hit Q and E more often? Also there are most certainly bb's landing every salvo at max range, some bb players even know not aim at the star but take into account my rudder position and speed changes  Those are most often the people though who wouldn't need an aim assist in the first place, but with it they are even more deadly. 

 

I agree with your statement though that it's not per definition a bad thing, they can add it to vanilla game for all I care but I do hope we will get a game mode without it as well. The battles I had a few weeks back, while lasting longer and ending in a draw more often, where also very exciting because landing good shots took more skill then it does now. 

[Ley1]

wot ` s got autoaim, and i dont see anyone complaining about that.

[Xevious_Red]

The bit that makes me feel bad is yesterday I was in a fuso (I'm not using the mod), saw an enemy fuso behind an island 18km away. Took a rough guess based on position of marker where he would be and fired off. Citadel hit. He's fired back and citadel hit me too.

There's back and forth firing and each of us is on target - this guy is good, he can land shells amidships while im in a full turn (I suck at hitting people on the turn).

Our courses take different directions, and we start shooting at different targets. I get 2 kills, he gets 3.

Game's near its end and we're closing in on each other. We kill each other in our final volley.

 

Now at this point we've done roughly equal and I don't mind if he's using the mod or not - it's testing after all so would be interesting to compare scores with mod vs scores without.

 

So I ask. And he's not. And now I feel bad because I've essentially implied his accuracy is because of an aim assist not skill.

 

 

Luckily he didn't take it badly and there was GG allround but i still feel crappy for having to ask.

Props to Waldorf for being a great opponent.

[Shepbur]

Wait wait.. why is an aim assist worse in WoT then in WoWS, that makes ZERO sense at all. Edit: won't even comment on XVM lol...

 

The difference in WoWs is that here you still have to move your mouse to hit the target, i believe the WoT one is an automatic "aimbot". 

Think of this mod more like the lead-aim markers in WoWp and WT arcade aircraft battles.

[TheOneAndOnlyGoldstein]

wot ` s got autoaim, and i dont see anyone complaining about that.

 

Anyone who played WoT (me included) would tell you that the autoaim the game comes with is the absolute garbage and useless: it always picks the most armoured spots and it doesn't compensate in times when the tank is, for example, hauling [edited].

[Xevious_Red]

Auto aim on WoT: 

Aims at center mass (most armoured point) - tanks involves hitting weak spots, not the most armoured part

Doesn't take into account that center point is behind cover - most battles involves small parts of the tank poking out.

Doesn't factor movement into it - aims at where the tank is, not where its going to be.

In WoT moving makes you vastly more innacurate, so its not even that useful for "drive bys"

 

Essentially not that useful, and thus not really used.

 

WoWP aim assist:

A point that shows you where to aim. This is because actually getting your guns to point at the correct spot is hard enough - you have to move your entire plane. So if you want to aim down and left you either need to dive and use your rudder (think thats what its called) to slowly move onto target, or spin your entire plane and pull up. Now try doing that while already turning sharply. Without hitting a mountain. Steering your own plane onto target is 90% of the battle.

 

WoWS:

You have a stable platform to fire from that already tracks the target. You have very little to crash into, and even then its not usually fatal (unlike falling off a cliff in tanks/hitting a mountain in planes).

In ships you WANT to aim for the center mass as thats where the big boom is. The skill comes from placing those shots.

[Ley1]

 

Anyone who played WoT (me included) would tell you that the autoaim the game comes with is the absolute garbage and useless: it always picks the most armoured spots and it doesn't compensate in times when the tank is, for example, hauling [edited].

 

True, and here you have to manually shoot that precalculated target, so its not even an autoaim.You still have to shoot and steer , in wot you just have to steer once you right-clicked.

[praetor_jax]

wot ` s got autoaim, and i dont see anyone complaining about that.

 

In WoT an aimbot (even a really good one that goes for weakspots and can could lead a moving target) would by far not have that much influence than a simple target leader does here.

 

Simply hitting a tank is not all you need to do - you also have to hit it in the right spots to cause any damage at all.

A tank can change direction and speed almost in an instant - and the areas you need to hit are sometimes only a few decimeters wide.

A tank can (and does) use cover almost all the time - and pop out of it and back in frequently (yes some ppl try tat with the ship too, but everybody with torpedoes is gonna feast on them).

 

Actively dodging shots is something that ships do - tanks need to avoid getting shot at in the first place.

 

Here just hitting a ship dead centre is already good.

[valkarianism]

 

Tuccy's original thread and statement can be found here.

 

The most imortant thing you need to take from the thread is this:

"The devs are following the statistics and the feedback - and preparing both countermeasures to harmful mods, easier installation of harmless mods... and so on. "

 

And this:

"Main thing, though... is to stay calm. We are in a test stage, the more we find out now, the more we can prepare for before the next stages of the game. In the spirit of this... we are eager to hear your feedback, but try to keep your passions under control, avoid name calling and ad hominem directed personal attacks against players who do not share your point of view. "

 

Actually as we speak I am gathering detailed feedback about this issue, and I can assure you the feelings of the community have been made very clear. We are still a game in beta guys, and I assure you your feedback is currently and will continuously be used in the development of the final product.

 

Please bare in mind that any potential changes will not happen overnight, but also that we are listening to you! 

 

All the best,

-Grim

 

It's all well and good that at least WG are willing to take note of the issue.

 

However, I would like to emphasize what the point of this thread initially was.

 

I am, and I believe many others are as well, simply looking for WG's stand on the matter. Solutions can come later. Be it to ban mods all together, or to implement the system into the game. Players want to know if this mod is supposed to part of the game. I believe that if WG comes out and disapproves of these types of mods, players will begin to shun the style all together. In delaying the announcement of WG's stand on the matter, players are unsure of the course that the game will take, and will not be able to continue testing the game effectively.

 

Personally, I am unable to bring myself to play Battleships or Cruisers simply because I currently want to avoid gunnery battles all together. 

 

Do please arrive at a decision on whether to approve or disapprove of the matter as soon as possible. It will seriously allow players to better understand the direction that the game wishes to take and hence better feedback can be generated.

[WittoEU]

I am surprised something like this exists. Though I should be I guess.

[Lile]

wot ` s got autoaim, and i dont see anyone complaining about that.

 

Maybe because unlike in WoTs closed beta autoaim is not including any lead? Just an educated guess....

[ThePluckyBrit]

Why is this even a factor, just look at some of the videos, I don't care if people are lucky, skilled or using an aimbot, as far as I'm concerned now, everyone is using it. 

 

Toxic and game destroying. 

[Pain_Iradlac]

It does not matter if this mod is good , bad or down right ugly. I would rather know IF WG can ban this mod. I am not sure how they will detect you using it without screen shots, you tube or twitch feed of you using it. So everyone can scream BAN it, But how. Please someone suggest to me how they can prove it.

[dan_can]

 Why is this even a factor, just look at some of the videos, I don't care if people are lucky, skilled or using an aimbot, as far as I'm concerned now, everyone is using it. 

 

Wrong, but it highlights another effect this (and similar) mods have on your WoWS experience, b/c everytime someone lands a hit from a distance you cannot shake the nagging suspicion that he/she might be using the mod to enhance their 'skills'.

I'm aware that WG has a pretty open API in order to promote mod creation, but they have to make sure that core game mechanics are not impaired by 3rd party software. Past experiences do not bode well though...

[Et_Lanatus_baro]

I personally don't believe everyone is using it, I've had a plenty of games the past few days and havent been hit by any suspect shots bar once or twice(maybe I'm just lucky), The biggest problem now is the suspicion it's  causing amongst the community where people are accusing genuinally good shots to be 'aim assisted' even the other day I was talking to a few guys on TS whilst playing and one hit a very good shot on the first salvo and instantly he said. "oh I'm gonna be called an aimbotter for that now" which is wrong because it was just a good shot but this is the main problem with crappy silly mods like this,  its the toxicity and suspicion it causing between everyone and for that reason alone it should be removed.

[anr96]

Why is this even a factor, just look at some of the videos, I don't care if people are lucky, skilled or using an aimbot, as far as I'm concerned now, everyone is using it. 

 

Toxic and game destroying. 

 

Doubt that everyone using it, just people without backbone, and the worst kind is justify it with the same reason.

[cuddlesRO]

so sad to see this stuff and people having an unfair advantage in a game at the cost of their integrity. it pretty much shows their personality.

 

yes , WG can ban and keep their game free of this mod but probably at the cost of other mods (a.k.a no mods allowed be that good or bad).

[Ev1n]

Ladies, Gentlemen, Pirates,

 

In response to all the heated discussions around modifications I would like to reiterate what members of our Community Team have been imparting on you already: We have taken note of the issue and are working towards a solution.

 

We like mods and know that moddability makes it simply more fun and more personal. It also allows us to see solutions that we have not thought of ourselves or did not have the resources to implement. Of course there are mods which introduce a variable into our design that we don't want or are not sure about. These we will keep an eye on and take action.

 

At this time we are still in a closed pre-release phase which we are using to full effect. Part of that is seeing what kind of mods appear, how they work and how they affect the game. Because of this we are not immediately condemning any general group of mods, but we are also not going to indefinitely ignore anything that breaks the game for our players.

 

On a side note, our definition of "breaks the game" is entrenched in statistics and design experience, not only direct community feedback. But you already knew that.

 

As part of the steps taken to combat the appearance of mods like these, we are considering encoding our script files and making our file architecture different from World of Tanks. This should slow down the appearance of modifications directly ported from WoT, which is very easy at the moment. Building on that we would then change certain game logics that modders could exploit and encode even further. All of this together means that over time we would be increasing the hacking difficulty of our scripts, making them more and more difficult to break, and most importantly – to support. 

Unfortunately, this would also impact harmless mods, at least initially, but that's a bridge we will cross when we get there.

 

Another thing we are considering is revisiting our own target prediction system, which we had tried in Alpha. We have a few ideas on how to rework it to make it work better than it did before and make it fulfill the role we originally intended it to. However, we are not quite sure we want to go down that road yet.

 

For the meantime you will have to endure in the face of potential mod users, but rest assured that we are taking steps to work it out.  

 

Action Stations! 

[mtm78]

 

The difference in WoWs is that here you still have to move your mouse to hit the target, i believe the WoT one is an automatic "aimbot". 

Think of this mod more like the lead-aim markers in WoWp and WT arcade aircraft battles.

 

I get that, I just wanted him to be more clear on the matter. The fact of the matter is that was is in the wild for WoWs is a lead indicator, not an aimbot. There comes most confusion from I recon ;)

 

edit:

 

Ladies, Gentlemen, Pirates,

 

In response to all the heated discussions around modifications I would like to reiterate what members of our Community Team have been imparting on you already: We have taken note of the issue and are working towards a solution.

 

We like mods and know that moddability makes it simply more fun and more personal. It also allows us to see solutions that we have not thought of ourselves or did not have the resources to implement. Of course there are mods which introduce a variable into our design that we don't want or are not sure about. These we will keep an eye on and take action.

 

At this time we are still in a closed pre-release phase which we are using to full effect. Part of that is seeing what kind of mods appear, how they work and how they affect the game. Because of this we are not immediately condemning any general group of mods, but we are also not going to indefinitely ignore anything that breaks the game for our players.

 

On a side note, our definition of "breaks the game" is entrenched in statistics and design experience, not only direct community feedback. But you already knew that.

 

As part of the steps taken to combat the appearance of mods like these, we are considering encoding our script files and making our file architecture different from World of Tanks. This should slow down the appearance of modifications directly ported from WoT, which is very easy at the moment. Building on that we will then change certain game logics that modders could exploit and encode even further. All of this together means that over time we will be increasing the hacking difficulty of our scripts, making them more and more difficult to break, and most importantly – to support. 

Unfortunately, this would also impact harmless mods, at least initially, but that's a bridge we will cross when we get there.

 

Another thing we are considering is revisiting our own target prediction system, which we had tried in Alpha. We have a few ideas on how to rework it to make it work better than it did before and make it fulfill the role we originally intended it to. However, we are not quite sure we want to go down that road yet.

 

For the meantime you will have to endure in the face of potential mod users, but rest assured that we are taking steps to work it out.  

 

Action Stations! 

 

That sounds pretty promising to me 

[Crooq_Lionfang]

Me likes what large trout says

[Skullcap]

Ladies, Gentlemen, Pirates,

...

 

On a side note, our definition of "breaks the game" is entrenched in statistics and design experience, not only direct community feedback. But you already knew that.

 

As part of the steps taken to combat the appearance of mods like these, we are considering encoding our script files and making our file architecture different from World of Tanks. This should slow down the appearance of modifications directly ported from WoT, which is very easy at the moment. Building on that we will then change certain game logics that modders could exploit and encode even further. All of this together means that over time we will be increasing the hacking difficulty of our scripts, making them more and more difficult to break, and most importantly – to support. 

Unfortunately, this would also impact harmless mods, at least initially, but that's a bridge we will cross when we get there.

 

Another thing we are considering is revisiting our own target prediction system, which we had tried in Alpha. We have a few ideas on how to rework it to make it work better than it did before and make it fulfill the role we originally intended it to. However, we are not quite sure we want to go down that road yet.

 

For the meantime you will have to endure in the face of potential mod users, but rest assured that we are taking steps to work it out.  

 

Action Stations! 

 

Thank you for giving us abit more insight on what WG is planning to do.

 

Its not unknown in other titles and one I test addons for on a regular bases to hide scripting files in .out files, this might not be for your own solution but the .out files generally are differcult to open without excessive HEX editing. It was put in place to protect 3rd party scripts between addons and it has worked pretty well so far.

 

I think mods are good for any games, they can and will in general improve the quality of the game over the original design concepts of the developers and sometimes can incorperate, as you mentioned, stuff which developers just simply cannot put time towards and quite frankly I  don't mind some of them.

 

Examples of mods which I think are acceptable are reskins mods, be it either creating historical camos to ships in the form of the white rings on IJN ship funnels or giving some ships artic or otherwise camo schemes that is fine. I'm also fine with the kantai collection reskins, some people obviously don't want anime stuff but their is a big following and its similar to the girls und panzer stuff which popped up WoT, some people will like it, others won't but it gives a idea of just how complex the reskins can become and what is achieveable. I however don't really support reskins which highlight weakspots on a ship, this is very similar to the hitbox reskins in WoT, while they are allowed in WoT I honestly don't think they should be, it takes away from player skill and learning and its not much different than the aim assist mod.

 

I think WG should support reskin mod, aswell as any sound mods which might pop up in the future and GUI/UI mods which streamline or benefit smoother transition of look of the GUI/UI.

 

At the same time I think some ground rules need to be established even at this stage on what is acceptable from WG modding wise, a FAQ of sorts. For example if people start creating reticle mods to change the scope like they do in WoT what is acceptable on that front and how far can they go? A common addition to scope mods in WoT is extra zoom, quite frankly while it might be abit harmless in WoT the same could not  be said for WoWs. Having extra zoom in WoWs over non-mod users can benefit better and more accurate shots.

 

You note that you are considering revisiting the aim assist system you had in alpha, from a tester point of view I would say, rework it with the ideas you have , add it in a CBT patch then have us testers use it for a week or two and give feedback on it, collection your data and see how it effects the game. If the general feedback and data proves the aim assist system simplifies the game then you can remove it, but it must be done in the CBT phase, if it were to be done in OBT then people would probably riot after getting used to the aim assist system to then have it removed.

 

I think WG is taking the right steps with this and I hope Modding will still be encouraged but with proper guidelines and rules so we don't have a situation like this crop up again and put alot of bittertaste in alot of mouths.