Bcuz radar + smoke = balans

[wilkatis_LV]

 

F-ing srsly. Aren't Payfast and Black more than enough examples that NO SHIP SHOULD HAVE RADAR AND SMOKE AT THE SAME TIME?

 

Want to give the Grozovoi a radar? I'm perfectly fine with it. Just make it trade the smoke for it. Both at the same time is idiotic, and that's the politest I can say about it.

 

@MrConway @Crysantos - please be so kind and try to make sure this doesn't go live

[ColonelPete]

I agree. Radar on ships other then cruisers is generally a bad idea. This is just watering down the cruisers job and makes them less important.

[Verdius]

Comrade, you just don't see.

WG had no choice. Grozovoi wasn't the most popular ship because it is a AA destroyer and as a Russian directly competes with the infamous Khabarovsk. The only option to make it more attractive is by giving it radar. They couldn't have lowered torp reload or something; no adding radar was their only choice. The only way for players to "make use of her advantages" (? I have no clue what they mean here) is to give her radar and completely replace other ships in CB. They clearly had no other choice. Their hands were tied. They couldn't have made any other buffs other than giving her a (rightfully) widely reviled combo of gimmicks.

Of course adding radar on top of all the other gimmicks won't overly affect the ship, like with Belfast.


/s

[ChatBanForSayingTruth]

Although grozovoi needs a boost I don't think another radar ship is needed. But I prefer that duration of all radars would be shortened to max 20sec. Or just give grozovoi an antiradar consumable which would disable radar within that 7.5km range. 

[wilkatis_LV]

Just as a comparison - that radar is exactly the same that Yueyang gets. Exactly the same down to the last point

[zengaze]

KeK. Not enough people using FxP ($$$) to go up the soviet DD line. WG's answer, give it the gimmick people will pay to get. Shiny new OP bote, until they power creep it with a shiny new OP line. WG's model hasn't changed a jot since WOT, i jumped to this because it at least doesn't have P2W ammo, i'm hoping i get another year or so of relaitive fun out of it before they fully trash it as has been done with tonks.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

sounds good ^^ maybe finally will play again grozo haha

[SV_Kompresor]

6 hours ago, Sugertukas said:

Or just give grozovoi an antiradar consumable which would disable radar within that 7.5km range. 

That'd be an interesting consumable....basically force a 30 second reload on all radars and hydro in its range....(which means it has to be used before radar or hydro are, otherwise it would completely counter them, rendering them useless)

[dCK_Ad_Hominem]

Comrade, don't you see the game needs more dd hunters so the class will be extinct once glorious Stalin republics make their appearance? Also: can't have capitalist pigs alone have the good stuff. Don't you know what balance is? Just be glad concessions were made and this glorious gulag search device had its range cut down. Russian bias starts at 15km range. 

[loppantorkel]

At least it's possible to nerf Grozo and even take the radar away again if needed. Grozo population isn't big and it is a big [edited]dd. I don't like the radar-smoke combo, but I've seen worse...

[dCK_Ad_Hominem]

6 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

At least it's possible to nerf Grozo and even take the radar away again if needed. Grozo population isn't big and it is a big [edited]dd. I don't like the radar-smoke combo, but I've seen worse...

It's the slippery slope we fear. Now imagine if khaba could trade her engine boost for a certain something.

 

It is also gd lazy design. Radar never was part of the line, but is now used as a bait for players. WG is effing up the entire class balance because ONE dd doesn't get played as much as they'd like. With this we're back to balancing the game the same way 18th century doctors treated small infections in the hand: better get rid of that arm mate. 

 

Edit: typo

[cro_pwr]

its bad, its dumb, its a s****y idea.

the only thing it will do is make high tier DDs gameplay even worse then it is today, and you allready have to crawl your way trough 5 radars, 3 enemy DDs and 16 hydros / planes to actually do something meaningfull in the game.

[loppantorkel]

I agree that it seems like an odd and somewhat lazy thing to do.

They have nerfed the earlier OP khaba a couple of times. I see no reason why they would buff her. So... not a slippery slope in that sense. Just that the smoke vs radar meta isn't that great to begin with.

[_desu_desu_desu_desu_]

I see.. another patch, another bad day for the Gearing.

But hey, it's getting buffed with Fletcher torps that are only an option for random and even then are questionable in current meta.

This is ridiculous, are you touched in the head WG?

[159Hunter]

I have Grozo and I just can't make that them piece of junk work. Maybe I should just make it a full AA build and only play in division with CV?

So then WG comes up with a buff and I go : yesssss, finally this'll be worth something.

Nope.... radar, seriously WG? Are you that daft???

 

This ship does not need radar. Let me repeat: IT DOES NOT NEED RADAR.

Give me the option to play it like a decent gunboat or a torpboat. The current version as a hybrid is just lackluster in both these fields. It's a jack of none trades.

 

Let me repeat: RADAR IS NOT THE WAY TO GO.

[aboomination]

Guess I'll finally finish the grind 

[T0byJug]

8 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

F-ing srsly. Aren't Payfast and Black more than enough examples that NO SHIP SHOULD HAVE RADAR AND SMOKE AT THE SAME TIME?

 

Want to give the Grozovoi a radar? I'm perfectly fine with it. Just make it trade the smoke for it. Both at the same time is idiotic, and that's the politest I can say about it.

 

@MrConway @Crysantos - please be so kind and try to make sure this doesn't go live

First agree Smoke and Radar on a DD is wrong.

Second there is nothing wrong with the Grozovoi she douse not need a Buff.

 

Why is Grozovoi not popular.. Well Russian DDs in general are not popular full stop. As tiers 5-9 are hard ships to play. Khabarosk has just over 2x the games and she has a rep of being as OP as Hell. Are  they gona buff the Khaba as well.  If you want to increase the playability of tier X Russian DDs  Look at tier 5-9 not tier 10

Those few People that do push down the Russian DD line head for Khaba because of her reputation. If people studied the ships a bit they would realise the Grozovoi is a far more versatile ship than the Khaba. The Grozovoi is a far better team orientated DD than the Khaba as Grozovoi is a good cap ship

 

Percentage of Tier X DD over last 2 weeks

 

Shimakaze 51%

Z-52             9%

Yueyang     12%

Grozovoi      2.5%

Khabarosk   6%

Gearing       19%

 

Both Russian DDs combined are still bottom of tier X DDs played.

 

Where do I get my Opinion.   Well I have ALL the Tier X DDs

 

 

[PapVogele]

I keep seeing changes that either directly or indirectly affect the DD gameplay, sadly its mostly for the worse. First they buff the turnspeed and rudder shift times of BBs, DDs now had to pray or be very very good to do anything other than point blank torping. Then they remove stealthfiring, good thing from a gameplay and balance perspective, DDs now had to play smarter. Then they start adding radars, DDs now had to get better situational awareness, both a good thing and a bad thing, radars were scarce and often of very short duration. They then nerf smoke, it didnt nerf DDs that much, but impacted the support they could expect to get as many cruisers and BBs dont push with the DDs anymore because they will get spotted firing through smoke anyways. Then they add more and more radars, not just cruisers, no, a DD line gets radar, a free xp BB gets a radar, its Oprah Winfrey in the WG dev team.

Now I can play against radar ships, the last couple of months has been 2-3 radars on the enemy team, sometimes 0, but most of the time there's a radar or two, I just play a bit more passively to start with so I know where they are before I commit to anything. With the current US cruiser hype, there's radars everywhere, I know its going to fade and go back a bit, but instead of 2-3 radars I'm quite sure we're going to see 3-5 radars on each team in the future. This enables teams to cover all caps with radar from the get go. No DDs will push in to cap, they will try to flank leaving the caps for cruisers and BBs alike. We all know what BBs like to do, so either they yolo in and die, or they just start the game by pressing S. Cruisers will be camping around the caps using cover outside the cap, so the caps will never be contested, while DDs are frantically trying to find a gap in the radar coverage and/or torping from their max range.

The addition of so many radars is going to slow down the game to the point of gamebreaking, if you thought camping was bad before, well look around you now, you already see it happening, BBs are sniping cruisers and BBs from max range, cruisers are hiding around islands near cap hoping to catch a stupid DD that goes inside its radar range, and DDs are flanking and trying to get torps out on targets outside of radar range.

Now I know I'm going to get shot down by cruiser mains and BB mains, I know I have to git gud and adapt... But frankly I don't want to anymore, WG changes the core gameplay more and more each month in a game that I love to play, a game that I support a lot. But something has to be done, or DDs will become the new CVs, noone plays them because of the constant nerfs and gameplay changes that affect the DD class more than any other class in the game currently (my opinion). I wish, I truly wish that WG could start listening to the CCs that has said time and time again that there are issues at the core of the gameplay, with BBs getting rewarded for sitting back and sniping, issues with adding more and more radars to the game, issues with unbalanced AA etc..

Listen to your community as a whole WG, not just the majority that plays BB...please.

[loppantorkel]

They've been buffing dd concealment somewhat since PA dds... If they'd nerf Grozo concealment just a little bit, I'm not sure I'd mind the radar-smoke combo that much. Neither smoke or radar is that great on Grozo. Coupled with the very low concealment is a bigger issue.

[OTECa1]

I can agree that not only the capitalist pigs should have good stuff, but radar+smoke is a bit too much... a better buff would be lowering the detection range/rudder shift/torp reload time.

[loppantorkel]

Grozo will still be vulnerable at pushing in to use the short radar due to bad handling and the large ship it is.

[Runegrem]

Ah, thanks WG. I was about which ship to get next. Now I know.

 

22 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

Why is Grozovoi not popular.. Well Russian DDs in general are not popular full stop. As tiers 5-9 are hard ships to play. Khabarosk has just over 2x the games and she has a rep of being as OP as Hell. Are  they gona buff the Khaba as well.  If you want to increase the playability of tier X Russian DDs  Look at tier 5-9 not tier 10

Yeah. The earlier ships are the ones needing buffs or changes. Probably. I haven't looked into how successful they actually are. But yes, as far as I can tell from the forums, they are the ones responsible for players stopping going up the RU DD line and instead focusing on a more normal DD line or a real cruiser line.

 

22 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

Those few People that do push down the Russian DD line head for Khaba because of her reputation. If people studied the ships a bit they would realise the Grozovoi is a far more versatile ship than the Khaba. The Grozovoi is a far better team orientated DD than the Khaba as Grozovoi is a good cap ship

More versatile yes, but the Kebab is better at what it does, shooting and avoiding shells. And it's still better at bullying DDs out of caps if it has even a little bit of scouting support.

 

22 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

Percentage of Tier X DD over last 2 weeks

 

Shimakaze 51%

Z-52             9%

Yueyang     12%

Grozovoi      2.5%

Khabarosk   6%

Gearing       19%

 

Both Russian DDs combined are still bottom of tier X DDs played.

Forget what I said earlier about lower tier RU DDs needing changes. The numbers clearly show Kebab is the ship needing buffs. And since Kebab is stronger with its heal and rarely uses smoke anyway radar would be a superb and completely not overpowered addition to the ship.

 

 

[VeteranGamer84]

As a Grozovoi owner it's a good news. No need to worry about not getting the USS Black I guess.

[Sub_Human]

Grozovoi

9 hours ago, wilkatis_LV said:

 

F-ing srsly. Aren't Payfast and Black more than enough examples that NO SHIP SHOULD HAVE RADAR AND SMOKE AT THE SAME TIME?

 

Want to give the Grozovoi a radar? I'm perfectly fine with it. Just make it trade the smoke for it. Both at the same time is idiotic, and that's the politest I can say about it.

 

@MrConway @Crysantos - please be so kind and try to make sure this doesn't go live

Grozovoi is awkvard to play. But it would make more sense to buff her range to Udaloi levels or atleast Kebab levels. 13.2 to 14.6 or 13.5. Also make her he alfa 1900 like the other russian DDs, not 1800 as it is. But if you want to make her fun to play... Make her nimble. She handles way to bad to comfortably cap or even gunfight in the open. And yes i get that they dont want Khaba light. But now they are making her good only against dds.

[Prospect_b]

1 hour ago, T0byJug said:

Well Russian DDs in general are not popular full stop. As tiers 5-9 are hard ships to play.

I found the 5-9's easier than the khaba in a lot of regards. At mid tiers there is less 20km campfiesta's for one, and a ship like the kiev has way more options. (better range, and I went for concealment)

 

Though you're certainly right at one point. Even though the khaba was already nerfed to the point it is now, that was the final reason for me to do that line. I wasn't interested in the grozovoi at all, and even though the Udaloi seems somewhat fun, I didn't feel like grinding past the minsk once again.

 

1 hour ago, PapVogele said:

Now I know I'm going to get shot down by cruiser mains and BB mains, I know I have to git gud and adapt...

I am technically a cruiser main, and I fully agree with you. It is beyond r3tarded how every ship always is expected to git gudder, and adapt etc. But

 

 

For ages we had 5 BB meta. BB counter cruiser, hard. 2/3 cruisers at high tiers weren't rare as a consequence.

Recently we saw regular 5 DD as well. Cruiser and especially radar cruiser, counter DD, hard. I already saw way less DDs, especially the 5xDD.

We have had ever increasing idiotproof levels of AA, on about everything. Counters CV quite hard. They went the way of the dinosaur.

 

You know what I never saw? Anything that lessened the 5 BB meta.

 

It's almost like it has no real hard counter...