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Alzy

DD play at T6 and above is now broken ...

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I enjoyed  playing DD's. Now  since  the  last  patch  especially i am seeing games  with  4-5  sometimes even 6 radar  ships.. As  a  Dd  you  cant  go  near  the  caps  or  you  get  radared  and  focused  straight  away .. you  cant  even go  back as  there  will be  another  ship  with  radar  ready.. at  T6-7  with  8km torps  the  radar  out ranges  you  by  up  to  4km even at T9-10  the radars  can still out range  you  depending  on the  DD..   A  DD's  primary  role  is capping  and  spotting , you cant  even do  that  when there  are  so  many  radar  ships, once  they  are  spotted  they  pop  radar.. The  only  real  defence  a  DD  has is  its  stealth, it  can not  fight  any  other  ship  1 on 1..    For  the  reasons   i  list  DD  play  at  t6  and  above  is  now  Broken !

 

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2 minutes ago, Alzy said:

at  T6-7  with  8km torps  the  radar  out ranges  you  by  up  to  4km 

Only Indianapolis has remotely such range on its radar and most T7 radar ships are not Indianapolis. The radar also is very short and Indianapolis cannot radar past its detection range, so it still won't have radar on all the time and has no indicator for when there are DDs around like Belfast, Cleveland or Chapayev have (spotted without spotting anything => DD in radar range).

 

USN cruisers don't radar past their detection range (Cleveland comes close), Russians only radar past detection range on the Chapayev. Any other tech tree cruiser hitting the radar button upon getting spotted, with no other indication that there is something around is just an idiot potentially throwing the radar away.

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Riselotte

I don't  know  if  you noticed  but  as  a  Dd  you  nearly  always  get  up tiered  in games..  so you  come  up against  higher  tier  radar  ships  all the  time...

 

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I must be getting lucky with MM - I rarely have to deal with more than a couple of radar ships (and zero isn't uncommon); that said, I did get a game last night(?) where I was facing a pair of MOs, and a Chappy (I think) - that didn't go terribly well...

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Verblonde

Just 3 radars ?  that's  beyond  lucky  games  i  have  seen  recently..  As  i say  i have  seen  up to  7  radars  in one  game .. It makes  DD's  all but  unplayable..

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Coming back after few months, yes this is completely ridiculous. Even playing T 6-7 you get detected by radars all the time. I don't remember it being even 1/3 as bad before. It's like they want to make the class unplayable.

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12 minutes ago, Alzy said:

Riselotte

I don't  know  if  you noticed  but  as  a  Dd  you  nearly  always  get  up tiered  in games..  so you  come  up against  higher  tier  radar  ships  all the  time...

 

Given Harekaze is my most-played ship, I know that and I still find it playable.

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8 minutes ago, Alzy said:

Riselotte

I don't  know  if  you noticed  but  as  a  Dd  you  nearly  always  get  up tiered  in games..  so you  come  up against  higher  tier  radar  ships  all the  time...

 

Proof please.. As a DD player i do not get uptiered any more than in other ships.. DD is probably the one class where gameplay when bottom tier does not change much from when top tier

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7 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

Proof please.. As a DD player i do not get uptiered any more than in other ships.. DD is probably the one class where gameplay when bottom tier does not change much from when top tier

 

That's my experience too, I'm not bottom tier more in DD's than I am in other ship types.

 

I think @Alzy is exaggerating to try to illustrate that he's not much good at dealing with Radar which is less much common at T6/7 games I play than it is in higher tiers.

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I agree that when the enemy have 7 radars its not that fun, but only happen to me twice since the patch, so who cares ;)

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46 minutes ago, Alzy said:

I enjoyed  playing DD's. Now  since  the  last  patch  especially i am seeing games  with  4-5  sometimes even 6 radar  ships.. As  a  Dd  you  cant  go  near  the  caps  or  you  get  radared  and  focused  straight  away .. you  cant  even go  back as  there  will be  another  ship  with  radar  ready.. at  T6-7  with  8km torps  the  radar  out ranges  you  by  up  to  4km even at T9-10  the radars  can still out range  you  depending  on the  DD..   A  DD's  primary  role  is capping  and  spotting , you cant  even do  that  when there  are  so  many  radar  ships, once  they  are  spotted  they  pop  radar.. The  only  real  defence  a  DD  has is  its  stealth, it  can not  fight  any  other  ship  1 on 1..    For  the  reasons   i  list  DD  play  at  t6  and  above  is  now  Broken !

 

 

I've noticed this too playing mainly IJN and US DD's. But what i do is look at the match making screen, see what ships are on the opposing side, and if i see a Belfast for example, i don't go in a cap until i see where he is on the mini map, Same with my Smokeless T8 Kagero. See a Missouri and Loyang on the opposite team, i wnna know were they are, if i see a DD in a cap and the Loyang hasn't been spotted Its better for my team for me to survive so if i have torps available i torp the smoke or wait until a radar ship on my team comes to help!.. Worst case scenario i dip in and out of the cap .. if it wont  start to change, i know that loyang is still in there :) I hate radar, but be sensible and dont be in a rush to cap or get sunk.. 

 

My biggest issue playing DD's are the 90% of games cruisers dont want to help get the DD's down, they forget the team with 2 DD's against a Team with 2 sunk DD's has vastly more chance of winning and keeping stuff spotted. HELP OUT YOUR DD's PLEEEEASE!! :-) 

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DD gaming as we knew it is dead.

The best way to survive is to stay far away from capzones.

Remember 2 new radarships are comming to T9 and T10. The two american lightcruisers.
As I see it, only 3 DDs can do it in high tier right now. It is Gearing with 16,5 km torps and Shima with 20 km torps, These 2 DDs are now reduced to torpedo spammers. 
The third one is the Khaba, is doesnt mind the radars.

In the future: Less DDs=more BBs. The will have big days hunting cruisers.
I do not play much high tier DD after the update and with the two new cruisers on the way, its pointless to keep playing DD. I am  playing more BB now.

Solution: Let the radar require LOS as in real life.

See U.
 

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BeauNidl3

You claim i cant  play a Dd against  radar  , but  your  stats  are  so  bad  you  have  hidden them !   LOL...

 

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1 minute ago, Fionia_DK said:


Solution: Let the radar require LOS as in real life.


 

 

I'd vote for this.... no problem!..

 

or some radar jamming consumable. highly unlikely but we can all live in hope lol 

 

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Let's see:

 

Last two shima games were 161k and 148k respectively.

 

Last two gearing games were 55k (okinawa and chasing damage) and 61k (almost all from dds). 

 

I survived and won all those. 

 

Op has a point though. Lower tier dds need an increase in torp range and speed. They are arguably harder to play than high tier dds and suffer a lot from lack of good concealment as well (t6 a bit, t7 quite a lot). With the radar trend it would be a good time to get rid of torps with ranges of 7.5km and less. At least make it 9.5 so people get a fighting chance and more versatility.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Fionia_DK said:

DD gaming as we knew it is dead.

The best way to survive is to stay far away from capzones.

Remember 2 new radarships are comming to T9 and T10. The two american lightcruisers.
As I see it, only 3 DDs can do it in high tier right now. It is Gearing with 16,5 km torps and Shima with 20 km torps, These 2 DDs are now reduced to torpedo spammers. 
The third one is the Khaba, is doesnt mind the radars.

In the future: Less DDs=more BBs. The will have big days hunting cruisers.
I do not play much high tier DD after the update and with the two new cruisers on the way, its pointless to keep playing DD. I am  playing more BB now.

Solution: Let the radar require LOS as in real life.

See U.
 

 

Nope, your view is not very differentiated. You can deny areas well, prey on other dds, flank, and what is the most fun: spot the enemy radar cruisers for your team. Most bbs react to these shiny beings with a "muh precious" reaction and will generate angles to shoot them. Being that most radar cas are extra soft. ....

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1 minute ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

 

Nope, your view is not very differentiated. You can deny areas well, prey on other dds, flank, and what is the most fun: spot the enemy radar cruisers for your team. Most bbs react to these shiny beings with a "muh precious" reaction and will generate angles to shoot them. Being that most radar cas are extra soft. ....

What you say  is  true .. but .. don't  forget  DD  is  a  class  that  should  have  a  role, before  the  advent  of  so many  radars, it  was  to  contest  caps  and  spot  for  your  team .. What  your  now  saying  is  that  that  role  is  gone  and  they  have  to  run around  the  edges  of  the  map  and  try  to  survive  while  looking  for enemy  DD's  .. not  a  very  fun and  engaging  role  ..

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37 minutes ago, Fionia_DK said:

DD gaming as we knew it is dead.

The best way to survive is to stay far away from capzones.

Why? Plenty of DD players can cap it just takes some timing or persistence.

 

Quote

 


Remember 2 new radarships are comming to T9 and T10. The two american lightcruisers.
As I see it, only 3 DDs can do it in high tier right now. It is Gearing with 16,5 km torps and Shima with 20 km torps, These 2 DDs are now reduced to torpedo spammers. 
The third one is the Khaba, is doesnt mind the radars.

Sorry I can't agree with that, I do fine in Fletcher, ChungMu, Z52, Yueyang, Grozevoi and Shima with 12km torps, I actively dislike the Gearing's torpedoes and look forwards to it getting the Fletcher ones in test, the Shima 20's are utterly useless. I don't know how you play, but if you genuinely feel what you wrote maybe you should rethink playing DD at high tiers.

 

Quote


In the future: Less DDs=more BBs. The will have big days hunting cruisers.
I do not play much high tier DD after the update and with the two new cruisers on the way, its pointless to keep playing DD. I am  playing more BB now.

I play as many high tier DD games as I did before, if you can't adapt and cope then it's probably good you play DD less as the team relies on DD's being played reasonably well.

 

Quote

Solution: Let the radar require LOS as in real life.

The real life argument falls down in so many ways, not the least being in real life radars and hydros are on constantly, all ships could deploy smoke screens on demand and naval artillery hit rates against moving ships was very low. WoWs isn't a simulator and this is yet another thread complaining about radars.

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34 minutes ago, Alzy said:

Verblonde

Just 3 radars ?  that's  beyond  lucky  games  i  have  seen  recently..  As  i say  i have  seen  up to  7  radars  in one  game .. It makes  DD's  all but  unplayable..

I must be lucky all the time; I'm not very good against radar, so tend to notice it (a lot) - if anything, I should be moaning a lot about radar, as it often messes me up badly when I encounter it.

 

I suppose it could just be that I've happened to be on the flank where the radar ships didn't go, and they got sunk by my team-mates before they could zap me.

 

I should mention, I've only played a few hours since the US cruisers changes were implemented (well, the initial set); that may well have increased the numbers of radars, and it hasn't bitten me yet...

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5 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

Why? Plenty of DD players can cap it just takes some timing or persistence.

 

Sorry I can't agree with that, I do fine in Fletcher, ChungMu, Z52, Yueyang, Grozevoi and Shima with 12km torps, I actively dislike the Gearing's torpedoes and look forwards to it getting the Fletcher ones in test, the Shima 20's are utterly useless. I don't know how you play, but if you genuinely feel what you wrote maybe you should rethink playing DD at high tiers.

 

I play as muany high tier DD games as I did before, if you can't adapt and cope then it's probably good you play DD less as the team relies on DD's being played reasonably well.

 

The real life argument falls down in so many ways, not the least being in real life radars and hydros are on constantly, all ships could deploy smoke screens on demand and naval artillery hit rates against moving ships was very low. WoWs isn't a simulator and this is yet another thread complaining about radars.

All this  "how you should  play"   advice  from a  man  with  hidden  stats  ! :P 

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5 minutes ago, Alzy said:

What you say  is  true .. but .. don't  forget  DD  is  a  class  that  should  have  a  role, before  the  advent  of  so many  radars, it  was  to  contest  caps  and  spot  for  your  team .. What  your  now  saying  is  that  that  role  is  gone  and  they  have  to  run around  the  edges  of  the  map  and  try  to  survive  while  looking  for enemy  DD's  .. not  a  very  fun and  engaging  role  ..

I rather like it, stalking my prey and supporting my team. Rpf helps a lot, as does being good. The problem is that enough people already suck a lot at playing dd. Making the class even more complex..... I shall overcome, but we really don't need fewer well played dds, but more if we want to counter the bb plague. Creating more and more dd hunters among each other (pa dds and grozo which may receive radar soon) is as bad as cruiser hunting cruisers. 

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Lets see...


Last couple chung mu games with 48k to 160k dmg. The latter was a loss, but winrate sits at a comfy 68%.

Gearing and Khaba has no problems either.

 

DD play basically has to adapt to caps being permaradared and play the new meta we also saw in TX ranked:

Playing the objective means spot the squishy cruisers for the Borderclickers and pray they can hit a barn from the inside. It helps most radar cruisers go BOOM if BBs even aim their way.

 

17 minutes ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

Op has a point though. Lower tier dds need an increase in torp range and speed. They are arguably harder to play than high tier dds and suffer a lot from lack of good concealment as well (t6 a bit, t7 quite a lot). With the radar trend it would be a good time to get rid of torps with ranges of 7.5km and less. At least make it 9.5 so people get a fighting chance and more versatility.

 

 

 

This is a very good point though.

Current radar conditions are stupid, although expected to die down as the novelty of USN CLs wear off.

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Nothing is broken, an existing line with radar has been given a split, so obviously there's going to be more radars per game than usual until it dies down

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When playing my Kamikaze I rarely have problems with radar or getting uptiered to T7

 

So easy solution: only play T5 DDs and let the high tiers see how battles without DDs "work" (hint: they don't...)

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No idea why there is a need to open a new thread about the topic every day.

Help and information is given in the old threads. If you do not want to learn, continue to open new threads and ignore the given advice.

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