The Death of the dedicated heavy cruiser

[pzkpfwv1d]

Today I decided to take some of my heavy cruisers out late in the day

 

Namely the Japanese ones which are supposed to be configured for scouting hence the speed.

 

The significant problems with heavy cruisers are that they are a large target (with some of them being virtually the same dimensions as battleships) but they do not have the armour to withstand heavy punishment and they also do not have the maneuverability to evade if they find themselves in difficulties and they can be spotted by stealth configured ships before they can spot the enemy so are far likelier to find themselves in difficulties that they can not get out of.   Hence several of them died very quickly trying to do what they are supposed to do and scout.  The only time they survived was if they hung back and waited until the heavies had engaged before opening fire.

 

Therefore it now appears impracticable to participate in any random battle utilising a dedicated Japanese heavy cruiser 

 

(I will give findings on other nationalities of heavy cruiser over the next couple of days.

[HaachamaShipping]

Ever played a Shchors?

[Prospect_b]

1 minute ago, Riselotte said:

Ever played a Shchors?

That's by definition a light cruiser...

[HaachamaShipping]

Just now, Saiyko said:

That's by definition a light cruiser...

Yes, and it ticks all the boxes of terrible qualities OP attributes to heavy cruisers. It is large, clumsy, easily outspotted and has armour worth almost nothing. In all of these, it's way worse than the IJN cruiser line.Yet it works.

[ColonelPete]

3 minutes ago, pzkpfwv1d said:

Today I decided to take some of my heavy cruisers out late in the day

 

Namely the Japanese ones which are supposed to be configured for scouting hence the speed.

 

The significant problems with heavy cruisers are that they are a large target (with some of them being virtually the same dimensions as battleships) but they do not have the armour to withstand heavy punishment and they also do not have the maneuverability to evade if they find themselves in difficulties and they can be spotted by stealth configured ships before they can spot the enemy so are far likelier to find themselves in difficulties that they can not get out of.   Hence several of them died very quickly trying to do what they are supposed to do and scout.  The only time they survived was if they hung back and waited until the heavies had engaged before opening fire.

 

Therefore it now appears impracticable to participate in any random battle utilising a dedicated Japanese heavy cruiser 

 

(I will give findings on other nationalities of heavy cruiser over the next couple of days.

You played them wrong and therefore their time is over?

In any cruiser it is important to know where the enemies are before you announce your presence on the battlefield.

This is especially important in any cruiser that cannot hide itself by a press of a button.

 

Therefore you either use long range or cover. Because of your gun arcs, the first option is easier on most maps, but cover is the better option.

[Juanx]

12 minutes ago, pzkpfwv1d said:

(I will give findings on other nationalities of heavy cruiser over the next couple of days.

 

Nah, dont bother.

You can not play cruisers, no one will care for your "findings" with ships you dont know how to play.

[aboomination]

22 minutes ago, pzkpfwv1d said:

heavy cruisers are supposed to scout but can be spotted by stealth configured ships and need to hang back until the heavies open fire.

 

Therefore it now appears impracticable to participate in any random battle utilising a dedicated Japanese heavy cruiser 

So you want your CA to outspot DDs?

While it's true that you generally shouldn't be the first target to pop up (unless there's a good reason) - what makes you think that your main role is "scouting"? And what are "heavies"? I think you wanted to post on the WoT forums.

 

Quote

I will give findings on other nationalities of heavy cruiser over the next couple of days.

No thx,i'd rathernot

[_Grim_]

OP, have you ever considered that rushing in like a headless chicken isn't a very good idea ?

[aboomination]

12 minutes ago, _Grim_ said:

OP, have you ever considered that rushing in like a headless chicken isn't a very good idea ?

Yes, today - and he had to share the enlightenment 

[Hedgehog1963]

Scouting in a cruiser?

[El2aZeR]

1 hour ago, pzkpfwv1d said:

Namely the Japanese ones which are supposed to be configured for scouting hence the speed.

 

[Butterdoll]

that's, plain mean.

 

Hey, OP maybe it was like that in the war, not here.

I think only a few cruisers maybe can manage to get away with a thing like this and all being flotillas leaders.

Like Emile, Tenryo and Kuma.

there's no heavy cruiser, thou.

Even in history they didn't have much chance.

Take a look at the battle of Leyte Gulf (if you want), the dds part.

 

 

 

[MoveZig]

Heavy cruisers, depending on the guns, are meant to either stay far in the back and snipe, or shoot mortar shells over islands. Under no circumstances are you supposed to be ''scouting'' in the open when there are enemy DDs that can keep you spotted with impunity, and BBs that can blow you out of the water.

[bushwacker001]

5 hours ago, pzkpfwv1d said:

Today I decided to take some of my heavy cruisers out late in the day

 

Namely the Japanese ones which are supposed to be configured for scouting hence the speed.

 

The significant problems with heavy cruisers are that they are a large target (with some of them being virtually the same dimensions as battleships) but they do not have the armour to withstand heavy punishment and they also do not have the maneuverability to evade if they find themselves in difficulties and they can be spotted by stealth configured ships before they can spot the enemy so are far likelier to find themselves in difficulties that they can not get out of.   Hence several of them died very quickly trying to do what they are supposed to do and scout.  The only time they survived was if they hung back and waited until the heavies had engaged before opening fire.

 

Therefore it now appears impracticable to participate in any random battle utilising a dedicated Japanese heavy cruiser 

 

(I will give findings on other nationalities of heavy cruiser over the next couple of days.

Can't wait for your DD findings, you are even worse in them. 

[Culiacan_Mexico]

6 hours ago, pzkpfwv1d said:

Today I decided to take some of my heavy cruisers out late in the day

 

Namely the Japanese ones which are supposed to be configured for scouting hence the speed.

A cruiser scouting?  

[159Hunter]

Small suggestion OP:

- Stop creating topics that show you have no clue how to play the game (but in which you 'claim' to show the faults of the game),

- Stop thinking yourself on how to play the game (based on 'real life'),

- Start reading the WIKI pages of the game (in your case, all of them),

- Start looking at YouTube movies about the game (start with IChase's academy for example),

- After doing all of this: return to tier I and start playing again, right now you drag your own team down.

 

And yes, I couldn't resist:

[Bics93]

49 minuti fa, 159Hunter ha scritto:

And yes, I couldn't resist:

 

How is this even possible? Mogami deals at least 5-6k HE damage each salvo with IFHE 

[Azalgor]

7 hours ago, _Grim_ said:

OP, have you ever considered that rushing in like a headless chicken isn't a very good idea ?

Still a better option than pasive camping.

[_DeathWing_]

@pzkpfwv1d it's you not heavy cruisers. l2p and git gud 

[aboomination]

48 minutes ago, Azalgor said:

Still a better option than pasive camping.

Looking at those stats: No 

[Streef_]

You're probably trying to use genuine historical tactics in World of Warships.

Don't. Due to how the game is made, ship roles are not equal to the roles of the same ships historically. In WoWS, cruisers sit a line behind battleships (or alternatively behind islands) and generally burn down ships. I suggest you look into some youtube videos to fully understand their role in-game.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

Ijn cruiser line is for me the most solid line with not a single bad ship. 

 

Greath stealth, solid balistic, stealthfire torps (till t10) solid armor (for cruser), firestartes, solid HE apha. 

[_Grim_]

1 hour ago, Azalgor said:

Still a better option than pasive camping.

Check his performance in every ship he plays - dying in the first few minutes of the game after firing 3 salvos is actually worse than camping.

[EsaTuunanen]

1 hour ago, Bics93 said:

 

How is this even possible? Mogami deals at least 5-6k HE damage each salvo with IFHE 

I've come to conclusion that some clans must be teaching how to suck most.

[Procrastes]

The heavy cruisers are not dead, OP, they are just hanging back to enjoy the game from the second row!

 

Let me share with you one of the more hilarious quotes from the battle chat: "Battleships are for sniping."

 

This, as should be glaringly obvious to anyone who has played this game for more than a week, is completely wrong. Yet I can see why the misconception would occur: It's not unreasonable for a newcomer to assume the ship class with the longest-range guns, are supposed to fill the role of the sniper. The fact that a) in-game battleship accuracy makes this strategy inefficient, and b) staying far to the back negates the main in-game strength of the battleship, namely her survivability, is something that can take a while to realize.*

 

Another not uncommon misconception is the one debated in this thread: "Cruisers are for scouting."

This might indeed have been one of their main roles in real life naval history. In this game, however, where any destroyers or other cruisers encountered are likely to be backed up by several battleships,** trying for a scouting role in a cruiser is likely to secure a swift invitation to Davy Jones. Cruisers can typically only scout effectively if there are no destroyers or carrier planes around. Otherwise, the main job for cruisers is to hang around and support any battleships that are trying to push,** and also to deal with any enemy destroyers that are caught without cover from their allies. While there are some cruisers - most notably the British ones - that can fill a scouting role in a pinch, it is not their main vocation in the game.

 

As for how you are supposed to play the heavy cruisers, OP, you said it yourself:

10 hours ago, pzkpfwv1d said:

The only time they survived was if they hung back and waited until the heavies had engaged before opening fire.

 

At least for me, this is how I have made my heavy cruisers - the Atago and the Prinz Eugen in particular - work out just fine. Sneak around close to the edge of being detected, wait until the enemy has engaged some other target, fire off a salvo, and then quickly dodge away. Rinse and repeat. Of course, you will bite a bullet now and again, which is why the 'Heal' consumable is such a boon to have on those ships. Sooner or later, chances are good that you will take one salvo to many and go to the bottom. But by then, RNG Gods willing, you will have done enough damage to your enemies to sit proudly at Poseidon's table!

 

 

* Some players never realize this. They go on to join the Battleship Camping Society. (TM The Mighty Jingles)

** The ones that haven't joined the Battleship Camping Society, that is.