The "new" Cleveland

[ClappingLollies]

So i've been testing the "new" Cleveland? I write "new" because in my opinion its the same old T6 but now with radar. I know WG did some other tweaks to it. But its basically the same T6 ship we all loved. There is one big difference though. You fight T10's. All the time. So in essence you have a pretty strong T6 fighting T10's. This is not new and all T8's suffers from this. Although most can do pretty well. The playstyle is the same old. Sit behind an island and spam. Hunt down a DD. Blablabla

 

So what the Cleveland is "good" at now, is the same it was good at in T6. Infact the old would perform almost exactly the same as the new does now. So nothing changed except the radar. (Basically)

Some players have said "oh but you can do alot of dmg with fires and HE spamming". The Cleveland could do that before. Infact almost every cruiser can do that. You can spam down a GKF and farm 150k if the guy is a complete idiot. But if he has some brains he will just rush you down and kill you with a salvo or two and you can't do anything about it. The Cleveland has no threat factor at all. 

I know this, because i've done it many times already. See a Cleveland spamming from behind an island? Just rush him. He can't do anything to you. You can sail full broadside around the island with all the guns (420) blazing without fear of taking any heavy dmg back. 

 

So in my opinion its to weak for a T8 in its current state. If its staying like this, why would i pick it over the Baltimore, Chappy, Kutuzov, Edinburgh, Mogami or Charles Martel? I see no reason. 

We are going to end up with a pretty port slot holder then. I will atleast. Shame. 

 

What do you guys think? Do you think its fine as it is now? Or does it still need some tweaking? 

[Capra76]

Couple of questions:

1. what changes would make it a good T8 CL?
2. what changes would make it borderline o/p at T8?
3. how will the T9/10 be competitive with the same guns?

[loppantorkel]

The old Cleveland wasn't a favourite of mine and being tier 8 makes it worse than before. I haven't played it enough, but Atlanta seems a lot more fun as a HE spamming, dd hunter. Not sure how they should make it better. I'll see how tier 9 and 10 plays like before, but I can't see myself enjoying this if the range increases and a few more guns is what it comes down to. Maybe reducing the turn radius would make the island hopping a bit more enjoyable.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

Radar+hyro+def aaa + low detection+ IFHE.....very stong USA playstyle ship

[ClappingLollies]

6 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

Couple of questions:

1. what changes would make it a good T8 CL?
2. what changes would make it borderline o/p at T8?
3. how will the T9/10 be competitive with the same guns?

1. Give it some velocity and range. Like it had in the old days. 

2. Give it the old velocity and take away the radar and its far from OP.

3. I doubt it. Maybe the T10. Time will tell

[lafeel]

25 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

What do you guys think? Do you think its fine as it is now? Or does it still need some tweaking? 

I think you should have run that one through a spell checker, I mean "wright" instead of write? Oh dear oh dear..

 

On the Cleveland herself, shouldn't play that much different from her tier 6 self, although the radar is a nice touch. Not like being bottom tier in her is exactly new news..

[G01ngToxicCommand0]

21 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

So i've been testing the "new" Cleveland? I wright "new" because in my opinion its the same old T6 but now with radar. I know WG did some other tweaks to it. But its basically the same T6 ship we all loved. There is one big difference though. You fight T10's. All the time. So in essence you have a pretty strong T6 fighting T10's. This is not new and all T8's suffers from this. Although most can do pretty well. The playstyle is the same old. Sit behind an island and spam. Hunt down a DD. Blablabla

 

So what the Cleveland is "good" at now, is the same it was good at in T6. Infact the old would perform almost exactly the same as the new does now. So nothing changed except the radar. (Basically)

Some players have said "oh but you can do alot of dmg with fires and HE spamming". The Cleveland could do that before. Infact almost every cruiser can do that. You can spam down a GKF and farm 150k if the guy is a complete idiot. But if he has some brains he will just rush you down and kill you with a salvo or two and you can't do anything about it. The Cleveland has no threat factor at all. 

I know this, because i've done it many times already. See a Cleveland spamming from behind an island? Just rush him. He can't do anything to you. You can sail full broadside around the island with all the guns (420) blazing without fear of taking any heavy dmg back. 

 

So in my opinion its to weak for a T8 in its current state. If its staying like this, why would i pick it over the Baltimore, Chappy, Kutuzov, Edinburgh, Mogami or Charles Martel? I see no reason. 

We are going to end up with a pretty port slot holder then. I will atleast. Shame. 

 

What do you guys think? Do you think its fine as it is now? Or does it still need some tweaking? 

The game could benefit of a more historical inspired game mode where battles like those fought in the Solomons campaign that mostly consisted of cruisers and destroyers would face up against eachother instead of always having to face battleships as well. Mission objectives other than capping could be used as well.

Much more fun to play cruiser when you are on a level battlefield and where your skill is what matters the most.

[ClappingLollies]

1 minute ago, lafeel said:

I think you should have run that one through a spell checker, I mean "wright" instead of write? Oh dear oh dear..

I'm so so sorry. Hope it's OK for you now. Fixed it for you. 

[lafeel]

Just now, MortenTardo said:

I'm so so sorry. Hope it's OK for you now. Fixed it for you. 

Thank you, it was bugging my cdo.

[illy]

it plays great, had some fun games in it since the new patch

[robihr]

18 minutes ago, lafeel said:

Thank you, it was bugging my cdo.

OCD

 

[Boris_MNE]

My final verdict on T8:

 

I absolutely adore new cleveland. legit awesome ship... it rewards good positioning and punishes rekkles play. I hope worchester is about to be same.

[lafeel]

Just now, robihr said:

OCD

 

CDO: Just the same as OCD, but in proper alphabetical order, as it should be.

[ClappingLollies]

6 minutes ago, illy said:

it plays great, had some fun games in it since the new patch

Without trying to sound like an ahole, do you have some other T8 cruisers to compare it to? Its good if you have fun with it, but in that case you should try some of the others as they are much better imo. 

[ClappingLollies]

3 minutes ago, Boris_MNE said:

My final verdict on T8:

 

I absolutely adore new cleveland. legit awesome ship... it rewards good positioning and punishes rekkles play. I hope worchester is about to be same.

How does it punish reckless play? By spamming said reckless player for 7 minutes? I mean. You can catch a DD of guard, but thats about as close to catching a reckless player as you get. 

[Boris_MNE]

Just now, MortenTardo said:

How does it punish reckless play? By spamming said reckless player for 7 minutes? I mean. You can catch a DD of guard, but thats about as close to catching a reckless player as you get. 

 

 

No, not enemy.

 

If you as Captain of Cleveland are rekkles then yes, you are going to die first.
If you play smart... then ship is very fun and rewarding. (at least for me)

[Panocek]

35 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

1. Give it some velocity and range. Like it had in the old days. 

2. Give it the old velocity and take away the radar and its far from OP.

3. I doubt it. Maybe the T10. Time will tell

Cleveland always had anti moon ordnance, what changed compared to "old days" all ships got massive turning radius buffs, making WSAD hax actually viable. Also Cleve with old AFT had 17ish km of range. You xan get more with spotter... But then near 19s time to impact

[Capra76]

10 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Cleveland always had anti moon ordnance, what changed compared to "old days" all ships got massive turning radius buffs, making WSAD hax actually viable. Also Cleve with old AFT had 17ish km of range. You xan get more with spotter... But then near 19s time to impact

 

Which brings me back to a point I've made before, a lot of the fundamental game design is based around Cleveland being T6, when you move it up to T8 your starting to fight against the in-game laws of physics designed to make Cleveland T6 and it's going to be a major problem.

[ClappingLollies]

8 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

Which brings me back to a point I've made before, a lot of the fundamental game design is based around Cleveland being T6, when you move it up to T8 your starting to fight against the in-game laws of physics designed to make Cleveland T6 and it's going to be a major problem.

I agree with that. Rather a complete re design of the Cleveland. 

[Panocek]

7 minutes ago, Capra76 said:

 

Which brings me back to a point I've made before, a lot of the fundamental game design is based around Cleveland being T6, when you move it up to T8 your starting to fight against the in-game laws of physics designed to make Cleveland T6 and it's going to be a major problem.

And are you aware Worcester will have exactly the same guns ballistics wise? Gearing despite "tier 5 gun physics" is perfectly fine. Ibuki uses the same guns as Furutaka.

 

Just now, MortenTardo said:

I agree with that. Rather a complete re design of the Cleveland. 

And how you would redesign Cleve without giving her fantasy specs? All other ships in game have historical shell velocity and weight, just as Cleveland have.

[ClappingLollies]

10 minutes ago, Panocek said:

And how you would redesign Cleve without giving her fantasy specs? All other ships in game have historical shell velocity and weight, just as Cleveland have.

If it was down to game balance then, Yes! Its not like WG is sticking to historical accuracy with this game. Historical specs? Like papership specs? 

[El2aZeR]

48 minutes ago, Panocek said:

Cleveland always had anti moon ordnance, what changed compared to "old days" all ships got massive turning radius buffs, making WSAD hax actually viable. Also Cleve with old AFT had 17ish km of range. You xan get more with spotter... But then near 19s time to impact

 

I'm pretty sure they also changed the drag to be far worse than it used to be in CBT. Just reverting that and maybe giving her ~500m more range would put her in the perfect spot I believe.

Cleve is definitely not unplayable as she is right now but imo she could use a small buff to her gunnery.

[ClappingLollies]

6 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I'm pretty sure they also changed the drag to be far worse than it used to be in CBT. Just reverting that and maybe giving her ~500m more range would put her in the perfect spot I believe.

Cleve is definitely not unplayable as she is right now but imo she could use a small buff to her gunnery.

I understand that WG wants to be careful releasing new ships. Or re releasing. Its i fine line between OP and UP. But like you say, that would put here in a good spot. 

[Panocek]

6 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

If it was down to game balance then, Yes! Its not like WG is sticking to historical accuracy with this game. Historical specs? Like papership specs? 

Unfortunately Cleveland class isn't some obscure napkin design to take "artist license" to tinker around. 

 

12 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

I'm pretty sure they also changed the drag to be far worse than it used to be in CBT. Just reverting that and maybe giving her ~500m more range would put her in the perfect spot I believe.

Cleve is definitely not unplayable as she is right now but imo she could use a small buff to her gunnery.

All Cleveland CBT footages show shell flight times comparable to ones Cleveland has. This topic was discussed already about two years ago 

 

[AgarwaenME]

1 hour ago, MortenTardo said:

1. Give it some velocity and range. Like it had in the old days. 

2. Give it the old velocity and take away the radar and its far from OP.

3. I doubt it. Maybe the T10. Time will tell

 

Funny thing is, it never had the "old" shell velocity with the "old" range, as the shell velocity was reduced well before the captain skill changes that made them increase its range..

 

Hell, back when it had, armour models still weren't implemented and you could citadel BBs with cleveland AP.

 

While I could see a slight shell velocity buff as appropriate, to where the guns are somewhat effective out to the ships max range, there's a rather short path from "decent" to "borderline op" when you let such a ship apply damage far easier, especially against DDs.