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Mangrey

Fix Tir 8

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Come on WG set a max number of tir 10s when there is tir 8s in the game... it is not fun 

I Would say 3 tri 10s as max when there is Tir 8s 

 

Mang 

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Well now that I can use my Tir Eit Baltimore, the said Tir might not bee as bad anymore

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I guess I should play more T8 cruisers to see if it's really that much suffering, cause in T8 BB and T8 DDs, I certainly don't feel it.

 

Then again, I don't really expect a Chapayev vs T10 to be worse off than Shchors vs T9, and that was manageable...

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14 minutes ago, Mangrey said:

Come on WG set a max number of tir 10s when there is tir 8s in the game... it is not fun 

I Would say 3 tri 10s as max when there is Tir 8s 

 

Mang 

They did that in Tanks actually, the dreaded 3-5-7 template (3 top tiers, 5 mid and 7 bottom).

Tier 8s are in an even worse place after said implementation :Smile_sceptic:

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2 minutes ago, tank276 said:

They did that in Tanks actually, the dreaded 3-5-7 template (3 top tiers, 5 mid and 7 bottom).

Tier 8s are in an even worse place after said implementation :Smile_sceptic:

Tanks work different than ships though.

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2 minutes ago, tank276 said:

They did that in Tanks actually, the dreaded 3-5-7 template (3 top tiers, 5 mid and 7 bottom).

Tier 8s are in an even worse place after said implementation :Smile_sceptic:

Exactly.

 

Don‘t ever ask WG to fix tVIII MM, nothing good will ever come out of it. 

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problem is that WG thinks that MM should be instantaneous... so they make bad MM with available ships...

 

i would be perfectly fine waiting 10-15 seconds to get better MM...

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58 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Tanks work different than ships though.

Agreed...the 3-5-7 would probably work here since even lower tier ships can damage higher tiers with relative ease compared to wot...

Why didn't the 3-5-7 work in wot anyway? It seems like a good idea in theory

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3 minutes ago, domen3 said:

Agreed...the 3-5-7 would probably work here since even lower tier ships can damage higher tiers with relative ease compared to wot...

Why didn't the 3-5-7 work in wot anyway? It seems a good idea in theory

Because preferential matchmaking premiums skew the matchmaker... or so WG says...

 

Well, mostly, people seem to hate it because lower tier tanks don't always stand much of a chance against upper tier ships. But don't quote me, I don't play tanks.

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2 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Because preferential matchmaking premiums skew the matchmaker... or so WG says...

 

Well, mostly, people seem to hate it because lower tier tanks don't always stand much of a chance against upper tier ships. But don't quote me, I don't play tanks.

Truer words could've never been said

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Just now, domen3 said:

Truer words could've never been said

Damn, that coffee sure wasn't strong enough yet. brb

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1 hour ago, Riselotte said:

I guess I should play more T8 cruisers to see if it's really that much suffering, cause in T8 BB and T8 DDs, I certainly don't feel it.

 

Then again, I don't really expect a Chapayev vs T10 to be worse off than Shchors vs T9, and that was manageable...

From what I remember (from a chart showing the number of all games ever in WOT) T9 is the least popular of the high tiers by a noticeable margin, so when you get a T9 game there are usually only 1-3. However T8 vs T10 matchups are a lot more noticeable as you find yourself in one directly engaging the other more often. So it's more a function of 'game feel' than actual relative capabilities.

 

 

36 minutes ago, domen3 said:

Truer words could've never been said

lel. You can actually attack ships with tanks in Advance Wars, and it does practically nothing.

Rockets hiding in a forest, on the other hand... :cap_rambo:

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1 hour ago, domen3 said:

 

Why didn't the 3-5-7 work in wot anyway? It seems like a good idea in theory

Because tier 8s in WOT are populating the "7" bracket instead of the "3" bracket 85% of the time.

The reason it is happening,I dont really know.

There is a second template 5-10 (5 top tiers, 10 bottom tiers) but the 3-5-7 has great statistical advantage for some , again, unknown reason.

The population of Tanks is big enough to always play 5-10 without much delay in queue.

If implemented, it would be +1 -1 and many problems would be solved.

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1 hour ago, domen3 said:

Agreed...the 3-5-7 would probably work here since even lower tier ships can damage higher tiers with relative ease compared to wot...

Why didn't the 3-5-7 work in wot anyway? It seems like a good idea in theory

Because this template guarantees that tier VIII is bottom tier. 

The number of times where tier VIII is top tier decreased significantly. 

 

WoT players want the old MM back, simply because it would mean to be top or mid tier more often. 

 

WoWS allows to get to TX quite fast and we have a lot of TIX and X, so it would basically screw TVIII even harder. 

 

Don‘t ever ask WG to fix what ain‘t broken. People will not like the fixed MM. 

 

 

Edit: Also, the preferential MM excuse WG is giving to screw up the pref MM tanks is not even bull$hit, it‘s horse$hit.

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On 6/2/2018 at 8:22 PM, Freyr_90 said:

Don't you like a challenge? 

 

:Smile_trollface:

well what i Dont like is 9 tir 10s, a tir 9 and 2 tir 8s. Bin ther alot lately. with a cruiser you was just made food. not much fun as a CV eather. The DDs and BB can handle the tiring better. For me it seems the gap between Cruiser at tir 8, 9 and 10 is way to big 

 

mang

 

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tier 8 MM is fine, sadly its screwed over by lowtier +/-1 MM

its domino effect from which in the end T7 profits and T8 is bend over

 

this is the problem, nothing else

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In a t8 cruiser it almost doesn’t even matter anymore overpopulation of bbs makes sure that half of the team is made of them and in all cruisers exept t10s it doesn’t really matter what tier the bb is couse even most t7 bbs will overmatch u (even some t6s) and in the “shell lottery” sooner or later he ll get a bingo unless he is blaped by another bb (and they seldom even shoot each other these days until the end game since cruisers are free XP pinyatas for snipers and easy to farm damage from for a bb) basically if u support the cap with a cruiser (even with a bb tho less so) and u see them push in greatee Numbers then your side u re Done for u can either back up hence they will overtake u and overmatch bow or u can turn to run and get cited to death so all u can do is try to stick to the crowd or spam he and do as much damage u can before ppposite bb gets hos bingo on u.

 

Acctually the most screwed over class by t8-10 spread (7-9 as well) are cvs since most t10 bbs and cruisers simply laugh at their t7 and 8 planes

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I support this idea in principle and have suggested it in the past. Of course WG could screw it up. What it would need is additional rules to create T10 only games to keep the queue for them short and also give T8 a chance to be top tier as well. Incidentally, when T8 is top tier the same rules should apply for how many T8s and T6s can be in that game.

 

The problem is, the more rules you implement the more likely it is they will interact weirdly and have unforseen consequences.

 

Having said that, the problem is not as bad as some people make out. Having played a lot of T8 and now some T9, I have to say I almost feel T9 is in a worse spot. The ships at T9 all seem to lose something compared to T8, usually being less stealthy and more sluggish. With cruisers especially that runs against my playstyle. My T8 cruiser stats across all ships are better than my T9 cruiser stats so far, and there are definitely a few T8 cruisers I would willingly pick into a T10 game over their T9 counterparts. T9 just feels like more of a sidegrade than an upgrade to me. So I don't think T8 MM is too bad unchanged.

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Is it just me, or am I the only one that thinks its absolutely logical that in a 3-5-7 MM you will be bottom tier most of the time?

Think about it

you have 1/5 = 20% chance to be top tier, you have 1/3 = 33% chance to be mid tier, and a remaining 47% chance to be bottom tier. And then we are all surprised that the majority of the time people are bottom tier and complaining about it?

Added to that tier 10 tanks have to be top tier all the time, since there is no real other option. So if you have 100 tanks of each tier (8-9-10) in the queue, you are running into trouble, since for 100 tier 10 tanks in 3-5-7 MM, you would need 100/3*5 =167 tier 9 tanks and 233 tier 8 tanks. Thus tier 8 tanks will only ever play in tier 10, since they are needed to fill up the 3-5-7 MM for tier 10.

Seems simple logic to me that this would screw up the whole MM for any tier below 10. And I cannot fathom why WG devs thought it would be fine. Or they REALLY don't understand simple math.

 

Sorry, but I never understood why people thought this would fix the  whole problem of being bottom tier too often. Or maybe I misunderstood what WG wanted to do with the 3-5-7 MM, I don't really follow WoT anymore since WoWs came out.

 

Maybe I'm missing something here. But this really all seems simple to me.

 

Then again, its not like WoWs is any better... I am bottom tier in tier 8 ships 65% of the time according to my stats. At least, it was a few months ago, I nearly completely stopped playing tier 8 for this reason.

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On 6/2/2018 at 9:30 PM, domen3 said:

Agreed...the 3-5-7 would probably work here since even lower tier ships can damage higher tiers with relative ease compared to wot...

Why didn't the 3-5-7 work in wot anyway? It seems like a good idea in theory

Isn't it obvious?

When a match has an enforced proportion of 3:7 top-bottom tier vehicles, then the chances of being top tier drop significantly (and the chances of being bottom tier significantly increase). Remember these people complaining in WoWs how "most of the time I'm bottom tier and hardly ever a high tier"? In WoWs statistics prove them objectively wrong... With 3-5-7, however, it does become the truth, more or less. And when you factor in the fact that the strength disparity between tiers is much bigger than in WoWs? In WoWs you usually have less DPM than a similar ship 2 tiers higher, less health, perhaps some other disadvantages. But it's not like you have problem damaging your enemy, even if not by very much, right? If you decide to go for a "fair duel" with t8 BB against a t10 one, you will almost certainly lose (unless the enemy makes a huge blunder), but you WILL make that t10 pay with a significant chunk of their life, won't you. A t8 heavy tank, however (especially of the kind that emphasizes defense) has a good chance of going down without doing a single point of damage - because the enemy armor was just that thick, rare enemy weakspots so hard to nail and the enemy gun powerful enough to punch right through your front plate for full damage with hardly any aiming.

 

 

As for WoWs, yes, it would work better - but only because the smaller tier disparities would help to mask the adverse effect of being bottom tier extremely often, even compared to the current situation. Basically: it wouldn't be as bad as WoT, but still pretty bad.

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42 minutes ago, Loran_Battle said:

Added to that tier 10 tanks have to be top tier all the time, since there is no real other option. So if you have 100 tanks of each tier (8-9-10) in the queue, you are running into trouble, since for 100 tier 10 tanks in 3-5-7 MM, you would need 100/3*5 =167 tier 9 tanks and 233 tier 8 tanks. Thus tier 8 tanks will only ever play in tier 10, since they are needed to fill up the 3-5-7 MM for tier 10.

 

Unless the MM detects this and skims off 60 T10s and let them play T10 only games, and another 30 T10s and 60 T9s to play T9-10 only games. Then you have 10 T10s, 40 T9s and 100 T8s to make 3-5-7 T10-9-8 games with enough spare T9s and T8s for them to be top tier in their own games.

 

This would work but would be harder to do. It seems to me at least in WoWs the MM actively tries to fill the 2 tier spread instead of making single tier games at the top end. Maybe that's what needs to change.

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I am the opposite of the "I am lowtier so i can´t do anything" mindset.

 

Especially in higher tiers where ships are more balanced and the difference between the tiers are not as big as in the lower tier sections .

I honestly like the matches in my Tier 8 ships where i am in a tier X match way more than being toptier as tier 8.

 

Many times as tier 8 in a tier 10 match you don´t get seen as a serious threat what gives you a good opportunity to work. 

 

There are a lot of people who are throwing the towel, when they are lowtier or can´t handle the ships when matched lowtier. So when someone does a good job as lowtier, then it´s a big help for the Team.

I say every time. Better be good as low tier, then mediocre as high tier. 

 

Overall i think that system also makes it better for the overall game experience. I like the challenge to be lowtier and I definitely enjoy it. 

I know it it can be sometimes a pain, especially in some ships where you lack range, but it can also be rewarding. 

 

 

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DON'T EVEN MENTION!! EVEN THINK ABOUT TEMPLATE MM HERE!!!

DON'T...

 

I don't want to be %95 bottom tier in my tier 8s and 9s.. It is not fun! Trust me!

That is the reason for me and a lot of players stopped playing WOT.

Template MM gave us,

tier 8 is generally bottom tier. When they are mid tier, it is 5-10 template with tiers 9 and 8

when they are top tier, it is usually 15 template with 15 tier 8 tanks..

I really cannot remember when I was in a match with 8-7-6 tiers. with a tier 8 tank.

 

Tier 10s, usually go in all tier 10 and 10-9 matches..

Template MM is by far the worst idea ever implemented by WG.. ever..

even worse than putting murazor in charge of development...

 

no. please no...

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26 minutes ago, VC381 said:

 

Unless the MM detects this and skims off 60 T10s and let them play T10 only games, and another 30 T10s and 60 T9s to play T9-10 only games. Then you have 10 T10s, 40 T9s and 100 T8s to make 3-5-7 T10-9-8 games with enough spare T9s and T8s for them to be top tier in their own games.

 

This would work but would be harder to do. It seems to me at least in WoWs the MM actively tries to fill the 2 tier spread instead of making single tier games at the top end. Maybe that's what needs to change.

This is what it does in WoT as far as I know. The 3-5-7 is preferred by far over anything else.

In WoWs tier 10 only games don't happen either, I don't even think "tier 11-12" MM exists. Even with 10 tier 10 ships on either side, there is still a tier 8 in there. I for one have never seen nor heard about 12 tier 10 ships on either side. Might happen I guess, but I have never seen it.

But talking about MM in a WG game doesn't do anything. MM is like some holy religion for WG, don't touch it, don't criticize it.

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