Farming damage mentality: a problem to teamplay

[indycar]

ok lets see one guy invented the "yolo" train so we all need to go on the wagon and play (test) it or we can do whatever we want. i know some "tactics" are better than the others

but dont tell ppl how they play (been there done that n just lost nerves when i was tryin to help new testers). if you are no help to a team you will prolly lose and sometimes even win because rest of the team overcame your

bad play . the maps are too small anyway to play proper range battles.  so we go to mid ranges 10-17km. but that doesnt mean you steam ahead in your mighty BB

at the start of the battle and yolo tru the middle of the map just to show how brave you are and die with honour

 

 

[Orlunu]

Geralt_z_Rivii365, on 07 April 2015 - 08:54 PM, said:

But you know that many times half or more of your team dies like a flies and the only way you can win is to save hp for latter(someone else has to die) and do as much dmg as you can to compensate for other members of your team. If dying with them means team play adn they don't even know what team play is because thye are "casual" players... I don't really care then for them or for "team play"

 

There's a hell of a lot of difference between second-lining and kemping boosh in a top tier BB or all of the team's BBs going down a channel thirty feet wide.

 

Smi2k, on 07 April 2015 - 08:57 PM, said:

Why does my nick always get spelled wrong *goes in the corner and cries* 

Hey, mine does too.  The numeral doesn't help yours. 

 

Smi2k, on 07 April 2015 - 08:42 PM, said:

Orlunu, on 07 April 2015 - 09:21 PM, said:

It matters because game problems that encourage this in the tests will also encourage it after release. So ways should be found to change them. 

 

There is not really a resolution to the playerbase that plays the game, so, how would you encourage it, i have though about it and tbh, nothing comes up in my mind, because every player has other stuff that would "encourage" them. And beeing flamed at by those, well, lets say "short tempered" players surely does not encourage me to do anything to play with them. 

 

Edith at this point: Well yes, you could implement higher Credit / exp gain for fighting of planes etc, but well ;)

 

Far greater emphasis on victory/defeat than anything else, to start with.

 

Funny thing as well, server stats are showing some really poor average win rates because of the number of draws.  Games can reduce these problems, and WoWS should.

 

Err well,  NO CAP, KILL ALL is one of those reasons. And of they go hunting a lonesome DD.

 

Yes.  That is completely in line with the point being made.

 

And exactly because it is Beta even CVs should play ramming, that the Devs get more Data even on that right?

 

CVs use planes dont they, let em et least do kamikaze  . But seriously, what does CVs ramming have to do with Players fighting at their maximum range or better said "wanting to fight on maximum range" for data gathering?

 

They're both stupid tactics that require minimal testing because the results should be fairly obvious and they don't need to be balanced when doing them.  "When I play wrong I lose a lot" is not useful data, nor does it take much testing to gather.

 

It does not follow that they should do that exclusively.  They should play mostly on how they should play.  Sure, they should occasionally check on other things, but it's in the tight margins where everyone plays with at least half a brain that the most work has to be done, because that's what matters most by far.

 

Well, i didnt say they HAVE TO. But while a Battleship is there to destroy Cruisers and other Battleships, why should the Battleship driver get into 10km range for a shellin duel? For example, if you fight in Battleship against 3 other Battleships lined up, escorted by 4 cruisers and 1 Destroyer. Do you close the Gap ASAP to get into under 15km? Surely not and why? Certain death. Seen a lot of guys doing it, have to say, its fun, losing every Battleship while they go into CQB one after another without thinking. And thats only pinpointing of them reasons, I for example, stay back the first minutes in a Battleship and go for a ranged fight. If cruisers close in, well, get rekt and so. If the momentum changes, i am going in more "agressive" or play more "defensive" i.e. letting the enemy hunt me.

 

But then again, its up to every player how he / she likes to play but we should´t decide how they have to play

 

I'm not saying that you have to close in no matter what.  I am saying that you shouldn't just stick to extreme range come what may.  I would agree that everyone should just play how they want if this weren't a test.  I don't support similar causes on the other forums I visit.  As it is a test, however, all they are doing is corrupting and biasing the data.

 

 

[Petao_Sofronije]

Just had a domination game with my DD, the "Guadalcanal" map, well my entire team went for A point killing 2 ships that where defending then not going for B they all went to chase 2 CV exposing our CVs to full attack from C point. So I had to go back, dodge fire, pop smoke, and then be a decoy so our CV can escape. CV did manage to leave, I did sink a Omaha, only to come under fire of 4 enemy ships. All that time, mind you that is 4-5min of play, my team was STILL chasing CV who where all the way at C point.

Teamplay or damage chasing??? I say atm 70% of players chase damage at all cost. Teamplay is at low low borderline non existant. Correct me if I am wrong, this is just how I see games/battle developing last 2-3days.

TY

[DBaron]

Just had a domination game with my DD, the "Guadalcanal" map, well my entire team went for A point killing 2 ships that where defending then not going for B they all went to chase 2 CV exposing our CVs to full attack from C point. So I had to go back, dodge fire, pop smoke, and then be a decoy so our CV can escape. CV did manage to leave, I did sink a Omaha, only to come under fire of 4 enemy ships. All that time, mind you that is 4-5min of play, my team was STILL chasing CV who where all the way at C point.

Teamplay or damage chasing??? I say atm 70% of players chase damage at all cost. Teamplay is at low low borderline non existant. Correct me if I am wrong, this is just how I see games/battle developing last 2-3days.

TY

 

Yep, pretty much that. You can already tell at start mostly how its going to be when you see your BBs heading diagonally backwards to the corner to have the optimal range for duelling (20km), the only way to top it of is if one of them is asking the CAs for some AA support... also the only way you get ppl to focus fire a target is if its at low health so someone can sneak in a kill.

 

But thats all not new, not to any multiplayer game it has always been like this and probably will be in random games, one difference to other games is, sometimes you can make a difference as an individual, turning a game around, in WoWs in a CA or DD, you cant do that, atleast not to the extend you can in other games. WoWs is way more teamplay dependant than other games I have played/tried/tested ... thats why it hurts even more to see some of the things going on to the point that it just gets frustrating.

[conductiv]

its a valid concern, one that will probably be more prominent during the open beta and release...well depending on the games popularity.

 

more players you don't know, generally means less teamplay but more focus on individual performance, with individual performance being measured in kills, experience, credits and damage that will be what the average player (me included) is likely to go for.

 

that a individual ship can't carry a game...I don't know. I havn't played CV's yet. CA's seem to weak to do so when I see them in my games but some people seem to praize them to the stratosphere (all I see is a paper class that supports battleships as bonus AA support and a extra close range gun), DDs seem to be capable of doing so due to their insane firepower, high speed and stealth options..but their fragility makes it rather iffy. and BB's well they do have the power, and I have the highest damage averages on them...but they just seem soo slow. 

 

But I do know that I hardly ever trust a random on my team to do what his ship class is supposedly good at, its too often that I see them doing what I consider "dumb" or "ineffective" like sailing a BB all the way on the map edge to the other side of the map..as far away as possible from the fight. so I generally feel that I have to bring the decisive contribution to the fight (when playing a DD or BB)...and I measure that contribution...well either in point totals and cap points held/taken/defended(domination) or damage and kills (standard)

[Sharana]

 

Mate...Damage is winning...this entire thread is false...if ALL of the team members have 100k dmg, chances are that the enemy team is long gone...

 

The issue is HOW you do that damage...because it has to be TEAM damage...if one does 100k from 20 kliks while the rest die to protect him...THAT EQUALS ZERO...

 

Sadly it's not always like that, especially in the domination games.

 

Like WoT player with 2000WN8 I'm farming damage when it's worth it and carry games, because others who don't shoot so good die instead of me. It's working pretty well in WoT, but here it's not always like that. Yes you can influence the battle, but not to the same degree as in WoT and it's much harder too. You are just much more team dependant here. Even if you snipe the whole damage and accumulate a lot of damage in your BB your team will be playing without your massive hp when attacking the enemy, thats huge disadvantage. On a very good game you can manage to make a draw, because you saved yourself during the game and the enemy won't be able to kill you, BUT you wont have time to kill them all either. Every situation is individual of course, but I will prefer to get in close combat if I'm not outnumbered where I will deal more damage very fast, because 10km duel is not lottery, but aiming skill+RNG. In this situations my friendly cruisers can do their job without beeing 2shotted by the enemy BBs while I snipe from 20km. CV captains also just love Rambo BBs (lonely BBs without escort) and no matter how good you are you will suffer from those planes (damm clickers) when you are without your escort.

 

Now I don't say make YOLO rush and die fast, that's as stupid as sniping the whole game from max range. Just use your brains while playing and think about the win and not about your personal damage. If you have high avarage damage with 46% win ration you won't be good player and it's not because of bad teams either! When playing domination I see that in many cases exactly aggressive BBs win the game! Because when they push toward specific point they cap and nothing can stop them. If the enemy BBs are far behind sniping from max range the enemy cruisers and DDs are killed pretty fast or they just run away from those locations and the cap points are lost. Then those sniper BBs are left only with their lottery shots and complain in the chat that MM puts them in bobs teams who die fast and domination mode should be removed too...

[DBaron]

 

Sadly it's not always like that, especially in the domination games.

 

Like WoT player with 2000WN8 I'm farming damage when it's worth it and carry games, because others who don't shoot so good die instead of me. It's working pretty well in WoT, but here it's not always like this. Yes you can influence the battle, but not to the same degree as in WoT. You are much more team dependant here. Even if you snipe the whole damage and accumulate a lot of damage in your BB your team will be playing without your massive hp when attacking the enemy. On a very good game you can manage to make a draw, because the enemy won't be able to kill you, but you wont have time to kill them all either. Every situation is individual of course, but I will prefer to get in close combat if I'm not outnumbered where I will deal more damage very fast, because 10km duel is not lottery, but aiming skill+RNG. In this situations my friendly cruisers can do their job without beeing 2shotted by the enemy BBs while I snipe from 20km.

 

Now I don't say make YOLO rush and die fast, that's as stupid as sniping the whole game from max range. Just use your brains while playing and think about the win and not about your personal damage. If you have high avarage damage with 46% win ration you won't be good player. When playing domination I see that in many cases exactly aggressive BBs win the game! Because when they push toward specific point they cap and nothing can stop them. If the enemy BBs are far behind sniping from max range the enemy cruisers and DDs are killed pretty fast and the cap points are lost. Then those sniper BBs are left only with their lottery shots and complain in the chat that MM put them in bobs team who died fast and domination mode should be removed...

 

Exactly that +1