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FearsomeFlotsam

Cleveland doesn't seem very good

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Based on reputation, I was grinding up Cleveland with some anticipation, but now I've got it it doesn't seem very good. It has the unfortunate combination of no armour and no range, meaning that you're compelled to get close but cannot survive when you do. I seem to get citadelled from any and all angles, or have the frustration of pottering about with the enemy 1-2km beyond reach. Is there some special trick to it? I'm finding it much less fun than either Omaha or Phoenix.

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The trick is not to go to the enemy, but get into a position where the enemy has to come to you, prefereably nearby an island that is just high enough that you can lob your shells over it (thanks to those freedom mortars) whilst their more shallow ballistic arcs just result in their counterfire smacking into the island you keep between you and the enemy. That way you can rain down shells (literally) on the enemy with near impunity as long as you keep the enemy firing angles checked.

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If you think the Cleveland has bad armor, god have mercy on your soul if you ever decide to use Japanese, British, Russian, French, or T7-10 American cruisers. 

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1 minute ago, Exocet6951 said:

If you think the Cleveland has bad armor, god have mercy on your soul if you ever decide to use Japanese, British, Russian, French, or T7-10 American cruisers. 

Both T6 and T8 Cleveland are overmatched by most battleships in their tier brackets, in both cases citadel barely peeks out of water. Though at T8 usual engagement distances are longes, thus (BB) shells tend to fall at steeper angle. Kinda the same reason Odinburger feels so weak compared to Fiji, despite the same citadel protection and position.

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The elements of the Clubland

Spoiler

indirect_fire_illustrated_tmb.png

 

Kiting

IMG_6385.JPG?v=1493946946

 

Brute force - the closer you get, the more effective your dpm will become. You can 1v1 almost any cruiser and any DD.

pic2564896.jpg

 

Anti-Air

4543544723.jpg

 

 

The only problem can be aiming

 

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1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Both T6 and T8 Cleveland are overmatched by most battleships in their tier brackets, in both cases citadel barely peeks out of water. Though at T8 usual engagement distances are longes, thus (BB) shells tend to fall at steeper angle. Kinda the same reason Odinburger feels so weak compared to Fiji, despite the same citadel protection and position.

 

That's common to every single cruiser at that tier.

Cleveland is extremely resistant to AP fire compared to the others I listed. Clevelands are usually killed by the accumulation of regular penetrations.
If he feels that's extremely weak, then he's going to have a very hard time coping with other cruisers.

Yet another reason why Cleveland at T6 was just stupid.
It distorted everyone's perception of T6 cruisers, from armor to firepower.

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The durability of the Cleveland actually comes from the fact that the entire ship is pretty lightly armored overall, meaning large caliber AP shells have some difficulties digging into it. It is suprisingly hard to burst down a Cleveland compared to the Phoenix and Omaha which are some of the most squishy cruisers in the game.

 

The 14.6 km range is sufficent considering the arcs, if it had longer range even BB's would be annoying to hit (the old AFT proved that quite well). So the Cleveland is a more defensive area denial cruiser. Find and island or terrain, lob shells at anything that dares sail into your range and use that amazing AA bubble to protect that area and your team.

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If you think the Cleveland is bad, Buy the Molotov and try and take hits in that , You should watch some how to play Cleveland clips.. use island cover more, its great fun when you get good, but sadly if u end up in a bad matchmaking of manly T8's you will suffer.. But don't get disheartened by the Cleveland, just hand back, angle, and try to start as many fires as possible.. hard with a 14.6 range but its doable.. ;) dont give up m8. she just plays a little different to the Phoenix and Omaha. 

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OK, given your extensive expertise in warships, we will take your word on face value and conclude that the ship is fine, you suck.

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Juanx with the social skills again.. barely worth commenting on.

 

I have to disagree on the Phoenix and the Omaha - certainly in the latter case, I'm pretty sure I'd rather take that into any given battle than the Cleveland. I can deal with cruisers being squishy (I'm fine playing Nurnberg, La Galissonniere and Omaha), but not with them being squishy AND having no range.

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I prefer playing the Phoenix and the Omaha to the Cleveland in Random battles.

 

The Cleveland comes into its' own in bot battles. Defense of Newport and all that. Where the excellent DPM allows you to whack the bots down very quickly - especially bot cruisers broadside on.

 

The Cleveland is, at least, a more competitive ship than the Pepsi and New Orleans.

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Personally I much prefer the Budyonny to the Cleveland these days. Cleveland was among the most OP ships in the game's history before both the BFT/AFT changes and the changes to its armour model. I wonder if a little bit of its reputation today survives from that time and people feel it's a little stronger than it actually is. It's still a very strong ship, but I'd 'only' rank it as the third best T6 cruiser now after the Buddy and the Leander. Like the Buddy it needs a good captain and, crucially, IFHE for it to really shine but it's more susceptible to taking HE damage, it has significantly lower range, worse ballistics and slower turrets. Its great AA is too situational to fully make up for that.

 

However, to say that it's not very good I'm afraid I can't agree at all. It's still an absolute DPM monster and a flame thrower if you allow it to be one and don't put it into a position where you're too heavily focused and vulnerable.

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4 hours ago, DangerousDave2k said:

Based on reputation, I was grinding up Cleveland with some anticipation, but now I've got it it doesn't seem very good. It has the unfortunate combination of no armour and no range, meaning that you're compelled to get close but cannot survive when you do. I seem to get citadelled from any and all angles, or have the frustration of pottering about with the enemy 1-2km beyond reach. Is there some special trick to it? I'm finding it much less fun than either Omaha or Phoenix.

Ship being good doesn't guarantee that she's going to fit your playstyle.

I personally don't like Cleveland but that doesn't make her a bad ship. In fact, there are some arguably OP ships that I don't like very much either.

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7 minutes ago, eliastion said:

Ship being good doesn't guarantee that she's going to fit your playstyle.

I personally don't like Cleveland but that doesn't make her a bad ship. In fact, there are some arguably OP ships that I don't like very much either.

A thousand thanks for saying that! :Smile_honoring:

I feel the same way too - but I thought that it was just me.

 

Conversely, I also love some ships that other people don't rate very much. :Smile_smile:

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The cleveland is just in a position where you have to completely rework your playstyle from the previous cruisers of that line ANd the MM you get.

And for players not comfortable in cruiser play that can be very hard. You need to get used to the shell arcs of the cleveland while dealing with T8 MM a lot of the times AND your dependend on islands as well.

If u get used to the playstyle of the cleveland and get more comfortable in cruisers the ship itself will be quite fun. 

Not that the playstyle is for everyone tho.

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On 27/05/2018 at 2:30 PM, ColonelPete said:

Yeah, it is so bad that is only barely the second best silver cruiser at the moment (and that can change each week):

 

image.thumb.png.5efbe0804ab8cd4a6a9bcb4c9bf961dd.png

http://maplesyrup.sweet.coocan.jp/wows/ranking/index.html

The interesting thing I see here is that not only does Cleveland have (almost) the most ordnance fired at it, it still survives more often than all the rest.  I'd be interested to see what you think of it when you have it replaced with Dallas, which I expect to be armored with paper like almost all the rest of the T6 cruisers.  Or when you see how squishy Pensacola is.  Personally I will gravely miss it in T6 Ops, especially the ones where extreme AA is a benefit.  It lives the longest, has very high dpm and is the only CL that can obliterate entire air wings solo, repeatedly.

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Said it before and I'll say it again: If you can't make the Cleveland in her current state work, then quite frankly USN cruisers are not for you.

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8 minutes ago, Xanta99 said:

The interesting thing I see here is that not only does Cleveland have (almost) the most ordnance fired at it, it still survives more often than all the rest.  I'd be interested to see what you think of it when you have it replaced with Dallas, which I expect to be armored with paper like almost all the rest of the T6 cruisers.  Or when you see how squishy Pensacola is.  Personally I will gravely miss it in T6 Ops, especially the ones where extreme AA is a benefit.  It lives the longest, has very high dpm and is the only CL that can obliterate entire air wings solo, repeatedly.

I dot not see a problem for Ops.

In random one has to see. But armor is not that important for survival, the playstile is.

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Cleveland is a blast. I love her. And I will miss her.

Shines as an island hugger spamming HE powered with IFHE and DE. Plus its an awesome AA platform.

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1 hour ago, lafeel said:

Said it before and I'll say it again: If you can't make the Cleveland in her current state work, then quite frankly USN cruisers are not for you.

I kind of disagree with that statement. I find the cleveland to just be a more extreme case of the american line. While others play similarly, they aren't as bad in many aspects of their gameplay.

 

For example: Cleveland's shells are horribly slow, and while the US cruisers are notorious for having slow shells, the rest don't have shells THAT slow, and can still be effective at max range. (When not firing at DDs anyway)

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Cleveland is a beast imo. And the floaty shells are easy to deal with if you're used to also playing the Atlanta.

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On ‎27‎.‎5‎.‎2018 at 2:55 PM, DangerousDave2k said:

I seem to get citadelled from any and all angles, or have the frustration of pottering about with the enemy 1-2km beyond reach. Is there some special trick to it?

Cleveland's citadel is very close to the waterline ; The closer you are to the enemy, the harder it is to citadel. I'm not saying that you should brawl with it (which it can do in certain circumstances) but to avoid long range AP salvos at all costs. No matter how you do it, but that should be your primary objective when considering survivability.  In closer range most of the AP shells will overpenetrate.

 

Then the firing range, it is really not that bad because the shells are "quite" floaty and hard to land hits to very long / long ranges. Island hugging and friendly smokes are the thing in these kind of ships. So, map and teamplay dependand ship in that matter.

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I have to agree with @eliastion here: The Cleveland is a good ship. But her playstyle isn't for everybody.

 

So @DangerousDave2k try her out a bit, and if she doesn't suit you, leave her be for a few hundred games where you try other ships and if you then want to, come back to her.

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