Graf zepplin

[MadSlob]

Im totally and utterly gutted by the Op ness of the graf zepplin...i was a full health Amagi who lost all 66k health in one strike by the graf zepplins bombers...NOT torpedo bombers...Bomb bombers!!!..what the hell is going on with that thing???..Our cv 8who was pink blew up at the start of the match...dunno whether it was because he saw the graf zepplin or not...wargaming you cannot allow an op ship like this to exist in its present state...Its an insult to all those who grind their ships to a decent level !!! kudos to the player  who drove her...Im not in the least bit having a go at him...rather at the Dev team who allow a cv to be so Op !!

[Jethro_Grey]

Well, there's only one issue: Graf Zeppelin is not OP.

[wilkatis_LV]

GZ being OP, lol That's a good one

 

The only t8 CV who I'd be less happy to see in my team would be the Lexington, for obvious reasons.

 

GZ is great if Lady Luck smiles on it and RNG leads every bomb to its target. But then again - please name one ship that would perform badly in such a situation?

If the "luck" or "RNG" on that ship is anything between "terrible" and "pretty typical" it's almost worthless

 

Also it sounds like your CV simply dropped some ally

[Boris_MNE]

GZ op confirmed.

[HaachamaShipping]

GZ is not OP. It's just flying Asashio.

[El2aZeR]

GZ is one of the most worthless CVs to ever grace this game.

[Boris_MNE]

3 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

GZ is one of the most worthless CVs to ever grace this game.

 

R u CV player?
Who asked you to elaborate on CVs?

Doors are in THAT directions...

 

OP has right. That crap has to be nerfed urgently... I propose to let her only HE, no AP bombers. Take away 20% hp of fighters  and reduce their number by 3.
If ship overperforms even then, we can talk about new nerfs.

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Maybe that will teach you how dangerous CVs are and that you should not go alone somewhere unless you have good enough AA ;)

[Boris_MNE]

Just now, El2aZeR said:

 

My friend, you have a long way to go before you are worthy of a Skybuck.

 

 

 

I hate you.

[ghostbuster_]

1 hour ago, MadSlob said:

NOT torpedo bombers...Bomb bombers!!!..

"Bomb-bombers" 

[pzkpfwv1d]

I agree that the GZ is seriously overpowered, I have come up against it in Lexington, Enterprize and Shokaku and it just easts the fighter from those ships without even slowing down.  Two groups of fighters arrive together against the 8 fighters from the GZ, and just disappear without even scoring one kill, this has happened time and again.  Put fighters on high AA target and still the GZ fighters just breeze through them and clear the way for the dive bombers to kill the target 

 

The number of fighters need to be reduced by at least 37.5% or maybe even 50% for other CV's in the same tier to stand a remote chance against the GZ

 

[Commander_Cornflakes]

Vor 1 Minute, pzkpfwv1d sagte:

I agree that the GZ is seriously overpowered, I have come up against it in Lexington, Enterprize and Shokaku and it just easts the fighter from those ships without even slowing down.  Two groups of fighters arrive together against the 8 fighters from the GZ, and just disappear without even scoring one kill, this has happened time and again.  Put fighters on high AA target and still the GZ fighters just breeze through them and clear the way for the dive bombers to kill the target 

 

The number of fighters need to be reduced by at least 37.5% or maybe even 50% for other CV's in the same tier to stand a remote chance against the GZ

 

Let me guess, you have absolutely no idea about CV gameplay? You don't know about Strafing at all?

That one fighter squad is ridiculously easy to beat with Shokaku or Enterprise as your 2 fighter squads are so much more flexible.

[Chaos_Umbra]

The only thing OP about the GZ is that stupid circle drop pattern on the Dive bombers it means maneuvering does nothing to avoid be in hit, had 1 take out half the HP of my GK today, its the one CV I really fear when playing a German, Italian or IJN BB, thought the US AP dive bombers are just as deadly but actually require micro to land all the bombs...

[lafeel]

Maybe next time stay close to a friendly ship with actually decent aa eh OP. Certainly should help keep those pesky DB's away.

[viceadmiral123]

I half expected this to be a topic from a DD user getting obliterated by GZ's secondaries and German sonar. But yeah, the noob-proof dive bombers may work as well :)

[eliastion]

6 hours ago, Chaos_Umbra said:

The only thing OP about the GZ is that stupid circle drop pattern on the Dive bombers

It's worse than that. It's not OP - it's the epitome of bad game design. Basically, it takes away both

1. The ability of GZ's player to achieve better results by setting up the approach in a more effective way (like you can get better results on normal DBs going lenghth-wise and on torp bombers by striking from the side)

2. The ability of GZ's target to minimize the damage by positioning well (like turning into torps or inviting a broadside drop from DBs)

 

It's a drop pattern that removes the interaction between the CV and <target> players - leaving only the RNG.

[WingedHussar_Adler]

8 hours ago, MadSlob said:

Im totally and utterly gutted by the Op ness of the graf zepplin...i was a full health Amagi who lost all 66k health in one strike by the graf zepplins bombers...NOT torpedo bombers...Bomb bombers!!!..what the hell is going on with that thing???..Our cv 8who was pink blew up at the start of the match...dunno whether it was because he saw the graf zepplin or not...wargaming you cannot allow an op ship like this to exist in its present state...Its an insult to all those who grind their ships to a decent level !!! kudos to the player  who drove her...Im not in the least bit having a go at him...rather at the Dev team who allow a cv to be so Op !!

agree.....their bombers dont drop bombs but small I WIN buttons

[Prospect_b]

8 hours ago, Jethro_Grey said:

Well, there's only one issue: Graf Zeppelin is not OP.

I think he mistakes OP with broken.

 

And in that regard, GZ is broken beyond belief.

 

 

And yeah, people can say it can get countered easily by decent shoka/enterprise/whatever as much as they want. @El2aZeR, @Boris_MNE or whomever who plays buttload of carriers, can you please regale us once again with tales about that vast amount of glorious CV players you meet daily?

[Boris_MNE]

4 minutes ago, PzychoPanzer said:

I think he mistakes OP with broken.

 

And in that regard, GZ is broken beyond belief.

 

 

And yeah, people can say it can get countered easily by decent shoka/enterprise/whatever as much as they want. @El2aZeR, @Boris_MNE or whomever who plays buttload of carriers, can you please regale us once again with tales about that vast amount of glorious CV players you meet daily?

 

 

 

Young padawan, one needs much time to elaborate on given topic but I assure you it is worth listening.

 

 

For sake of saying something useful:

Once I launched my planes from Midway went through middle directly  and oneshotted enemy Midway in 17th minute.

 

Ez pz

[loppantorkel]

I don't play cvs and I wouldn't enter the argument about GZ being OP or not when cv players say it's not... ...but it can be terrifying to see those GZ bombers come when you know the damage they do. If 2 GZ enter the game, could they be considered OP in terms of strike power?

3 minutes ago, Boris_MNE said:

For sake of saying something useful:

Once I launched my planes from Midway went through middle directly  and oneshotted enemy Midway in 17th minute.

 

Ez pz

...and people had a thrilling game thereafter, I assume.

[Prospect_b]

10 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

I don't play cvs and I wouldn't enter the argument about GZ being OP or not when cv players say it's not... ...but it can be terrifying to see those GZ bombers come when you know the damage they do. If 2 GZ enter the game, could they be considered OP in terms of strike power?

Nah, it's perfectly ok when RNGesus blesses you. See short clip https://clips.twitch.tv/SparklingNeighborlySkirretChefFrank

 

That's A tirp & Bismarck AA combined, and if I'm not mistaken with that hipper's defAA active. Zero f4cks were given. For when BB Kevin feels like playing carrier

[loppantorkel]

2 minutes ago, PzychoPanzer said:

Nah, it's perfectly ok. See short clip https://clips.twitch.tv/SparklingNeighborlySkirretChefFrank

 

That's A tirp & Bismarck AA combined, and that hipper's defAA active. Zero f4cks were given. For when BB Kevin feels like playing carrier

Yea... and since a competent cv of another kind may counter GZ, it's not OP by definition..?

[Prospect_b]

16 minutes ago, loppantorkel said:

Yea... and since a competent cv of another kind may counter GZ, it's not OP by definition..?

There's a difference between broken and overpowered.

 

Broken means that a ship is for example almost immune to heavy damage; and/or does retarded amounts of damage; and/or has some other attributes that are just stupidly unbalanced. (stealth/consumables/etc)

 

Overpowered means that it is way too easy to carry/win games with a ship. At least that's how I understand it.

 

 

That means that an OP ship automatically also is broken; but not the other way around: not every broken ship is OP.

 

 

Broken is things like monqueror or, for this topic, GZ. It is not a given that their winrates will be above a normal scale, even when driven by (semi)competent drivers.

 

Belfast is OP. My own WR in it is 79%, solo 72%. Way beyond what I would or better, SHOULD,  be able to do in a normal t7 cruiser.

It's brokenness is implied, in this case being t8 stealth module (becoming a trend, see z39) + smoke+radar+hydro+disgustingIFHE+verygoodAP.

(edit: did I really forgot about it's great AA suite )

 

 

(But it is the most relaxing thing to play after having met a few too many braindead teams, cause who needs them in that thing, except for temporary distraction of the enemy. And it makes decent creds)

[Flavio1997]

from the perspective of a good cv player I have to admit that IMHO is op, yesterday I found one with the 3/0/2 loadout in my Lexy, in the first strafe I shot down 31 planes ( all his bombers and a half of his fighters of 1 squadron  )), at the end of the battle I had 51 planes shot down and 121k of damage ( he had shot down 26 om mine), he still outdamaged me by 50k of damage (I asked him, and 170k of damage at tier 8 means 3 bbs deleted), and the other problem is how it delivers the damage, it just oneshot things or damage bbs with almost non recoverable damage (10%) with almost any skill needed

[Azalgor]

Its a crap ship, and if you talk about its AP bombs, then remove them out of the game completely so that in any case US would not cause to much pain too.