Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
The_Listener

Z-39 Stats

17 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

Players
41 posts

I recently bought the premium KMS DD Z-39 and found it capable but the one thing that bothers me is its slow speed (max 36 kts.) Now I checked with wiki regarding actual Z39 specs and found out that its 70,000 hp turbine engine can move it at 38 kts. at maximum speed. Compared with IJN DD Akatsuki with a 50,000 hp engine sails at 38 kts. so what slows the Z-39 down? Does WG based the ships stats on historical values or they just made up ship stats on their own? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_destroyer_Z39

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BYOB]
[BYOB]
Players
4,745 posts
21,161 battles
1 minute ago, The_Listener said:

 Does WG based the ships stats on historical values or they just made up ship stats on their own?

A lot of the stats are modified in the name of "balans"! Not to be confused with balanced design. WG just works on the ship until it fits the tier in their opinion, not the other way around as it should be. That's why so many ships have really weird stats compared to others.

  • Funny 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[NWP]
Players
2,991 posts
17,341 battles
6 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

A lot of the stats are modified in the name of "balans komrad"! Not to be confused with balanced design. WG just works on the ship until it fits the tier in their opinion, not the other way around as it should be. That's why so many ships have really weird stats compared to others.

FIFY

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
41 posts
14 minutes ago, Aragathor said:

A lot of the stats are modified in the name of "balans"! Not to be confused with balanced design. WG just works on the ship until it fits the tier in their opinion, not the other way around as it should be. That's why so many ships have really weird stats compared to others.

So they "balans" the ship on what they think would be ok for it? I see now, since I started playing this game I thought all ships are "historically recreated"... What a bad way to find out..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SICK]
Weekend Tester
5,131 posts
11,146 battles

Well for one, the ship's hull is what determines max speed, to an obvious limit of practicality, ie: a motorcycle engine won't push a battleship to 30 knots, no matter how much time you give it.

The engine's power contributes to its acceleration to said max speed, not the max speed itself.

 

So to answer your question what slows the Z-39 down compared to the Akatzuki? Well, practically nothing.
If they're both well designed, both of their hulls have similar enough max speed to call it identical.
The difference being that the Z-39 will accelerate to 38 knots quicker.
 

 

More reading material if you're interested:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-relation-between-engine-power-and-displacement-boat-speed

It's just the result of a quick google search for a source, but it'll do for a rudimentary explanation.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
41 posts
4 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

Well for one, the ship's hull is what determines max speed, to an obvious limit of practicality, ie: a motorcycle engine won't push a battleship to 30 knots, no matter how much time you give it.

The engine's power contributes to its acceleration to said max speed, not the max speed itself.

 

So to answer your question what slows the Z-39 down compared to the Akatzuki? Well, practically nothing.
If they're both well designed, both of their hulls have similar enough max speed to call it identical.
The difference being that the Z-39 will accelerate to 38 knots quicker.
 

 

More reading material if you're interested:
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-relation-between-engine-power-and-displacement-boat-speed

It's just the result of a quick google search for a source, but it'll do for a rudimentary explanation.
 

I'm just confused of how a 50,000hp engine ship can beat a 70,000 hp engine one regarding top speeds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Beta Tester
1,036 posts
11,131 battles

Those 150mm guns weighed a lot more than other guns. I've read reports of German captains lamenting them, as they caused the ship to be bow heavy, which is not good as far as sea keeping is concerned, and combined with a shorter bow, restricted their use in moderate and heavy seas. A ship that is bow heavy will dig in to the sea, causing excess drag, and no amount of extra HP will solve that.

 

The Z-39s displacement,3600 tons (weight of water displaced) was  almost twice as much as the Akatsuki (2080 tons).  So the Z-39 is not so nimble in comparison. As to how WG represent her? Whims and dreams.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SICK]
Weekend Tester
5,131 posts
11,146 battles
1 minute ago, The_Listener said:

I'm just confused of how a 50,000hp engine ship can beat a 70,000 hp engine one regarding top speeds.


It's all about the hull's shape and water displacement.
If we assume both ships' hulls' max top speed is 38 knots in order not to complicate our lives with extra factors, it doesn't matter one has a 50k bhp and the other a 200k bhp engine, the ships just aren't going faster than 38 knots.

The one with the bigger engine is reaching 38 knots much more quickly though.

It's not exactly intuitive, I'll grant you that, but that's essentially the explanation.
If they made the bow a bit longer, the Z-39 using the exact same engine would have been a bit faster.

If they had made it a bit lighter and it lifted out of the water a bit more thus keeping a similar shape but having less drag, it would have been faster using the exact same engine.

 

  • Cool 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BYOB]
[BYOB]
Players
4,745 posts
21,161 battles
13 minutes ago, The_Listener said:

I'm just confused of how a 50,000hp engine ship can beat a 70,000 hp engine one regarding top speeds.

Have you considered the weight of the ships? Akatsuki had 2k long tons of weight and Z-39 3,5k long tons.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[KAKE]
Players
2,728 posts
6,701 battles
52 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

If we assume both ships' hulls' max top speed is 38 knots in order not to complicate our lives with extra factors, it doesn't matter one has a 50k bhp and the other a 200k bhp engine, the ships just aren't going faster than 38 knots.

The one with the bigger engine is reaching 38 knots much more quickly though.

That is a bit of an oversimplification.

 

The maximum speed of a vessel is determined by the point where the resistance from the movement of the hull through the water is equal to the maximum thrust from the propeller(s). The drag of a displacement hull is usually some form of exponential function, which indeed means that as you increase the speed, you will eventually reach a point where you need a lot of extra thrust for little gain.

 

Thrust... well, that's a royal pain in the arse, tbh. I've done quasi-static analyses where thrust is linearized around zero speed, and even that is rather frustrating to work with. Propeller thrust at speed is a messy function that consists of an often nonlinear relation between shaft torque, propeller rotational speed and the relative speed of the liquid flow around the prop. It is, for example, entirely possible for a combination of engine and propeller to deliver a lot more thrust at low ship speeds than at higher ship speeds. 

 

But the point is that it's not just about hull design. Maximum speed can be limited by propeller thrust, in which case more power and/or a different propeller design can yield a marked increase in speed. But once you have a propulsion design that delivers enough thrust at high vessel speed to maintain the hull's design speed, then it starts to require a lot more effort for a miniscule increase in speed. And a larger engine alone might also not necessarily provide more acceleration. That again depends on how well it's matched to the propeller design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[WCWVE]
Players
1,050 posts
16,807 battles

As Aragathor and Akula971 said stated the difference is in the displaced weight of water for the hull Akatzuki displaces approximately 2080 long tons with an engine giving a maximum of 50000 SHP which equates to just over 24 shp per tons, whereas the Z39 has a displacement of 3633 long tons with and engine giving 70000 SHP which equates to 19.26 SHP per ton displaced 

Akatzuki SHP per ton displaced per knot of speed 0.63 SHP 

Z39 SHP per ton displaced per knot of speed 0.53 SHP (game stats) or real life stats 0.51 SHP 

As you can see from the above correlation of figures the Z39 hull design is more efficient at converting power to speed than that of the Akatzuki

If you gave the Z39 the same SHP per ton per knot as the Akatzuki the Z39 would be slower still as the SHP per ton developed is only 80% of that of the Akatzuki therefore theoretically the Z39 should only be capable of just 30.4 knots 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[LAFIE]
Beta Tester
5,110 posts
5,480 battles

Pretty sure that the Z-23 class never achieved 38 knots in rl, except maybe on trials. And definetly not with that 150mm double turret installed.

 

Weighing down a fairly fine lined hull like that one with guns that heavy is a bad idea, for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[N3XUS]
Players
1,101 posts
23,878 battles
6 hours ago, The_Listener said:

I recently bought the premium KMS DD Z-39 and found it capable but the one thing that bothers me is its slow speed (max 36 kts.) Now I checked with wiki regarding actual Z39 specs and found out that its 70,000 hp turbine engine can move it at 38 kts. at maximum speed. Compared with IJN DD Akatsuki with a 50,000 hp engine sails at 38 kts. so what slows the Z-39 down? Does WG based the ships stats on historical values or they just made up ship stats on their own? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_destroyer_Z39

Z-39...uhmmmm, you know, for me it is: go get it(!)..and then i ask myself "why get it"? (=will I realy play it?)...etc....overall: ship seems kind of real ok(!)...kind of Maass(VII) powershooter, but Z-39, well, this one PAYS-OUT(!) the credits after the battle. imo dont''t worry about speed 36 vs 38 knots (in practice this does realy not matter much); engine power is important and realize this: Grozovoi (X) has 73.000 engine power, so, no significant differences there. Just watched a YT-vid about Z-39 made by Notser..and yes...decided me to purchase the Z-39 also, after I finish posting this comment. Z-39 = Ok ship; I already decided to play it with the 128mm guns (not the 150mm..= not my playing-style).

 

Besides the above: imo never ever compare 2 totally different ships (Akatsuki(VII) vs Z-39 (VII), since, such is quite an impossibility, Akatsuki being a totally different ship (play-style, i mean): as a matter of fact Akatsuki (VII) happens to be my very favourite DD (I am only an average player, but I very often perform to play as (Super-)Unicum-level with it, carrying teams to win with it. Akatsuki (in fact my little Shimakaze(X))..is kind like this:

 

House Of Flying Daggers (The Echo Game Scene)

Look it up at Youtube: it in fact tells you EXACTLY how Akatsuki (VII) & Shima (X) have to be played (both ships are to be played in very subtile ways..if so..they both are extremely menacing to enemy ships, for sure!)

 

My capt skill setting for Akatsuki (VII):

 

1) PM

2)AR + LS

3)TA + DE

4) RL + CE

 

Z-39 = totally different ship (high health + 75% shooter-ship). So, now I am gonna get my own Z-39 since I already have an idle 19-points DD-capt "hanging around" lol:cap_like::cap_popcorn:

  • Boring 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
41 posts
9 hours ago, Yaskaraxx said:

Z-39 = Ok ship; I already decided to play it with the 128mm guns (not the 150mm..= not my playing-style).

Z-39 has 128mm guns? Pray tell where?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
41 posts
16 hours ago, Aragathor said:

Have you considered the weight of the ships? Akatsuki had 2k long tons of weight and Z-39 3,5k long tons.

Considering this->https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_destroyer_Z39

I have arrived to a conclusion that maybe the in-game Z39 is a "fully-loaded' in terms of the ship's displacement that is why WG arrived with 36 knots top speed only.. But should they also apply this to other ships as well in spirit of fairness?

Ex:

1. Gearing (in-game top speed 36 knots.) almost no change from real-life Gearing fully loaded or not  --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gearing-class_destroyer

2. Ognevoi (in-game top speed 37 knots.) no change from real-life Ognevoi fully loaded or not --> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ognevoy-class_destroyer

 

So you see WG is not consistent with their "balans-ing" techniques and we're just talking only about DD's and top speeds..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[HOO]
Players
2,191 posts
1 hour ago, The_Listener said:

Z-39 has 128mm guns? Pray tell where?

 

I wish, I'd swap the 150's for 128's and a sensible reload in a heartbeat. As we all know it's not an option, the ship only comes with the slow firing 150mm guns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[N3XUS]
Players
1,101 posts
23,878 battles
5 hours ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

I wish, I'd swap the 150's for 128's and a sensible reload in a heartbeat. As we all know it's not an option, the ship only comes with the slow firing 150mm guns.

Seems Z-39 indeed has the 4x 150 mm (no choice there), but then again, seems I did VERY well with those 150mm in my first battles! The 150mm's give "hard-hitting" & makes the Z-39 a very dangerous menace for cruisers also; fire-starting = real ok with the 150 mm's + 12kms range is enough & enemy dd's realy have to fear those 150mm (150mm's do devastating damage on enemy dd's). So, for me, it provides real good game-play. Noticed in stats (presented after the battles) that the 150 mm guns time after time appear to do real good damage. So, it's all fine with me:cap_popcorn:

 

my setting for 19-points capt atm:

 

1) PM

2)AR + LS

3)TAE + SI

4) RL + CE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×