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Redcap375

Help screw the nut with friendly CV captains

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Chaps :cap_tea:

 

I wanted to take this opportunity to say that helping your fellow CV Captain win games on behalf of your team (so that means you too) is becoming harder and harder.  I want this to change.

 

A lot of this is down to lack of knowledge, or lack of CV knowledge to be precise. Those that simply don't play CV's don't understand the micromanagement involved,  the number of tasking they have and expectations  (some unreasonable) some people might have.

 

The last 2 nights I have witnessed some appalling teamwork, i mean really bad.  Now I know this isnt new but IMHO it's getting worse.  So i wanted to give people that don't understand CV's a bit of advise in order to make the CV Captains life easier.  In doing so, It will massively increase the likelihood for you to win the battle.

 

Average  players thoughts

I am a German tier 9 Tank spec Freddy.  I am strong and will smash my way through anything.  The CV player will surely provide me with a fighter as i am not AA spec and have a torp belt of cardboard.

 

Resulting salt

"No support CV, your S***". 

 

CV Players thoughts

I have 1/2 sets of fighters and 3 ships going solo.  I have to spot 3 different caps and attempt to knock out the first DD in time.  I need to support that DD going into the cap and stop him form being spotted.  I need to position my fighters in order to support the fleet as a whole in case of a strike.  I need to recce the enemy team enough for the team to see what they are doing.  I need to spot the torps coming towards the BB from smoke.  I need to engage the enemy fighters going for my own strike.  I need to shot down and strafe the enemy fighters to keep the DD safe. 

 

A CV player (good ones) will always try and support you the best they can.  But you have to understand that there is a pecking order and you might not even be in the top 10.  Here are a few things you can do to help matters.

 

1) Pair up.  If you believe that you have poor AA or not enough to stop at least half the enemy planes then find a AA buddy.  That doesn't mean following him around the whole game, but always look for locations that have a friendly AA ship in the general area. Enough to think if that guy pops his defensive AA, the CV player is gonna have a hard time trying to hit you.  

 

2) Enemy AA ships.  Take a look (or use the mini map) to see what AA ships the enemy has in on front of you.  If you are a DD player and are screaming for friendly fighter to help cap but on the other side of the HIll is a Mino and Des, then the likelihood of the CV player sending fighters are SLIM TO NONE.  Don't throw salt at him just because he doesn't have invulnerable planes. Planes last for a matter of seconds in heavy AA if your lucky.  Would you push into a Moskva and Des with radar? Then don't expect the CV player to send planes in.

 

3) Positioning.  You are a sneaky DD and are behind enemy lines.  You are doing well and then suddenly you get spotted by the CV player :fish_nerv:.You scream for friendly fighters as your a Shimmy with a rifle on board.  Guess what? A CV captain will not send his fighters though enemy ships (most of which have good AA) in order to support your death wish.  Factoring the time to takes to get there, the likelihood that when they do they will make a difference (those that are left) and knowing the enemy will now be all over you, isnt going to go in your favour regarding support.  Look at the ships the CV player has to get though first and the time it will take.  3/4 times sending plane behind enemy line results in a very few or none returning.  

 

Unless you are a AA spec Fletcher, KIDD or DD with good AA (defensive) then come to peace with the nightmare you might now face.  If your on the flank and not surrounded by AA ships then completely fine and we/I will always bat enemy planes off you.  But make the decision easy for us by not putting yourself in crap positions we cant help you with.

 

4) Torp dodge.  Don't make the enemy CV captains life easy.   The amount of people i see sailing in a straight line and getting whacked by torps in simply astounding.  Break this down:

 

  • DD/CA captain both the hardest and easiest to hit.  One of the best times to sink a DD is when he starts slowing down in order to smoke.  DONT.  A good CV player can judge the time it takes for you to stop and when you do will receive a wall of torps.  Keep moving, even when in smoke.  Create a smoke circle but whatever you do don't just slow down and stop. 

 

  • BB Captains Always turn into the torps and not away from them.  I'm sure i don't need to tell you why but in case it's about torp arming and surface area :Smile_great:

 

5) Manuel AA knowledge. You receive a AA buff when you select a certain group of planes right?  So knowledge of section is paramount.  If you are in a Bismarck and you have a set of Enterprise torp planes and a set of AP bombers coming your way then concentrating on the Bombers will SAVE YOUR LIFE.  I know that a AA spec Bis can destroy both but if your anrt then know/learn what planes are going to do the most damage to you.  Just one 1 set of AP bombs can blow up a Bis just like that or strip 1/2 of your health, but the spread on the Enterprise torps can only hit so many (if you adopt point 4, 2 if hes lucky) 

 

A Fletcher is the opposite and should target the Torps as AP bombs do squat. So know what planes to target first.

 

6) Helping win fighter engagements. Fighters cant hurt BB's right? So why would you care about the dog fight that is going on near/above your head?  Well simply selecting the enemy fighters will apply the Buff and help your friendly CV win what could be a close air battle.  Those remaining planes could then be used to at least mess up the drop that will be heading for your team, or spot a incoming DD.  Help as much as you can lads.  Even sail into AA range to help those fighters out if it doesn't put you in a bad position. 

 

A good CV play will always try to use your AA anyway and wont get caught in a fighter battle they cant win, but some people are still learning or have no choice, so give them a helping hand. 

 

7) Concentrate fire.  One of the many jobs of a CV captain is spot and hopefully kill the enemy DD's.  DD's are IMHO the most important ship in the game so we/you need them dead, pronto.  If a CV player is spotting a DD or low concealment ship and has announced it on the F5 then focus fire.  It's the best example of the selfish comment a CV captain can make as he knows that those planes will start to fall out of the sky. But he does it for the good of the team.  If you don't use that opportunity then the CV captain might not bother the remainder of the game.  He's not gonna lose planes for nothing.  Chaps, you really don't want to make a selfish CV captain.  

 

8) Priority targets. An action has a reaction right? I have a Zao and a mino in front of me and one is going to die :cap_rambo:.  Now the Mino is just bouncing shells off my bow deck but the zao is burning me alive.  Your instinct is to kill the Zao but think about it.  That 8.4 km AA mino of death might be a means to an end.  If i wipe him from the face of the earth the CV player has a single lovely Zao to drop on. A target not even factored as it was surrounded by the Mino/Des AA.  You will also keep DD players happy as another Radar ship as met it's end.

 

If you kill a AA heavy Ship you will increase the likelihood for the CV player to help the team and in turn you.  This sounds so simple right but the amount of people i see just tunnel vision on a certain ship and not seeing the bigger picture is shocking.   Having a half decent CV captain on your team against no AA heavy ships on the enemy team will 3/4 win you the game.  Other 1/4 is the enemy CV captains but he has heavy AA still to deal with.

 

Summary

Nothing is more frustrating (in a good way) that seeing the enemy fleet support eachother, play as a team and doing all the right anti CV things.  Whilst on your team they are moving around like depressed lemmings, getting killed one by one, and throwing buckets of salt at the CV player for no good reason.  I want both teams to be equally as good as it makes the game more interesting and less one sided. I don't care if it makes the enemy CV captains life a misery, but it will make 2 of them, not 1 :Smile_great:.  Playing your heart out in a CV whilst watching your own team throw it away is tiring and saps the CV life out of you.  

 

I hope this helps. 

 

P.S You can probably forget all of this when the CV re-work comes, but lets go out with a bang ay. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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(9) You are playing your T10 CV and a strike/snipe is coming in after two minutes? At least use your def AA and maybe notice the PLANE visible planes flying on the map border, spotted by your team mates and react in time.

(10) Your base is being capped and there's a Kutuzov in shooting distance? Spot those ships in base so that the Kutuzov doesn't have to get murdered in order to reset those guys. Ah, well - whatever.

(11) Your performance with CV in random games is ok-ish? Goood job! But don't ever play your CVs in ranked.

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Well written piece although you will be pleased to know I already apply everything you said.

 

Of course, it could all be rendered moot if you didn't bring a frigging CV into my match in the first place..... grrrrr.

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20 minutes ago, Redcap375 said:

One of the best times to sink a DD is when he starts slowing down in order to smoke.  DONT.  A good CV player can judge the time it takes for you to stop and when you do will receive a wall of torps.  Keep moving, even when in smoke.  Create a smoke circle but whatever you do don't just slow down and stop.

Actualy I have a question on this.

As good cv players are rare as they go I am not sure if one of my emergencyplans is actualy that smart as I meet to many cv captains whose drops I can just dodge effortlessly.

 

When I realize the enemy cv is of the better kind and I can't dodge his droppatters for much longer nor reach friendly AA/fighters in time i try a certain trick.

What I do is I try to fool the enemy cv in thinking I am a noob (maybe this what I do is noobish i dunno but it works sometimes). I do exactly as you wrote above BUT as soon as the smoke covers me and I go dark I slam the speedwheel on full forward and activate speedboost to avoid the incoming Torpedos that the cv player (hopefully) aimed at an expected standing target.

 

Does that actualy work on good cv captains or am I a fool just because it worked sometimes but only because the enemy cv messed up?

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1 hour ago, Miessa3 said:

Actualy I have a question on this.

As good cv players are rare as they go I am not sure if one of my emergencyplans is actualy that smart as I meet to many cv captains whose drops I can just dodge effortlessly.

 

When I realize the enemy cv is of the better kind and I can't dodge his droppatters for much longer nor reach friendly AA/fighters in time i try a certain trick.

What I do is I try to fool the enemy cv in thinking I am a noob (maybe this what I do is noobish i dunno but it works sometimes). I do exactly as you wrote above BUT as soon as the smoke covers me and I go dark I slam the speedwheel on full forward and activate speedboost to avoid the incoming Torpedos that the cv player (hopefully) aimed at an expected standing target.

 

Does that actualy work on good cv captains or am I a fool just because it worked sometimes but only because the enemy cv messed up?

if the enemy cv player knows what he is doing probably you will still end up eating 2 torps ( and usually it's enough to cripple/sink you), because he has already his tb's engaged ( going yellow on the system) by the time you have disappeared and if he is really good he usually offset the drop pattern (with ign cvs) a little bit to prevent that and to create tighters gaps

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What I always check/look at;

 

-Is my AA a threat to the CV, or is it a threat to me? - this can vary depending on if its a +2 or -2 ship

-Who is the most likely target (based on role, class, likely AA)

-If im a likely target, and the CV is a threat, how can I avoid that (sail close to AA ships etc)

-If I'm not a likely target, and my AA is a threat, how can I use that to cover weaker allies.

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Flavio1997 said:

if the enemy cv player knows what he is doing probably you will still end up eating 2 torps ( and usually it's enough to cripple/sink you), because he has already his tb's engaged ( going yellow on the system) by the time you have disappeared and if he is really good he usually offset the drop pattern (with ign cvs) a little bit to prevent that and to create tighters gaps

so i should accelerate eralier?

Or don't bother stopping at all and still eat at least one?

The thing is I only use this in situations in which getting hit by one is already very likely.

So I wonder.... Is that an acceptable "trick"?

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22 minutes ago, Miessa3 said:

so i should accelerate eralier?

Or don't bother stopping at all and still eat at least one?

The thing is I only use this in situations in which getting hit by one is already very likely.

So I wonder.... Is that an acceptable "trick"?

it's not bad

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Vor 3 Stunden, Redcap375 sagte:

8) Priority targets. An action has a reaction right? I have a Zao and a mino in front of me and one is going to die :cap_rambo:.  Now the Mino is just bouncing shells off my bow deck but the zao is burning me alive.  Your instinct is to kill the Zao but think about it.  That 8.4 km AA mino of death might be a means to an end.  If i wipe him from the face of the earth the CV player has a single lovely Zao to drop on. A target not even factored as it was surrounded by the Mino/Des AA.  You will also keep DD players happy as another Radar ship as met it's end.

Mino has 8.6km, not 8.4 ;)

And Zao AA can be even more devastating than Mino, so that's not the best example ^^

 

Vor 3 Stunden, Miessa3 sagte:

Actualy I have a question on this.

As good cv players are rare as they go I am not sure if one of my emergencyplans is actualy that smart as I meet to many cv captains whose drops I can just dodge effortlessly.

 

When I realize the enemy cv is of the better kind and I can't dodge his droppatters for much longer nor reach friendly AA/fighters in time i try a certain trick.

What I do is I try to fool the enemy cv in thinking I am a noob (maybe this what I do is noobish i dunno but it works sometimes). I do exactly as you wrote above BUT as soon as the smoke covers me and I go dark I slam the speedwheel on full forward and activate speedboost to avoid the incoming Torpedos that the cv player (hopefully) aimed at an expected standing target.

 

Does that actualy work on good cv captains or am I a fool just because it worked sometimes but only because the enemy cv messed up?

Depends on many factors. Distance to the TBs, angle, luck, ...

It can work with good and bad CVs, but it can fail against both as well.

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Read

Adapt

Do it

 

The ammount of DDs i kill because they start smoking and stop after being plane spotted is growing every week. I take the kills but thats simply not fair for the rest of their team.

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10 hours ago, Redcap375 said:

4) Torp dodge.  Don't make the enemy CV captains life easy.   The amount of people i see sailing in a straight line and getting whacked by torps in simply astounding.  Break this down:

Tier 5 version

 

CAs, turn to face torp bombers  thus making the CVs life hard by dying to citadels fired from the ships you just gave your broadside too before the can kill you ..that will teach him to pick on you !!!

 

BBs, turn to face torp bombers  thus making the CVs life hard by making them click again to attack from 90+ degrees further around, repeat until TBs out circle and sink your 20 knot barge.....that will teach him to pick on you !!!

 

:Smile_hiding:

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Well, you could always petition wargaming to make a game especially for you then you could ignore all those pesky teammates.

 

Actually, you could have CV Vs Arty from wot. Wow just think of all the happy ship players not having to deal with an OP enemy you can't damage, and all the little tankers will be better off without the sky cancer too.

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11 hours ago, Redcap375 said:

BB Captains Always turn into the torps and not away from them.

OK, I know I'm going to be "crucified" here. But I actually love your post OP. Just one slight tiny fify: Indeed turn into the torp plane squad, UNLESS you somehow turned out of them (that's happining very often when you need to angle from incoming): then keep committing turning out. Don't alter your turn! Yes: it'll mean eating one more torp but that's better than taking the whole drop. And you'll be giving broadside again from the threat that was present in the first place. Simple math: 1 extra torp is better than taking the whole drop AND being full BS at the gunships.

 

Now I won't repeat my opinion about CV's and the players here again. I have 1 cry from the heart to rudimentary competent CV players: your biggest allies are the DD's. Would you please, please sacrifice that 1 bomber/ torpedo squad over giving away the position of your DD in a futile attempt to pull them back from the red fighters straight over the head of the DD??? They'll be strafed anyway because they won't make it back to your ship (and by some miracle: it'll give your position away as well). I've lost so many matches because of this! Taking position to scout/ harass or even obliterate an incoming threat on the edge of the knife, only to be given away by a CV player who didn't want to lose his/ her pixel planes and thus giving the whole match away.

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1 hour ago, Ataxia said:

Wow just think of all the happy ship players not having to deal with an OP enemy you can't damage, and all the little tankers will be better off without the sky cancer too.

 

Wow, yeah, CVs sure are oh so difficult to deal with. I can only wipe all planes from a concentrated strike of two CVs at the same time by pushing one button.

Spoiler

EVfpU69.jpg

dNVRrIT.jpg

CVs so op pls nerf.

 

How about you just quit the game? Think of all the potential teammates that won't have to deal with your shoddy play in the future.

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As a CV player, big +1 to that.

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22 hours ago, aboomination said:

Goood job! But don't ever play your CVs in ranked.

biggining to think if i should play them at all lol

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1 minute ago, Ysterpyp said:

biggining to think if i should play them at all lol

Ranked battles or CVs? Or both?

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4 minutes ago, aboomination said:

Ranked battles or CVs? Or both?

Both , because facing t10 cv divisions sucks A55

 

Hiryu is still fun, less cv divisions. 

 

And never in ranked because im not good enough in them

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15 minutes ago, Ysterpyp said:

Hiryu is still fun, less cv divisions. 

Duno last 5 games in T7 CV was agains Saipan-faceroll divisions 4 in the same night(even waited a hour after the 3rd game,but nope...),next morning,first game yeah Saipan-Flint-Atlanta...

Not played my T7 CV's since then,got better things to do than that crap.

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21 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Mino has 8.6km, not 8.4 ;)

And Zao AA can be even more devastating than Mino, so that's not the best example ^^

 

Wouldn't touch the Mino with a barge poll in a CV if i had a choice.  The Zao can be AA hell like any tier 10 cruiser, but regarding the Zao, 9/10 it isn't because of they way people generally Spec it.

 

Stole this from another post but everyone said it was accurate just to show the AA potential when spec: it's crazy.  If it's wrong then please comment.

 

T10 Cruisers

Ship Base DPS*Range (DPS*km) MAA DPS*Range (DPS*km) MAA Benefit (%)
Minotaur 3125 3621 16%
Des Moines 2877 3195 11%
Hindenburg 2299 2718 18%
Henri IV 1830 2173 19%
Zao 1677 2114 26%
Moskva 1592 2038 28%

 

Hardly anyone has MAA on Zao's and 1/2 run Hydro. Zao's turn slower, wider, longer and are a bigger target. The Mino is the opposite and turns on a penny. Plus you will spend more time in a Mino AA then a Zao's by a fair margin. 

 

Not much about stats and the like and i'm sure you will prove me wrong mate (in a good way) but IMHO Mino no, Zao alot better. 

 

It is 8.6 Km :Smile_hiding:I should know as it's how I spec it, shame on me.

 

Plus that lovely MMA is situated in those duel purpose main guns on the Mino. A lot harder to break than the squishy AA/secondary mounts on the zao that melt with every HE salvo.

 

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Thanks OP for this great post/thread! As CV-play is another game (mode) I think many (like myself) tried some low tier CV and then stopped. At hi tiers this means problems but now I have some advice on strategies.

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Vor 2 Stunden, Redcap375 sagte:

Not much about stats and the like and i'm sure you will prove me wrong mate (in a good way) but IMHO Mino no, Zao alot better. 

Depends if these stats are with Def-AA.

 

But there is no absolute answer to this question.

There are Minotaurs as well who don't spec for AA.

Both ships can be devastating, but I would usually prefer to attack the ship without Def-AA as it means I can at least do some damage before losing all my planes.

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