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havaduck

Lets revisit the blullcrap that is: "WG cant/wont change premiums" featuring: Danks.

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First off, this is happening not in *edited*but in danks.

 

Reference:

Spoiler

 

 

Now one thing straight ahead of everything else: This isnt set in stone, but its straight from WG without anybody holding a gun to their head aka: Thats what they think/hope they can get away with.

 

A quick summary by me:

 

- Contradiction after contradiction. WG truly thinks (and if the WoWs playerbase is any indication: they are right!) their customers are utter idiots.

- You can keep the thing you have bought; but it will be soon actually NOT the think you have bought previously.

- You can pay WG   EXTRA   (oh I love that one, I think that will probably be the thing that might actually end up screwing them because of pissing people off) to trade it for a regular p2w tank. -> btw, rated: TOP LEL!

- The dirty peasants in non p2w machines are even more screwed aka Fire moar/only gold ammo.

- Well everyone not in T10 is screwed anyway, buy MOAR p2w competitive premiums and premium time to keep spamming those high tiers/gold ammo.

 

 

Now you could say: "Hava, you just want to use this to put WGs throat in a noose" ...... and you would be wrong: I god damn love this so much I want to have a deep physical relationship with an solid peace of rope going to the naughty loop-side with some *edited* roundings and turned utter noose. I want to have many many little nooses with that piece of rope to cover the entire company - metaphorically speaking ofc.

 

 

Now back to *edited*, remember the retardedly OP premiums? That everyone knew were retardedly OP from the beginning? And told them? Except WG apparently? Some of which are so retardedly OP even WG couldnt bear the p2w anymore and pulled them? Stuff with preferential MM (aka being downtiered) like Gremy? or Payfast? or double preferential (protected MM AND downtiered) like OP-erat0r?

 

 

I mean dont get me wrong: p2w getting screwed over, WG still facing a (lesser) shitstorm (than they actually deserve) - thats all good and well ........ but what about *edited*? What happened to the "We/WG cant  change   nerf (because buffing is fine ofc, always needed and completely balanced) premiums" because ......? Hmmmm? How about you start cracking down on König Sealcluber?,  Payfast?, OP-erat0r? p2w-zov? and similar? Hell start with the p2w stuf _I_ own if you like .......

 

 

 

@Sub_Octavian or if he isnt unavailable we might ask our EU representatives like @MrConway , @Tuccy to get word on: when we can expect changes on premiums so broken even WG doesnt sell them - except when they do via gambling/aka christmas-crates - because the weak excuse "Its a premium" has been devalidated by the very same company in a truly glorious fashion. (It was BS anyway, but its interesting to see it cast aside in a whim when they see fit).

 

 

 

 

 

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I wanted to post about this here, too.

 

Claus Kellerman says it all:

 

 

 

Mods, please keep this here. It is relevant to gameplay. It is also relevant to the game as whatever happens with regards to premium tankls in WoT may end up setting a precedent for changes to WoWs.

 

 

@Sub_Octavian, @MrConway , @Tuccy

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Being a KV-5 veteran with almost 1400 battles in that tank alone I am somewhat torn about the upcomming changes (even when not playing much for some years already). Rebalancing of old premiums is a must as long as powercreep is real and should happen in ships too. However I am not quite convinced the way Wargaming did it.

 

With PMM (preferential matchmaking) gone I fear even the upgraded gun and front armor will not be enough to mess with the big guys and due to the side and back armor nerfs you even lose your ability to bully mutiple smaller ones (you can bully single(d) smaller enemies even better though).

 

Also even when I am not a friend of the pay 2k gold to upgrade/exchange your premium option please be aware that a KV-5 is and was the cheapest tier VIII premium and by a large margin. So the upgrade option is more fair then many might think (7500 gold KV-5 +2000 gold upgrade <<< 11500 gold for a brand new Löwe).

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1 minute ago, principat121 said:

What is this hard-to-understand fuss about?

Watch the Claus Kellerman video as it explains most of it. Whilst this thread concerns everyone playing games by the WG empire, the changes only affect World of Tanks for the moment.

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2 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

5b059bd4e90b7_wargamingnorefunds.thumb.jpg.dfe58d7d8aa1b4df60006b588934712c.jpg

 

It's worse than that. You buy a premium 'item' and then they change it so badly it no longer resembles the 'item' you purchased and then they say, "no refunds!"

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Maybe try to understand, that you do not buy an item, but merely a licence. But I do not think, that you will understand.

 

edit: your predictable reaction prove me right

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10 minutes ago, TigerMoth said:

Watch the Claus Kellerman video as it explains most of it.

The thing is, that PMM was introduced for tanks that for one or another reason could not compete in a ±2 tier environment. It was NOT AT ALL introduced to grant players more top tier matches. So all the rambling of Kellerman about matchmaking is more or less in vain.

 

PMM is to protect your tank from tanks it can not beat, not to highten your chances of being top tier.

 

Of course over time people like Kellerman "abused" the available PMM tanks as "granted top tier tanks" as WG seems to be unable to program a decent matchmaker for quite some years (and not only in tanks), which also is a large part of the reason for this recent disturbance.

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WoWs and WoT are developed by different teams. What one team decides to do does not necessarily reflect a change in policy for the other.

 

I'd hold off on any hopes/fears until it actually happens to us over at WoWs as well.

And to be fair they've done an okay job so far offering refunds when premium ships were affected by severe global changes. Think the only time when they didn't was when stealth firing was removed.

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havaduck relax, just because WoT get's a change dosent mean Wows is auto getting the same treatment. :Smile_honoring:

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Didn't watch the whole vid. Actually I didn't know PMM was an issue in wows at all. If I dig deep into my second neuron I think I remember something about it was said regarding low tier premium ships (t5 and below) having tier protection. But that was, again IIRC, in the time +/-3 was tolerated by MM. So my Imp OP-rator (I LOVE the way OP puts that) couldn't face T7. I did however had plenty of 6 matches in it (before the "global PMM" for T1-4 came in).

Nowadays I have the feeling (can't back it up with numbers) all premiums are treated equally in MM as silvers. The "infamous feeling" of 75-25% (bottom-toptier%) all the board. And I don't mind being the bottom tier: all the more xp and credit income for me. Especially in the "OP deemed" premiums (Kamikaze (clones), Kutuzov, Belfast etc) I don't have any problem with being bottom tier. Heck IMO if you can't stand your ground playing those ships...

 

In other words: I don't really understand what the fuss is about. I didn't notice any PMM at all (said Nikolai PMM in the Cretaceous era excepted) ever. Keep bringing those T7's to Kamikaze R (except Belfast. That is one of my "mortal enemies" in that thing. Though a cloud torp dev strike is one of the most satisfying things ever!)

 

Edit: I found the hard way my second neuron can't comprehend WOT. Tried and failed in the realm of failing. My retard brain is having enough difficulties here in a two dimension playfield. There are 3 of them. Also drive 100m, get tracked, get blown to kingdom come and back to the garage. And ONE gun?! Yuck!!! Not my glass of milk....

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How mental I'll go over all of this will depend largely on what WG actually end up doing for real - at the moment, it's at the initial proposals stage for one tank (with the idea being that the rest of the pref MM premiums will follow if the KV-5 goes okay).

 

I suspect that there would be much less uproar if WG engendered any trust in their customer base (see, WG, this is what happens when you regularly balls-up your comms etc); if it's done well, this could improve the game significantly by giving a whole load of premiums a new lease of life. *If* it's done well.

 

I have to say though, I'm not entirely convinced by WGs stated motivation for this exercise i.e. improving MM for regular T8s - that sounds rather unlikely, given how few pref MM premiums there are, compared to regular ones, and standard silver T8s...

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At the moment there is no reason for something like this to happen to WoWS, except for some ships falling out of meta because its natural like every other game ever.

 

Looking back through the history of both dev teams, you can clearly see how each team treats their game respectively. This is only one of many reasons why this sort of thing has little chance of actually accruing in this game.

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Alle 5/23/2018 alle 19:16, havaduck ha scritto:

 

First off, this is happening not in *edited* but in danks.

 

Reference:

  Hide contents

 

 

Now one thing straight ahead of everything else: This isnt set in stone, but its straight from WG without anybody holding a gun to their head aka: Thats what they think/hope they can get away with.

 

A quick summary by me:

 

- Contradiction after contradiction. WG truly thinks (and if the WoWs playerbase is any indication: they are right!) their customers are utter idiots.

- You can keep the thing you have bought; but it will be soon actually NOT the think you have bought previously.

- You can pay WG   EXTRA   (oh I love that one, I think that will probably be the thing that might actually end up screwing them because of pissing people off) to trade it for a regular p2w tank. -> btw, rated: TOP LEL!

- The dirty peasants in non p2w machines are even more screwed aka Fire moar/only gold ammo.

- Well everyone not in T10 is screwed anyway, buy MOAR p2w competitive premiums and premium time to keep spamming those high tiers/gold ammo.

 

 

Now you could say: "Hava, you just want to use this to put WGs throat in a noose" ...... and you would be wrong: I god damn love this so much I want to have a deep physical relationship with an solid peace of rope going to the naughty loop-side with some *edited* roundings and turned utter noose. I want to have many many little nooses with that piece of rope to cover the entire company - metaphorically speaking ofc.

 

 

Now back to *edited*  , remember the retardedly OP premiums? That everyone knew were retardedly OP from the beginning? And told them? Except WG apparently? Some of which are so retardedly OP even WG couldnt bear the p2w anymore and pulled them? Stuff with preferential MM (aka being downtiered) like Gremy? or Payfast? or double preferential (protected MM AND downtiered) like OP-erat0r?

 

 

I mean dont get me wrong: p2w getting screwed over, WG still facing a (lesser) shitstorm (than they actually deserve) - thats all good and well ........ but what about *edited* ? What happened to the "We/WG cant  change   nerf (because buffing is fine ofc, always needed and completely balanced) premiums" because ......? Hmmmm? How about you start cracking down on König Sealcluber?,  Payfast?, OP-erat0r? p2w-zov? and similar? Hell start with the p2w stuf _I_ own if you like .......

 

 

 

@Sub_Octavian or if he isnt unavailable we might ask our EU representatives like @MrConway , @Tuccy to get word on: when we can expect changes on premiums so broken even WG doesnt sell them - except when they do via gambling/aka christmas-crates - because the weak excuse "Its a premium" has been devalidated by the very same company in a truly glorious fashion. (It was BS anyway, but its interesting to see it cast aside in a whim when they see fit).

 

 

 

 

 

when you buy car and after 3 years than took away your horsepower and forth wheel and you agree to that than i will agree to change something i/we payed for that....till then [edited]of from my property dirty peasant or i will use shot gun

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1 minute ago, 15JG52Adler said:

when you buy car and after 3 years than took away your horsepower and forth wheel and you agree to that than i will agree to change something i/we payed for that....till then [edited]of from my property dirty peasant or i will use shot gun

Thing is, you buy right to use, not ownership. WG main competitor somehow isn't afraid to tinker with premium vehicles, though "minor balancing issues" are usually solving by adjusting battle rating than vehicle itself. In WoWs terms moving ships around tiers can have brutal consequences

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Alle 5/23/2018 alle 19:16, havaduck ha scritto:

 

First off, this is happening not in *edited* but in danks.

 

Reference:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Now one thing straight ahead of everything else: This isnt set in stone, but its straight from WG without anybody holding a gun to their head aka: Thats what they think/hope they can get away with.

 

A quick summary by me:

 

- Contradiction after contradiction. WG truly thinks (and if the WoWs playerbase is any indication: they are right!) their customers are utter idiots.

- You can keep the thing you have bought; but it will be soon actually NOT the think you have bought previously.

- You can pay WG   EXTRA   (oh I love that one, I think that will probably be the thing that might actually end up screwing them because of pissing people off) to trade it for a regular p2w tank. -> btw, rated: TOP LEL!

- The dirty peasants in non p2w machines are even more screwed aka Fire moar/only gold ammo.

- Well everyone not in T10 is screwed anyway, buy MOAR p2w competitive premiums and premium time to keep spamming those high tiers/gold ammo.

 

 

Now you could say: "Hava, you just want to use this to put WGs throat in a noose" ...... and you would be wrong: I god damn love this so much I want to have a deep physical relationship with an solid peace of rope going to the naughty loop-side with some *edited* roundings and turned utter noose. I want to have many many little nooses with that piece of rope to cover the entire company - metaphorically speaking ofc.

 

 

Now back to *edited*, remember the retardedly OP premiums? That everyone knew were retardedly OP from the beginning? And told them? Except WG apparently? Some of which are so retardedly OP even WG couldnt bear the p2w anymore and pulled them? Stuff with preferential MM (aka being downtiered) like Gremy? or Payfast? or double preferential (protected MM AND downtiered) like OP-erat0r?

 

 

I mean dont get me wrong: p2w getting screwed over, WG still facing a (lesser) shitstorm (than they actually deserve) - thats all good and well ........ but what about *edited*? What happened to the "We/WG cant  change   nerf (because buffing is fine ofc, always needed and completely balanced) premiums" because ......? Hmmmm? How about you start cracking down on König Sealcluber?,  Payfast?, OP-erat0r? p2w-zov? and similar? Hell start with the p2w stuf _I_ own if you like .......

 

 

 

@Sub_Octavian or if he isnt unavailable we might ask our EU representatives like @MrConway , @Tuccy to get word on: when we can expect changes on premiums so broken even WG doesnt sell them - except when they do via gambling/aka christmas-crates - because the weak excuse "Its a premium" has been devalidated by the very same company in a truly glorious fashion. (It was BS anyway, but its interesting to see it cast aside in a whim when they see fit).

 

 

 

 

 

Ok so i took a quick look at what you said and a quick look at which of these ships you actually have, and as i thought you dont have any of the OP ships in port so i kinda understand your pesimism. I, on the other hand do have them, well most of them and what i found is that one needs to be a good player to play an OP ship to its best otherwise its just as crap as any other.

 

So in essence youre bittching about good players in good ships which is really pathetic since that player will outplay most in any ship, OP variant just makes it more easy... And what is OP after all?

Saipan?

http://prntscr.com/jlqg5x

 

most cvs bittch about saipan, when actually kaga is performing much better.... Hiryu as a non premium has almost the same stats, hows that?

My point beeing you can make the ship with 200k hp and sigma of 3,0  with lol pens all around, if a tomato player sits in it its dead just as fast as any other....

 

Btw if you wanna comment wot do it on their forum people here dont give a *edited*

 

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1 minute ago, Panocek said:

Thing is, you buy right to use, not ownership. WG main competitor somehow isn't afraid to tinker with premium vehicles, though "minor balancing issues" are usually solving by adjusting battle rating than vehicle itself. In WoWs terms moving ships around tiers can have brutal consequences

no..it is mine....[edited]of from my property you communist 

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I think it rather is "We don't want to change premiums so the customers don't get angry" than "We can't change premium or the customers get angry.".

 

Look into the EULA and stuff you agree to every time you log in to WoWS. You don't buy the ship (as in: WG must not change anything because you bought it) but a licence to use it on your account AND they keep all rights to make changes which they seem fit. Or simply put: Daddy let's you drive with his car but he is still the owner and to keep it running you have to pay 50€ up front. But since daddy is still the owner of the car, he can do whatever changes he deems necessary without you having a word in it. He can upgrade or downgrade the engine, paint it bright pink with glitter on top or pitch black with yellow ralley strips or install offroad wheels although you need it in the city. You can now choose to not use the car anymore if you find it to be insufficient. But that doesn't mean you can get the 50€ refunded which you paid at the beginning.

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2 hours ago, TigerMoth said:

Mods, please keep this here. It is relevant to gameplay. It is also relevant to the game as whatever happens with regards to premium tankls in WoT may end up setting a precedent for changes to WoWs.

 

 

@Sub_Octavian, @MrConway , @Tuccy

Actually, in this particular case, it can't set a precedent for WoWs since we literally don't have preferential MM ships AFAIK.

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3 minutes ago, Tungstonid said:

I think it rather is "We don't want to change premiums so the customers don't get angry" than "We can't change premium or the customers get angry.".

 

Look into the EULA and stuff you agree to every time you log in to WoWS. You don't buy the ship (as in: WG must not change anything because you bought it) but a licence to use it on your account AND they keep all rights to make changes which they seem fit. Or simply put: Daddy let's you drive with his car but he is still the owner and to keep it running you have to pay 50€ up front. But since daddy is still the owner of the car, he can do whatever changes he deems necessary without you having a word in it. He can upgrade or downgrade the engine, paint it bright pink with glitter on top or pitch black with yellow ralley strips or install offroad wheels although you need it in the city. You can now choose to not use the car anymore if you find it to be insufficient. But that doesn't mean you can get the 50€ refunded which you paid at the beginning.

and they lost in cort in wot...so they can type whatever they want, but this is not rental deal/leasing and will be brought down in any cort and thats why they can change but need to give full refund....as they did for Kutuzov and some ships EAVEN THEY DID NOT CHANGE SHIP but mechanic around them

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1 hour ago, principat121 said:

Maybe try to understand, that you do not buy an item, but merely a licence. But I do not think, that you will understand.

 

 

Accepted and concurred. Now understand thats WG that has been hiding behind that argument listed abovein order to avoid tackling their even most disgustingly op p2w stuff. All I ask them to do now, is to do (the lousy version they are capable of) their job as implied by their claimed description as game developers.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ubertron_X said:

PMM is to protect your tank from tanks it can not beat, not to highten your chances of being top tier.

 

Oh yeah, because a Panzer IC needs more protection than the  tanks  seals it meets.  Sounds legit. (I know technically not a PMM tank, just a tank within protected MM so how about:) I also cant wait the _improved/changed/compensated_ E25 dumping all over T5 vehicles.

 

1 hour ago, El2aZeR said:

And to be fair they've done an okay job so far offering refunds when premium ships were affected by severe global changes.

 

Cant remember I have been offered any compensation when they turned my Kamikaze R into p2w without my consent by making it far better than the equal tier silver ship.

 

 

1 hour ago, Major_Damage225 said:

havaduck relax, just because WoT get's a change dosent mean Wows is auto getting the same treatment. :Smile_honoring:

 

Probably but giving WG the crap they deserve can be more fun than actually playing the game. :Smile_trollface:


 

Just to reiterate: I am not on the side of the "usual" pmm buyers and sure as hell not on WGs side.

 

But now that the door is opened: WG thinks a Gnevny is T6-material. Lets accept that for a moment. Gremlin is BETTER and T5 - that does sound a lot like PMM to never have to face T8s, now doesnt it? (on top of just p2w) And thats just the one where the match is so utterly perfect.

 

Remember Mogami? The one fun T8 cruiser? That was deemed op and nerved to hell and gone? Only to have WG introduce p2w-zov which was BETTER without/with a 0 pts captain than a middle-trained Mogami and its captain? And they then buffed it even FUTHER? And gave it 26 mm plating so that (before the advent of IFHE/german HE buff) no 150, 152 or 155 mm HE shell (likes Mogamis) werent even able to penetrate that?

 

I do remember and my opinion/picture is the same as it was back then (although HE is actually kinda usable again with IFHE, but then stealth fire nerf is missing while p2w-zov still has smoke).

 

uwOJMUF.jpg

 

(if you dont get it:)

Spoiler

 

 

 

Now another argument: Screwed MM.

 

Thank god there isnt a class of ridiculously overpowered over buffed ruining MM in this game. ......... wait, there is? How about we give them a year to fix that? ....... wait, that year-deadline passed more than half a year ago? Well how about we erect a nice pyre "in honor" for them?

We might as well add premium CVs when you compare them to their same tier counterparts.

 

 

Last but not least: Ofc WG deserves to monetize their work/game. Hell, even I bought stuff at Christmas (yeah even Christmas for WG, so to say)  and definitely do own p2w myself, the thing is: I am unable to talk about what they deserve because it deviate the discussion towards "uncivilized" grounds real fast and get me equally fast banned. :Smile_trollface:

 

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Just now, 15JG52Adler said:

and they lost in cort in wot...so they can type whatever they want, but this is not rental deal and will be brought down in any cort and thats why they can change but need to give full refund....as they did for Kutuzov and some ships EAVEN THEY DID NOT CHANGE SHIP but mechanic around them

Can you point me to the court cases they supposedly lost?

They can offer a refund but they are not obliged to because all those nice agreements you have to ... agree to state that WG has all rights to change mechanics and ships without your consent. Because you don't own the ships but you are allowed to use them.

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4 minutes ago, Tungstonid said:

Can you point me to the court cases they supposedly lost?

They can offer a refund but they are not obliged to because all those nice agreements you have to ... agree to state that WG has all rights to change mechanics and ships without your consent. Because you don't own the ships but you are allowed to use them.

agreement is brot down once by EU cort....thats why they give refund...you know you can sign slavery agreement but it will be overturn easily.....

 

premium ships deal is pure purchase, not a rental and they can not defend that in any custumers protection laws.

on other hand premium time is classic lease deal.....

 

if you buy lets say 100 flags for free exp bonus and they change it to lets say +1 knot speed....did they rob you in that deal...or you just RENTED that flags?

 

 

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