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EgyptOverseer

Graf Spee - Heal?

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Honest question.

 

Why does a premium T6 cruiser with great armour (in tier and class) and BB guns get a heal?

 

I mean, when they released a T7 premium BB with hydro it lost a heal charge, yet this ship at T6 gets great armour, torpedos, guns, hydro and heal. Seriously?

 

I am honestly questioning why this is the case. Poor RN cruisers get heal because they have paper armour at those tiers, yet this one comes in with ridiculous armour and guns, and it can also get BB survival achievements at T6...

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World of gimmicks. A lot of people presume that balancing is the touchstone for everything, WG have imbalance by design. They want you to see a ship and think "that's OP" because gamer psychology 101 tells them that you may rant and stamp your feet on the forums and swear to never give them any more money, but what you'll actaully do a month later is buy it.

 

Edit: i should also add, that you'll never achieve the "best" ship because after you've grabbed that carrot from the stick, a new and better carrot replaces it. It's why people talk about power creep, but it's a natural consequence of the model. They have to keep you grinding or buying.

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11 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

Honest question.

 

Why does a premium T6 cruiser with great armour (in tier and class) and BB guns get a heal?

 

I mean, when they released a T7 premium BB with hydro it lost a heal charge, yet this ship at T6 gets great armour, torpedos, guns, hydro and heal. Seriously?

 

I am honestly questioning why this is the case. Poor RN cruisers get heal because they have paper armour at those tiers, yet this one comes in with ridiculous armour and guns, and it can also get BB survival achievements at T6...

The same reason that "mini battleship" kept cruiser protection, while "battleship guns" aren't quite battleship guns, unless you count inaccuracy.

 

Besides, 6 guns (3 if you actually want to live longer than 1min) every 20s isn't that powerful as you might think

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28cm aren't really BB guns.

 

And the guns are also not really "ridiculous". They spread like normal BBs and you only have two turrets, thus you will have very hard times to hit your targets.

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5 minutes ago, Panocek said:

The same reason that "mini battleship" kept cruiser protection, while "battleship guns" aren't quite battleship guns, unless you count inaccuracy.

 

Besides, 6 guns (3 if you actually want to live longer than 1min) every 20s isn't that powerful as you might think

Pretty much this.

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And by the way...

...are you really complaining about some kind of "power creep" with the Admiral Graf Spee, when your most played ship is the Giulio Cesare? I mean... really?!

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21 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

Honest question.

 

Why does a premium T6 cruiser with great armour (in tier and class) and BB guns get a heal?

 

I mean, when they released a T7 premium BB with hydro it lost a heal charge, yet this ship at T6 gets great armour, torpedos, guns, hydro and heal. Seriously?

 

I am honestly questioning why this is the case. Poor RN cruisers get heal because they have paper armour at those tiers, yet this one comes in with ridiculous armour and guns, and it can also get BB survival achievements at T6...

In every aspect it's between a BB and a CA - so it gets stuff from both.

This is also true for things like fire duration on the ship - BBs get it at 60s, CAs get it at 30s, Graf Spee has it at 45s.

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That awkward moment the best part of the "well armored mini battleship with a heal" is the torpedo array. :Smile_hiding:

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15 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

Honest question.

 

Why does a premium T6 cruiser with great armour (in tier and class) and BB guns get a heal?

(...)

Because otherwise she would be too weak. GS isn't as well protected as you imply and her guns are few, firing rarely and with underwhelming accuracy. Bigger caliber than cruisers of the tier? Sure. But when you look at the caliber, accuracy, RoF and number of barrels... let me put it this way: go compare GS to things like Fuso and then come tell me that GS has "BB guns".

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Graf Spee is IMO not a particularly strong ship. Got it for free, got bored of it very fast. It doesn't really do anything for me, it can have heal, that doesn't make it OP.

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26 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

Why does a premium T6 cruiser with great armour (in tier and class) and BB guns get a heal?

It sucks so bad it is not funny anymore.6 guns full broadside and look on dispersion.

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Graf's armour is nothing special, it can be citadelled very easily.

 

It has pretty poor gun arcs so you need to show a lot of side to fire 50% of its guns, nice torpedoes, so so AA and the dispersion on its slow reloading guns is bad. Compared to the Guilio it's really weak, in fact it's easy food for a Guilio captain that can aim.

 

If you struggle against the Graf in a Guilio then I'm afraid you need to improve your play considerably.

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37 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

Honest question.

 

Why does a premium T6 cruiser with great armour (in tier and class) and BB guns get a heal?

 

I mean, when they released a T7 premium BB with hydro it lost a heal charge, yet this ship at T6 gets great armour, torpedos, guns, hydro and heal. Seriously?

 

I am honestly questioning why this is the case. Poor RN cruisers get heal because they have paper armour at those tiers, yet this one comes in with ridiculous armour and guns, and it can also get BB survival achievements at T6...

Graf Spee is well-armoured compared to other T6 cruisers, yes. But being better armoured than mostly paper armour ships isn't hard. Graf Spee still hardly bounces BB caliber shells, Graf Spee is a larger target, Graf Spee takes tons of HE damage. The entire survivability edge of the ship is basically down to it having tons of hp and a heal.

 

The guns also might look nicer than they are. 6 guns, every 20 seconds means you can devastate cruisers... maybe. You can potentially citadel BBs. But unless you land those shots in their sides, the GS is just a ship with bad dpm, especially if it ever tries to use HE, where it just outright sucks. This thing is practically the polar opposite of Nürnberg, all survivability, not that much sustained damage output. RN cruisers have better damage output than Graf Spee. Especially against something like DDs. Also, they get smoke...

 

Lastly, Graf Spee has like 28 knots speed. Many BBs in its MM spread are faster than the GS.

 

The ship is decent, but far from OP and it needs that heal to not outright suck with its gun RNG and being fat and slow. It's at its strongest against cruisers, where it can tank AP and where it can hope for citadels and heal after withering the hail of likely HE fired at it. But if you look at MM these days, where only CVs are more sparse than cruisers, I'd rather play the Nürnberg. Ship isn't bad, just at times frustrating.

 

Graf Spee is very fun for operations though.

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Hm, one could get the impression that OP never looked into the details, nor that he ever played Admiral Graf Sp... oh...

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What makes the Spee strong is rather the fact that not all players coming from lowtier, know her. So as long as you dont get overtier'ed there should be enough ppl showing broadside in cruisers. And yes, while the 28cm guns can hurt even BBs (fired at superstructure or the upper belt) the chance to do so is...meh, Dont forget that dispersion happens on turrets, not on guns...so when you fire lets say the front turret and the server rolls a "dispersion event" then all 3 "barrels/guns" go sight seeing. Now campare that and the fact of only two turrets and slow reload with the ususal high RPM cruisers, especially with HE boats...so yes, a graf spee can yolopen 50%+ HP shoot a cruiser...the possibility that all factors(dispersion, RNG on overpen/bounce and the notorious no DMG pen) are in favor for that is low.

Also, any BB shooting it while showing even slight broadside (like while turning away) by by 20-50% HP , why? well as much armor Spee has compared to other T6 cruisers, such as good it will prevent overpens from happening compared to lesser armored "light" cruisers,  you eat alot more "normal pens" with Spee.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, EgyptOverseer said:

Honest question.

 

Why does a premium T6 cruiser with great armour (in tier and class) and BB guns get a heal?

 

I mean, when they released a T7 premium BB with hydro it lost a heal charge, yet this ship at T6 gets great armour, torpedos, guns, hydro and heal. Seriously?

 

I am honestly questioning why this is the case. Poor RN cruisers get heal because they have paper armour at those tiers, yet this one comes in with ridiculous armour and guns, and it can also get BB survival achievements at T6...

Because the ship needs it.

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1 minute ago, ColonelPete said:

Because the ship needs it.

It needs a british BB heal

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52 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

In every aspect it's between a BB and a CA - so it gets stuff from both.

This is also true for things like fire duration on the ship - BBs get it at 60s, CAs get it at 30s, Graf Spee has it at 45s.

Fair enough. But it ends up getting all the consumables from both too.

 

Also, I am just asking why it gets a heal, which at the same tier only RN cruisers get, so everyone hold your pitchforks down if you can't answer a question without attacking the persons that poses it.

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2 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

Fair enough. But it ends up getting all the consumables from both too.

 

Also, I am just asking why it gets a heal, which at the same tier only RN cruisers get, so everyone hold your pitchforks down if you can't answer a question without attacking the persons that poses it.

Because it's actually a fairly weak ship

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5 minutes ago, EgyptOverseer said:

Fair enough. But it ends up getting all the consumables from both too.

 

Also, I am just asking why it gets a heal, which at the same tier only RN cruisers get, so everyone hold your pitchforks down if you can't answer a question without attacking the persons that poses it.

Because she is already mediocre ship with all the gimmicks, without heal you could put her at tier 5, if not 4. But then her AA from 105mm secondaries would be tad over overwhelming, even without DFAA

 

Actually, her AA would fit there, I thought she packed more of the peashooters.

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17 minutes ago, Tungstonid said:

Hm, one could get the impression that OP never looked into the details, nor that he ever played Admiral Graf Sp... oh...

Well, to be fair to OP, you don't need to play the ship to pose a question. Might be they want info before purchasing the ship.

Just now, EgyptOverseer said:

Fair enough. But it ends up getting all the consumables from both too.

 

Also, I am just asking why it gets a heal, which at the same tier only RN cruisers get, so everyone hold your pitchforks down if you can't answer a question without attacking the persons that poses it.

It gets all the consumables, which are Damage Control (every ship gets that and it's inbetween the cruiser damecon and BB damecon, so no quick reload), Repair Party (less charges than a full on BB and not cruiser repair, so citadel damage really hurts), defAA or hydro (like all cruisers, though hydro is German hydro) and a spotter plane or fighter (like the other cruisers). It basically gets one more consumable than a typical German cruiser.

 

Compare that to a Leander, who gets what? Repair, smoke and hydro?

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2 minutes ago, domen3 said:

Because it's actually a fairly weak ship

Pros:

  • Largest health pool of all Tier VI cruisers.
  • Access to the Repair Party (While active, restores a fixed percentage of a ship's hit points each second.) consumable, giving her surprising durability.
  • Good mid-range torpedoes with excellent firing angles.
  • Decent anti-aircraft suite.
  • Largest guns of any cruiser with high penetration and alpha damage.
  • Surprising turret traverse speed.
  • Very high torpedo damage reduction for a cruiser, although this is an extremely situational advantage.
  • Guns can citadel Tier VIII battleships if close enough.
  • Genuinely sturdy ship that can survive against most cruisers it encounters.

 

Cons:

  • Only two turrets of three guns, which means getting all guns on target can leave Spee’s broadside vulnerable to return fire.
  • Torpedo tubes easily knocked out.
  • Second slowest firing cruiser in game (only Furutaka’s stock guns are worse).
  • Slowest of all Tier VI cruisers.
  • Worst accuracy of all Tier VI cruisers.
  • Despite having the largest guns of all cruisers, she has low potential damage per minute due to her rate of fire.
  • Shares the same reload time as Scharnhorst.
  • Fires last for 45 seconds compared to the standard 30 seconds on other cruisers

 

Taken from the wiki page.

 

Still can't understand why the cruiser with the largest health pool gets also a repair party. Not waving my pitchfork asking for a nerf or something (we all know that premiums don't get nerfed). Just genuinely trying to understand the thought process behind giving a heal to a ship that already has the largest health pool in tier and class, as well as the best armour also in tier/class. All other ships seems to have trade offs for their consumables, like the example I gave for the DoY.

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3 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Well, to be fair to OP, you don't need to play the ship to pose a question. Might be they want info before purchasing the ship.

There is a difference between "Hey guys, I want to buy that ship, what are its upsides and downsides" and "Hey guys, Graf Spee is a cruiser with OP armour and guns. Why does it also have heal?", though.

I know, he didn't call it OP but he came pretty close. :Smile_hiding:

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52 minutes ago, BeauNidl3 said:

Graf's armour is nothing special, it can be citadelled very easily.

 

It has pretty poor gun arcs so you need to show a lot of side to fire 50% of its guns, nice torpedoes, so so AA and the dispersion on its slow reloading guns is bad. Compared to the Guilio it's really weak, in fact it's easy food for a Guilio captain that can aim.

 

If you struggle against the Graf in a Guilio then I'm afraid you need to improve your play considerably.

Thanks for stalking me. When did I ever say I struggled against the Graf? You are literally picking a troll comment from a user to then just create a ridiculous statement to try and belittle me. What is your problem, seriously?

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lol... get ur hands off!!!

 

 

one of the best balanced ships imo allaround and king of its niche..... well it sits alone in there, but yeah lol.... it is inbetween the cruisers and bb's of its tier, while not being on- or subpar with them both, but different. no need for any alternation in any way imo, luv it! leave it!

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