The new map "Ocean".....

[Figment]

Honestly leading a zigzagging cruiser is not that hard with a BB at 13-15km range... :/

 

If they're a Pensacola, then yes, it can be an issue. But usualy is not.

[DtXpwnz]

There is no such a map.

[Elgerino]

Honestly leading a zigzagging cruiser is not that hard with a BB at 13-15km range... :/

 

If they're a Pensacola, then yes, it can be an issue. But usualy is not.

 

It's not the leading that's the problem, aiming in this game is easy. The problem is the travel time. Specifically, shell travel time vs rudder shift time, a matchup that goes in the cruisers favour till about 12-13km. Especially for the phoenix with it's tiny profile and the rudder shift time north side of warp 9.5 for a cruiser. But don't push it too far, or else you'll turn into some lizard thing and procreate with your helmsmen.

 

Skill can't make your rounds travel faster and because of that you have to guess where they're going to be when they dodge, not where they're going the moment you fire and that vastly reduces your damage against CA's especially. You can force misses all day erry day and you can choose to deny that if you want, but you won't be a good cruiser player until you accept it and stop pretending that when you're spotted BB's are going to laser you cross-map, because as a primary BB/CA player now and during alpha, I can tell you for a fact that BB's can't do that.

 

It'll get easier once you get CA's, they have more range than the BB has effective range against cruisers.

[Figment]

HellSpunk, on 07 April 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

But don't push it too far, or else you'll turn into some lizard thing and procreate with your helmsmen.

That must have been the worst Star Trek episode ever. Even worse than TOS.

 

 

As I said though, I have no issue leading targets that zig zag up until 15km. I can fairly easily predict the next zig or zag, given their max range, they not wanting to come closer and typically people follow a pattern or find the edge of the map. So there's no need explaining that the targets might zigzag and would be "hard to predict", when most people are obvious and in matches like these where getting too close is suicide and having to skirt around on the outer perimeter of their range means you'll have pretty easy targets.

 

 

Consider volume of fire especially. Once you have three people firing at the same target, chances are someone will hit. And the low armour or low range units will suffer from that first. And then I'm looking at IJN cruisers in particular.

[Elgerino]

That must have been the worst Star Trek episode ever. Even worse than TOS.

 

 

As I said though, I have no issue leading targets that zig zag up until 15km. I can fairly easily predict the next zig or zag, given their max range, they not wanting to come closer and typically people follow a pattern or find the edge of the map. So there's no need explaining that the targets might zigzag and would be "hard to predict", when most people are obvious and in matches like these where getting too close is suicide and having to skirt around on the outer perimeter of their range means you'll have pretty easy targets.

 

 

Consider volume of fire especially. Once you have three people firing at the same target, chances are someone will hit. And the low armour or low range units will suffer from that first. And then I'm looking at IJN cruisers in particular.

 

Most people are obvious but they don't need to be obvious. If they're obvious, is that the game or the player at fault? Make the choice to not be obvious.

 

In no fair game would volume fire not destroy you quickly. Focus fire is going to be one of the most important tactics to learn and it will always be effective. That's why I said if you're targeted first you're unlucky, you wouldn't survive anyway no matter what reasonable changes you push for. 

[Figment]

Game's fault for forcing them in a position I and others will hit them since they have no option not to get in a position where they will be hit. You don't seem to get the argument. :/ I'm not saying incompetent players will be shot and others will not be. I'm saying specific types of cruisers in general are screwed over. Massively.

 

How is a Kuma going to dodge long enough to even get in range? What about an Omaha that meets. Cleveland or two? What about ships without a range upgrade? They don't have the range to stay out of harms way or that battleship sweet zone. You cannot get close enough to win against DPS artillery ships with ships that require you to get within ambush ranges.

 

 

[Elgerino]

Game's fault for forcing them in a position I and others will hit them since they have no option not to get in a position where they will be hit. You don't seem to get the argument. :/ I'm not saying incompetent players will be shot. I'm saying specific types of cruisers in general are screwed over. Massively.

 

How is a Kuma going to dodge long enough to even get in range?

 

 

 

The Kuma's tier equivalent is the Myogi. Enough said really.

 

On the topic of dodging and incompetence, I will simply tell you that you don't think it be like it is, but it do. 

[Figment]

Tier equivalent. Since when are you only going to face ships of your own tier?

 

 

You seem to simplify the problem by ignoring range issues. There are ships with 7.6km range. There are ships that need to get within 4.5km for a torpedo strike that get spotted at 7.8km or sooner depending on who or what is spotting.

 

Many of those units will not be able to deliver much as they completely rely on the element of surprise, or cover to make an approach run. You cannot dodge with those units for long and certainly not when any sort of volume of fire may occur.

 

 

 

 

[Elgerino]

Tier equivalent. Since when are you only going to face ships of your own tier?

 

 

 

In that case, Battleships are the most screwed because they have to fight Clevelands and Des Moines from Myogi up.

 

Anyway, it was like this in WOT CBT as well, 4 tier spread either way just because the testing numbers aren't sufficient for it to be other-wise. When the times comes, it will be changed.

[Figment]

Myogis can currently outwit enemies by smart use of cover and get close enough using cover from islands to get within range of a Fuso. That situation does not occur on Ocean.

 

Provided that many players play and keep playing. But even at one tier difference: An Omaha will still see a Cleveland. It is hard enough as is with one of those when you can use an island. Basically the Omaha would have to try to outsnipe a Cleveland, which is not very likely as two volleys can kill an Omaha. Aoba is not much better.

 

[Phantombeast]

 

You can try something once and still give feedback. If I go to a restaurant and receive horrible customer service and bad food I'm not going to go back there a "couple of dozen" times before giving feedback on the place.

 

I despise this map, I gave reasons as to why I despise this map. Hence feedback.

 

Your turn.

 

Well there is constructive feedback and there is premature opinion. You are entitled to both of them, but only one should get a thread in here, imho.

Besides, this is no restaurant but a beta test.

 

I apologize, if my first post annoyed you. I might have been a little thin-skinned at that moment...

[solinari]

I think the new map is OK. As someone said real battles were fought on open seas or oceans so no probs for realism. 

And i think its the map that REALLY need teamplay need to look at others and care others, If there are any carriers you really need to cover them or they get crippled very fast. 

 

[Baron432]

I think that this map is OK, if:

- both forces are well ballanced (both by ships power and classes)

- the number of ships in a room is not too low (wrong balance/move has too big effect) or too high ("overcrowded")

 

In such a rooms I've seen pretty teamplaying of small "Task Groups", DDs and cruisers surrounding BBs to give/receive the cover and combining their attacks against common targets instinctively. I was expected this map to be a rather big failure, but was ... impressed by how this scenario makes ppl to think about playing their ships together and right!

[2ndaryBattleTank]

Although I've played too few games on Ocean for a definitive judgement, so far I like the map. It seems that in order to do well on it you need to throw much of what you know about playing this game overboard. On this map there is nowhere to hide. You cannot ambush. You will not be able to seek out a 1 v 1 on the most favorable terms. Instead you are part of a larger fleet.

 

You win by using concentration of force and focusing fire. If you go it alone and run into a superior force there is no getting away. So just don't do that. Instead stay together and keep an eye on what the team is doing. 

 

The map obviously does favor long range and gunnery fire over torpedoes. But is that a bad thing? You can equally argue that the cramped maps with all the islands getting in the way massively favor shorter ranged and torpedo heavy ships. It is certainly true that most of the other maps don't work to bring out the best in BBs and some of the more confined areas are absolute death traps to them. That there is also a map that turns this on its head seems only fair.

 

Then again even open waters should offer opportunities to ships that need to get close. Remember, you are not alone, but must wait for opportunities that emerge once the enemy is already distracted by your allies. This requires patience and responding to what the team does as opposed to just doing as you please.

[VonVolks]

Looking forward to playing this, as it's something that the game needed. Naval BB combat should involve open sea at least some of the time

[ciarancummins]

I am looking forward to playing it too. I've had ~10 battles and still no sign yet. Tier 4->6. I think an improvement of the game would be to allow which maps to join (when Open Beta, or fully released). As I do hate some maps, and that should not put me off from playing the game. Some people may not like Ocean either, so allow them to not play it and keep them happy too. I also hope they introduce historical maps like Midway, Coral Sea and Guadalcanal. If the map matched reality and the Task Force was similar, it could make for interesting results and tactics. Please bring in bombarding airfields on islands, very rewarding watching buildings, tanks and planes being blown up!