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FloRead

How important is IFHE for the new US CL line?

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With the upcoming US CL line, how good will IFHE be for all the tiers? Will it be a must have trait for a US CL captain? Or will there be tiers where it's not effective?

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[YARRR]
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Mandatory across all tiers.

How's this even a question?

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[PORT]
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Is the penetration calculation for US CL also based on 1/6 of the gun's caliber?

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[ARYA]
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9 hours ago, FloRead said:

Is the penetration calculation for US CL also based on 1/6 of the gun's caliber?

 

HE shell diameter needed to penetrate armor
Ships Without IFHE With IFHE
Default (armor + 0.5) * 6 (armor + 0.5) * 6 / 1.3
British battleships
German cruisers
German battleships

(armor + 0.5) * 4

(armor + 0.5) * 4 / 1.3

 

 

I

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[ST-EU]
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Cruisers with 152mm guns existed before IFHE and were viable, so IFHE can't be mandatory. It makes you deal more reliable direct damage but cuts your fire chance by 25%. It's a viable trade-off on every other 152mm cruiser in the game, so it is probably worth getting on US as well.

 

Given these ships will be short ranged, I would say CE is mandatory first, IFHE later if you feel you need it. If you're going to need AFT and Manual AA for a full AA build though, then you can't afford it.

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[GURKA]
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Guess the major difference will be with IFHE you will be able to "penetrate" bow, stern and (maybe) upper belt armor of the bbs (and some cruisers), and without, you can't, only fire chance.

So if you go always for super structures, you wouldn't need it. But if superstructure is depleted on HP, well you have to shoot at bow and stern. So it should be better

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7 minutes ago, Pikkozoikum said:

Guess the major difference will be with IFHE you will be able to "penetrate" bow, stern and (maybe) upper belt armor of the bbs (and some cruisers), and without, you can't, only fire chance.

So if you go always for super structures, you wouldn't need it. But if superstructure is depleted on HP, well you have to shoot at bow and stern. So it should be better

Also, some BB decks. Something like Amagi and Izumo have pretty much 32 mm plating all over.

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[BABBY]
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On 17/05/2018 at 8:29 PM, El2aZeR said:

Mandatory across all tiers.

How's this even a question?

Because 6" HE spam from St Louis, Murmansk, Cleveland, Mogami et. al. was good even before IFHE was in the game, and so could still be deemed 'good enough' to prioritise other skills.

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15 minutes ago, StringWitch said:

Because 6" HE spam from St Louis, Murmansk, Cleveland, Mogami et. al. was good even before IFHE was in the game, and so could still be deemed 'good enough' to prioritise other skills.

St. Louis, Murmansk and Cleveland mostly saw enemies with plating less than 32 mm in their weaker parts, so IFHE wasn't necessary as non-IFHE 152 mm guns can pen 25 mm plating already. Mogami had to rely on fire RNG. IFHE boosted Mogami though and helped Cleveland if it meats T8.

 

All new USN CLs will be able to meet T8 ships and higher and while T6 can get away without, T7 should have it and on Cleveland it's about as vital as CE, if you want to hurt BBs without having to hit their superstructure and start fires.

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Actually non-IFHE 152mm can't penetrate 25mm. So no, you need it if you want to do any meaningful damage, period.

152/6 is 25.333mm, but the game rounds down in this case and it becomes 25. And 25mm of penetration can't penetrate 25mm, the game exiges more penetration than the nominal value.

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[UTW]
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Take a Cleveland in training with a stock captain, spawn a bot Cleveland, see for yourself.

 

The other day I had the same situation reversed in FFA. My Cleve against a stock Cleve. Had 25k HP, he had all 30k. I lost a grand total of 5k as he couldn't penetrate my side 25mm armor at all. 

 

Btw, Mogami as a 155mm gunboat gets 25.83mm of base HE penetration, which does actually penetrates 25mm. (25.8 rounds down to 25.5 in the game)

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[JR-IT]
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Is so mandatory that i had to respec my 12 point captain from CE to IFHE, my surviaviability  has gone down a bit, but the damage figures doubled, and now you wreck other Clevelands

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If you check wowsft.com you can see that the HE penetration of a Cleveland without IFHE is 24mm which means it can not penetrate most of the armor ( except the superstructure) of BB's at tier 8+.

With IFHE the penetration is 32mm which allows it to penetrate most of its hull armor, which in turn leads to more chances on starting fires.

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[CATS]
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33 minutes ago, Daisai said:

If you check wowsft.com you can see that the HE penetration of a Cleveland without IFHE is 24mm which means it can not penetrate most of the armor ( except the superstructure) of BB's at tier 8+.

With IFHE the penetration is 32mm which allows it to penetrate most of its hull armor, which in turn leads to more chances on starting fires.

You do not need penetrations to start a fire...

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[W-C]
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1 hour ago, Daisai said:

With IFHE the penetration is 32mm which allows it to penetrate most of its hull armor, which in turn leads to more chances on starting fires.

As @ColonelPete said. Fires is not the issue here - but seeing 7 shatters when you know(!?) if you had IFHE they would be full pens is... 5k alpha damage worth of frustration!:Smile-_tongue:

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[FJAKA]
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On 17. 05. 2018. at 9:20 PM, FloRead said:

With the upcoming US CL line, how good will IFHE be for all the tiers? Will it be a must have trait for a US CL captain? Or will there be tiers where it's not effective?

it is a must....pure dmg increasement

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[ST-EU]
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Just to be Devil's advocate a bit more:

 

I've played 3,500 games, over half of them in cruisers (and a lot IJN) but I've only got Witherer 3 times. One of those times I know was Kutuzov before IFHE, not come close since I took it on that ship. Now with only 9 games in Cleveland I've got Witherer twice already. I know the argument about fires can be repaired etc. and I was basically already persuaded by this thread that IFHE is worth it... But damn those fires! I don't want to lose those fires! :Smile_sad:

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36 minutes ago, VC381 said:

Just to be Devil's advocate a bit more:

 

I've played 3,500 games, over half of them in cruisers (and a lot IJN) but I've only got Witherer 3 times. One of those times I know was Kutuzov before IFHE, not come close since I took it on that ship. Now with only 9 games in Cleveland I've got Witherer twice already. I know the argument about fires can be repaired etc. and I was basically already persuaded by this thread that IFHE is worth it... But damn those fires! I don't want to lose those fires! :Smile_sad:

Fire is completely RNG.

Thus getting a Witherer is RNG.

 

IFHE on 152mm isn't RNG. You do pure damage.

Thus IFHE is superior.

 

Before IFHE, I had whole game with Kutuzov waiting for the dots to finally take off and doing miserable damage in the meantime. With IFHE I didn't even saw the difference while I do constant 3-5k salvoes.

And I got several witherer on Kutuzov... 

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[BAD-B]
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essential. without it you can only rely on superstructure + fires ... with IFHE you can do damage to bow/stern/deck of most T8+ ships ...

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