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Crowarior

Battleship change/rebalance

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In my opinion biggest problem with BBs right now is that because of their armor they are too easy and forgiving to new players and because of random dispersion skilled players are always artificially limited. I think that all classes should have equal or at least similar "skill floor" which is right now clearly not the case. 

 

First step to fix this issue would be to make BBs less RNG dependent and make them more consistent. Right now sniping from max range is not punished enough. Dispersion is still O.K. even at max ranges because of how dispersion works, you can still get few hits if you lead properly. On the other hand, if you are shooting at <8km ranges and doing your job as BB, you still get punished by that wild dispersion often enough for it to be frustrating. If WG increases dispersion at longer ranges to the point where you cant reliably hit a target even with proper lead that would be enough to make sniping BB players to move closer for more consistent damage. As a compensation buff close range accuracy <15km (depending on nation) to make BBs more consisntent at ranges where they should play at.

 

 

Capture.JPG

NOTE: For better understanding of how exactly dispersion works please refer to iChase's video here.

 

Next issue is that battleships are not punished for bad positioning. Since WG removed citadels from US BBs and and added BBs with impossible to hit citadels bad players are not punished for showing broadsides anymore. Adding citadels back to BBs would be a great step in right direction. Another thing that would be great is to make certain nations more vulnerable at certain ranges. So US BBs would be easy to citadel at closer ranges, but at longer ranges their armor scheme would be usefull. Same thing goes for german BBs. They would be more resilient at close ranges but they would actually be vulnerable to long range plunging fire which is not the case right now, they just bouce everything or get standard penetrations.

 

Last thing I would like to see changed is BB mobility. They can keep their speed but change acceleration, decceleration and turret traverse speed. This would make BBs more like a chess piece that has to be carefully positioned for maximum effect, otherwise you should get punished for poor play.

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Crowarior said:

Last thing I would like to see changed is BB mobility. They can keep their speed but change acceleration, decceleration and turret traverse speed. This would make BBs more like a chess piece that has to be carefully positioned for maximum effect, otherwise you should get punished for poor play.

All I can think of is giving bbs side thrusters and have them move at the far border like Rooks in chess.

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There has been a proliferation of BB hate threads in like the past week, all with these grandiose ideas on how to "fix" bb play, and yet here I am seeing the same amount of shitty cruisers, dds and CVs.

 

BBs are not the only ones who hang back and do nothing these days. If anything I prefer to have a cowardly BB than a shitless DD or CA, at least the BB has the chance to hit something from the back of the map.

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1 minute ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

There has been a proliferation of BB hate threads in like the past week, all with these grandiose ideas on how to "fix" bb play, and yet here I am seeing the same amount of shitty cruisers, dds and CVs.

 

BBs are not the only ones who hang back and do nothing these days. If anything I prefer to have a cowardly BB than a shitless DD or CA, at least the BB has the chance to hit something from the back of the map.

Im a BB main...

 

Sorry, I just find current BB gameplay not really fun. It's like KV2 from WoT, RNG dictates how much fun you have instead of you.

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5 minutes ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

There has been a proliferation of BB hate threads in like the past week, all with these grandiose ideas on how to "fix" bb play, and yet here I am seeing the same amount of shitty cruisers, dds and CVs.

You just assumed that I'm shitty cruiser player... so yes, your post does have something to do with my playstyle.

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1 minute ago, Crowarior said:

You just assumed that I'm shitty cruiser player...

 

Reading comprehension is dead.

 

Read that several times more and see where I specifically accused you, specifically, of being a bad cruiser player.

 

I don't believe you are one, but I am beginning to believe you are illiterate and self absorbed.

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lol dude whats your problem? Do you just go around the around the forum dropping insults on people? You probably haven't even read my post so why am I even bothering with you...

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1 minute ago, Crowarior said:

lol dude whats your problem? Do you just go around the around the forum dropping insults on people? You probably haven't even read my post so why am I even bothering with you...

 

I did read your post, and the exact same thing has been suggested before in fact. The problem is that it is a crap idea. Taking a collective dump on dispersion values won't change a damn thing.

 

Your second idea is just plain wrong, because that is exactly how armour works right now. Germans are in fact harder to citadel close up, and much easier to cit from further away. They also have the worst dispersion. They are the epitome of "get close" encouragement, and they still hang at the back of the map.

 

At least, the bad ones do, just like bad CA, and DD players. Which there are just as many of.

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15 minutes ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

There has been a proliferation of BB hate threads in like the past week

 

Perhaps because it's an issue that's 2 years in the making, which WG admitted to, and almost nothing has been done to change it, quite on the contrary even?

It's also not hate to suggest changes to a problematic class that everyone and their mother knows is problematic.
I mean, I've had on two separate occasions people who had never seen the game asked me why I bothered playing a cruiser (in this case, a rather ordinary one without a significant gimmick like RN CLs) when I explained to them why I couldn't get closer than 15km to a battleship.


Even non-players understand the problem of having too many and too powerful BBs.
Even the developers know and acknowledge this.

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7 minutes ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

Germans are in fact harder to citadel close up, and much easier to cit from further away. They also have the worst dispersion. They are the epitome of "get close" encouragement, and they still hang at the back of the map.

It's almost impossible to citadel german BB from any range. I dont think I ever citadeled german broadside BB at >15km. Problem with german BBs and BBs in general is taht no matter how close you get you still get fucked by dispersion. I was proposing a buff to BB accuracy at ranges <10km similarly to cruiser level of accuracy. That would make BBs a lot more consistent at close range and if you saw my MS paint "masterpiece" you would have seen that dispersion is actually best at maximum range no matter what BB you play.

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4 minutes ago, Exocet6951 said:

 

Perhaps because it's an issue that's 2 years in the making, which WG admitted to, and almost nothing has been done to change it, quite on the contrary even?

It's also not hate to suggest changes to a problematic class that everyone and their mother knows is problematic.
I mean, I've had on two separate occasions people who had never seen the game asked me why I bothered playing a cruiser (in this case, a rather ordinary one without a significant gimmick like RN CLs) when I explained to them why I couldn't get closer than 15km to a battleship.


Even non-players understand the problem of having too many and too powerful BBs.
Even the developers know and acknowledge this.

 

Having a problem with how they work is just fine and makes perfect sense. I'm of the mind that all they need to do is put a hard cap on the number of BBs per game, fix AP and raise some cits. WG has made some attempts to "fix" BBs, deepwater torps, AP bombs and Asashio among them, but those were all really shitty ideas.

 

 But this thread, in addition to most of the recent ones are about BB playstyle, or rather lack thereof, and suggests changes to fix that. What I am saying is that no mechanic change will fix bad BB players, no more than a mechanics change would fix bad DDs, CAs, or CVs.

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7 minutes ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

What I am saying is that no mechanic change will fix bad BB players, no more than a mechanics change would fix bad DDs, CAs, or CVs.

At the very least WG can do is make BBs more consistent for good players.

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2 hours ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

What I am saying is that no mechanic change will fix bad BB players, no more than a mechanics change would fix bad DDs, CAs, or CVs.

It would however fix it for the few good BB players. The bad ones would get punished for bad play. Like cruisers, DD's and CV's. If you play bad in one of those classes you tend to get punished hard. Often with instant death. BB's atm can screw up time after time with little to no punishment. Which is why almost every BB player is crap. 

 

I say almost because there are a few good ones out there, but they are rare these days. 

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10 minutes ago, Crowarior said:

At the very least WG can do is make BBs more consistent for good players.

 

You've gone from wanting to nerf them to wanting to buff them.

 

Like I said, all the class really needs is fixed AP, raised cits and worse concealment, plus a cap on their numbers per game like what we got with DDs in the last patch. This won't make border humping 42% shitshows any more likely to push, but it would bring the class in line.

 

Your suggestions are awful in that they make the problem of good BBs being too strong even worse, further punishing cruisers, meanwhile bad ones will still sit in the back and still do nothing. Trying to solve the problem of skill degredation with buffs/nerfs is a dead end, and in that way the problems are unrelated, in that they require different solutions.

 

You want players to stop being bad? ask WG for tutorials, increased credit loss from low base exp, and better rewards for spotting, tanking, etc. Not half-baked throw-crap-at-the-wall class balance.

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12 minutes ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

 

You've gone from wanting to nerf them to wanting to buff them.

 

Like I said, all the class really needs is fixed AP, raised cits and worse concealment, plus a cap on their numbers per game like what we got with DDs in the last patch. This won't make border humping 42% shitshows any more likely to push, but it would bring the class in line.

 

Your suggestions are awful in that they make the problem of good BBs being too strong even worse, further punishing cruisers, meanwhile bad ones will still sit in the back and still do nothing. Trying to solve the problem of skill degredation with buffs/nerfs is a dead end, and in that way the problems are unrelated, in that they require different solutions.

 

You want players to stop being bad? ask WG for tutorials, increased credit loss from low base exp, and better rewards for spotting, tanking, etc. Not half-baked throw-crap-at-the-wall class balance.

I agree that raised citadels are part of the solution. It would punish bad play and make Flanking manuvers more rewarding. I also think they should change the CE captain skill so that the percentage is the same for every class, just like the module. Also the CCs are right about the xp-system needing some rework away from damage farming...

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1 hour ago, Crowarior said:

 RNG dictates how much fun you have instead of you.

This is not true. (Im BB main as well)

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2 hours ago, FishDogFoodShack said:

Germans are in fact harder to citadel close up, and much easier to cit from further away.

 

There are two ways to citadel KM BBs:

1. Shoot at the waterline when said KM BB is broadside and turning towards you. This allows your shells to bypass the turtleback/main belt armor and hit the citadel directly.

2. Shoot through the bow/aft utilizing a small gap between the turtleback and the citadel. Needs a very specific angle and a lot of luck.

 

Distance has nothing to do with it. A broadside sitting still KM BB is impossible to citadel regardless of distance.

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2 hours ago, Crowarior said:

...Last thing I would like to see changed is BB mobility. They can keep their speed but change acceleration, decceleration and turret traverse speed. This would make BBs...

Are you suggesting they be decreased or increased?

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I think your completely wrong, yes from a player and gaming standpoint you want the bb's to tank as it were but from a ship point of view the whole reason nations kept making larger caliber guns was so they could kill the hostile before the hostile got into range.

 

hence in game longer range the higher the tier you climb it makes sense the problem is WG wanted a historically correct game for the most part which kinda means bb's are almost designed to be sitting at max range, even if that does mean they only land 1 in 5 shots. because if the enemy your shooting cant reach you, you will win eventually the whole reason nations kept making larger caliber guns was so they could kill the hostile before the hostile got into range.

 

from a game point of view it kinda sucks because its counter intuitive we are given a ship with the most hp, best armor, great survive ability, with secondary guns that are capable of dealing with destroyers on there own and then we give them guns that have the best range.

 

one set of stats say push in and tank then the gun range says wait a second his guns only have a max range of 20km mine are 23km why not just sit here and take pot shots he cant hit back.

 

the only way to fix it to bb's tank is to reverse the ranges of cruisers and battleships but wg wont do that because of historically correct reasons not to mention it will leave bb's to fight dd's as cruisers will be sitting at max range instead spamming h/e rounds but this can be easily fixed with heavy cruisers and light cruiser split 1 class made to sit at max range 1 made to hunt dd's in fact while i am thinking about it that kinda a fixes the issue hear me out a sec

 

1. swap BB and Cruiser firing ranges around (will naturally force bb's to push to be able to hit back)

2. make heavy cruisers a rapid firing dd nightmare with firing range a little worse than bb's. ( the good armor of the heavy cruiser will allow it to take a hit from a bb)

3. give light cruisers best range but awful dispersion. (long ranged fast firing but all over the place)

leave dd's as they are as for cv's well leave that mess for another day.

 

job done battleships will be forced almost into pushing heavy cruisers with there limited range will be forced to support light cruisers with there non-existent armor can stay and range and spray and pray. and to hell with historically correct.

 

at least that's how i would do it

 

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29 minutes ago, El2aZeR said:

 

There are two ways to citadel KM BBs:

1. Shoot at the waterline when said KM BB is broadside and turning towards you. This allows your shells to bypass the turtleback/main belt armor and hit the citadel directly.

2. Shoot through the bow/aft utilizing a small gap between the turtleback and the citadel. Needs a very specific angle and a lot of luck.

 

Distance has nothing to do with it. A broadside sitting still KM BB is impossible to citadel regardless of distance.

 

I don't know what to tell you guy but literally everything I have read and experienced points towards them being vulnerable to cit hits at longer ranges. And after about 15 minutes of google searching as a result of this post I have to stick to that. As far as I understand at longer ranges if you can pen the belt at a sufficient angle (10-13 degrees?) you have enough vertical angling to go through the turtleback and into the citadel.

 

If you want to prove me wrong with actual numbers you're welcome to it.

 

EDIT: This reddit thread states specifically that it is possible at ranges of 16km and above at least.

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5 minutes ago, Warhawk1984 said:

make heavy cruisers a rapid firing dd nightmare with firing range a little worse than bb's. ( the good armor of the heavy cruiser will allow it to take a hit from a bb)

Heavy cruisers is a designation given to a cruiser based in the caliber of its guns (8”), not the armor :)

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3 hours ago, Crowarior said:

Im a BB main...

 

 RNG dictates how much fun you have instead of you.

 

1 hour ago, ghostbuster_ said:

This is not true. (Im BB main as well)

 

Really?  Sorry, surely there is truth in in what @Crowarior said here!:Smile_amazed:

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