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Rokko1v

which DD line to choose? DD questions

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ahoy ,

so in my many hours i never really touched DDs. always figured the hectic play style isnt for me ... im old.
but i think i wanna give it a try.

i played all DD lines to tier 4 but that really doesnt give an insight since they are all still too similar, pan asia excluded thanks to DW torps.
which i already find infuriating..not being able to torp dds when you contest caps.

so pan asia ..i dont think will be mine.
khaba also not for me. if i wanna dish out 'putinum filled shells of d00m', id play moskva instead.
z-52, also not my thing i think. meh torp range

that leaves me with gearing or shima to work towards, which leaves me with some questions.

are 20km shima torps really as bad as other people make them out to be?
if so, up (down) grading them to mod 3 for +5 knots in speed and loosing a whopping 8km is better?
if the answer is yes, wouldnt then the gearing be the better choice with 16,5km torps?

help me out fellow captains, what am i missing here?

ty
 

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IJN & USN DD lines are interesting.

 

IJN have very strong torps and excellent stealth but the long reload is long and guns are a bit weak.

 

USN is more flexible, able to use both guns and torps.

 

You shouldn't ignore KM DD. Higher tier gameplay is totally different from T2-4. They are also versatile DD with a slighter focus on torps (compared to US DD). They have torps with low damage and ok range, but very fast reload, guns require to be able to switch ammo to get the most of it, but the sonar really helps in DD vs DD fight. The T5 is bad, T6 is a bit weak but rest of the line is rather fun !!

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38 minutes ago, Rokko1v said:

ahoy ,

so in my many hours i never really touched DDs. always figured the hectic play style isnt for me ... im old.

 

US are strong but are basically the definition of hectic. Based on what you said above I would advise against them.

 

IJN can be played quite chilled, strategic and planned yet nevertheless very strong.

 

Not sure about Shima 20km torps, I'm only on the T8s, but it's a good line. The basic problem with the 20km Shima torps as I understand it is they are very easily spotted and hence easily dodged. I suppose you could compromise with Torpedo Acceleration for 16km/67 knots but as I said, not an expert.

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24 minutes ago, Rokko1v said:

ahoy ,

so in my many hours i never really touched DDs. always figured the hectic play style isnt for me ... im old.
but i think i wanna give it a try.

i played all DD lines to tier 4 but that really doesnt give an insight since they are all still too similar, pan asia excluded thanks to DW torps.
which i already find infuriating..not being able to torp dds when you contest caps.

so pan asia ..i dont think will be mine.
khaba also not for me. if i wanna dish out 'putinum filled shells of d00m', id play moskva instead.
z-52, also not my thing i think. meh torp range

that leaves me with gearing or shima to work towards, which leaves me with some questions.

are 20km shima torps really as bad as other people make them out to be?
if so, up (down) grading them to mod 3 for +5 knots in speed and loosing a whopping 8km is better?
if the answer is yes, wouldnt then the gearing be the better choice with 16,5km torps?

help me out fellow captains, what am i missing here?

ty
 

 

I cant play DD's to save my life mate and is by-far my worst line.  There is something that just don't click with them and from the very start of the battle I feel like a fish out of water.

 

But started to play them more because why not ay?:Smile_teethhappy:

 

Choose The US DD line.  They are the most forgiving and user friendly IMHO. Good guns and good torps. I was pleasantly surprised with the ships and my Winrate and damage/XP in some of them (like the Nicholas) and is far better than I ever expected.  Still not great like some players I know and Div with (By far) but good for my standards.  

 

Got to the Kiev (pre line change) on the Russian line but it didn't teach me how to really play DD's. Their like corvettes with the concealment to match.  They teach you little regarding actual DD play i found. 

 

Cant go wrong with the US DD line.  You can put up a good scrap with any DD you come into contact with, invis sink BBs and give Cruisers a run for their money. :Smile_great:

 

IMHO.  Alot better DD players out there so take my advise with a pinch of salt.

 

 

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On 15.05.2018 г. at 11:51 AM, VC381 said:

 

 The basic problem with the 20km Shima torps as I understand it is they are very easily spotted and hence easily dodged. I suppose you could compromise with Torpedo Acceleration for 16km/67 knots but as I said, not an expert.


oh, i didnt think of this.thanks
dont buy the torp upgrades,stay with 20km but use the captains torp acceleration perk.

 

On 15.05.2018 г. at 11:54 AM, Redcap375 said:

 

Choose The US DD line.  They are the most forgiving and user friendly IMHO. Good guns and good torps. I was pleasantly surprised with the ships and my Winrate and damage/XP in some of them (like the Nicholas) and is far better than I ever expected.  Still not great like some players I know and Div with (By far) but good for my standards.  

 

 

Cant go wrong with the US DD line.

 

 


how do you feel about the US DD torp range / torp performance?
tier 1-9 seems rather short range (something i dislike) in comparison with other lines but then with a sudden big! range increase on tier X

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3 minutes ago, Rokko1v said:


how do you feel about the US DD torp range / torp performance?
tier 1-9 seems rather short range (something i dislike) in comparison with other lines but then with a sudden big! range increase on tier X

 

They are situational (ambush style / denial) up to Fletcher who in my opinion is the best torpedo boat (and overall best DD) in the game :)

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4 minutes ago, Rokko1v said:


how do you feel about the US DD torp range / torp performance?
tier 1-9 seems rather short range (something i dislike) in comparison with other lines but then with a sudden big! range increase on tier X

Usually, when it comes to torps, there are a few factors that seem to be more interesting than pure range, and that would be stealt firing window, speed and reaction time for example. It wouldn't matter much if you only had 4km torps in case you have in theory a torpedo boat with 2km concealment. As such, USN torpedoes become viable far earlier, certainly on the Benson - can't quite remember for the Mahan.

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13 minutes ago, Rokko1v said:

how do you feel about the US DD torp range / torp performance?
tier 1-9 seems rather short range (something i dislike) in comparison with other lines but then with a sudden big! range increase on tier X

I'm not familiar with higher tier game-play, but rather than just look at 'torp range' (and reaction times etc) you probably want to consider torp range relative to your concealment when choosing your 'ideal' line? 

 

Yes, you have to be wary of radar and the likes, but DD's have the best concealment for a reason. And the further away you launch your torps, the more opportunity the enemy team has of spotting them (unspotted DD's, planes etc), and the chances are much higher that your could inadvertently team-kill!

 

Just my 2 cents :Smile_coin:

 

edit: spent so long writing this @AkosJaccik ninja'd me:Smile-_tongue:

Edited by anonym_2hneAFaIyP4T
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IMHO the fact of the matter is that they are all really usable and you can fire them off well within your Concealment range.  What else do you really need?  Longer the range, the more chance you will miss in my books. 

 

If torp range is the biggest factor then pick the IJN line.  They are mostly torp boats. But if you want an all round DD then i would say the US line is better.

 

I bump into a IJN DD tier for tier and i'm nearly always going to be the one that comes back out alive, that's a big factor for me.  Alot better AA and when spec is very nasty.  Great if Div with a CV player.  Can see the Russian DD first so keep distance and let the team take care of him half the time and spot him up, if not always a good scrap :cap_rambo: 

 

Like i said that just my limited experience so far, but happy with my choice. Go with what style you wanna play and have fun with.  If torps flick your switch then IJN all the way.  German DD's as far as i know take experience and time to get used to (so i've heard from my Clan mates).

 

Can see me loving the Fletcher and that my main goal from the start.

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As stated in above, I'd recommend for starters the US and IJN DDs. You'd get the points of gunboats and torpboats at once. When you reach tier lets say 8, then you should have some kind of impression of what you value in DDs ; Concealment, torps, guns, reload times of guns & torps, knifefighting abilities ect. After that you could decide which way to improve / further grind that suits your purpose.

 

PA DDs are very strong IMO and if you like the US DDs then they will be familiar to you and thus effective. If you feel like you are missing some gizmos, they have option for radar. If that will not suit for you, KM DDs have hydro and that is extremely effective when used correctly.

 

RU DDs are mainly gunboats, there are "ofc" exceptions. These are the most difficult ones to be played effectively. Ognevoi is IMO the best of them all, tho I kinda like the Kiev (I know, I'm a masochist) also. Ogne is kinda a "bad" combination of US & IJN DDs ; It has longer range torps, but slow. It has accurate guns, but less of them. Still, it will perform very well if not pushed too hard.

 

I'd start anyway from US and IJN, at the same time. They will teach you virtually everything you need to learn regarding DDs, their mechanics and their capabilities.

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I would recommend the USN DD line. Only because of their versatility. USN DD's are for the most part considered "hybrids" aka both torp and gunboats. That makes you much more flexible than with the IJN DD line which for the most part is considered "torpedo boats". 

If you intend to go to T10 that is. At lower tier you struggle with torp range, but remember that you are the "top dog" when it comes to DD fights for the most part. So at low tier you bully other DD's with your guns, at high tier you bully DD's, Cruisers, BB's and CV's. (Yes you can make CV's cry aswell if you spec for it). :Smile_honoring:

 

 

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2 hours ago, Rokko1v said:

are 20km shima torps really as bad as other people make them out to be?

Yes.

 

2 hours ago, Rokko1v said:

if so, up (down) grading them to mod 3 for +5 knots in speed and loosing a whopping 8km is better?

Yes.

The issue is not just with the speed, you see, but with how easy they are to spot. The 20 km torps are spotted so early that you'll rarely score any hits at all - and the hits you can reliably score rely on torps being so packed together that it's almost impossible to slip past them - but that only works on short range, pretty much nullifying the one advantage the 20km torps have.

Shima has two viable torp options:

 - 12km torps are usable and have the range to remain versatile; they also hit really hard

 - 8km torps reload faster and are much easier to land when you manage to set up an attack but they do suffer from lack of versatility - the lack of range does hurt in many situations where you can't really afford to push in close for whatever reason

 

2 hours ago, Rokko1v said:

if the answer is yes, wouldnt then the gearing be the better choice with 16,5km torps?

Gearing's torps are great (they are less visible and have better range) but there's still only 10 of them (compared to Shimakaze's 15), they don't hit nearly as hard (17,9k vs 23,8k per torp), they don't cause flooding nearly as reliably and (after the recent Shima buff) they are not mounted on platform nearly as stealthy (7,6 base concealment vs 7,1). Oh, and the hull in question isn't nearly as fast either (36 vs 39kn)

In fact, among USN DDs, Fletcher is a clearly superior torpedoboat - despite having only 10,5km range on her torps, she easily outperforms Gearing due to much superior reload as well as better damage per torpedo.

As a torpedo boat, Fletcher with torpedo build can compete with Shima (though one plays around her reload and the other - around the absolutely devastating alpha of a good salvo) but Gearing? No, Shimakaze is a clearly superior torpedo boat when compared to Gearing. 16km of Range can come in handy from time to time, sure, but it's too situational of an advantage.

 

 

 

So, to sum this up. If looking only at t10s, the answer (Gearing or Shimakaze) would be simple:

Do you want guns to wreck enemy DDs up close and rain fire on big ships from greater distance/smoke? Pick Gearing.

Do you want to blow stuff out of the water with your torpedoes? Pick Shimakaze.

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1 hour ago, Rokko1v said:

dont buy the torp upgrades,stay with 20km but use the captains torp acceleration perk.

I strongly advise against it. Captain perk does NOT help with the biggest issue the 20km torps have - their spotting range.

20km torps of Shimakaze are automatically spotted at 2,5km away from target.

12km torps are spotted at 1,7km away.

This is a HUGE disadvantage, even if you waste a couple skill points to negate the speed difference.

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I'm a DD main, learnt the class on the IJN line. From your qualifiers i'd also advise that line for you. it isn't the strongest line in my opinion, but it gets the fundamentals as a solid foundation for you. A DDs primary weapon is the ability to move without being detected, IJN ingrains the sneaky style of shipping into your gameplay. My favorite is PA, but in all honesty i think it wouldn't be a good starter line, as not having torps which are not a threat to other DDs requires a good grounding in the basics first.

 

Hope that helps

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It actually really depends on "What you want!"

The best torp boat in this game is If you ask me is YUGUMO!

Shima has more torps, but a hectic reload, not being able to use TRB that the yugumo can use. and guns are way far away from defending herself..

Yugumo has better concealment (yes I know only 100 meters.. but BETTER IS BETTER! :P )

much much better guns.. can even considered as a meh gunboat..

 

But If you want both torps and guns, and trust yourself to play in that hectic style..

Gearing is a much better both gunboat and torpboat than shima.. tier for tier..

and fletchers eat Yugumo alive when it comes to knife fight..

 

Then there is yueyang.. people says it is gearing on steroids mixed with LSD and Meth..

It can have radar.. or an incredibly OP smooke.. yes torps cannot hit DDs.. but why do you need to hit DDs with torps when you can Tear a newone with your guns.. even to the russian ones If you are a good captain.

Great concealment.. ninja torps...

 

So.. what do you want to do?

Do you want to be a hero! a glorious champion? guns blazing at the front... pick US line

do you want to be the assasin who hides in smokes.. behind islands.. comes from the back.. stabs from the neck! pick Japanese

Do you want to be Drunk no afraid fist fighter.. who does kapoera while drunk? pick russians..

and If you want to be the insane genetically modified monster which kept in a cage by the soldiers until the last moment then dropped on to the enemies from castle wall to tear them by hands limb by limb and eat their intestines afterwards.. pick PA.. because That is the feeling yueyang gives me!

 

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15 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

much much better guns

Wat.

They literally have the same guns. Same reload, same alpha, same fire chance, same number of barrels, same configuration (2 turrets back, one front). Yugumo's one advantage is 12km vs Shima's 11,4km range. I mean, an advantage is an advantage, sure, but "much, much" suggests something slightly more fundamental than a little bit over half kilometer range advantage in top configuration...

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IMO think again and reconsider PA DDs, the Lo Yang is the perfect trainer from T7 onwards too. The Deep Water Torps are not that much of an issue as it's rare you torp enemy DDs and you can usually dodge enemy torps as long as you don't fail smoke camp.

 

Failing that, your two choices would suggest USN as they become very good multi purpose DDs, also from T7 onwards. Plus wait long enough and the Sims will be back on sale.

 

KM DDs are ok but they're the classic Jack of all Trades but Master of None. The higher tier ones have good AP vs broadside stuff but overall have awful HE DPM.

 

RU DDs are interesting but are more all for the guns. Leningrad is probably the last traditional DD of that line and it's a Prem ship.

 

IJN DDs are ok but they're mostly torp boats. Harekaze is the greatest thing ever but might not be sold again and needs a unique captain to really work with the B Hull.

 

Not sure if I class as a DD main but I've played quite a bit of them...

 

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On 15.05.2018 г. at 2:15 PM, eliastion said:

Wat.

They literally have the same guns. Same reload, same alpha, same fire chance, same number of barrels, same configuration (2 turrets back, one front). Yugumo's one advantage is 12km vs Shima's 11,4km range. I mean, an advantage is an advantage, sure, but "much, much" suggests something slightly more fundamental than a little bit over half kilometer range advantage in top configuration...

Then it is totally my perception fail about the guns :)

 

 

On 15.05.2018 г. at 2:44 PM, Negativvv said:

IJN DDs are ok but they're mostly torp boats. Harekaze is the greatest thing ever but might not be sold again and needs a unique captain to really work with the B Hull.

We should always seperate the akizuki from the rest of the IJN DD lines..

That thing is wierd!

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5 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

We should always seperate the akizuki from the rest of the IJN DD lines..

That thing is wierd!

Yeah, Aki is good but B Hull Harekaze is even better.

 

Problem is both need IFHE and CE with a strong argument for RPF too which is a long grind as well as limiting your captain builds.

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Some good suggestions so far. 

 

Since you don't like it hectic go ijn. Us dds demand a bit more expertise and awareness (when and where do I smoke/shoot/run?). Also that line has the Mahan at tvii which will greatly kill your fun. 

 

I still played the old ijn line, so can't talk about Akatsuki, but the rest is okay to fantastic. Moduli

Mutsuki will teach you prediction torping and playing the class in a more tactical role. Kagero is one of my all time favourite ships, Yugumo may suffer due to the shima buff and shima is just tons of fun. 

 

Should you go us: never mount the gun range upgrade. You will only increase your firing spotting range for no benefit. The shells are too lazy. 

 

Just do all of us a favour please and educate yourself about the play style. There are far too many people who can't play the class and don't realise that sometimes it's better to back out of the cap and fight at a more opportune time. Should you have any questions please feel free to ask, and most of all: enjoy the ride ;).

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2 minutes ago, Negativvv said:

Yeah, Aki is good but B Hull Harekaze is even better.

 

Problem is both need IFHE and CE with a strong argument for RPF too which is a long grind as well as limiting your captain builds.

I dont have the Harekaze, but considering this, then the Akizuki captain should work perfectly on Harekaze with B hull?

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@Rokko1v

 

Ive played just about EVERY DD in the game.  and have 4500 games in DD 

 

Calling 10km torps a bit Meh... 

 

Lesson 101 in DD play.. when you get to higher tiers if you want to be an effective torpedo boat you want to be attacking ships at about 2 or 3km (if not less)  outside you detection range range. If you using 16k torps on the Gearing or 20km on the Shima dont expect to be any where near effective if you launch  at max range. Also attacking at that max range range you are more dangerous to friendly's than the enemy.

Basically you will not do much if you regularly attack ships at over 10km. 

Z52 has very good Torpedoes very fast  Very Very fast reload and ok damage

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6 minutes ago, nambr9 said:

I dont have the Harekaze, but considering this, then the Akizuki captain should work perfectly on Harekaze with B hull?

Yes Aki captain goes into B Hull Harekaze perfectly. They use the same 100mm guns but Harekaze just gets one less turret and less HP but in exchange gets superior speed, concealment and double the torps which can be used to deadly effect....

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