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Midway vs. Hakuryu

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I'm playing KOTS and I can say for sure it's impossible to play Midway against Hakuryu

If anyone can say opposite pls....shut up and dont say idiocy

 

Ty to WG for all nerf you give to Midway

 

 

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Your fault for actually thinking that Midway was a good choice for KOTS.

And no, this has nothing to do with any nerfs, because Midway was never viable for KOTS.

 

And it doesn't mean that Midway is underpowered, it's just not suitable for the game mode of KOTS.

For example the same goes for Chaba, nobody would play her in KOTS but it's still far from underpowered.

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I start devlope Midway (starting by Langley) when she had air superiority build 3F + 2DB

 

....Then they change config and eliminated superiority build

....Then they nerf Fighters to tier 9 (Hakuryu has tier 10)

....Then they nerf hangar

 

I hope they know to develope a tier X need 1 year or more

Now I'm alone in my team to have CV tier X...and I have a useless CV

Useless in Tournaments

Useless in Random

Useless in anyother game

 

14 flying fighters tier 9 against 15 fighters tier 10

6 groups against 8

18.36 spotting range against 15.66

...And what about indecent long, long time to spam any air group?

 

And they call it "balancing"???????

 

Now I need 1 year or more to develope Hakuryu....and when i'll have Hakuryu i bet WG will nerf her with another fail and stupid "balancing"

 

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Your fault for actually thinking that Midway was a good choice for KOTS.

And no, this has nothing to do with any nerfs, because Midway was never viable for KOTS.

 

Today i end my planes in hangar

did you remember 1 month ago Midway hangar had 136 planes?

 

Who nerf it?

Yes...Midway maybe was never a viable for KOTS but any "Beatiful Mind" though to nerf Midway and not Hakuryu....WHY?

 

Who's the great mind in WG who thinks to balance nerfing the weak ship?

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And what about the huge 2-2-2 buff for Midway?

You may remember that it absolutely ruled the seas and (nearly) nobody played Haku for half a year.

It was plain obvious that it had to be nerfed.

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136 was what it actually had in real life when it left the drydock on launch day and since it actually existed unlike the Hakuryu, I feel it should have kept that. The Midway wasn't over performing

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Simply put if you face equal skilled opponent and have equal skilled team you can not win if you drive Midway...simple as that...but this is truth more or less for every CV t6+ if you drive USN CV...simple USN line apart premium ones (which you can not get it now) are worse then IJN...Midway was different but it also now fell under this pattern...I hope that they will at least return T10 planes to Midway...

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17 hours ago, OOAndreasOO said:

If anyone can say opposite pls....shut up and dont say idiocy

 

Chap, That's isn't a great way to get some feedback comments by telling people that might have another opinion to shut up before they have said anything.  Just a tip.

 

But.....I agree with the Hak being better.  The Midway is a capable ship, but you want the best Ship for KOTS then the Hak is a better choice.  Simply more flexible. 

 

They need people to grind ships and lines, that's where they make their money.  So they change the ships that people already have and make the lines that people don't play better.  It forces/suggests people to play the new lines and £££. Simple as that.  I bet you will start grinding the Hak now wont you? Working as intended. 

 

They buffed the Midway to the highest point since Closed and then....Wack! They nerf hammer it.  But it made a hell of alot of people grind the line to get it :cap_tea:

 

I've said this before but Games Workshop are notorious for this business model.  If your not selling something, make it better than the one everyone has already got. 

 

WG know what they are doing.  It would take a few good CV players a day to balance the US/IJN CV line but it has taken WG years?  Always a reason. 

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I will just leave my comment here. Note that I have not played in Beta. I am CV main & play comp. 

 

=== In Randoms ===

 

AS Midway was cancer, just as AS Haku. A good CV player with fighter control skills in AS Haku or old AS Midway will lock out and deny any opponent if he goes full team support, focusing on air. There is very little the other CV in strike Haku or Midway can do. Will be very boring game for both players. Fortunately few people play AS Haku because you sacrifice way too much damage potential & now Midway only has a balanced 2-2-2 loadout - a good thing in my opinion. Playing strike Haku vs. this 2-2-2 Midway could be very frustrating because you could either protect your team or your strike. You basically can only try to outdamage the Midway. There was no way you could get air. The new 3-3-2 Haku is great, because it gives you more options. Whoever still plays AS Haku in randoms is pretty stupid in my personal opinion. There is no need for that if you have good fighter control. Still Haku fighter reserves where not increased. If you lose that 3rd squad, you cannot refill it. That is totally fair and rewards skilled play. 

Before the hangar nerf, it was practically impossible to deplane a Midway. Hell, he could even intentionally waste all planes of his first strike wave, so they would be up again faster due to not having to fly back to the CV. That is how stupid the reserves where. It was totally viable to go faster plane servicing upgrade vs. fighter buff, because you just had that many planes to spare and usually ran out of battle time before running out of reserves. Please, do try to justify this, I would enjoy hearing arguments for keeping the original reserves. If you really need all of them, then you are simply a bad CV player, period! The Midway in its current state is by no means weak. But you have to play it right. Your 2 fighters can still get air easy from a strike Haku, even with T9 planes. The one thing that tilts me a bit, is how fast the T8 TBs die and how slow they are. I would almost say, reduce the TB squad size by 1-2 planes and make them T9. But lets see, what the new upgrades will do. Still, today Midway can get king of the air in almost every game, cross drop DDs & get a lot of damage + it is easier to play than Haku, due to fewer squads. The worse concealment matters very little. 

 

To summarize: AS Haku is very hard to beat except for another AS Haku. This is a problem, I agree. But still Midway in randoms does not face that very often, so here the CV is very strong. If you cannot get air with the 2 fighters, the massive reserves and that OP frontal strafe that eats the small T10 IJN plane squads up  easy, then you need to improve your skill, simple as that. Calling Midway useless is just dumb.

 

=== In Competitive ===

 

The meta is and has always been AS IJN CV. That was true for T8 and is still very true for T10. Now you can argue for 3-3-2 Haku in comp, but unless you are a God with fighters and the enemy CV is rather average, I'd advise against it. So saying that this is something new, is false. If one had plans to play CV in comp, one was aware of this for a long time and had all the time in the world to grind up the IJN CV line.

 

More squads are better to be present across the map to cover and to spot. These are the main duties of a comp CV. The Midway simply has too few squads to effectively do that. It can project a lot of power on one point of the map, but only once or twice due to long rearm times. Also that power runs head on into a wall of full speq AA builds on all ships on the map. The planes just melt & in the meantime the Haku is spotting everything for its team, while the Midway team is blind. So yeah, in comp the Midway is very inferior to AS Haku.

 

OOAndreasOO really no offense but the way you played your Midway against me last Sunday was not going to get you any good results. On opening your 2 fighters prevented one of my TB to spot one flank. That is an achievement, to prevent spotting is important. But then you did nothing against my other TB on the other side, that just flew behind your team and spotted said flank anyway. Next you engaged my fighters without need and without a plan what you want to achieve with that action. At least none that I could see. By moving them away from your teams AA cover, you allowed me to gang up on them and trade very favorably for me in plane kills. Only after your fighters were dead you sent in your strike planes. If anything, you should have sent them at the same time, trying to get past my fighters while I was busy. Now they came in single file one at the time & you made no evasive maneuvers or tried to mind game me into a missed strafe. They kept flying in a straight line so I could strafe them full from behind. Also that was way too early to sent them in. In front of your planes was a 3 ship overlapping AA blob of death. At least try to bait def AA or wait until a DD is isolated or a BB was HE spammed and lost AA mounts. There is no way you can get a strike in that early. Better would have been to empty your DBs and spot with them best you can. Play punctual cover and spotting until you can strike something with TBs, like crossdropping a DD. For killing such a target it is worth losing all planes. Midway can afford it to a degree because of the reserves. This way it would have been possible to get something done while the way you tried to play, you achieved next to nothing unfortunately. 

 

Best of luck in your games. Us CV players have to stick together. Happy hunting!

 

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No one in here is saying that Midway is useless. We are all saying more or less that it can not compete against Haku if you face similar skilled opponent(s). So bottom line Midway is now under par against Haku and no you can not beat  it if you have similar skills, you can beat it only and only if you have superior skills to Haku player...so it is not balanced at all...Argument that Midway CVs do not see Haku players much is no argument at all...but I concur with Redcap357 post...I would say that WG is forcing people to grind for IJN CVs....for me not going to happen...

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OOAndreasOO calls Midway useless in post number 3. Useless in randoms and useless in comp. Hence my statement.

 

Please read my post again. I'm specifically talking about AS Haku. The one with 4 fighters. This you see rarely in randoms. So that is very much an argument. I agree that it is next to impossible to do any damage if you face AS Haku who knows how to use fighters. 

 

But today a Midway facing a 3-3-2 Haku in randoms is not outmatched at all, even if skill level of both CVs is equal. If you as a Midway player struggle against that, then it simply means that you have worse fighter control than the other CV player and/or less ability to judge the battle situation correctly, to win the mind game where and when to attack or defend. Or maybe that the enemy team has more AA in better positions in the map, putting you at a disadvantage. But this can happen in every CV. Haku us more flexible overall but you can still wreck hard in Midway if you play it right by being patient and selecting the right targets. 

 

If you just want to play randoms, you do not have ro grind IJN CVs at all. WG is not forcing you. Ok, fair enough that Ranger and Lex are a bit on the weak side. But yeah, for comp play you really should own IJN.

 

 

 

 

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20 hours ago, NoCoGX said:

 

But today a Midway facing a 3-3-2 Haku in randoms is not outmatched at all, even if skill level of both CVs is equal. If you as a Midway player struggle against that, then it simply means that you have worse fighter control than the other CV player and/or less ability to judge the battle situation correctly, to win the mind game where and when to attack or defend. Or maybe that the enemy team has more AA in better positions in the map, putting you at a disadvantage. But this can happen in every CV. Haku us more flexible overall but you can still wreck hard in Midway if you play it right by being patient and selecting the right targets. 

 

If you just want to play randoms, you do not have ro grind IJN CVs at all. WG is not forcing you. Ok, fair enough that Ranger and Lex are a bit on the weak side. But yeah, for comp play you really should own IJN.

 

 

 

 

But here is the thing you do not compare equal conditions if someone has better AA it is not equal condition...and you said by yourself that Midway might perform ok in random where everything is random :)....one again if all is equal (and if balance is good it should be like that) Midway do not have nothing to look for compared to Haku...and this is not good...I do not say that Midway can not perform well but it perform worse in every aspect compared to Haku...even in damage potential...as it is tied to area control where Haku surprise surprise  is also better...I would say that maybe a small buff like T 10 planes would even things...but we all know that it will not happen. Bottom line you can see at statistics where Haku is 50+ % in wins and Midway is 50- %....things would be way worse percentage wise for midway that game do not force mirror matches...

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Besides the 4-2-2 Haku.... the CV player with the better fighter control will always have the upper hand no matter if he plays Midway or 3-3-2 Haku. Midway just plays differently. But I agree that that Torp Bombers of the Midway should be changed somehow. It is not right, that T8 planes go into T10 MM... make them T9 but reduce the TB squad size. 

 

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You said alone that you must be better in order to beat Haku but if you are the same you can not beat Haku and that is the point of balancing. You must have a chance to beat opponent on the same level...in here you do not... thus Haku should be nerfed or Midway should be boosted.

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Who are you talking to Bainsmith_steel? If you are talking to me, I never said that you have to be better CV player to beat Haku. I said the better CV player, no matter the ship, will have the advantage. Midway is still more powerful in the fighter air game than the 3-3-2 Haku. Especially in longer games.

 

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Let me say like this better player in chess will always beat worse player in chess...but equal skilled players will usually play draw. So chess is balanced.

IF you transfer that to Midway vs Haku...Better Midway player will probbably beat Haku but equal skilled player of MIdway will loose to Haku in most cases thus Midway is weaker then Haku so those two are not balanced....and balance will not happen. Also it probably is not important as soon CVs as we known will not be in here....

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Vor 29 Minuten, Bainsmit_steel sagte:

Better Midway player will probbably beat Haku but equal skilled player of MIdway will loose to Haku in most cases

And on what facts do you base that assumption?

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Midway and 3-3-2 Haku need to be played differently and, in my personal opinion, Haku is more flexible overall - able to support different strategies you want to go for. But I would not call either ship strictly better over the other. 

 

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On 5/19/2018 at 3:38 PM, Commander_Cornflakes said:

And on what facts do you base that assumption?

Statistics says that 

 

Hakuryu    Japan    308 867    48.20 %    1.28  
Midway    U.S.A.    375 138    46.58 %    1.23

 

If mirror matches where not forced things would be way worse...for sure. 

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Vor 7 Stunden, Bainsmit_steel sagte:

Statistics says that 

 

Hakuryu    Japan    308 867    48.20 %    1.28  
Midway    U.S.A.    375 138    46.58 %    1.23

 

If mirror matches where not forced things would be way worse...for sure. 

Please reconsider how reliable those stats are.

Because they:

  • include only a fracture of the players (incomplete)
  • are overall stats since the beginning of WoWs, which means they include stats from before all buffs, nerfs and general changes (not up-to-date)
  • don't show the player's skill at all and are therefore inapt to support your point. It could just be that the Haku players are more skilled than Midway players and you would never know.

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I am just an average player of Cvs...and funny enough I faced Haku 3 times and beat it 2 times...third time i was completely outplayed...but you should not say that 300k of games are not enough to conclude things...elections in USA can be predicted by 95% of accuracy with 300k of sample :)....Either way I like to play carriers despite I am often named and shamed...Midway is a great leap compared to Essex...I am sad to see that Cvs..in this form will be gone...and I still think that Haku beats Midway if all other conditions are the same...but then again you are top tier player and I am not so you probably know more then me...  

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On 13-5-2018 at 5:02 PM, Commander_Cornflakes said:

Your fault for actually thinking that Midway was a good choice for KOTS.

And no, this has nothing to do with any nerfs, because Midway was never viable for KOTS.

 

And it doesn't mean that Midway is underpowered, it's just not suitable for the game mode of KOTS.

For example the same goes for Chaba, nobody would play her in KOTS but it's still far from underpowered.

 

A tournament with fixed teams gives a better view on the balance of the game since it takes out a large amount of the variable, which is basicly idiots on your team or not.

So when a ship like the Midway is not performing even close to how the hakuryu does in such a tournament, then the ships are not properly balanced.

 

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Vor 13 Minuten, Daisai sagte:

 

A tournament with fixed teams gives a better view on the balance of the game since it takes out a large amount of the variable, which is basicly idiots on your team or not.

So when a ship like the Midway is not performing even close to how the hakuryu does in such a tournament, then the ships are not properly balanced.

 

That is wrong, because a tournament like KOTS also adds a number of variables that you won't find in random games. For example everyone is AA-specced and uses Def-AA.

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2 hours ago, Commander_Cornflakes said:

That is wrong, because a tournament like KOTS also adds a number of variables that you won't find in random games. For example everyone is AA-specced and uses Def-AA.

 

An aa build is rather normal if you group up with a CV in random battles like you would if you enter a team with KOTS with a CV, so that is where you are wrong.

And def AA and AA builds are also part of the game so it is also a good way to see how AA is balanced.

 

That hardly anyone ever uses an AA build when solo queueing and the developers trying to balance the game around that fact might be one of the reasons why using a CV with AA cruisers is so unbalanced in random battles compared to a solo queuing CV without proper AA cruiser support.

 

 

 

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