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British_Imperialist

A potential solution to camping Battleships

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I feel as if the solution to camping BBs is not to punish campers, but to reward the battleships who take point and tank for their team. In World of Tanks, there are several awards that are given for damage blocked by armor, and it's curious that WoWS doesn't have this. Awards, and flags given for these awards, would encourage better play among Battleships. An award something like:

 

BULLETPROOF

Heroic Individual

During a Battle, block shells that would deal over 100% of your ship's maximum HP and survive the Battle.

Additional reward once every 24 hours.

 

Bulletproof is calculated using a shell's maximum damage (ie: A citadel penetration). This means for example, a Yamato that bounces 7 shells from another Yamato would receive Bulletproof. More likely, Bulletproof will be achieved through bounces of Cruiser calibre shells. The flag rewarded for achieving Bulletproof is 10 x Nova Delta Hotel.

 

NOVA DELTA HOTEL

"I have sustained no damage, continue the operation."

Signal Flag

Chance of being set on fire -5%

Chance of sustaining flooding -5%

Cooldown of Damage Control Party -5%

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I'm not sure; first reaction is to think might be better to use potential damage as weapons fired at you that miss are still weapons fired at you rather than someone else. Second reaction is to think that the situation where a battleship is most likely to bounce shells would be when bow-tanking (like in World of Tanks where you're likely to bounce when snuggled down and angled). And would it only be bouncing AP or would it be shattering HE (since both are the armour blocking the shell)? And is that amount blocked a little low?

 

So I like the principle, and the signal, but unsure of the details.

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So basically what you want is a BBaby signal to stop the nasty HE and Torpedo damage DoT effects to be obtained by a rather easy achievement. That signal (if it happened would be insanely OP especially stacked with tanking captain builds)

In many DD matches I get 1-2m potential damage, Khaba drivers far, far more. Most BB games I play I pass 1m potential damage in the first 5-10 minutes. You've even put it as Citadel damage. 

I don't think you've thought this through at all except in an "I drive BB's and I want it even easier" frame of mind.

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I believe camping BBs will never be solved as long as there are players that believe they are at risk of instant deletion once they are spotted. Granted that it's a silly notion coming from BB players as they are equipped to manage damage taken, but only experienced players know how to manage that damage.

 

What we need is for the game to reward ships that perform their expected role, and it just so happens that BBs are the ones that have the least reward for performing their actual role. They can't be cappers, they can't be spotters so all they have left is damage, and that they can only do over substantial time (except those that somehow where given OP DoT firepower, cough cough).

 

To give an example, cruisers with worst concealment tend to take the back line or use their firing angles to shoot from behind cover. The whole game moves towards extreme firing ranges as the tiers go up, which further enhances the wrong concept that ships can sit at max range and just farm damage without helping the team objective. I mean, what do you expect to happen if you give a T6 like the IJN BB crazy accuracy at extreme range and a shooting range that often equals the map length? What is there as an incentive in game mechanics for that ship to push forward besides the whole team berating him in chat?

 

I am for a reward system that motivates correct behaviours, but in the form of enhanced XP/credits gain, not in the shape of special flags that give buffs. BBs don't need buffs. They need the correct playstyle to be encouraged.

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1 hour ago, BeauNidl3 said:

So basically what you want is a BBaby signal to stop the nasty HE and Torpedo damage DoT effects to be obtained by a rather easy achievement. That signal (if it happened would be insanely OP especially stacked with tanking captain builds)

In many DD matches I get 1-2m potential damage, Khaba drivers far, far more. Most BB games I play I pass 1m potential damage in the first 5-10 minutes. You've even put it as Citadel damage. 

I don't think you've thought this through at all except in an "I drive BB's and I want it even easier" frame of mind.

http://prntscr.com/jgtrhv

 

Also the flag probably needs tweaking, yeah.

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19 minutes ago, The_Dunk_Squad said:

http://prntscr.com/jgtrhv

 

Also the flag probably needs tweaking, yeah.

 

As does the achievement, it would be an almost automatic get for a ship with any armour or a driver that has the vaguest idea of how to angle.

It would have no effect on BB camping, the simple fact is they camp because they can reliably do damage from long range (even unspotted, not forgetting the gun bloom makes them blink as in only the case of BB's their reload is longer than the bloom) while not taking any risks.

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1 hour ago, BeauNidl3 said:

I don't think you've thought this through at all except in an "I drive BB's and I want it even easier" frame of mind.

 

And I'm not sure that you have thought it through. A ship that kills planes earns signals to boost AA, a ship that kills another with secondaries gets signals to boost the secondaries, a ship that survives enough damage gets signals to boost its heal, and so it follows from that logic that a ship that "tanks" enough damage might be granted signals to help it survive the inevitable fires and possible torpedo hits and flooding. 5% is too powerful for the ease of earning, after all Fire Prevention only gives a 10% reduction for 4-points, but with the number of things in WoWs that are 5% it is understandable as a figure to seize on as a first draft.

 

Ballpark figure I'd suggest would be 3 million potential damage for a less powerful signal or 4 million for this as it stands or (preferably) a figure that scales with tier in the same way as was suggested for the new AA achievements. Saying potential damage as that already measured and is now displayed. If it did work on damage bounced then would have to be a lot higher than 100%, it doesn't take much of a misaim, much bad luck with dispersion, or much of a turn by the target to get a smattering of overpenetrations and bounces from what had seemed a good salvo.

 

1 hour ago, EgyptOverseer said:

I believe camping BBs will never be solved as long as there are players that believe they are at risk of instant deletion once they are spotted...

 

...BBs don't need buffs. They need the correct playstyle to be encouraged.

 

Play correctly by pushing and tanking damage, without pushing stupidly and getting sunk, and be encouraged to do that again by having a signal that reduces the risks of it. I doubt it would work, but I think I can see how The_Dunk_Squad was hoping it would encourage.

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You are aware that we have Dreadnought and Fireproof Achievements that give flags for tanking?

People still camp.

 

You suggestion will do nothing, except making BB even stronger.

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1 hour ago, sinky1975 said:

Solution is simple. Put max 3 dd in each team, or 2 dd and 1cv.

Which won't do anything!

Those problem players hide at rear/map borders even without any destroyers left in enemy team, because they can get away from using team as meatshield without consequencies.

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Best way would be to pretty much eliminate bb ap damage to dds (like in the old days). In that case bbs would actually have to stay near the team in order not to get torped to oblivion. 

 

Your signal suggestion is broken btw. Do you know how often you get 2000% of your hp as potential? 

 

Other ideas include cv buff vs bbs (or better yet bb aa reduction) and raising citadels to normal levels again so you don't have those impenetrable broadsides. 

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yesterday an Iowa beached while reversing over 10 km. People in this game are cowards ... thats the problem.

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5 hours ago, EgyptOverseer said:

I believe camping BBs will never be solved as long as there are players that believe they are at risk of instant deletion once they are spotted. Granted that it's a silly notion coming from BB players as they are equipped to manage damage taken, but only experienced players know how to manage that damage.

 

What we need is for the game to reward ships that perform their expected role, and it just so happens that BBs are the ones that have the least reward for performing their actual role. They can't be cappers, they can't be spotters so all they have left is damage, and that they can only do over substantial time (except those that somehow where given OP DoT firepower, cough cough).

 

To give an example, cruisers with worst concealment tend to take the back line or use their firing angles to shoot from behind cover. The whole game moves towards extreme firing ranges as the tiers go up, which further enhances the wrong concept that ships can sit at max range and just farm damage without helping the team objective. I mean, what do you expect to happen if you give a T6 like the IJN BB crazy accuracy at extreme range and a shooting range that often equals the map length? What is there as an incentive in game mechanics for that ship to push forward besides the whole team berating him in chat?

 

I am for a reward system that motivates correct behaviours, but in the form of enhanced XP/credits gain, not in the shape of special flags that give buffs. BBs don't need buffs. They need the correct playstyle to be encouraged.

I like this spot on . If the Range was reduced on BB's they would have to push in more...less camping and more rewards for BB players perhaps. everyone wins what's not to like?:cap_like:

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I think only way to force campers move, is not reward but punishment. And not something theoretical like less xp - that to complicated to proccess for plenty of these players.

 

Something like airstrike from ground bases.  Stay five minute in one map square (except non-friendly caps) and ground based bombers will visit area. Nothing insta-kill just  plenty HE bombing. Or random square bombing aka battle royale.

 

But this would have lot of consequences to game, so i am not sure it is good solution.

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2 minutes ago, SeaWolf7 said:

I like this spot on . If the Range was reduced on BB's they would have to push in more...less camping and more rewards for BB players perhaps. everyone wins what's not to like?:cap_like:

Whine "why my battleboat has range of a cruiser" would be of a battleship proportions on the forums

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1 minute ago, Vrumugun said:

I think only way to force campers move, is not reward but punishment. And not something theoretical like less xp - that to complicated to proccess for plenty of these players.

 

Something like airstrike from ground bases.  Stay five minute in one map square (except non-friendly caps) and ground based bombers will visit area. Nothing insta-kill just  plenty HE bombing. Or random square bombing aka battle royale.

 

But this would have lot of consequences to game, so i am not sure it is good solution.

I don't think punishment is they way forward we need a motivator of some sort.

If BB players felt like they were being punished all the time I think they would probably leve in droves and Threads of complaint would appear all over the place....

Spoiler

kjlzfld.gif

 

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godzinę temu, EsaTuunanen napisał:

Which won't do anything!

Those problem players hide at rear/map borders even without any destroyers left in enemy team, because they can get away from using team as meatshield without consequencies.

Exactly
Especially in higher tiers BB`s camp their sterns off for no apparent reason other than "I got range!"

 

8 godzin temu, The_Dunk_Squad napisał:

BULLETPROOF

Heroic Individual

During a Battle, block shells that would deal over 100% of your ship's maximum HP and survive the Battle.

Additional reward once every 24 hours.

This idea has some issues, for example it`s generally better to dodge the shells completly rather than attempt richocheting/shattering them. Therefore you are not doing a really good job taking bullets to the face.

Next thing is the way too small threshold for achievment, since in fact you can get it by tanking a single shell, and survivng the battle with 100hp because you got citadeled into oblivion (unless you count only ricochets, and shatters). Also as mentioned above you can VERY eaisly get your potential damage very high - for example i tanked 808.302 damage in a V-25 - a tier 2 DD with 7700 total HP, which is roughly 10497% it`s health.

 

In other words this is not going to solve any problems, but rather make BB`s even stronger.

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9 hours ago, The_Dunk_Squad said:

I feel as if the solution to camping BBs is not to punish campers, but to reward the battleships who take point and tank for their team. In World of Tanks, there are several awards that are given for damage blocked by armor, and it's curious that WoWS doesn't have this. Awards, and flags given for these awards, would encourage better play among Battleships. An award something like:

 

BULLETPROOF

Heroic Individual

During a Battle, block shells that would deal over 100% of your ship's maximum HP and survive the Battle.

Additional reward once every 24 hours.

 

Bulletproof is calculated using a shell's maximum damage (ie: A citadel penetration). This means for example, a Yamato that bounces 7 shells from another Yamato would receive Bulletproof. More likely, Bulletproof will be achieved through bounces of Cruiser calibre shells. The flag rewarded for achieving Bulletproof is 10 x Nova Delta Hotel.

 

NOVA DELTA HOTEL

"I have sustained no damage, continue the operation."

Signal Flag

Chance of being set on fire -5%

Chance of sustaining flooding -5%

Cooldown of Damage Control Party -5%

In high tier battles 90% surviiving BBs and 90% surviving cruisers would be getting this achievement in each match. It would also be pretty common for DDs that find themselves fired upon by a British cruiser at any point (assuming they survive). Citaadel damage dealt by shells is ENORMOUS compared to the actual average damage a shell does - and bounces are hardly uncommon.

 

As for the signal - sounds like a useful little thing to get DCP cooldown down a bit more.

 

Conclusion: as described, this would be, effectively, a survivability buff for BBs. Not a huge one, certainly, but a buff nonetheless. Do we really need survivability buffs for BBs?

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3 hours ago, sinky1975 said:

Solution is simple. Put max 3 dd in each team, or 2 dd and 1cv.

Oh yes, yes, PLEASE, max 3 DD per team, as a DD main I can't wait for this tremendous buff to DDs :Smile_teethhappy:

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1 hour ago, SeaWolf7 said:

I don't think punishment is they way forward we need a motivator of some sort.

Hasn't that been already tried for many years?

With result being big fat failure and as strong bad play as ever.

 

Just like in real world best motivator is both rewards for good play and consequencies from totally bad play.

If there's no clear consequencies for that sitting at max range and use of team as meatshield rewards loose their significance, because sabotaging many enough teams still gets worst players forward.

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4 hours ago, ColonelPete said:

You are aware that we have Dreadnought and Fireproof Achievements that give flags for tanking?

People still camp.

 

You suggestion will do nothing, except making BB even stronger.


Indeed... 

Perhaps an obvious point, however; they all also require you to... "Survive".
Neither reward promotes you to fight-to-the-death; running away to live once a certain level of damage is obtained is the only way to get either award.
Obvious error (if you are trying to encourage people to fight)  but still... 

An alternative way would be to change the game-mode and maps.

That said - there will be no magic bullet and any *fix* will be a combination of factors - within which better alternative rewards will have a part to play.
Saying "That won't work" to any suggestion won't get one anywhere.

So some form of alternate rewards for *good gameplay* is almost certainly a must.

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My solution for camping BB's, is to adjust dispersion.

 

At the moment dispersion is a linear progression with range. Change this so it's not, make it an exponential function so that dispersion gets much worse the longer the range.

 

BBabies can sit at max range if they want, and try and snipe all they want, but they are going to have a harder time hitting you.

 

OR

 

Break this games emphasis on more damage equals more XP and credits.

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so the trick is to find a way to motivate a BB to push hard and get close enough to be a credible threat and allow them to still make enough XP to make the top half of the score board before they are sunk by focused fire

also needs to cope with being first in the queue for hand delivered packets of misery from CVs , in range of DD torp soup as well as having 8 to 12 smoke screens hiding anything less than BB sized 

 

good luck

 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, _LordLucan said:

so the trick is to find a way to motivate a BB to push hard and get close enough to be a credible threat and allow them to still make enough XP to make the top half of the score board before they are sunk by focused fire

also needs to cope with being first in the queue for hand delivered packets of misery from CVs , in range of DD torp soup as well as having 8 to 12 smoke screens hiding anything less than BB sized 

 

good luck

 

 

 

Not really - all of those things are covered by what the rest of the team should be doing, as a team, to counter all of those things.

You cannot realistically "decry" that a BBs life is tough based on the totality of what it *could* face when all of that is already answered by the roles of the other ships on your team.

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Could start by actualy making it possible to play BBs like youre suggesting we should play. It works in low tiers, tier 4-6 where DDs have short range torps and cruisers have short range. Once you get up to higher tiers especially tier 8-10 youll start noticing that youll get deleted almost instantly once you try and push caps.

I was a BB main up until I started playing tier 9-10 and then I realized how utterly useless BBs are at higher tiers. If you move within 10 km of a capcircle or an island youll likely get instantly deleted by a swarm of deepwater or Shima torpedoes that you cant see until its too late. If you somehow manage to survive that youll get nuked by HE spamming cruisers 18 km away.

If you want to make BBs push and play more like a BB should you need to change the game so it allows players to not having to gamble when they run into a capzone. Reduce torpedorange, drasticly reduce amount of torpedoes that can be launched at a time and drasticly reduce range on all cruisers. If that would make BBs too powerful you can always together with this change long range dispersion to make targets harder to hit from long range.

 

Ill likely get flamed by a bunch of DD mains from typing this but this is the truth, no matter how much you disagree.

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