From Reddit: Almost 50K Secondaries damage to "Yamato" in 40 seconds from IFHE Secondary build "Grosser Kurfurst"...

[Leo_Apollo11]

Hi all,

 

From Reddit: Almost 50K Secondaries damage to "Yamato" in 40 seconds from IFHE Secondary build "Grosser Kurfurst"...

 

 

I always thought this was just a myth...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

[wilkatis_LV]

With IFHE GKs 128s get 41mm HE pen and 150s get 32mm HE pen.

 

Yamatos deck is far too thick for that, same as main belt, of course, but between the deck and main belt there is a very convenient 32mm armour zone.

 

Of course, in this case ALL those hits were on the bow, at which point it basically doesn't matter which tier 10 BB that was - everyone (except GK itself) has purely 32mm bow (GK has it at mostly 60mm with small areas of 32mm)

[Prospect_b]

IFHE on GK (and gneis) was never a myth.

 

It being a profitable build (aft+man s) in our glorious t10 meta might be though.

[Aotearas]

German BB 128mm and 150mm secondaries get the 1/4 HE pen rule, with 32mm and 37,5mm HE pen base (not sure if the latter rounds up or down). That means only the 150mm secondaries can damage BB 32mm hulls.

 

But with IFHE, those 128mm secondaries get 41,6mm (rounds up to 42) and the 150mm get 48,75 (rounds up to 49) HE pen, meaning both can damage 32mm BB hull armour. Yamato is actually not the best example since basically the entire middle part of the ship around the turrets and superstructure is impervious to the secondaries due to the 50-57mm deck armour.

Imagine the raw damage you can do to say a Conqueror, Republique (32mm all over) or a Montana (up to 38mm).

 

GK with an IFHE secondary spec is no joke once it gets into secondary range and it WILL *edited* you up good.

 

The downside of such a spec is that you either have (relatively) limited secondary range without AFT, or are spotted form the moon if you opted to forego CE. Pure trollbuild, but if you can get into range, oh boy those numbers don't lie.

 

Don't have the GK yet (find the FdG to be throughly boring to play and its 105mm secondaries are nowhere near as good as the 128mm so the build doesn't really work on that ship), but do have a 19 point captain with AFT/MS/IFHE prepared for it.

[wilkatis_LV]

28 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

German BB 128mm and 150mm secondaries get the 1/4 HE pen rule

Wasn't there a thing that only 128s got the /4 while 150s were /6?

[Aotearas]

4 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

Wasn't there a thing that only 128s got the /4 while 150s were /6?

The latest that I got told is the 128s and 150s get 1/4, the rest gets 1/6 ... which was a bit of bummer because I had hoped to use the same captain on my Tirpitz with its 105s only to find out those have the normal 1/6 HE pen rule.

[xXx_Blogis_xXx]

troll build for ranked^^

[Sigimundus]

52 minutes ago, Leo_Apollo11 said:

Hi all,

 

From Reddit: Almost 50K Secondaries damage to "Yamato" in 40 seconds from IFHE Secondary build "Grosser Kurfurst"...

 

 

I always thought this was just a myth...

 

 

Leo "Apollo11"

 

 

The IFHE Secondary build is the funniest build for GK alias 100k damage only by secondaries (Montana and Izumo sail tooo close to my secondaries)

Spoiler

 

 

[creamgravy]

45 minutes ago, wilkatis_LV said:

everyone (except GK itself) has purely 32mm bow (GK has it at mostly 60mm with small areas of 32mm)

 

Rep and Conq have 32mm everywhere. They melt very, very quickly at any range.

[ghostbuster_]

Its gonna work only against potato players/teams. Not even mentioning how many captain points you have to spend for that. There are much more usefull captain builts. IMO sec built in a T10 ship is a waste. IFHE sec built is just retarded.

[Aragathor]

23 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Its gonna work only against potato players/teams. Not even mentioning how many captain points you have to spend for that. There are much more usefull captain builts. IMO sec built in a T10 ship is a waste. IFHE sec built is just retarded.

 

It's trollish and situational, but not retarded. That term is reserved for Yamato players taking Survivability Expert and Last Stand.

[Redcap375]

It's not retarded in the slightest, it's an effective and fun build and their isn't many of them left that can have Both is there?

 

Its the only ship I have in port that is fully, IFHE included, secondary build and it melts things. You know all those bow-on camping BB tier 10 mega that goes on? Well it's great to be able to pen them at 11.5 with secondaries only.  Cruisers melt even faster.

 

What do you expect throwing penning shell's out every 2.4 seconds. Easy 80+ damage when the match turns into a brawl and that's the secondaries only.

 

But like we all know you give up tankyness and long range campy fights at tier 10 and if you push alone or too early then your toast. But when the time is right or a lonely BB thinks he's safe then you steam to him and smash him up.

 

Many times I use the secondary fire to kill one ship whilst the main guns are killing something else, you can multitask better and deal with 2 sets of targets

 

I love it but it's no for everyone. It's a pure fun build but extremely deadly when in range. It's getting there which is the problem in the high tier camping meta.

 

Don't believe me? Give it a go yourself  I'm sure people who come up against one will call it retarded, not the captain s fault tho.

[Chaos_Umbra]

My GK has the IFHE secondary build remember getting 70k from the secondary shells alone in one ranked match, once in range everything melts, except another GK.

[Aotearas]

3 hours ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Its gonna work only against potato players/teams. Not even mentioning how many captain points you have to spend for that. There are much more usefull captain builts. IMO sec built in a T10 ship is a waste. IFHE sec built is just retarded.

 

"Much more useful captain builds" is a pretty sweeping statement to make. An IFHE secondary GK is pretty damn effective once it gets into secondary range. If you don't want to play at such ranges or can't get it to work consistently, I'd argue that playing the GK would be the wrong ship choice in the first place rather than the captain build. Doesn't mean the GK or an IFHE secondary build is bad.

 

Personally I'd rather play ships by emphasizing their unique flavours than trying to min-max a utilitarian build to mold all battleships into the same playstyle niche such as using a stealth/fire-prevention build on every battleship just because it enhances their endurance. What would be the point of getting different battleships if you'd all try to play them the same with one optimized utilitarian build?

[ghostbuster_]

5 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

 

"Much more useful captain builds" is a pretty sweeping statement to make. An IFHE secondary GK is pretty damn effective once it gets into secondary range. If you don't want to play at such ranges or can't get it to work consistently, I'd argue that playing the GK would be the wrong ship choice in the first place rather than the captain build. Doesn't mean the GK or an IFHE secondary build is bad.

 

Personally I'd rather play ships by emphasizing their unique flavours than trying to min-max a utilitarian build to mold all battleships into the same playstyle niche such as using a stealth/fire-prevention build on every battleship just because it enhances their endurance. What would be the point of getting different battleships if you'd all try to play them the same with one optimized utilitarian build?

Concealment expert is one of the best captain perks for tier 10 BBs imo. Because you can suprise other ships easly and deal davastating damage on them. You can also get in stealth and survive. Its always usefull. But secondary build is just very situational and you have to spend 8 cantain points only for that. 8 captain points for very situatuonal build. If you take ifhe as well (i gotta say again, its really retarded to do imo.) Its 12 points. Its just not worth spending 12 points. Well i do play in mid ranges as well with my gk. But i dont have sec build. My results with gk are not bad. And i believe if i had the sec build, i wouldnt be able to get those results. You have to tank as much as possible, survive as long as possible and deal as much damage as possible. If you build your gk for secondaries, you lower your ability to tank and survive to get very situational damage dealing potential. Thats not worth doing it. Its good to troll people tho. Thats why i have 2 captains for tirpitz. One which i use when i play seriously. 2nd which i use when i want to troll people(sec build capt).

[Hawg]

IFHE GK build is freaking fun, if you like brawling which I do.   And more than fun, its very effective.   I agree its pointless though if you camp with your GK.

[Aotearas]

20 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Concealment expert is one of the best captain perks for tier 10 BBs imo. Because you can suprise other ships easly and deal davastating damage on them. You can also get in stealth and survive. Its always usefull. But secondary build is just very situational and you have to spend 8 cantain points only for that. 8 captain points for very situatuonal build. If you take ifhe as well (i gotta say again, its really retarded to do imo.) Its 12 points. Its just not worth spending 12 points. Well i do play in mid ranges as well with my gk. But i dont have sec build. My results with gk are not bad. And i believe if i had the sec build, i wouldnt be able to get those results. You have to tank as much as possible, survive as long as possible and deal as much damage as possible. If you build your gk for secondaries, you lower your ability to tank and survive to get very situational damage dealing potential. Thats not worth doing it. Its good to troll people tho. Thats why i have 2 captains for tirpitz. One which i use when i play seriously. 2nd which i use when i want to troll people(sec build capt).

You're not wrong, but if I wanted to play a BB to get into people's faces, I don't need Concealment Expert. If I want a sneaky-beaky BB with devastating alpha strikes, I'd play the Montana or Conqueror.

And like I said, what point is there in building a GK with (roughly) the same captain spec as you'd do say the Montana because it's an allround useful build, when the Montana is clearly better at the kind of gameplay you're speccing for. Why play the GK then?

 

Again, no one is denying that an IFHE secondary spec comes with some pretty hefty caveats. But once you get into that builds comfort zone, it is disgustingly effective ... and that's the charm of it. It's a challenge to make it work but when it does it's glorious. And when you can't make it work for various reasons (map, enemy positions, etc.pp.) it's a chellenge to have a good game despite the shortcomings (which is also fun to some people, a bit of a selfimposed challenge).

 

If people had all the 19 point captains in the world, I'm sure they'd also have one specced for different purposes that isn't quite as insular in nature. But failing that, speccing for different gameplays rather than making everything play the same just because it's a proven concept is a tad boring and in some cases outright squandering ship potential.

[ghostbuster_]

12 hours ago, Aotearas said:

You're not wrong, but if I wanted to play a BB to get into people's faces, I don't need Concealment Expert. If I want a sneaky-beaky BB with devastating alpha strikes, I'd play the Montana or Conqueror.

And like I said, what point is there in building a GK with (roughly) the same captain spec as you'd do say the Montana because it's an allround useful build, when the Montana is clearly better at the kind of gameplay you're speccing for. Why play the GK then?

 

Again, no one is denying that an IFHE secondary spec comes with some pretty hefty caveats. But once you get into that builds comfort zone, it is disgustingly effective ... and that's the charm of it. It's a challenge to make it work but when it does it's glorious. And when you can't make it work for various reasons (map, enemy positions, etc.pp.) it's a chellenge to have a good game despite the shortcomings (which is also fun to some people, a bit of a selfimposed challenge).

 

If people had all the 19 point captains in the world, I'm sure they'd also have one specced for different purposes that isn't quite as insular in nature. But failing that, speccing for different gameplays rather than making everything play the same just because it's a proven concept is a tad boring and in some cases outright squandering ship potential.

Even if you build GK same with montana, its still different. You still can brawl better with it. It can push easier because it has hydro. Building it same with montana doesnt mean they are not different at all. And yes montana is a better ship in general. Thats why i use it much more than GK.

 

I have never seen a GK being effective against me. I even laugh every time i see a sec spec T10 BB against me. 

 

Like i said before, secondaries are not the main damage dealer. You can not depend on them. Main guns are. So, specing a ship not for secondaries doesnt mean that you re wasting ships potetial. Even with non-sec build GK is quite different than other T10 BBs and its much more effective than secondary build GK.

[aboomination]

Old news...

[Aotearas]

9 hours ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Even if you build GK same with montana, its still different. You still can brawl better with it. It can push easier because it has hydro. Building it same with montana doesnt mean they are not different at all. And yes montana is a better ship in general. Thats why i use it much more than GK.

 

I have never seen a GK being effective against me. I even laugh every time i see a sec spec T10 BB against me. 

 

Like i said before, secondaries are not the main damage dealer. You can not depend on them. Main guns are. So, specing a ship not for secondaries doesnt mean that you re wasting ships potetial. Even with non-sec build GK is quite different than other T10 BBs and its much more effective than secondary build GK.

 

You're arguing about the wrong thing here.

 

I'm not denying that such builds are trollish. I'm not denying that the standard endurance captain build on BBs is a proven concept and more reliable than speccing ships for circumstancial performances..

No, they aren't tryhard carry potential, but if someone wanted tryhard carry potential they wouldn't be playing a troll build.

 

You're completely missing the point. People don't play an IFHE secondary spec GK because they want to tryhard or maximize their impact on the game, they play it because they want something different from the standard gameplay fare and because it's not only fun to play when you get into secondary range, it's also frightingly effective. It works and though it's more of a "let's wing it" method than proper established and proven protocol, it's a far cry from "retarded". Using Survivability Expert or Last Stand on a BB captain, THAT's retarded.

[ghostbuster_]

23 minutes ago, Aotearas said:

 

You're arguing about the wrong thing here.

 

I'm not denying that such builds are trollish. I'm not denying that the standard endurance captain build on BBs is a proven concept and more reliable than speccing ships for circumstancial performances..

No, they aren't tryhard carry potential, but if someone wanted tryhard carry potential they wouldn't be playing a troll build.

 

You're completely missing the point. People don't play an IFHE secondary spec GK because they want to tryhard or maximize their impact on the game, they play it because they want something different from the standard gameplay fare and because it's not only fun to play when you get into secondary range, it's also frightingly effective. It works and though it's more of a "let's wing it" method than proper established and proven protocol, it's a far cry from "retarded". Using Survivability Expert or Last Stand on a BB captain, THAT's retarded.

Those are beyond retarded. Those cant be used by healthy human beings. 

 

I still dont agree that IFHE sec build is effective.  Imo they are far away from being effective. And i still do think its complate waste of 12 captain points and its retarded. But hey thats me. Everyone can sec their ships in their own way. 

[Sub_Octavian]

9 minutes ago, ghostbuster_ said:

Those are beyond retarded. Those cant be used by healthy human beings. 

 

I still dont agree that IFHE sec build is effective.  Imo they are far away from being effective. And i still do think its complate waste of 12 captain points and its retarded. But hey thats me. Everyone can sec their ships in their own way. 

Oh well, I thought I'm supposed to have fun in the game, so I specc'ed my GK and Republique to full sec, KNOWING it's less efficient in average than typical survival build, but also KNOWING sometimes it's just cool not to play safe and gloriously rush B instead, making a hell of fireworks show for the enemy team. Turns out, I'm just an unhealthy human being...uh...thanks for letting me know 

[Aotearas]

Except that it is, the secondary HE dpm doesn't lie.

The only instance in which this build is far away from being effective is if you're ... drumroll please ... too far away from the enemy.

 

I think you're confusing efficacy with reliability.

[ghostbuster_]

8 minutes ago, Sub_Octavian said:

Oh well, I thought I'm supposed to have fun in the game, so I specc'ed my GK and Republique to full sec, KNOWING it's less efficient in average than typical survival build, but also KNOWING sometimes it's just cool not to play safe and gloriously rush B instead, making a hell of fireworks show for the enemy team. Turns out, I'm just an unhealthy human being...uh...thanks for letting me know 

Nope. That i said for survivability expert and last stand BBs. Not for sec spec BBs.

 

Like i said everyone can spec their ships the way they want. I guess everyone has fun in a different way. I have fun by maximizing my effect on the game and being succesful. For me, those builds are just waste of captain points and they make me laugh everytime i see them against me.

[Ysterpyp]

22 hours ago, xXx_Blogis_xXx said:

troll build for ranked^^

More like i want to get BBQ'd in ranked build