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muceamuc

How can I get better with the torps

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Hi, first i didn't like the dds that much but than I got a Gallant from the Christmas boxes, now I love them but my big problem is that I suck with the torps ( only 4% hit the target) 

I would use some tips form other players to get better with them, thank you.

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Use them at as short range as possible. Take into account all planes that can spot them at longer ranges and try not to lock your target with guns selected.

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The number 1 thing you should learn is how to do prediction torping. The grey indicator is a means to help you, but sometimes best ignored. Watch your target, if it starts turning predict where it will turn. Then try to lead it properly. This comes down to experience. I would suggest getting an Isokaze to get some practice since it reloads its torps quite fast and will give you more learning xp per game played. 

 

Secondly, if you can avoid it, never torp from directly ahead or behind. Try to get your targets broadside and then fire 1/4 of the indicator short. This compensates for the other guy pumping the brakes and will net you more hits.

 

Thirdly, spread your launchers out - don't fire them all at the same spot. By hitting different sections of the enemy you will minimize damage saturation and increase your chance of flooding  (best spot for flooding are bow and stern, but you should only go for one hit there). 

 

I'm in game mostly in the evenings, but quite irregularly. Should you encounter me online feel free to hit me up and we can division. Will gladly teach you the ropes a bit ;).

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31 minutes ago, muceamuc said:

Hi, first i didn't like the dds that much but than I got a Gallant from the Christmas boxes, now I love them but my big problem is that I suck with the torps ( only 4% hit the target) 

I would use some tips form other players to get better with them, thank you.

It's hard to say anything without witnessing you play (can't say what you're doing wrong when we have no idea what you're doing), but the general newbie-friendly rules would be:

 

1. Don't bother torping targets that are moving away. Sometimes it makes sense, but usually it doesn't, ESPECIALLY if the enemy is near the edge of your torping range - they'll just sail out of the range before your torps hit them.

2. The closer you can get to your target before torping, the better. Of course, the idea is to still stay safe. Notice, as with #1, that the "real" range your torps need to travel isn't the range from you to the target - it's from you to the point where the course of your target and the path of your torps intersect. A ship closing in on you will meet torps much earlier than equally distant ship going away.

3. Torps that approach your target more-or-less from the bow or more-or-less from the stern are relatively easy to dodge, especially for nimble ships. Torps that approach DIRECTLY from the bow can be surprisingly hard to dodge - but whether they even need to be dodged is mostly up to luck, so don't count on landing hits like this. The perfect torp spread is one that appears at 90 degrees from target's heading, making it as hard to dodge as possible - most ships, especially BBs, tend to eat lots of torps if caught like this.

4. Your gray torping indicator is a helpful tool but it's not your God. Look at the minimap and try to predict what the enemy might want to do - and torp according to that prediction. Getting good at that takes experience. Even if you don't expect your target to change their course, try to spread your torps a little bit. But NOT by using wide spread (wide spread is rarely a good idea): look at the indicator and spray your torps (assuming 2 launchers) so that both spread markers contain the middle line of the indicator, but only just - that way a very slight adjustment to speed/heading by your target is less likely to make your torps miss completely while lack of adjustment should still result in full-power torpedo strike.

5. Be very careful around allies if there are some closer to your target than you are. Remember that they need to stay safe from enemy fire (and torps) - they might not notice a threat from behind and even if they do notice, they might not be able to do anything about it (or pay dearly for trying to). Remember also that aforementioned allies make various maneuvers - just because your torps aren't a threat with their current heading, they might turn to avoid danger/get into more advantageous position and end up endangered by your torps.

6. Practice. Yeah, I know, not very motivational - but using your torps well relies a lot on torping instinct, so to speak - getting the feeling for how the enemies might behave and how to account for that predictions is something that should come to you with time.

 

Another thing - not really a tip about torping but something to consider - look for some unicum youtubers' videos with them playing DDs. Their commentary might help you a little. Trying to look what they're doing and emulating that a bit might help you even more.

 

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There are some useful videos about torpedo use, here's one that might be a starting point.

 

Starting your destroyer career at T6 isn't easy, by that point people have at least a basic idea of how to WASD.  You may find it useful to start one of the silver destroyer lines and learn DD play at low level. It's a bit more than just how to use your torpedoes effectively, you need to get to grips with how to use your concealment, your consumables and when to use your guns.

DD's are a lot of fun, but squishy.

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torpedo basics... have average BB in enemy team.. it helps a lot with accuracy...

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40 minutes ago, muceamuc said:

Hi, first i didn't like the dds that much but than I got a Gallant from the Christmas boxes, now I love them but my big problem is that I suck with the torps ( only 4% hit the target) 

I would use some tips form other players to get better with them, thank you.

You see the white indicator that is telling you where to align your green indicator?

Never align them when you launch torps. White liner=fake news.

The right thing to do is "visualize" in your mind where the enemy will be when the torps get to him, taking into account islands in his way, him trying to avoid giving broadsides to friendlies etc. etc.

After playing more battles it will come more naturally.

For starters stick to tiers 5 and 6 to get a better feeling.

Cheers

 

trump3.jpg

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38 minutes ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

Try to get your targets broadside and then fire 1/4 of the indicator short. This compensates for the other guy pumping the brakes and will net you more hits.

I want to add one caveat to this:

 

Smart drivers of the higher tier French BBs like to use the speed boost to avoid torps, so sending some torps ahead of the indicator can be a good thing.

 

At least if I'm driving a DD with three launchers, I like to send the last salvo well ahead when I'm shooting at a higher tier French BB.

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Gallant is a bit of a funny one to start out with, as the "Widespread" is actually roughly equivalent to other destroyer's Narrow Spread.

Gallant's greatest strength (IMHO) is her ability to single-launch torpedoes, but obviously you need some considerable experience to get to grips with how single-firing torpedoes works.

If you can get used to single-firing I dare say it has more practical use than the narrow spreads of other destroyers. It's especially fun to just delete an enemy BB that hasn't installed the WASD hack yet, or has installed it, but can't find a safe route through your random torpedo pattern.

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When the chance arises: fire first set to make target use damage control party. Then about 20 seconds later give the target another volley to make sure it's an unrepairable flood. :cap_cool:

 

Also dual purpose torps. Those are torpedos launched in such a way they have a high chance of hitting multiple targets. 

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Lots of good stuff has been said but don't get discouraged if you hit nothing some games.

 

It really does happen to everyone due to the nature of the weapon.

 

You might not even notice but sometimes someone dodging you exposes them to your team so you've helped still.

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One other thought, the Training room now has the option for moving bots, it may be worth practising with a variety of targets so you get a feel for how the torpedoes work. True the AI is rather good at evading, but you will get familiar with how to read a ships heading, speed and the sort of lead you should be using to land hits. As others have said the torp indicator is useful, but far from 100% as it doesn't take account of the target WASD haxing while the torpedoes are swimming..

You can add a few friendly bots as spotter of course. 

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5 hours ago, muceamuc said:

I suck with the torps ( only 4% hit the target) 

I would use some tips form other players to get better with them, thank you.

 

You want to get good with torps, don't play russian DDs... :cap_cool:

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I'll probably repeat a bunch of stuff, but here's what I consider:

  • Never use wide spread. Just don't. You want to learn how to aim, not roll a dice and hope for the best.
  • Be as close as safely possible when you fire, even if you have longer range. Exceptions are if you're heading in a different direction and won't get closer without delaying your destination.
  • That said, don't get spotted. Don't smoke up. Just move away. If they don't know you're there, you'll have a much higher hitrate.
  • The white indicator is a suggestion, and works for straightliners. It doesn't work for other targets.
  • If someone is turning, wait until you can figure out where they're going, unless you have very fast reloading torpedoes.
  • Remember what players do when they see your torpedoes. Aim accordingly.
  • Don't fire everything at the same spot.
    • Most of the time, you want to fire one slightly ahead of the marker, and one a little bit after it. This makes for the overall most accurate hit rate.
    • Exception is if you're very close and you're sure or if you're firing into a narrow channel.
    • If you have quad launchers or three or more launchers (including IJN torp reload), consider firing at different targets as well.
    • In Shimakaze especially, but also other destroyers with a long reload (like Benson), consider firing once, wait half a minute, and then firing the other launchers. If both volleys hit, you'll have a perma flood.
  • Torpedoes move roughly twice the speed of ships. This is variable, but as a rule of thumb it works. Consider this when you're aiming at ships moving away from you. This means you're probably not going to hit, even if they are in range. You can set them up for a cross-drop, though, or a battleship broadside.
  • On the converse, ships moving closer to you can be hit outside your torpedoes max range from the position you're firing from. See the first point, but this can help you get a stealth torpedo launch for ships with a shorter torpedo range than concealment, which includes some cruisers. I'm so used to that that I forgot I was using Torpedo Acceleration on Kamikaze, which has almost the same ranges.
  • Sending torpedoes along the edges of islands often works well enough if you're not sure about what they're going to do.
  • Don't fire your torpedoes if you're seen by an airplane. Your torpedoes will be spotted immediately.
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As others have pointed out, launching them as close as possible and learning to predict the target's moves are key for having good, or at least consistent, results with the torpedoes. You can use the indicator as a general guide but it's not revelated truth, and expecting the other guy to turn the moment they're spotted, thus launching where he would be after that, improves your chances. I went up the IJN DD line and only started to learn after reaching the old T8 Fubuki so it doesn't surprise me when other people have similar struggles.

 

Salute.

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One suggestion apropos narrow/wide spread torps that I was given on here and I've found useful occasionally: if you're reasonably confident of a target's course, you can fire two spreads of torps - the first narrow, exactly where you think the target will be when they arrive; the second, wide, ditto. The idea is that the target will react when it detects the first lot, and an increase/decrease in speed (or a turn) may take it into the path of at least one of the wide spread.

It's obviously better to get all your torps on target, but this method is helpful if even one hit will do some good...

 

Edit: another occasion where wide might be sensible (another suggestion from here) is where you fire two wide spreads in the same direction, slightly offsetting them so that the torps in the second spread are in the gaps between the first spread. This covers a similar overall arc to two narrow spreads fired adjacent to each other; the difference is that with the two narrow spreads, the torps are roughly in one line, whilst with the two wide spreads, they are two lines one behind the other. This won't work much of the time (too easy for a good player to dodge), but as an occasional thing, it can be worth a try.

 

Something else I've been told, that seems to be useful: if you think an opponent is any good, try not to use the same methodology all the time when trying to zap them with torps - the good players tend to remember what you tried the last time, and will be expecting it if you try it again soon after...

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I hope you already have it as a captain skill but take RPF. You can torp other dds contesting caps using RPF.

Most (or average) DDs will sit broadside on the edge of a cap when they are contesting and if they are not spotted they will most likely not expect torps coming their way.

 

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46 minutes ago, GarrusBrutus said:

I hope you already have it as a captain skill but take RPF. You can torp other dds contesting caps using RPF.

Most (or average) DDs will sit broadside on the edge of a cap when they are contesting and if they are not spotted they will most likely not expect torps coming their way.

 

 

It's a handy skill, but as a new DD player he's unlikely to have more than 10 points on his Captain as he got it from the Christmas boxes, Concealment Expert first of course. 

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5 hours ago, GarrusBrutus said:

I hope you already have it as a captain skill but take RPF. You can torp other dds contesting caps using RPF.

Most (or average) DDs will sit broadside on the edge of a cap when they are contesting and if they are not spotted they will most likely not expect torps coming their way.

 

No, don't give him such advice...

4 hours ago, BeauNidl3 said:

 

It's a handy skill, but as a new DD player he's unlikely to have more than 10 points on his Captain as he got it from the Christmas boxes, Concealment Expert first of course. 

THIS.

 

Radio Location (I think this is what it's currently called officially?) is a handy skill on some DDs, but there are plenty more important ones ESPECIALLY for someone not yet used to DDs. RPF is something you take for your 19-point Shima captain to round up the build with that extra bit of information that can be lethal in the hands of experienced DD player. It's NOT something to be taken by someone who just begins his great DD adventure and comes to the Forum asking for advice on how to use torps! For OP the RPF holds negligible value - additional information you can't process and act upon is useless, maybe even confusing. OP would just be wasting 4 points by taking this perk now. And that's assuming he even has a 14-point captain (the absolute minimum to even start considering RPF on a DD).

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4 hours ago, eliastion said:

Radio Location (I think this is what it's currently called officially?) is a handy skill on some DDs, but there are plenty more important ones ESPECIALLY for someone not yet used to DDs. RPF is something you take for your 19-point Shima captain to round up the build with that extra bit of information that can be lethal in the hands of experienced DD player. It's NOT something to be taken by someone who just begins his great DD adventure and comes to the Forum asking for advice on how to use torps! For OP the RPF holds negligible value - additional information you can't process and act upon is useless, maybe even confusing. OP would just be wasting 4 points by taking this perk now. And that's assuming he even has a 14-point captain (the absolute minimum to even start considering RPF on a DD).

Nope. The base build for pretty much every dd i have is: 1. Preventative maintenence. 2. Last stand. 3. Survivability expert 4. Concealment Expert. 

 

I run rpf on pretty much all of the Americans, Japanese and pan Asians. It is useful to take it with the 14th point as it will help even early and OP can get used to it in a more forgiving environment. The second 3 point skill is a matter of choice depending on the ship, the 19th should always be adrenaline rush. 

 

One thing I would also recommend is to really think about if using the range upgrade (the one you unlock with xp) is worth it. I forgo this on a lot of dds since they don't need more gun range and the only thing you will accomplish is increasing your spotting radius after firing (say you kill a low hp dd and the next guy is 12km away. Without the upgrade you should go stealth immediately again on most dds).

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The white torpedo prediction lines are if the ship remains on the same heading and speed.   That works fine in lower tier games where players have not learnt to deal with torps (and some players never learn) by varying speed and/or  direction.

 

I know it's been mentioned before but you could send some torps at the predicted location but also send some behind and and advance of the predicted line.   The Gallant can fire single torps so you can vary the direction of torps easier than if you can only send a single or double set of torps to send.

 

Not all torps in-game are the same - they vary in speed from 50 knots to 70 knots (I think some go up to 75 knots).    The faster torps get to the target faster than the slower ones and can be harder to avoid as they are faster.

 

In-game you need to be aware of the spotting range of different DDs - some of my IJN DDs can get this down to 5.4km while the Russian DDs won't get anywhere near that.   One thing I will try and do with a stealthy DD is to not smoke up to hide in the smoke (especially if you've not been spotted - it's just a marker that tells other DD players that is where to send torps or where a DD may be.   The smoke means that it's hard to support  a DD as the enemies are not being spotted.

 

Even if you don't hit anything with your torps you can help the team by keeping the enemy spotted and you still get some XP for spotting (when they are hit by your team).

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1 hour ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

Nope. The base build for pretty much every dd i have is: 1. Preventative maintenence. 2. Last stand. 3. Survivability expert 4. Concealment Expert. 

 

I run rpf on pretty much all of the Americans, Japanese and pan Asians. It is useful to take it with the 14th point as it will help even early and OP can get used to it in a more forgiving environment. The second 3 point skill is a matter of choice depending on the ship, the 19th should always be adrenaline rush. 

That base build is very solid. I'm not sure there's any DD that won't do well taking that one.

 

Adrenaline Rush I often take as the fifth skill. It's just so useful, in particular for the IJN DDs, since they're often not detected, and can play with low health for entire games without any serious repercussions. It's one of the most useful skills in the game, period.

 

Almost all IJN DDs get Torpedo Armament Expertise. Exceptions are Tachibana, Akizuki, and a few people build Yuugumo as a gunboat instead (but I wouldn't recommend that to someone who isn't very experienced).


Russian DDs do well with Advanced Fire Training. A few of them can skip Concealment Expert in favour of it. AFT doesn't work well for other DDs, since their arcs aren't that good. The IJN DDs do have good arcs, and can work with it, but are mostly better off with a torpedo focused build. Lastly, if you really want to build an AA DD, pick it. Not on the recommended list, though.

 

Radio Location (a.k.a. RPF) is something you have to be good at to use properly, but it can help anyway. It's extra information that's very valuable in some circumstances, in particular for battles with fewer ships.

 

Instead of RL you can go with three T3 skills, since there are many useful ones there. Survivability Expert, as mentioned, is the overall best pick. Torpedo Armament Expertise, as mentioned, is good for torpedo boats. Basic Fire Training and Demolition Expert are good for all gunboats (BFT is for fighting DDs and AA, and DE is for setting fire to larger ships). Superintendent is good for pretty much all DDs as well. Vigilance is decent, but not as good as the rest. For gunboats, this leaves a point over for Priority Target.

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1 hour ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

I run rpf on pretty much all of the Americans, Japanese and pan Asians. It is useful to take it with the 14th point as it will help even early and OP can get used to it in a more forgiving environment. The second 3 point skill is a matter of choice depending on the ship, the 19th should always be adrenaline rush.

RPF is hard to use and 99% of RPF-equipped enemies I meet are laughably useless with it.

Things like SE on any high-ish tier DD, TAE on torpboats, BFT on DD-hunting gunboats, DE on rain-HE-from-smoke/afar gunboats - all of these are just much superior to RPF unless you can utilize the latter to full potential - and a new DD player has now way in hell of being able to do that. He needs to master using his stealth and weapons and only when these become second nature does it make sense to pick up RPF as force multiplier. RPF can improve someone's already good situational awareness and positioning but for a DD newbie the skills directly enhancing ship performance are just much more valuable.

 

1 hour ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

One thing I would also recommend is to really think about if using the range upgrade (the one you unlock with xp) is worth it. I forgo this on a lot of dds since they don't need more gun range and the only thing you will accomplish is increasing your spotting radius after firing (say you kill a low hp dd and the next guy is 12km away. Without the upgrade you should go stealth immediately again on most dds).

That's a thing to consider on American DDs, yes, but not really on the others. I actually tried a short range build on my Akizuki, for a time - and she seemed created for it, what with her bad shell arcs (long range, short range she has freaking railguns) and DD-hunting as her primary role. Found myself missing the range pretty often while the times when I just barely escaped detection were few and far between.

American DDs are a bit of a special case as their natural range is pretty good and they struggle to hit anything that even tries to move at these ranges already.

 

1 hour ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

The base build for pretty much every dd i have is: 1. Preventative maintenence. 2. Last stand. 3. Survivability expert 4. Concealment Expert. 

#2 and #4 are pretty much mandatory.

#1 can be swapped for PT (actually, I'd recommend this for any experienced DD player on ships where you expect to use your guns and get spotted from time to time - the additional info is precious)

#3 is... debatable. There are plenty really good t3 skills for DDs, depending on the ship and playstyle

 - BFT for DD hunting (and, to lesser extent, HE spamming)

 - DE for HE spamming

 - TAE for torping

 - SI if you rely on consumables a lot and find yourself short on them almost every battle

SE is certainly a strong skill, especially on squishy high tier DDs (say, Harekaze...) but I'd rarely pick it as the first 3-pointer. The choice here depends a lot on the ship and your preferred playstyle, though. Also, no matter what you choose, you probably won't rest on just one 3-point skill (of course after you pick the necessary CE when the captain hits 10 points.

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