Would an HE-only cruiser be effective?

[SeaWolf7]

I have to say no on this one. Ap is just to essential for dealing damage to broadside targets..

1. say goodbye to citadels...

2. how many threads from Fustrated BB players raging on this forum can can you handle?....

3. total rebalance of damage mechanics would lead to nerfs buffs etc to everything (changes in captain skills and so on....)

 

ps . number 2 would increase my weekly alcohol content alone....

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

[invicta2012]

Krispy Kreme's AP is actually quite good against IJN and RN light cruisers... Machine gunning your opponent's citadel is not easily ignored. Better players know that those citadels aren't actually doing that much damage but the psychological effect of being hit every 0.5 seconds is quite strong. 

 

[Mr_Tayto]

On 5/8/2018 at 9:14 PM, ColonelPete said:

It would be bad game design as AP only cruisers.

 

When a cruiser shows you broadside, you want AP. That even applies to BB in some situations.

 

AP only cruiser have trouble dealing with angled targets at long range, which should be fought with HE.

I disagree.

 

As I assume you're talking about RN CLs, not having HE is balanced by better AP, and as a result you are forced to play closer to the enemy. This works against CAs, BBs and is perfect for anti-DD work, so long as you canstay out of BB gunsights.

 

As it stands, to me at least, RN and KM ships have divergent playstyles from the 'normal' long range HE spamming of the other three trees. This is a good thing. Another HE spammer is boring.

[SeaWolf7]

38 minutes ago, invicta2012 said:

. Better players know that those citadels aren't actually doing that much damage but the psychological effect of being hit every 0.5 seconds is quite strong. 

 

errrr sorry?

[ColonelPete]

4 minutes ago, Mr_Tayto said:

I disagree.

 

As I assume you're talking about RN CLs, not having HE is balanced by better AP, and as a result you are forced to play closer to the enemy. This works against CAs, BBs and is perfect for anti-DD work, so long as you canstay out of BB gunsights.

 

As it stands, to me at least, RN and KM ships have divergent playstyles from the 'normal' long range HE spamming of the other three trees. This is a good thing. Another HE spammer is boring.

It is not about balance.

 

It is about a game design that limits choice and that only works by implementing magic AP shells that are far superior than anything in the game.

 

If you spam only HE in other ships that is your choice and your fault. Other people can get into better positions and decide to use AP. This rewards good play.

[Mr_Tayto]

1 hour ago, ColonelPete said:

It is not about balance.

 

It is about a game design that limits choice and that only works by implementing magic AP shells that are far superior than anything in the game.

 

If you spam only HE in other ships that is your choice and your fault. Other people can get into better positions and decide to use AP. This rewards good play.

I don't see it as a limitation of choice, I see it as a unique playstyle which rewards bravery and map awareness.

 

And we both know that, given the choice of distance and AP, most potatoes would sit at the back spamming HE. We even see this in BBs now. What would be the reward matching the risk of getting within 10km of a BB if that was the case?

[StringWitch]

On 09/05/2018 at 10:55 AM, GhostRider_24 said:

Do we need more dedicated HE spammers? 

 

I think this would just cause more camping really something which badly needs addressed. 

 

If I camp is because of all the Californium-252 tipped AP shells flying around. Between DCP II being obligatory, damage control upgrades, India Yankee signal, captain skills, and fire time reduction for cruiser/destroyer I really don't care about fires, and IFHE will grind me down but not instakill me; I can get away from it. But there's absolutely nothing to prevent a citadel explosion from being spotted in the open for 10 seconds... aside from not being in the open, of course. Now that happens rarely, but it certainly happens, and what many people seek to do in games is take control by mitigating the odds of such occurances. The game would have to make camping an untenable way of controlling engagements. Unfortunately making Ocean the only map is the only way I can think to really do that.

[Dosenoeffner82]

Well the first question asked is simple to answer...yes a HE only Ship would be easily viable. Looking at some of my Cruiser Games in Zao and Hindenburg, I would say that it does not need any special Buffs to work, since between 30 and 50% of my Games in these ships are lacking the opportunity to use AP or the opportunity is so short, that by the time of switching, its gone again (Be it because of the long Zao Reload or the need for perfect Broadsides of German AP).

Now u could say, that those Games are ones without heavy influence...but that does not have to be true! U can still do heavy damage against DDs, hurt angled Cruisers a lot and u can Kite multiple Enemy BBs. Shure no 20-30k Salvo instantly crippling or killing an enemy cruiser, but thats not always necessary.

So i could easily imagine a german light cruiser line following the Nürnberg  that possibly gets the built in German IFHE with some good balistics longer Range and quite maneuverable, wich plays more like a bigger Khaba than a smaller Desmo.

 

Greets!

[CptLt_Andre]

my 155mm-Mogami - it's super effective

[Spunyarn]

I voted for fifty-fifty. Same reasons as people have said, can get by with HE a lot of the time (especially if you have high shell arcs and are making it rain fire) but if there is a vulnerable broadside to be had then the lack of AP would hurt. Arlios video seems to illustrate:

 

(Worchester rhymes with Rooster, so the NA peeps took it a step forward.)

 

Lots and lots and lots and.... and lots of HE from behind islands and into Destroyers but, as has been seen with the Atlanta, if someone comes into close range then with AP the number of citadels sky-rockets while their health plummets. And without AP those Des Moines would have survived coming around the islands at point blank range... though actually that might be an argument in favour of HE only if it means that ship can be dislodged. Depends whether you're the one cooking battleships or the battleships being cooked. 

[invicta2012]

8 hours ago, SeaWolf7 said:

errrr sorry?

Max damage from KKs AP shell is 2500.

You need quite a lot of citadels for them to be devastating.... Its not like some BB chucking 10k shells about. 

[_LordLucan]

can we have a free camo for them with this texture ?

 

 

[SeaWolf7]

22 hours ago, invicta2012 said:

Max damage from KKs AP shell is 2500.

You need quite a lot of citadels for them to be devastating.... Its not like some BB chucking 10k shells about. 

..sorry yeah the donut slinger I forgot. Cant believe that's a premium V ship....

[invicta2012]

It's a fun ship, actually, and much under-rated. Good at burning BBs and Destroyers - gets a bit out matched by some of the bigger cruisers which have the advantage in speed, guns and armour, but as a fleet ship (teaming with a BB) she's handy.