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TomBombardil

Worried CV Rework

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Allright.

 

I, TomBombardil (CV'ish main, since early CBT), am worried about CV rework.

 

I have watched, struggeld and "excepted" that WG keeps on shitting on CV and CV "Ballance".

Not only have they keept buffing AA, intruduce % wise more AA ship (% even more "AA no fly zones"), and nerfed CV. They also sold nerfs as buffs. And made the UI progressingly worse.

BUT thats not why im worrierd, since i dont have a high regard for WG (let allone WGCV).

 

But THIS IS:

Year of the CVtm, CVrework is a front for:  "Year of the Console", get  CVWoWp console ready.

 

Since CV do need work (UI, AA, fighter rng, etc) All players (including CV players) agree on CV need a rework!

I suspected this wouldn't go in the direction cv players hope for in general.

But now there are "confermed" rumours: (Waterline) & Jingles.

 

Here the CV rework is being "rumourd" as making CV's to WoWp & console ready. Now i dont wanne go in to the details. but my question to the CV communatie is:

 

  1. IS there intrest for an Cohort (jointly) response or put up some jointly protests?

Can we (the CV players) make a common "cv fist" vs the WG hammer?

and is it worth the effort?

 

Best Regards,

TomBombardil

 

One of the first haka match everrhh,  

ps; this video brought me back to WoWs (quited it soon afther lauche)

& i hate lineriding, refused to do it. Still bashing about lineriding occasionally. should have know better VS aerroon

 

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I don't mind a rework adjusting some stuff here and there like AA, plane survivability, number of planes per squad etc. However, the rumours of a wowp style gameplay is kind of disturbing (if true).

 

While the current UI has its downside, i quite like it and really doubt CVs can be played any other way in a maximum 20 min match against other classes of ships. Feels wierd going into a "FPS" mode to attack ships or other planes. That's one. Then what about damage, scouting and air cover? How can a CV player do all 3 within a short span of time if it is a full on "FPS" mode kind of thing? Would the way a CV is rewarded now be different? I can't help but think of these stuff and feel abit apprehensive. Didn't get perm camo for Haku and Midway in case the rework make me stop playing CVs (Im not even bothered with Worchester's super AA. Heck, even if every ship get base 100 aa rating and defensive aa il still play CVs. But i'll be pissed at a total change in playstyle).

 

Sorry if I sidetracked from the OP. Just my 2-cents on the rework though.

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[ITA_C]
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I will join every pressure group that promote cv players interest im actually worried about what rework may become in these days i find challenging only to play cv's

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I would wait until we get more information on what the rework will be like but if it's really going to be 1 squadron at a time, I wonder if there would be any point of using fighter squadrons since you wouldn't be able to do any offensive attacks to ships other than spotting them or people will simply have a mutual agreement not to use fighters and go with strike aircrafts, this really wouldn't be a solution for the problem.

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Well from all the small leaks that were introduced I am worried as hell... Since from the words of anonymous CCs, they were able to play the reworked version on the CC summint and it came down to this:

 

People who don't reguraly play CVs loved it.

 

People who play CVs, hated it...

 

So I am in.

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I think that CV rework will be pointed out to be like WOWP game style i.e more similar to other ship play style ...unfortunately I think that it is done deal and that CVs will seize to exist in today form...It is no wonder that majority will like the change as CV play now demand more RTS then arcade skills...and like it or not WOWS is arcade game which does not involve much brain (ofcourse there is also console questions and preparations)....for me 99% if they change CVs like i think they will, is a deal breaker for playing CVs...once I said if I wanted to play WOWP I would play WOWP not WOWS...too bad....but all is pointing out that this will happen. In the year of CVs WG did moves which only caused people to stop playing CVs...few months ago it was no problem to find an opponent in almost any tear now it is not the case...

 

Considering pressure as there are maybe 5-10% of population who play CVs i do not think that they would care to any pressure... also CVs are probbably the most bullied class in game. You can be great in every aspect in game and still get reported so...it is like it is...

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It really is not important how the details of the rework will look like as we already know the idea behind it. The obvious aim is to reduce the overall impact of CV as means of reducing the impact of skill gap between CV players. Dumbing down the class to make it more accessible and less important. The final nerf hammer. And there are too many whiners and to little CV players to stop it I'm afraid.

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I find the idea of a "pressure group" for CVs at best cute and at worst insidious. I know people are upset but on here it's the same dozen or so posters every time. Fortunately, the game does not revolve around top 1%-ers who think they speak for the whole CV player base. In the nicest possible way, I hope that no matter how loudly you scream you don't get your way to derail a change that is really necessary and could be really great. There are times when a developer should listen to the community. This is not one of them. This is the time for WG to do what they think is right and have the balls to do it through the backslash.

 

Because the game needs it. CV play is... OK at the moment. I do it sometimes and I can deal with it. But I very quickly get bored because of how feast or famine it is. And it is really out of place in the rest of the game, both in skill set and flavour. When I'm playing CV I feel like I'm missing out on the game, the graphics, the atmosphere, just stuck in my abstract view trying not to get out-clicked. I may as well be playing space invaders. I want atmosphere and immersion, but also fun and less stressful gameplay, and CVs are basically the opposite of that at the moment. I think what they're proposing is very interesting and could be exactly what we need.

 

So I'm just looking forward to whatever they do, the change will be a breath of fresh air at the very least. I think the level of negative reaction this has caused, with no details or personal experience of the change, is premature to say the least.

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3 hours ago, Horin728 said:

 

People who don't reguraly play CVs loved it.

 

People who play CVs, hated it...

 

Since far more people don't play much CV then this is only a good thing right?  Many more people loving and playing CV.  Look forward to it!

 

18 minutes ago, VC381 said:

I find the idea of a "pressure group" for CVs at best cute and at worst insidious. I know people are upset but on here it's the same dozen or so posters every time. Fortunately, the game does not revolve around top 1%-ers who think they speak for the whole CV player base. In the nicest possible way, I hope that no matter how loudly you scream you don't get your way to derail a change that is really necessary and could be really great. There are times when a developer should listen to the community. This is not one of them. This is the time for WG to do what they think is right and have the balls to do it through the backslash.

 

This pretty much. 

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Well pretty much all the changes that were made to CVs were made to discourage people from playing CVs... 

 

You might ask why?

 

Well since there is a huge rework and gameplay change coming, the less people are playing now, the less people will be upset when the rework comes...

 

It's a self fufilling prohecy really, WG is saying that the CV pop is not growing, while they are actively gimping its growth... First by removing manual drops from t4 and t5 and then adding ships with gradually more AA (looking at you Worcester!).

 

@BuccaneerBill Alienating your playerbase is not a good move either way.

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control only  1 squad?? Then how the FOCH I'm supposed to do a hammer/anvil/scissors attack? All of them requieres coordination between two or more squads.

Seriously, I don't like the idea and where this is heading to...

 

I know there is little to no possibility to revert that massive nerf on carriers (like when they did with removing manual drops from low tier carriers, it was an stupid idea because as I said that made clubbing seals much easier, at least for me).

The main reason of why I play Wows it's due the aircraft carriers. I like being useful to the team. And yeah, there are lots of stuff which are made to discourage CVs like the "no fly zones", defensive AA fire, and even being able to use your AA guns inside a smoke screen without being spotted. Now with Worchester, only one carrier per side from tier VIII and above...

If they want to make it more arcade and easier to understand they should take example from Battlestations pacific. The AA system there was quite good. You could focus your attention on main cannons (and use the secondaries too) or use your AA guns (also torpedoes and deepth charges). If you were using your main guns the AA guns would automatically firing at enemy planes, but at a reduced rate of fire. If you change to AA guns you could use them at fire rate, manually firing at the planes, and the main guns would still target and fire at the nearest target. In that way everybody could defend from an enemy Air raid, but at the penalty of not being able to effectively deal with other ships while you use the AA.

 

As for aircraft carriers, you could use the strategic mode and order squads but also you could take control of a single plane and even give orders from it.

 

Nevertheless WG will nerf carriers (unless they make them interesting like the example above). So, my question is, what will happen with my Kaga and Saipan?? I really hope at least they keep the old system with them.

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They will without a shadow of a doubt dumb it down chaps. :cap_tea: 

 

They have said words to that effect all along including Clan battles when they thought the skill gap is too big.  Only way in their eyes to bring it  level will be to dumb it down somehow.  They started with tier 4-5 CV's anyway which has always been dodgy in my books (like i said back then).

 

Am i worried? Yes and No.  I'm worried that i might not play CV's again IF i know that all those skills, tricks and knowledge we all learn doesn't matter a jot because it's easy mode anyway with little skill involved.  I would not play CV's now if they only had auto mode with no manual aim or strafe. 

 

But people are afrade of change.  I'm not and will greet the change with open arms...But that's not to say i'm not going to tell the chap "No thanks, ill play this instead".

 

Lets just see what they do.  Our opinions matter not. 

 

You know what, it's like we are the victim of our own success. 

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2 hours ago, VC381 said:

I find the idea of a "pressure group" for CVs at best cute and at worst insidious. I know people are upset but on here it's the same dozen or so posters every time. Fortunately, the game does not revolve around top 1%-ers who think they speak for the whole CV player base. In the nicest possible way, I hope that no matter how loudly you scream you don't get your way to derail a change that is really necessary and could be really great. There are times when a developer should listen to the community. This is not one of them. This is the time for WG to do what they think is right and have the balls to do it through the backslash.

 

Because the game needs it. CV play is... OK at the moment. I do it sometimes and I can deal with it. But I very quickly get bored because of how feast or famine it is. And it is really out of place in the rest of the game, both in skill set and flavour. When I'm playing CV I feel like I'm missing out on the game, the graphics, the atmosphere, just stuck in my abstract view trying not to get out-clicked. I may as well be playing space invaders. I want atmosphere and immersion, but also fun and less stressful gameplay, and CVs are basically the opposite of that at the moment. I think what they're proposing is very interesting and could be exactly what we need.

 

So I'm just looking forward to whatever they do, the change will be a breath of fresh air at the very least. I think the level of negative reaction this has caused, with no details or personal experience of the change, is premature to say the least.

 

I wonder if you consider the implication this has on CVs and the game itself. As much as you or others might find it boring and "separated" from the main game, the truth of the matter is that its not. I mean for example when you play a CAs do you mindlessly click on targets and lob shells at them? No, you get into a good position where you can deal the most damage or have an avenue of escape. Same with CVs. You can't mindless click on targets. Granted CVs involved more tactics, but whatever you do have an effect on the game just like the other classes.

 

A wowp style may appeal to you or as the CCs put it, the people who are not interested in the current form of CV game style, but I believe that it negative affects the game. It essentially removes one class from the game, that of CV. CVs are defined by there squadrons of planes. The main difference between CV and other classes is its ability to be where its needed. A wowp style game play removes this major ability given the micromanagement needed as you pilot your plane to sink a BB.

 

The backlash against CV players will be even worse now. "CV f*&#  you why are you not spotting"  "Oh I was trying to pilot my torpedo bombers to sink that BB". Similarly spending 3 minutes flying your fighters to say D7 to spot a DD feels abit ridiculous. A "FPS" style of gameplay is not the solution in making CVs fun. From a naive perspective, sure, it'll be fun. But at the same time it will utterly destroy the purpose of having CVs in game in the first place.

 

WG has to first educate people about CVs, its exact strength and weaknesses. People still have serious misconceptions about CVs, which should be clarified. There are some people who think that CVs are some invincible mythical beast of old. Then at least have some tutorials™. That will be a start.

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When WG says they want to make cvs easier to play with and make them not that useful on the battlefield I imagine they will do something similar to cvs in WOWS Blitz, where literally it's a point and click thing:

 

 

 

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If they're going that way, just give me joystick control.
They'll regret that decision greatly when I tryhard to the max and pin point AP bombs on magazine dumps and devastate DDs with accurate, non RNG-reliant 1000lbs bomb drops :Smile_trollface:

 

 

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@Horin728 it's quite normal for a game developer planning a major re-work on something they feel they've messed up on to nerf it first to reduce population. We've been waiting a bit too long but the pattern makes sense.

 

@pra3y I know you need tactics in every class to have game impact but it's about pace. In any other class I can right click and watch my ship do that awesome turn, or press Z and follow my shells, or generally admire in a quiet moment. In CVs there's no respite like that, you're playing on a glorified minimap with full attention required and seeing numbers come up from that drop you had to immediately look away from to do something else... just isn't satisfying. I genuinely don't mind dying early in a game with CVs so I can actually watch the strikes unfold. I want that level of immersion when I'm the one controlling the squads as well!

 

And also you and others have built this fantasy of exactly what it will be like and how awful it will be based on a rumour and an out of context quote, with everything else filled in by your imagination. We don't know if "1 squad at a time" will be WoWp style or something different. We don't even know if it actually means one squad airborne at a time, or several in the air but you have to jump from one to another, or something else entirely. We don't know if CVs will have more or less game impact in the new system, we don't know anything. They could be different but stronger. People are just resisting "different" for the sake of it.

 

I'm not even sure about the "dumbed down" aspect. It's just a different skill set, but you said yourself other ships require skill anyway. So why will new CVs magically not require skill? They'll just require a more similar type of skill to the other classes.

 

Finally, the reason I'm excited about a simplified interface is because it opens up the possibility of controllable planes on other ships. It opens up potential hybrids, depending on how they do it.

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1 hour ago, Sargento_YO said:

When WG says they want to make cvs easier to play with and make them not that useful on the battlefield I imagine they will do something similar to cvs in WOWS Blitz, where literally it's a point and click thing:

 

 

 

 

That reminds me that Jingles mentioned the new CV gameplay being getting to aim certain parts of a ship when he came back from Russia, which kinda does sound familiar to WoWS blitz.

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1 hour ago, Sargento_YO said:

When WG says they want to make cvs easier to play with and make them not that useful on the battlefield I imagine they will do something similar to cvs in WOWS Blitz, where literally it's a point and click thing:

 

 

 

Let's be honest, whole WoWs Blitz is point/aim and click. Hitting DDs as BB even is pretty simple, aiming torps is easy as hell, you can fully melee all ships as DD because you wont die before you shoot your torps and even more....WoWs Blitz is simple life, almost how the game would be needed for the red-42% wr-players to make sure they score not that badly.

 

Anyways, as long as we dont have any real details, creating panic is useless, we can only speculate right now. I decide to be optimistic and having faith in WG. Don't ruin my Cv's! I want to play all classes, so dont screw it up.

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Well they are trying to make CVs more interesting to play....it's better to have a happy majority and an unhappy minority than the other way around.

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@VC381 Sure, nothing has been confirmed, thats why i said "if true" in my first post. 

 

Its just if you think about it logically, the current system works and is perhaps the only way a CV can work in wows currently. Just because you or others can't appreciate how a ship is played doesnt mean others can't, can't they? If you can't feel the excitement while playing a CV then CV is perhaps not for you, just like how a ship you like may not excite others. The ship doesnt have to suit everyone.

 

It doesnt open up any potential. What potential is there? "FPS" style of controlling a plane from tone and carrying out a torpedo drop on an enemy ship, how efficient is it in terms of the current gameplay model?  In the end you still have to rely on an "RTS" style of control, just whether its a simple or complex one. It reflects on the grand scale of things as well. An "FPS" style of cv play can be used as an add on/complement to an RTS model to make it more enjoyable/"interactive" and given more options, but makes the gameplay less efficient. So nah its not resisting because something us different but rather it makes no sense. WG's track record when dealing with CV isnt particularly stellar as well. 

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2 hours ago, domen3 said:

Well they are trying to make CVs more interesting to play....it's better to have a happy majority and an unhappy minority than the other way around.

Not to mention more CV players that are actually any good at their job would be a win for all concerned. Nowadays a lot of them (including myself the few times I played them) can't even beat the PVE bots as CV drivers..

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11 hours ago, lafeel said:

Not to mention more CV players that are actually any good at their job would be a win for all concerned. Nowadays a lot of them (including myself the few times I played them) can't even beat the PVE bots as CV drivers..

Then try using tutorials, if I may, I recommend Femennenlys series of CV tutorials, they explain practically everything in reasonable manner.

 

This is the same thing CV players have been saying for years - CVs need a good tutorial. And there is even a basis for it in the operations and training rooms... 

 

@VC381 I know why are they doing it and why it makes sense, but using ""low and not growing CV population" as an argument, when WG is actively discouraging players from joining and playing that class is simply stupid...

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21 hours ago, lafeel said:

Not to mention more CV players that are actually any good at their job would be a win for all concerned. Nowadays a lot of them (including myself the few times I played them) can't even beat the PVE bots as CV drivers..

 

But why cant you beat them? Is it:

 

1) Need more practice

2) Just don't like the style of play  

3) Don't like the look (Birdseye)

4) Not good at muti tasking

5) all of the above

 

I am diabolical in a DD.  You stick me in a DD and i struggle to know which way to go never mind win the game. My long range torp aim is bad, i cant think like the other player like i can in a CV and i make the wrong decisions all the time.  I feel like a fish out of water, doesn't feel natural. 

 

But i'm not saying that i wanna change the way it's played because i personally cant play them?

 

The reasons i'm not good in DD's is simply that i don't have:

 

1) killer instinct that comes more naturally to me in the other 3 classes.  

2) Don't enjoy the style of play.  If i really wanted to get better I would and could but ill be ice skating up the hill from the start as i simply don't enjoy them as much.

 

But i understand that others do and are very good at it.  So why don't people think the same way about CV's?  I just don't understand it.  :Smile_amazed:

 

Ok......

 

Now if i remove everything I know about CV play and that i too cant play CV's them then only 3 things spring to mind to why i wouldn't like it:

 

1)  I don't like the style of play (like the DD's)

2) I don't like the View

3) I find them too hard to be good in them

 

If it's 1) then fine, pick another Ship line to grind.  Like i do.

 

If it's 2) then fine.   If you chaps are telling me that 3/4 players who play this game feels the same way then WG has to and will do something.  It's a Money making game at the end of the day and if the majority of people say they don't like it then fine.  I will tip my hat and say " well i like the way it is but understand that 3/4 don't so fair cop". But Art in WOT is different and hasn't changed the view since it began :Smile_hiding: 

 

BUT...If if it's 3) then simply get gud and learn to play them like any other class, like i have to in DD's.

 

My gut instinct says that people just don't like muti tasking and don't wanna learn how to play the class, period.  

 

 

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Just now, Redcap375 said:

 

But why cant you beat them? Is it:

 

1) Need more practice

2) Just don't like the style of play  

3) Don't like the look (Birdseye)

4) Not good at muti tasking

5) all of the above

 

 

 

2, 3, and 4 mostly. If I wanted to play a RTS I'd play a RTS, not a carrier in WoWS.

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Just now, lafeel said:

2, 3, and 4 mostly. If I wanted to play a RTS I'd play a RTS, not a carrier in WoWS.

 

Then sir, is that enough to change the whole style of play because you personally don't like the RTS but except that other do?  Or do you simply say "it's not for me" and let it live?

 

Truly interested to hear what you think :cap_tea:

 

Do you think it's enough to change the whole layout of CV play because you don't like the RTS style? 

 

Hope you can answer honestly and don't have a hidden agenda like many players do.

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