Russian Cruiser Line

[Yedwy]

I D say keep grinding the germans somhow i did other lines before them and only very recently freexped hindenburg boy was i missing out...

 

Anyways russian line - odd numbers of the line are somehat of a pain in the rear end, even numbers much nicer to handle stay at range espetially at the beginning of the match u can support caps even from 10+ km out with those railguns and u wont shoot over many islands with those flat arcs anyway, angle the best u can and try to engage from second line preferably with some bb tanking damage (i know its a myth) meant for u. When u see smoke poped in cap u ll be tempted to go close to support (espetially if u re the only radar cruiser) but extricating yourself from that endevour can be problematic since they have rather large turning circle and when Rigged for stealth not the fastest rudder and even with full stealth detection range is not great. 

 

In short russian line is all about making the most od those railguns from medium ranges 

[dCK_Ad_Hominem]

Have the Moskva unlocked, but the Yueyang had priority for the clan, so still saving credits. 

 

The line is awesome, with t6-8 being nothing short of amazing. I have to confess though that I threw over 100k free xp at the Donskoi. That thing is just horrible. Looking forward to the Moskva, I think she could be my cup of tea, especially since a slight angle on the nose lowers the chance to hit it quite well. Was glad I could test her during space battles, though it once again showed that I'm far from great in cas.

[VC381]

These ships in a nutshell: boring but effective; high damage, low-ish game impact.

 

T6 you can be aggressive in. T7 sometimes if top tier. Other than that forget it. T8 actually has great concealment, but I played it while stealthfire was still a thing which made it a completely brainless ship. Not sure how it would work these days. Sold it because I have Kutuzov, which IMO is a much better all-rounder than the main line ships.

 

T9... eh... awkward. If there was one to skip it might be this one. I haven't because I'm in no rush, will get Moskva the hard way eventually.

[T0byJug]

6 minutes ago, dCK_Ad_Hominem said:

Have the Moskva unlocked, but the Yueyang had priority for the clan, so still saving credits. 

 

The line is awesome, with t6-8 being nothing short of amazing. I have to confess though that I threw over 100k free xp at the Donskoi. That thing is just horrible. Looking forward to the Moskva, I think she could be my cup of tea, especially since a slight angle on the nose lowers the chance to hit it quite well. Was glad I could test her during space battles, though it once again showed that I'm far from great in cas.

I have all the tier X DDs last clan battles ended up in the Yueyang. Deepwater torps is not an issue as your main role is scout and Cap. As a DD in Clan you priority is NOT engaging other DDs.  And DW torps were great at jumping the ODD ships that Pushed to much...

[dCK_Ad_Hominem]

2 minutes ago, T0byJug said:

I have all the tier X DDs last clan battles ended up in the Yueyang. Deepwater torps is not an issue as your main role is scout and Cap. As a DD in Clan you priority is NOT engaging other DDs.  And DW torps were great at jumping the ODD ships that Pushed to much...

Thanks Tobi, I'm well aware of how she is played ;).

[HaachamaShipping]

2 minutes ago, VC381 said:

These ships in a nutshell: boring but effective; high damage, low-ish game impact.

 

T6 you can be aggressive in. T7 sometimes if top tier. Other than that forget it. T8 actually has great concealment, but I played it while stealthfire was still a thing which made it a completely brainless ship. Not sure how it would work these days. Sold it because I have Kutuzov, which IMO is a much better all-rounder than the main line ships.

 

T9... eh... awkward. If there was one to skip it might be this one. I haven't because I'm in no rush, will get Moskva the hard way eventually.

I'd not say low impact. For a cruiser, they can have pretty ok impact. Especially T8+, with radar. But already a Shchors has pretty good dpm and if left to do its work can brutalise other ships easily, especially if top tier (though with the handling, whether you are up vs New Mexico, Nelson or Izumo, you basically play it similarly and likely get similar results). Unlike for example ships like the Algerie, which really lacks impact, as it lacks raw damage and needs fires. 

[NicramDuel]

I play the Russian Cruisers as my main, and generally enjoy them. 

 

As others have mentioned, with the exception of the Kirov (there's a necessary difficult one in every branch - luckily here this case happens early), all are exceptional and actually fun to play (generally). The main hardship is that you need at least a 10-point captain to get any of these ships to start working well, and 14 to make you feel comfortable with them (the order you choose CE or IFHE is up to your playstyle - except for the Chapayev where CE is actually what I'd strongly suggest). 

 

Budyonny: A breath of fresh air after the Kirov: You'll have good range, decent fires with influential damage - while finally being able to have actual range between you and your foes.

Shchors: Even more firepower: You get an extra turret of 3 shots/7.5 seconds, and with an even higher fire chance than Bud, you can take the Budyonny's experience to a new level. Use AP only on rare occasions, this is the typical he-spammer.

Chapayev: Perhaps the true "top of the branch". She can handle well, and you'll have approximately the same experience in her as with the last two boats - the real new thing about her, is that not only does she get the radar (at hull B), but if Concealment Expert is already learned by your captain, you can actually sneak up (!) on prey without being detected! Your radar's range is 11.7 km, while if fully stealthed, your detectability will be 10.2 km. What this translates into is that you're basically a DD-killer whenever the time comes - and as soon as you are detected by anything in the open while in stealth mode, well...they're dead. Pop radar, aim, win.:) And if no such thing is occuring at the moment, you have a whopping 7 km safety zone to hide back into whenever you're in trouble: your guns can reach 17.3 km's range. 

Donskoi: To be honest, this is an AMAZING ship - and even though it is with her that I've produced - by FAR - my worst win and damage ratios in high tiers, this is due to the single reason of a truly cancerous early-2018 meta. And the main problem is the BB epidemic. Not that battleships mean too much of a problem to handle in general: By this time you've already learned to kite, fiddle with your propulsion, and perhaps even adapted a non-potato aim. And not even the fact that there's many of them. You can still choose your own engagements as a Donskoi, and you can do so from a range of over 20km (!) with the right module. The main issue, in fact... is not even the enemy. It's the typical reta...potato BB's of your own team that generally lead to your early demise. Without exaggerating, in over half of my games with this boat, I was being the primary (and only possible!) target of the enemies whenever I opened fire from maximum range. The average BB player strongly believes that a scratch on his paint is equal to a 9/9 citadel salvo against him, that he can do 300k damage and carry the team from 22-25-27 km's range, and the mere mention of bow-tanking is a sin in their eyes. And let me tell you, as a t9, you'll regularly be sent into t10 battles, in general, approximately 70% of the time. With 80-90% of the playerbase prefering safety over fun and performance, you'll have a hard time while being the only potential target for the enemy. But if you adapt to the general cowardice, and very carefully choose your locations and engagements (a lesson I've learned too late, only in the last approx. 100k exp's in the boat), or if you're just lucky to have a single BB who has balls, you'll have amazing performances! Your armour scheme will finally feel a bit more safe, and you'll also have torpedoes with 8 km range to finally be a viable form of countermeasures. And the radar is still a thing. Generally, do the same thing as you did in t6-t7 (and what you usually do with a non-hyperagressive Chapa): for the first half of the battle, stay at long range, and make sure you aim well (low rates of fire and rounds compared to earlier ships) - and move in as the battle gradually progresses. 

Moskva: Actually a very strong ship, with a brutal 22.6 km range - you can practically shoot throughout the game. You actually have a lot of options to play her: either camp or be on a move at max range. If you're focused, ALWAYS turn into your attacker from long range, and never show broadside. If well angled (25-30° compared to your enemy), you'll shrug off very large amounts of incoming fire. Once you're locked in battle, don't really rely on your otherwise amazing speed - acting like a BB is what worked for me the most: nose angled (perfect bowtanking will get you citadelled like a broadside minotaur), slowly back-and-forth-movement, and start fires on whatever you can. Also, keep an eye out for vulnerable cruisers - HE-spamming is not all this beauty has to offer. Use AP, score some citadels, then keep burning the BB's. When stationary, use hydro, and you'll generally be fine, as long as, again... as long as you're not the only one in range of the 7-8 enemy ships that have clustered up in front of you, while your own BB's are enjoying their safety at your expense from 2-3 km's behind you (with most of them not shooting anyways, lol). From my experience the Moskva is actually very good at shutting down advancing pushes and flanks in all areas apart from actually contested caps. By the time you get there, a DM or a Mino will already be in a better position, so only attempt to flush out enemy DD's early at your own risk - you won't be able to disengage the cap once you're committed: turning out/broadsiding nearly anything will mean instant death, and your backpeddling speed won't save you either with your 13.8 km detection radius. However, you'll be surprised at how many 1-on-1 fights you can handle, given the average players you'll be facing. The greatest shock will come from 1v1'ing full-hp-Yamato's...while you're out in the open, many miles from any concealing island. If the Yamato doesn't know where to aim, and keeps trying to hit your side, she's dead. And most players don't know where to aim.;) 

 

Three personal suggestions I'd like to add.  
1. RU cruisers work best as support ships, so even if it's a pain, stick within the proximity of the bulk of your BB fleet. This way exposing yourself to their generally clumsy, lazy, cowardly playstyle, but with extra focusable targets around you, who the enemy will start focusing once you've dodged a few enemy salvos and thus proved to be too difficult of a target to hit to be worth any further efforts. Be it a good spread or a simple lemming train, this is your best chance to maximize your influence on the game: hydro-spotting torps for your BB's, denying easy kills for enemy DD's, and eventually, you can take part in one or more of the main shootouts in the given game. 

2. Most RU cruisers have a decent, if not great AA defence, and can carry defensive AA fire to vastly boost this when the need comes. However, in the majority of games, there's no CV, but a lot of occasions when torps need to be spotted, or enemies will end up so close to you that hydro comes in handy in every single battle. I would strongly suggest hydro over defensive AA in any RU cruiser - I've even switched my Kutuzov to this setup recently. It really pays off - makes gameplay a lot safer, you can save much more allies than with def AA, and in some cases, you can even flush out proxy DD's and RN cruisers when your radar is already on cooldown.
3. Light up as many things as you can. If something's burning, switch to light up something else. Unless the previous target extinguished the first flames - in this case provide him with all the love you have to offer: 3-4 new kindlings should keep'em nice and warm, and serve as a great lesson to them in not to instantly reduce your damage on them...or else!  

tl;dr: Ru cruisers are among the best support vessels in the game - you excel at dealing damage and situational anti-DD manoeuvres while protecting the bulk of your fleet. If you play them well, and are always on the move, you will rarely get hit, and collective enemy focus will subside after you dodge a few salvo's (or simply shrug them off when in Moskva). Don't over-extend, don't be that single target for the enemy (unless in Moskva, Moskva actually fares well in most cases), and definitely...NEVER go alone (unless in Moskva- there you can sometimes get that to work if you're on the right map to do a safe solo-flank, like on tears of the desert or sleeping giant). 10 or 14 skills into the captain with CE and IFHE (unless in...you guessed it! Moskva! She doesn't need IFHE unless you really hate the Montana's)... and you'll be fine!:)  

[Hyperion84]

3 hours ago, Paimentaja said:

Yes that is true. And with that turning circle radius, no matter how fast your rudder is, the ship will not be very responsive. There is also a factor called "drag" "drift" that applies in higher speeds. Some ships has a lot of drift and therefore their turning in higher speeds is even worse than the numbers tell you.

Yup Soviet destroyers seems to have a nasty habit of drifting due to what I am assuming is their great speed and overall length. 

I "only" slightly played with Kirov which I couldn't get to work at the time, but I did notice it were prone to drifting also, though not on the same level as the speed boats (Soviet destroyers).

 

I love the gun boat style very much, so I might just be taking a look on the cruiser line again, maybe skipping past Kirov and straight to Budyonny 

[Paimentaja]

20 minutes ago, Hyperion84 said:

Yup Soviet destroyers seems to have a nasty habit of drifting due to what I am assuming is their great speed and overall length. 

I "only" slightly played with Kirov which I couldn't get to work at the time, but I did notice it were prone to drifting also, though not on the same level as the speed boats (Soviet destroyers).

 

I love the gun boat style very much, so I might just be taking a look on the cruiser line again, maybe skipping past Kirov and straight to Budyonny 

Kirov is excellent. Yes it is sluggish and made out of cardboard but the guns are insane. Those are btw the same guns you will get with the Donskoi, ofc with little different attributes (reload mainly), but basically the same. (And in Molotov) Kirov will teach you the pace and positioning of the USSR cruiser line and is a valuable lesson to be learned in order to be effective with the rest of the line. Schcschzchcshorscshhsch will continue where the Bud left things. Chap will be more or less the same, but will get tehh radar with B hull and that somewhat changes the game (or more like capabilities and "responsibilities"), but the principals remain the same even with the Donskoi.

[WeGreedy]

25 minutes ago, Paimentaja said:

Kirov is excellent. [...] Those are btw the same guns you will get with the Donskoi, ofc with little different attributes (reload mainly), but basically the same.

Kirov's ballistics are worse than Donskoi's, 800 vs 920 m/s for example. Molotov has almost the same guns.

[Paimentaja]

2 minutes ago, SeeteufeI said:

Kirov's ballistics are worse than Donskoi's, 800 vs 920 m/s for example. Molotov has almost the same guns.

Yeah it would be extremely OP with the same guns, but they are similiar enough to get the point of that caliber and accuracy. Molotov would be kinda OP but the reload keep things in order.

[BeauNidl3]

I'm a bit surprised so many people actively dislike the Donskoi, I preferred it to the other T9 cruisers (other than the Roon which I liked for slightly different reasons) and I even prefer it to the Moskva that I find a bit boring. I liked most of the line from Kirov onward, despite them being armoured in damp bog roll. 

Still that's a good part of the game, some people find a ship great, others find the same ship junk.

[WeGreedy]

3 minutes ago, Paimentaja said:

Molotov would be kinda OP but the reload keep things in order.

Reload is also the same (without slot 6 upgrade), but she has of course less guns in total. The range on Molotov is what keeps her in line, in my opinion.

[VC381]

30 minutes ago, SeeteufeI said:

Reload is also the same (without slot 6 upgrade), but she has of course less guns in total. The range on Molotov is what keeps her in line, in my opinion.

 

The fact it evaporates if you sneeze on it is what keeps it in line... just barely. Great ship though! 

[EsaTuunanen]

4 hours ago, Panocek said:

Donskoi guns are intermediate ones, thus they don't have oomph of a proper CA and they lack CL reload.

Donskoi/Molotov guns have basically same AP pen as standard 203mm USN AP.

It only lacks those better auto-bounce angles. (but has rail gun trajectory)

 

There's that thread somewhere with those pen values, but this is easier for comparing two ships.

https://mustanghx.github.io/ship_ap_calculator/

[HaachamaShipping]

25 minutes ago, EsaTuunanen said:

Donskoi/Molotov guns have basically same AP pen as standard 203mm USN AP.

It only lacks those better auto-bounce angles. (but has rail gun trajectory)

 

There's that thread somewhere with those pen values, but this is easier for comparing two ships.

https://mustanghx.github.io/ship_ap_calculator/

Worth noting though: 180 mm will not overmatch the same as 203 mm. Which actually matters a bit in Molotov's tier range, as for example a Furutaka or an Aoba can overmatch enemy T5 and lower cruisers at the bow, while Molotov cannot. 203 mm guns also will overmatch Molotov's bow while Molotov cannot overmatch another Molotov, because 180 mm don't overmatch 13 mm plating. This also means T5 and lower DDs can bounce off Molotov AP on their sides, they won't bounce 203 mm. Not that one should ideally fire AP at DDs, but with the reloads of these guns, might as well if its already loaded.

[NothingButTheRain]

8 hours ago, 15JG52Adler said:

yeah....t9 sucks donkey.....larger caliber with slower reload = less fire, less dmg....bigger citadel, slower turner....ffs it is probably (for me) worst ship in RU line

I'm hearing so many horror stories about the tier 9 shipsin the game, I can recall only a couple 'good' ones, the USA DD and the Lion.

Shouldn't it be considered to buff the crappy tier 9 ones a bit?

[Butterdoll]

10 hours ago, Excavatus said:

Hello gentelmen,

 

Some of you know me as a IJN DD captaion mostly and with some German BBs..

After spending nearly whole april out of game and driving tonks, I'm back with the new ranked season, and I find myself in no desire to sail in IJN DDs (generally all DDs) and my german BBs anymore.

I unlocked FDG and sold my bismarck, my only BB, and stopped playing my shima at all. (Really thinking about selling it and getting yugumo back)

 

Ok, this far it was just an introduction.

I've found my new interest in the cruisers. I've always grinded German ones, because I don't know, I love them and can do average or above in them.

Now I am at roon, and I am loving that ship. 20.7km range with that epic guns and 11.1 km detectability.. are you real... ???

Can't be arsed to go RN cruisers even though I want a mina, I cant grind them. Tried twice failed twice.

and no to US cruisers because island hugging is nothing I like.. and with my limited experience in that like RN cruisers. Spotted cruiser is a dead cruiser.

So, one of the days in the near past, I was grinding my roon and thinking about the Jap Cruiser line,

One of the idiots from my clan said "Why not try RU Cruisers.! you will love them!"

 

to wrap it up,

I've finished kirov and started Buddyony last night. and my inital assesment is same for both of them.

Great guns.. oh.. love of my life guns.. but you have to keep your captain constantly drunk, because If you sail in a straight line more than 3 seconds..

you will eat citadels even from your dead grandmother will think you are full...

You have to position yourself quite good because most of the times, disengaging means hide behind an island for a while and change locations.

You get spotted from the moon so sailing back 20 seconds and disengaging is not an option.

 

My only problem is, I like to be aggressive and go take a good spot at the start.. but %99 of the time, I get spotted and shot at..

I am good at dodging those long range shots but, you know, RNGesus says.. hey one shell is totally off the aim.. oh! here is your citadel! 11K damage...

 

May I take some advices.. for buddyony and for the road up ahead.. ?

may I take some warnings for what to expect further in the line?

Any terrible ship designed to be a free XP sink?

any ship worth keeping through the line?

 

Generally.. tell me anything about the RU Cruiser line starting with tier 6..

 

Thanks in advance. !

Nah, you are confusing Buddy with Shchors.

Angle your buddy, it will work until the point the shells trajectories turns flatter.

CE+ premium camo=11.2 kms

[pzkpfwv1d]

Pro;s for the Russian cruisers

 

Long range 

Excellent fire starters 

High rates of fire 

Decent speed 

 

Con's 

Super sized citadels resulting in large percentage of citadels 

 

Best tactic is to find a spot where the enemy are in your range and you are out of there range and use those guns to burn down there ships 

[Panocek]

1 hour ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I'm hearing so many horror stories about the tier 9 shipsin the game, I can recall only a couple 'good' ones, the USA DD and the Lion.

Shouldn't it be considered to buff the crappy tier 9 ones a bit?

Rather its tied to tier 9 being stuffed between tier 8 and 10, both of which house great ships to play with. Donskoi is bit of a shock after Chapayev, but she is alright. Same with Edinburgh->Neptune. Iowa can be considered a downgrade from nimble NoCal while offering no significant firepower, AA or armor upgrade, but that doesn't mean Iowa is bad. Just not as awesome as NC is tier lower. If anything I'd point Ibuki and Izumo to get some love. Former downgrades from awesome 15gun salvo and latter is well, Izumo. Needs more than one roll of duct tape to fix that

[Excavatus]

18 hours ago, Yedwy said:

I D say keep grinding the germans somhow i did other lines before them and only very recently freexped hindenburg boy was i missing out...

 

 

Oh I am doing that..

But I don't call it grinding.. That is actually fun..

Roon.. my newfoundlove!

even the losses are fun with her..

I really look forward for hindi...

 

15 hours ago, NicramDuel said:

I play the Russian Cruisers as my main, and generally enjoy them. 

 

 

Woaw!

Thanks mate.. for the sharing.. I appreciated.

It is interesting most people hates donskoi and you start with AMAZING!

But your passion for RU cruisers is obvious, I think donskoi is like an ugly duckling like Admiral Hipper..

So many people hates that ship.. I love her.. loved her even before buff!

 

On the other hand,

Many things you said, I've experienced myself in the last couple days.

The biggest lesson I've learned is..

NEVER EVER STOP..

DONT CAMP.. STAY ON THE MOVE...!

 

The general aiming skill in this game is enough to keep me alive :)

 

[Hyperion84]

16 hours ago, Paimentaja said:

Kirov is excellent. Yes it is sluggish and made out of cardboard but the guns are insane. Those are btw the same guns you will get with the Donskoi, ofc with little different attributes (reload mainly), but basically the same. (And in Molotov) Kirov will teach you the pace and positioning of the USSR cruiser line and is a valuable lesson to be learned in order to be effective with the rest of the line. Schcschzchcshorscshhsch will continue where the Bud left things. Chap will be more or less the same, but will get tehh radar with B hull and that somewhat changes the game (or more like capabilities and "responsibilities"), but the principals remain the same even with the Donskoi.

I will have to try out the line again in a near future, I've had a couple more hundred battles since and more importantly more destroyer play (Soviet and USS), maybe it will allow me to work out the playstyle of the RU cruiser line. 

Any recommendation for a eager learner? (replays ect.)

 

Had a buddy who never has played the line, but really shines in it (almost always mid-top ranking on the team) and I was really surprised what the Kirov could do. 

[Excavatus]

2 hours ago, Hyperion84 said:

I will have to try out the line again in a near future, I've had a couple more hundred battles since and more importantly more destroyer play (Soviet and USS), maybe it will allow me to work out the playstyle of the RU cruiser line. 

Any recommendation for a eager learner? (replays ect.)

 

Had a buddy who never has played the line, but really shines in it (almost always mid-top ranking on the team) and I was really surprised what the Kirov could do. 

My limited experience in the line is with kirov and buddy..

My humble advice would be,

 

Keep your captain drunk at all times..

Never ever stop, dont camp, dont try to sneak snipe,

always run on full speed, never ever go in a straight line for more than 3 seconds..

always wiggle..

keep some islands near by to break contact..

did I say do not ever stop??

yeah.. dont ever stop...

Dont rush into the first line.

Wait for enemy start attacking other people..

you are not a first responder..

you are an evil, opportunistic bastard who likes to stab people from back and steal their wallet when they are fist fighting for their life with other people..

[WeGreedy]

16 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I can recall only a couple 'good' ones, the USA DD and the Lion.

I'd add Udaloy, Tashkent and Iowa to that. Also Alsace, but I never played her.

[HaachamaShipping]

16 hours ago, NothingButTheRain said:

I'm hearing so many horror stories about the tier 9 shipsin the game, I can recall only a couple 'good' ones, the USA DD and the Lion.

Shouldn't it be considered to buff the crappy tier 9 ones a bit?

 

42 minutes ago, SeeteufeI said:

I'd add Udaloy, Tashkent and Iowa to that. Also Alsace, but I never played her.

Alsace seems strong too, yeah. In general, I think T9 cruisers apart from maybe Ibuki and Neptune get far less flak, given the now available repair party. Ibuki looks lackluster after Mogami's shell spam and in Neptune's case, repair party was already available since low tiers. But for example Baltimore and Roon seem pretty well-liked and an upgrade over T8.