Jump to content
You need to play a total of 50 battles to post in this section.
Excavatus

Russian Cruiser Line

93 comments in this topic

Recommended Posts

[THESO]
[THESO]
Moderator
3,720 posts
10,146 battles

Hello gentelmen,

 

Some of you know me as a IJN DD captaion mostly and with some German BBs..

After spending nearly whole april out of game and driving tonks, I'm back with the new ranked season, and I find myself in no desire to sail in IJN DDs (generally all DDs) and my german BBs anymore.

I unlocked FDG and sold my bismarck, my only BB, and stopped playing my shima at all. (Really thinking about selling it and getting yugumo back)

 

Ok, this far it was just an introduction.

I've found my new interest in the cruisers. I've always grinded German ones, because I don't know, I love them and can do average or above in them.

Now I am at roon, and I am loving that ship. 20.7km range with that epic guns and 11.1 km detectability.. are you real... ???

Can't be arsed to go RN cruisers even though I want a mina, I cant grind them. Tried twice failed twice.

and no to US cruisers because island hugging is nothing I like.. and with my limited experience in that like RN cruisers. Spotted cruiser is a dead cruiser.

So, one of the days in the near past, I was grinding my roon and thinking about the Jap Cruiser line,

One of the idiots from my clan said "Why not try RU Cruisers.! you will love them!"

 

to wrap it up,

I've finished kirov and started Buddyony last night. and my inital assesment is same for both of them.

Great guns.. oh.. love of my life guns.. but you have to keep your captain constantly drunk, because If you sail in a straight line more than 3 seconds..

you will eat citadels even from your dead grandmother will think you are full...

You have to position yourself quite good because most of the times, disengaging means hide behind an island for a while and change locations.

You get spotted from the moon so sailing back 20 seconds and disengaging is not an option.

 

My only problem is, I like to be aggressive and go take a good spot at the start.. but %99 of the time, I get spotted and shot at..

I am good at dodging those long range shots but, you know, RNGesus says.. hey one shell is totally off the aim.. oh! here is your citadel! 11K damage...

 

May I take some advices.. for buddyony and for the road up ahead.. ?

may I take some warnings for what to expect further in the line?

Any terrible ship designed to be a free XP sink?

any ship worth keeping through the line?

 

Generally.. tell me anything about the RU Cruiser line starting with tier 6..

 

Thanks in advance. !

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,199 posts
14,266 battles
2 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

Hello gentelmen,

 

Some of you know me as a IJN DD captaion mostly and with some German BBs..

After spending nearly whole april out of game and driving tonks, I'm back with the new ranked season, and I find myself in no desire to sail in IJN DDs (generally all DDs) and my german BBs anymore.

I unlocked FDG and sold my bismarck, my only BB, and stopped playing my shima at all. (Really thinking about selling it and getting yugumo back)

 

Ok, this far it was just an introduction.

I've found my new interest in the cruisers. I've always grinded German ones, because I don't know, I love them and can do average or above in them.

Now I am at roon, and I am loving that ship. 20.7km range with that epic guns and 11.1 km detectability.. are you real... ???

Can't be arsed to go RN cruisers even though I want a mina, I cant grind them. Tried twice failed twice.

and no to US cruisers because island hugging is nothing I like.. and with my limited experience in that like RN cruisers. Spotted cruiser is a dead cruiser.

So, one of the days in the near past, I was grinding my roon and thinking about the Jap Cruiser line,

One of the idiots from my clan said "Why not try RU Cruisers.! you will love them!"

 

to wrap it up,

I've finished kirov and started Buddyony last night. and my inital assesment is same for both of them.

Great guns.. oh.. love of my life guns.. but you have to keep your captain constantly drunk, because If you sail in a straight line more than 3 seconds..

you will eat citadels even from your dead grandmother will think you are full...

You have to position yourself quite good because most of the times, disengaging means hide behind an island for a while and change locations.

You get spotted from the moon so sailing back 20 seconds and disengaging is not an option.

 

My only problem is, I like to be aggressive and go take a good spot at the start.. but %99 of the time, I get spotted and shot at..

I am good at dodging those long range shots but, you know, RNGesus says.. hey one shell is totally off the aim.. oh! here is your citadel! 11K damage...

 

May I take some advices.. for buddyony and for the road up ahead.. ?

may I take some warnings for what to expect further in the line?

Any terrible ship designed to be a free XP sink?

any ship worth keeping through the line?

 

Generally.. tell me anything about the RU Cruiser line starting with tier 6..

 

Thanks in advance. !

epic firestarters, precise guns, second liners......oneshotes easy :), al have longest ranger radar (t8+).

 

from t6-t9 game play is the same, t8 outshines t9 by far

 

t10.....strong armor, largest HP, no more one shoots that easy....laser guns, long range, very tanky....good AP.....worst DPS of them all.....Hindy is much better

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,906 posts
11 minutes ago, 15JG52Adler said:

t10.....strong armor, largest HP, no more one shoots that easy....laser guns, long range, very tanky....good AP.....worst DPS of them all.....Hindy is much better

Moskva does not have strong armor. Common mistake that ppl think that. 25mm bow and stern. Des Moines have better armor. Yes you can angle for autobounce but only idiots shoot the belt. 

Worst DPM is Henri IV. 

 

The selling point of the Moskva is the ability to somewhat consistantly being able to citadel BB's and snipe citadels on cruisers at ranges they cant hit you back. 

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,199 posts
14,266 battles
5 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

Moskva does not have strong armor. Common mistake that ppl think that. 25mm bow and stern. Des Moines have better armor. Yes you can angle for autobounce but only idiots shoot the belt. 

Worst DPM is Henri IV. 

 

The selling point of the Moskva is the ability to somewhat consistantly being able to citadel BB's and snipe citadels on cruisers at ranges they cant hit you back. 

i dont know....i have many games in DM and in game there is no question (for me) which has better armor (maybe i am subjective), i never ever god devastated in moskva or eaven lost 50% in one salvo, while in DM it happens much more often.

 

also compared to t6-t9 RU Moskva has much stronger armor (which was my initial point)

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[UNICS]
Beta Tester
4,868 posts
9,434 battles

I didn't really enjoy the RU cruiser line that much either.

I'm currently at Chapa and while they've all been very capable ships, it's also not a very fun playstyle. 

Their big turning circles mean that you have a hard time reacting to surprises or change from aggressive to defensive without making yourself vulnerable. So you commit to one approach and that often is the defensive one since committing to an aggressive approach early and that turning out to be the wrong choice means you're probably going to sink.

 

You end up in this weird place where you have the guns and radar to be really effective close to caps and supporting DDs, but you're also taking a huge risk because of your inflexibility and inability to use islands for more than shelter.

At range your guns work great, with great velocity, good damage and good fire chance. But your radar is wasted and you have a hard time affecting the battle in more ways than just farming as much damage as you can.

 

KM cruisers have similar weaknesses but sacrifices some of that long range DPM for better close range tankiness, hydro utility and usable torps. They give you more options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
3,130 posts
10,561 battles
4 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

Moskva does not have strong armor. Common mistake that ppl think that. 25mm bow and stern. Des Moines have better armor. Yes you can angle for autobounce but only idiots shoot the belt. 

Worst DPM is Henri IV. 

 

The selling point of the Moskva is the ability to somewhat consistantly being able to citadel BB's and snipe citadels on cruisers at ranges they cant hit you back. 

This ^^

 

Grinding the line at the moment as we need more Moskva ships in the clan.  Its a stay at range, move all the time and spam stuff kinda play, but don't get hit, please don't get hit.

 

Its been alright so far but it's not the ships you can relay on to win games on their own.  The damage is also Meh and that's with IFHE. 

 

I took me time to get used to their style of play and was far too aggressive in them at the start. i just finished the whole German Cruiser grind at the time and kept it's mentality which didn't go well at all.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[SCRUB]
[SCRUB]
Quality Poster
5,060 posts
19,521 battles
32 minutes ago, 15JG52Adler said:

epic firestarters, precise guns, second liners......oneshotes easy :), al have longest ranger radar (t8+).

 

from t6-t9 game play is the same, t8 outshines t9 by far

 

t10.....strong armor, largest HP, no more one shoots that easy....laser guns, long range, very tanky....good AP.....worst DPS of them all.....Hindy is much better

Dont tell me this i struggle with the tier 8 and am only about 20k from the tier 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
2,199 posts
14,266 battles
Just now, T0byJug said:

Dont tell me this i struggle with the tier 8 and am only about 20k from the tier 9

yeah....t9 sucks donkey.....larger caliber with slower reload = less fire, less dmg....bigger citadel, slower turner....ffs it is probably (for me) worst ship in RU line

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,906 posts
16 minutes ago, 15JG52Adler said:

i dont know....i have many games in DM and in game there is no question (for me) which has better armor (maybe i am subjective), i never ever god devastated in moskva or eaven lost 50% in one salvo, while in DM it happens much more often.

 

also compared to t6-t9 RU Moskva has much stronger armor (which was my initial point)

 

 

 

 

The belt armor on the Moskva is much better than the DM. But that requires you to get shot at the belt. If the player shooting at you know a tiny bit on where to shoot the Moskva, you will die very fast. Moskva is more tanky in the sense she have more HP, but other than that she is just another squishy cruiser. With horrible concealment. 

 

When it comes to the T6-T9 i agree. But its a bit confusing for players when they finally learn the playstyle and suddenly everything changes with the T10. But thats another topic i guess :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PAPAT]
Players
349 posts
15,433 battles

Those are very good ships in starting fires and with IFHE the alpha is somewhat reasonable too. They need a lot of work in order to be effective ; Where to position, when to open fire, what you are going to shoot and with what shell, how to manouver ect.

 

But, in general, they perform very good in longer range HE spammers. Personally I did not find any of those to be a freeXP sink. Even the Donskoi mentioned here is IMO very strong ship (not in armor in general). The guns are just phenomenal. It is not as agile as Chapayev, but very good ship that has usable torps too. ROF is not as good as in Chapa but good enough to utilize the great shells. It has somewhat laser-shells that will find targets pretty easily, DDs too from a slightly longer range.

 

So, to help with the Bud, start the rounds as a second liner. Throw shells like a madman. Disengage when you are being focused, but don't stop shooting while doing it ; Concealment is kinda bad and you won't get concealed so easily, so, take everything out of that. Once you gain enough distance to be concealed again, turn around, sail to a slightly different position and start it all over again. All the ships play pretty much the same after Bud, Moskva being the one that does not benefit from IFHE, so captain will have to be re-skilled when you get there.

 

KM Cruisers are the best in game to play aggressively, don't expect these to be anywhere near them. Even when ppl claiming that the Donskoi is crap, it is the most versatile of all of them. Moskva is tankier, but no torps and it is veeeeery sluggish.

 

So if you like the Mogami or are annoyed by them, that is the playstyle to go for. USSR CA's need the team to perform allright. Only very rare occasions you are able to win 1 on 1 fights with other cruisers.

Edited by Paimentaja
Typos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[THESO]
[THESO]
Moderator
3,720 posts
10,146 battles
3 minutes ago, Paimentaja said:

Those are very good ships in starting fires and with IFHE the alpha is somewhat reasonable too. They need a lot of work in order to be effective ; Where to position, when to open fire, what you are going to shoot and with what shell, how to manouver ect.

 

But, in general, they perform very good in longer range HE spammers. Personally I did not find any of those to be a freeXP sink. Even the Donskoi mentioned here is IMO very strong ship (not in armor in general). The guns are just phenomenal. It is not as agile as Chapayev, but very good ship that has usable torps too. ROF is not as good as in Chapa but good enough to utilize the great shells. It has somewhat laser-shells that will find targets pretty easily, DDs too from a slightly longer range.

 

So, to help with the Bud, start the rounds as a second liner. Throw shells like a madman. Disengage when you are being focused, but don't stop shooting while doing it ; Concealmen is kinda bad and you won't get concealed so easily, so, take everything out of that. Once you gain enough distance to be concealed again, turn around, sail to a slightly different position and start it all over again. All the ships play pretty much the same after Bud, Moskva being the one that does not benefit from IFHE, so captain will have to be re-skilled when you get there.

 

KM Cruisers are the best in game to play aggressively, don't expect these to be anywhere near them. Even when ppl claiming that the Donskoi is crap, it is the most versatile of all of them. Moskva is tankier, but no torps and it is veeeeery sluggish.

 

So if you like the Mogami or are annoyed by them, that is the playstyle to go for. USSR CA's need the team to perform allright. Only very rare occasions you are able to win 1 on 1 fights with other cruisers.

Yeah, The german cruisers I've found them.. very very good IMO.

and I agree with the team part..

If I get focused with kirov of buddy.. I will take huge hits, will get severly crippled If not die...

But If only 1 or 2 ships try to snipe me.. and let me be.. the guns are amazing even from high range..

From grinding this line, I've learned this lesson.

If I see a RU cruiser.. focus it first... It needs to go down fast..

and I've got my answer to my question.. I was chasing down a chapa in my hipper and couldnt understand how he did wreck me up.. now I know..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PAPAT]
Players
349 posts
15,433 battles
Just now, Excavatus said:

Yeah, The german cruisers I've found them.. very very good IMO.

and I agree with the team part..

If I get focused with kirov of buddy.. I will take huge hits, will get severly crippled If not die...

But If only 1 or 2 ships try to snipe me.. and let me be.. the guns are amazing even from high range..

From grinding this line, I've learned this lesson.

If I see a RU cruiser.. focus it first... It needs to go down fast..

and I've got my answer to my question.. I was chasing down a chapa in my hipper and couldnt understand how he did wreck me up.. now I know..

And those are the best kind of lessons to be learned. It is highly important to understand your enemies. The only way to completely know what is going on, is to try to master them by your self. USSR ships are fast in general and the bite 'n' kite works very good in them. You'll need some time to master the manouvering part, shooting straight is pretty easy with them.

 

You are already in half way by trying this and that tells me a lot of you. Keep up the good work and you shall be rewarded. :)

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
8,065 posts
8,914 battles

Russian cruisers are great, but aggressive play...Surely not past T7 and the Shchors only in matches against T5s, where its armour can still hold up somewhat. But in general, I find myself near islands and further from the frontlines with them, because if your ship is anything like Shchors to Donskoi, you basically have an overlarge ships with little effective armour, pretty easy to citadel (might get luck with overpens, but even a 203 mm ship is easily going to give you pens), among the worst detection ranges and for sure among the worst turning circles. I consider them great guns installed on pretty terrible hulls. But one can have fun games in them when one accepts that a bit unlucky RNG may lead to just getting devstriked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
1,906 posts

To OP:

I liked every ship in the line except Dimitri. Don't know why, but her and i did not go well together. 

But all in all it was one of the most fun lines to grind for me. And that was before IFHE came out. 

 

Very strong and competitive ships, just remember!!! Do not overextend.  

 

If ever you need some motivation to get to the Moskva?

Here is some :cap_cool:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PAPAT]
Players
349 posts
15,433 battles
3 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Russian cruisers are great, but aggressive play...Surely not past T7 and the Shchors only in matches against T5s, where its armour can still hold up somewhat. But in general, I find myself near islands and further from the frontlines with them, because if your ship is anything like Shchors to Donskoi, you basically have an overlarge ships with little effective armour, pretty easy to citadel (might get luck with overpens, but even a 203 mm ship is easily going to give you pens), among the worst detection ranges and for sure among the worst turning circles. I consider them great guns installed on pretty terrible hulls. But one can have fun games in them when one accepts that a bit unlucky RNG may lead to just getting devstriked.

Donskoi infact has better manouvering than the previous ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
8,065 posts
8,914 battles
Just now, Paimentaja said:

Donskoi infact has better manouvering than the previous ones.

Yeah, the worst is Shchors, with 900 m turning radius, Chapa comes next with 890. This is compparable to the worse T9 BBs. When I came from Budyonny to the Shchors, I regularly beached myself before I learned how to handle the ship. Obviously, that did not go well.

  • Cool 1
  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PAPAT]
Players
349 posts
15,433 battles
4 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Yeah, the worst is Shchors, with 900 m turning radius, Chapa comes next with 890. This is compparable to the worse T9 BBs. When I came from Budyonny to the Shchors, I regularly beached myself before I learned how to handle the ship. Obviously, that did not go well.

Indeed, those are terrible ships in terms of manouverability. Donskoi ofc in the other hand has everything else very sluggish ; Accelerating & stopping, rudder ect but circle radius is a lot better and upgrading towards rudder shift time will provide a very good bite 'n' kite machine when these "abilities" are used correctly and all together.

  • Cool 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[THESO]
[THESO]
Moderator
3,720 posts
10,146 battles

 

5 minutes ago, Riselotte said:

Yeah, the worst is Shchors, with 900 m turning radius, Chapa comes next with 890. This is compparable to the worse T9 BBs. When I came from Budyonny to the Shchors, I regularly beached myself before I learned how to handle the ship. Obviously, that did not go well.

 

2 minutes ago, Paimentaja said:

Indeed, those are terrible ships in terms of manouverability. Donskoi ofc in the other hand has everything else very sluggish ; Accelerating & stopping, rudder ect but circle radius is a lot better and upgrading towards rudder shift time will provide a very good bite 'n' kite machine when these "abilities" are used correctly and all together.

one question then..

 

doesn't decreasing the rudder shift time, decreases the turning circle?

because It starts turning faster? or am I totally wrong?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PAPAT]
Players
349 posts
15,433 battles
2 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

 

 

one question then..

 

doesn't decreasing the rudder shift time, decreases the turning circle?

because It starts turning faster? or am I totally wrong?

Yes if you count the time rotating the rudder in the practical turnin circle. The circle radiuses that are stated, are with already rotated rudder.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[THESO]
[THESO]
Moderator
3,720 posts
10,146 battles
2 minutes ago, Paimentaja said:

Yes if you count the time rotating the rudder in the practical turnin circle. The circle radiuses that are stated, are with already rotated rudder.

so basically the turning circle is actually bigger than the stated number when your ships is stock.

The number means, is the lowest number which you can get theoretically (with 0 second rudder shift time)

SHITE!!! that is bad..

there are 14 seconds shift time stock ships I've seen.. omg!

Now I understand the phrase they use in wot: "That thing turns like a battleship"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
8,065 posts
8,914 battles
1 minute ago, Excavatus said:

 

 

one question then..

 

doesn't decreasing the rudder shift time, decreases the turning circle?

because It starts turning faster? or am I totally wrong?

No. It just starts turning at its proper rate faster. The only thing that decreases turning circle is speed. Most ships turn tightest at around 20 knots. I would recommend not slowing down though, unless you are save from incoming fire or are trying to not run into a wall of torpedoes. Thankfully (or not so) these ships do lose some significant speed in a turn and are just pretty fast in a straight line.

 

I always feel like these ships were built in order to satisfy the specifications ordered from politburo more than being good seaworthy vessels, having decent guns and being quite fast in a straight line, but having handling otherwise that I can only call atrocious for a cruiser. It's balanced for the good guns (which IRL would have barrel wear issues, but is just game), but any other cruiser line feels more comfortable in ship handling than the Russians.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[PAPAT]
Players
349 posts
15,433 battles
9 minutes ago, Excavatus said:

so basically the turning circle is actually bigger than the stated number when your ships is stock.

The number means, is the lowest number which you can get theoretically (with 0 second rudder shift time)

SHITE!!! that is bad..

there are 14 seconds shift time stock ships I've seen.. omg!

Now I understand the phrase they use in wot: "That thing turns like a battleship"

Yes that is true. And with that turning circle radius, no matter how fast your rudder is, the ship will not be very responsive. There is also a factor called "drag" "drift" that applies in higher speeds. Some ships has a lot of drift and therefore their turning in higher speeds is even worse than the numbers tell you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
4,389 posts
12,087 battles

I liked USSR cruiserline a lot. Once you get the knack of Buddyony the rest will follow well: the next ships have the same-isch styles IMO. I like to play them from a pure Soviet POV:

- a Red Army soldier doesn't flee, so side armor is unnecessary. (broadside never good idea but complete taboo for the cruisers)

- the Red Army soldier needs good guns: let's stuff the ships as fully as possible with guns an make them hard hitting and pinpoint accurate

- He needs to be on the front fast: beware. The cruisers are deceivingly fast. Found myself overextended by that too often

- When charging the Soviet soldier needs good protection on the nose: that's pretty much covered

- When overextended, which will happen. Don't bother to flee. Just charge in and go down in a gulf of flames: you won't survive the turn anyway.Though short ranged, the torps are hard hitting. Donskoys torps only have 8 km range so it's more useful in combat. Oh, and your first torpedo rush with your Moskva will guaranteed be your last one (like I found out the hard way).

 

  • Funny 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[BLITZ]
Players
2,818 posts
10,909 battles
53 minutes ago, MortenTardo said:

If ever you need some motivation to get to the Moskva?

Here is some :cap_cool:

That's more of a motivation to fly some Juliet Charlies. :fish_boom:

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Players
9,816 posts
11,501 battles
1 hour ago, T0byJug said:

Dont tell me this i struggle with the tier 8 and am only about 20k from the tier 9

Donskoi guns are intermediate ones, thus they don't have oomph of a proper CA and they lack CL reload. You also lose comfy concealment of a Chapayev and with attention this very fast, but very not maneuvreable nor concealable cruiser gets, 17km range is uncomfortably low at times. But hey, she has 8km torps:Smile_smile:

 

Moskva on other hand flip table, as she gets THE best cruiser guns (as of now) and reinforced amidship/deck let her shrug off all kinds of munitions sent her way. Her citadel is higher and longer than Minotaur, so if you're caught with empty vodka bottle, you're send straight to gulag. Not helped by fact Moskva gets concealment worse than actual BB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

×