800 Mb update

[czaki222]

 

http://forum.worldofwarships.eu/index.php?/topic/10070-update-0303-07042015/page__fromsearch__1

 

Detailed patch notes to follow basically

Haven't checked the CBT section and that was pretty obvious >_> Thanks.

[genai]

 

Totally disagree. Lets try it first then comment please. DDs and CAs will need to play more tactically and support BBs. No more hiding behind an island but proper naval combat. Bring it on.

 

In some other game that may be true... but how exactly you think CAs will play tactically and support BBs??? BBs have good AA, CVs almost useless even before buff if other guy knows what he is doing... CAs have no range to attack BBs while BBs have range to attack them, and DDs will be out of spot range anyway! And with buff to guns, they might be better suited to deal with other DDs than cruiser anyway

 

Proper naval combat... yea right lol, when BBs outnumber CAs 2:1 or even 3:1 in a game, and CA gets oneshot or 50% hp down with 1 hit, with useless torpedoes... its going to be so tactical! Any cruiser that gets in range to shoot will be just killed, while AA cover was not needed even before buff...

 

Guess proper naval combat means 6 BBs per team, while 2 cruisers sit behind them(yes behind them, infront means they are well in range of BBs and dead) well out of range, and DDs dance infront out of spot range shooting torpedoes hoping for a long range hit...

 

It would make sense if we had plenty of dds, some less cruisers and 2-3 BBs... but its not like that, there are not crazy amount of aircraft going around, there are not many targets if you are in cruiser anyway... maybe 2-3 other teams cruiser and DDs you fight off on "covered" part of map while BBs battle on open part of the map, that as of now is already a graveyard for cruisers... let alone on a map where you cant ambush anyone around the island and where getting close is impossible without dying... unless you are DD, and any cruiser in range to shoot at that DD is automatically in range of BBs and nr1 target for their shots, as they are easiest to kill...

 

But im sure BBs will love it... no more wondering if there are torpedoes coming when going around the island, or that pesky cruiser getting away as they run for cover... free reign, just change speed/direction from time to time to dodge long range DD torpedoes and absolutely nothing to worry about on open map...

 

Im just baffled there are people who actually like the idea and want to "try it out"... well, that are not BB lovers anyway...

its very ridiculous to think that in a game where BBs already dominate and outnumber cruisers and DDs in a game 2:1 or 3:1, and they get buffed against their only real nemesis, CV,  suddenly open map that favors BBs even more will bring you proper naval combat(that needs less BBs and more CAs and DDs per team) and not even more BBs...

[DtXpwnz]

I am really interested how this one works out. CVs already feel kinda underpowered at higher tiers. Engaging BB escorted by a CA was a suicide before. Now it seems that even attack on a single BB will cost you 7+ planes.

 

The open water map will hopefuly make BB captains learn that they have to decrease the engangement range to ~13km. Definately looking forwards to trying this map.

[Shepbur]

Im just baffled there are people who actually like the idea and want to "try it out"... well, that are not BB lovers anyway...

 

Well seeing as Ocean is probably a supertester's wet dream, it's of little surprise that we rather like the map and want others to like it too. We've been playing games on it for a reasonable while now, and know it's gameplay, and as i said in my post... it's completely unique to the point that you get into extremely close-range firefights very quickly without noticing it. And i hope that everyone else goes and does the same thing too, because it's really fun. Of course you can sit at 20km and try and out-range your opponents, but you won't do all that well, and you'll get bored by it.

 

Hundreds of people have been screaming for such a map for a good 8 months now, you might as well try it out a few times and see if it's worth it or not...

[Hanszeehock]

@genai - doesn't really matter what you think as this is a test and we will try it out. Do you really think that enemy BBs will just target CAs ? Of course they won't. they will be attacking your team's BBs unless they want to die quickly. You haven't even mentioned CVs ! And unless CAs support their BBs a distracted BB with its guns pointing the wrong way is still an easy target for a good DD captain.

 

But don't take my word for it, try the map then comment

[Khul]

@genai: I don't wish to seem combative dude, but this is closed beta.

 

The traffic numbers are small. If you introduce rules to MM such as "2/3 BBs per team max" queues will increase exponentially, particularly at times when the server population is low.

 

I've already seen whines important feedback from the CV die-hards when their cap was introduced; now you wanna put the cat amongst the pigeons by capping the most popular, iconic ships in the game... again, in closed beta. When they're trying to work everything out.

I suggest the old wait & see, mate, before making flappy pronouncements.

PS: Also, yeah, cruisers should, in an ideal world, be out jinking & zig-zagging in front of the main battle line, but behind the destroyers. Perhaps CAs & CLs will learn to do that on this new open map, providing an annoying distraction for the BBs & a scourge to the scouting/torp-running DDs, allowing their own BBs to focus fire on points of the enemy line & achieve a breakthrough.

 

Because at the moment, the islands simply encourage the kind of player who hides in their heavy tank in the valley at Lakeville an excuse to wander off to "safety" (& then complain ten seconds later that they've been torpedoed unfairly).

 

I would hope the CA players learn to use their advantages to survive. I for one cannot wait to try out the new map with my brand-new Mogami.

[Takeda92]

Well, I hope now we have global AA buff devs will now consider 3 CV per team and bring back CV platoons!

[Psychological_Warfare]

Well, I hope now we have global AA buff devs will now consider 3 CV per team and bring back CV platoons!

 

I hope there will never be the option for more then 1 cv ;). Just think about dodging torps from 2 players sitting in TS with their CV's...

[Takeda92]

 

I hope there will never be the option for more then 1 cv ;). Just think about dodging torps from 2 players sitting in TS with their CV's...

 

Fair enough. Although I have a feeling the new AA can handle it somehow. 

 

 

[Psychological_Warfare]

 

Fair enough. Although I have a feeling the new AA can handle it somehow. 

 

 

 

If the improved AA "could" handle it somehow - then i might reconsider the CV division ;). Thats a thing we have to see now.

[genai]

@genai: I don't wish to seem combative dude, but this is closed beta.

 

The traffic numbers are small. If you introduce rules to MM such as "2/3 BBs per team max" queues will increase exponentially, particularly at times when the server population is low.

 

I've already seen whines important feedback from the CV die-hards when their cap was introduced; now you wanna put the cat amongst the pigeons by capping the most popular, iconic ships in the game... again, in closed beta. When they're trying to work everything out.

 

I suggest the old wait & see, mate, before making flappy pronouncements.

 

PS: Also, yeah, cruisers should, in an ideal world, be out jinking & zig-zagging in front of the main battle line, but behind the destroyers. Perhaps CAs & CLs will learn to do that on this new open map, providing an annoying distraction for the BBs & a scourge to the scouting/torp-running DDs, allowing their own BBs to focus fire on points of the enemy line & achieve a breakthrough.

 

Because at the moment, the islands simply encourage the kind of player who hides in their heavy tank in the valley at Lakeville an excuse to wander off to "safety" (& then complain ten seconds later that they've been torpedoed unfairly).

 

I would hope the CA players learn to use their advantages to survive. I for one cannot wait to try out the new map with my brand-new Mogami.

 

I never said limit BB numbers... i only said that BBs even now outnumber everything 2:1 or 3:1... and they just got buff for only thing why any CA would ever go near BBs... AA!

I say make CAs better/more useful... so there are more of them per team... not introduce open map and BB buff in same update, while BBs are already by far most popular... and CVs already on the weak side... and no buffs for class that needs them the most, Cruisers(mostly IJN ones)... just makes it horrible field to introduce open map... and me in my mogami, cleveland(and pensacola in 1k xp) and ibuki would rather not see that map... until ratio of ships is somewhat normal... where every cruiser on open part of map doesnt get focus fired by at least 3 BBs... more like 1 BB per 2 cruisers

 

What happens to cruisers who try to cover BBs on open side of North map? Thats right... they are focus fired and killed in first 2-3 mins of the game... every sane BB will shoot cruiser first... why? Removes fast firing, accurate gun that may set them on fire, score criticals on them... or generally be annoying, and increases the effectiveness of their own CVs and DDs... that snowballs pretty fast in their favor... not to mention how enemy cruisers that were smart enough not to go to open area, win other side of the map and push from behind, kill your CVs and DDs and get into cap, forcing your BBs to go there and fire on them, making your BBs even easier targets for their BBs, DDs and CVs... as they dont have the luxury of maneuvering on open water, and have to rush there...

 

Its not that i dont understand how that kind of map would be good if ships were properly balanced, or their popularity was how it should be... i really do... but open map in this case is horrible... and i could see it working in supertest environment where everyone knows each other and you can expect decent teamplay and ship ratios... not in open game where you have so many BBs and no teamplay and where cruiser is endangered species that gets killed every time BB has a line of fire on them

 

2 CVs, 3 BBs, 6 CAs, 4-5 DDs teams would work fine... 0-2 CVs, 6-7 BB, 2-3 CA, 1-2 DD teams wont make for good games for non-BBs on open map

 

Guess they need to find a way to make CAs more popular... how? Well... its up to them... they are still in "make BBs even more popular" mode it seems

[ParEx]

With all this whining about OP AA guns:

Is there any experience about how much planes you lose in "normal" attack mode and manual torpedo drop?

Maybe this is just a way to force players not to rely on click and attack but to think and drop their torpedos from larger range themself?

 

Just a thought. Is there any experience? Dont exspect any data since WG isnt publishing it.

 

[captainjoshi]

With all this whining about OP AA guns:

Is there any experience about how much planes you lose in "normal" attack mode and manual torpedo drop?

Maybe this is just a way to force players not to rely on click and attack but to think and drop their torpedos from larger range themself?

 

Just a thought. Is there any experience? Dont exspect any data since WG isnt publishing it.

 

 

If u CV is about 1-2  Tier lower than the BB or CA u are losing 3-6 Planes, if u are dropping torps that actually have a chance to hit the target. and if u are in CV 1 tier lower than the enemies, u can at least survive by standing by our BBs and CAs, and keep ur planes there else they will get ripped apart.

Playin CV isnt that easy, cause MM can screw u over hard, i had one match: me indy vs Ranger + sapain, cant do a thing for obvious reasons. their bombers are even faster than my fighters, so was a trying to protect the BB with my on board AA. Everything else was pretty much impossible. AA is hard, but i dont care about AA cause i play CV mostly for Fighter cover, i m not the CV that likes bombing stuff. I just want to keep my BB safe, but if they get AA buff, who needs me anymore?

[OldGrandad]

Curious as I am at work, have they reintroduced Training Battles?

[Zaods]

 

Totally disagree. Lets try it first then comment please. DDs and CAs will need to play more tactically and support BBs. No more hiding behind an island but proper naval combat. Bring it on.

 

proper naval combat you say ? alright then put the two teams at 150 miles apart from each other and the squadrons of planes strike onto the enemy task force while bbs cas and dds get segregated to a screening position for the cvs, welcome to the war in the pacific

[captainjoshi]

 

proper naval combat you say ? alright then put the two teams at 150 miles apart from each other and the squadrons of planes strike onto the enemy task force while bbs cas and dds get segregated to a screening position for the cvs, welcome to the war in the pacific

 

BB getting torpedoed by subs in harbour is kinda the war in the atlantic ^^

[conductiv]

we'll see,

 

though my general experience is telling me that its a patch somewhat benefiting the BB, vastly increasing their AA protection makes them a better stand alone platform, and forcing enemies in the open where they out-range or out-slug anything that isn't a BB on wide open maps.

 

about CA survivability on open maps, well the most survivable ships are

-BB's, huge hitpiont pool, difficult to citadel, and self repair abilities, offensively they have the biggest long range cannons in the game and longest range. while a BB cannot engage from safety, it can engage from effective range, and when damaged badly retreat out of the enemy range to force target switches

-CV's are generally not in range of enemy guns...until the later stages of the game, CV's offensively use bommers and while these planes can inflict devastating damage and can be replaced after destruction a few times, a CV is at risk of running dry when the enemy has high amounts of AA protection

-CAs while they can take a few hits more then a DD, they lack the stealth ability and are the most likely class to catch citadel hits. its low defensive capabilities are balanced out by accurate high RoF cannons, but these cannons cannot engage enemy ships beyond LoS without drawing possible 1-hit-KO return fire.

-DDs have no real HP count, but can at least rely somewhat on their stealth, small size, high agility and smoke screen ability. IJN DDs can "safe drop" torpedo's and hope for a lucky hit. but once spotted they will die pretty quickly

[Petao_Sofronije]

Curious as I am at work, have they reintroduced Training Battles?

 

Sadly, no.

[Vulgarny]

Why are you all so surprised about AA buff for BB? Its simple math. Most people play BB in this game. Average Joe in this game is really really bad, CV are counter to BB in this game, many whines from bad players about CV. Add all this and its so obvious  that WG will look after the biggest milk group even if it will cost any resemblance of balance in game(not that now there is one). BB will be push more and more over the top so average Joe can have some fun from time to time and throw money into this game. You will see more and more wonder one hit one kill in this game so bad player can kill good player and feel that he isnt what he is.

[Adwaenyth]

-CAs while they can take a few hits more then a DD, they lack the stealth ability and are the most likely class to catch citadel hits. its low defensive capabilities are balanced out by accurate high RoF cannons, but these cannons cannot engage enemy ships beyond LoS without drawing possible 1-hit-KO return fire.

 

As a CA you will have to stay at 12-15 km from the BBs. At that distance, the shell flight time from BB shells is long enough for most CAs to outmaneuver BB salvos rather well. Below that, you'll likely getting a beating.

[conductiv]

 

As a CA you will have to stay at 12-15 km from the BBs. At that distance, the shell flight time from BB shells is long enough for most CAs to outmaneuver BB salvos rather well. Below that, you'll likely getting a beating.

 

yes, however a CA needs a long time to wittle down a BB (in general...exceptions like (possibly) the des moins and its insane DPM or a perfect torpedo run do exist), and a single BB can get lucky once to sink the CA. given that the BB gets a lot of time to place effective return fire..he will get lucky sooner or later. 

 

I tried it...but more often then not the BB gets a hit in. imagine not having 1 but 6 BB's trying to pick up the "easy kill" that way...giving multiple BB's the chance to shoot you at that range would be ludicrous. no I'd more likely sit behind my BB wall landing occasional max-range shot on the front enemy. at least until the numbers have wittled down a bit.

 

also...while some people might want to claim that the BB is more likely to target enemy BB's rather then CAs because of the higher chance to hit. In my experience, people tend to go for the easy kill. this means that they will aim for DDs, CAs and even CVs that have no planes left before trying to land a shot on a BB.  especially if the CA/DD/CV is closer then the BB.

[Vulgarny]

Also they nerfed RoF on Fubuki from 10 to 6. Thank you WG.

[Flamewarrior]

maybe fixing plane when they are locked in combat despite they have no ammo but getting slaughter

 

[DtXpwnz]

With all this whining about OP AA guns:

Is there any experience about how much planes you lose in "normal" attack mode and manual torpedo drop?

Maybe this is just a way to force players not to rely on click and attack but to think and drop their torpedos from larger range themself?

 

Just a thought. Is there any experience? Dont exspect any data since WG isnt publishing it.

 

 

Yesterday I was playing my Saipan. I saw a beached Fuso, I approached him from the broadside (the best possible approach, no manouvering around him) with both of my TB squadrons, lost 4 out of 12 planes. Same tier CV vs BB.

So I am kinda afraid of this AA buff.

[conductiv]

 

Yesterday I was playing my Saipan. I saw a beached Fuso, I approached him from the broadside (the best possible approach, no manouvering around him) with both of my TB squadrons, lost 4 out of 12 planes. Same tier CV vs BB.

So I am kinda afraid of this AA buff.

 

judging by the losses I take it you point blank manual torp dropped his ship... and I take it he was very very dead after that run....

 

seeing as he was beached, you could have dropped the torps from a safer distance..... as the most effective AA has terrible range.