WoWs suffers from being Antisocial

[KarmaQU_EU]

5 hours ago, HalSteiner said:

Man, you put so much effort only to prove your kind is the toxic problem of the game's social sphere. Stigmatizing people because they play a ship you don't like is a real proof of maturity and being social & friendly. Get out with this crap thread.

Joke-fly-over-head.jpg

[Xevious_Red]

My experience is rather different.

 

I dont hugely care about social interaction - I never join clans (wows I joined one for oil benefits, and even then I deliberately picked one that meant I didnt need to do anything different from what I was doing), I dont look to add friends in game, the only platoons I play are with RL mate etc.

 

However in Wows I will quite frequently get a "hello xevious" from forumites who recognise me, and had a good banter with someone called Xevious_75 when we were on oppossing teams twice in a row.

 

Compare this with PUBG, where the best you can expect from randoms is insults or weird noises

[TeaAndTorps]

At the risk of 1) taking this all excessively seriously, in view of the TL;DR, and 2) seeming like a presumptive newbie, there were a few points that jumped out at me that just didn't seem to reflect my experience of WOWS so far... 

17 hours ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

- There is no deeper "social representation" as all ships are more or less non-customizeable. And playing a specific ship does not 'say anything about you [...]

- All existing social structures, community, clan, all exist for the sole purpose of the game, and not otherwise. (This is a bit complicated to explain, but think of it this way: if the game is socially empty, its dependencies are also 'technically' empty, especially if its dependencies are solely hinged on this single factor) 

- Toxicity is still prevalent, in a "sorry it's not personal, its just business" kind of way. (I only want to farm, sry had to clicker-nuke you). "It's just business" is as I understand it, a derogatory term. This is negative feedback. 

- (and) Players are also forced to impose this "it's just business" on other players as well. Naturally it's not gonna sit well with most ppl. Not everyone is Most people are not antisocial, unfeeling monsters.

Much of this could be said of unquestionably social, face-to-face e.g. sporting activities 'in real life'. My main sporting hobby, for example, is judo.

- The throws, grips and holds you choose to use in judo don't 'say anything about you as a person', except that you find they work for you. That's the same reason for my having played (relative to my rather limited overall experience in WOWS) a lot of Clemson and Duguay-Trouin, and am starting to play Furutaka quite regularly (and anticipate spending a lot of time in Aoba and Myoko too, as I like that playstyle). I just don't see how that affects the level of 'socialness' one way or the other.

- I've made a bunch of mates at my judo club, and sometimes we go to the pub after training sessions. There are other social events organised throughout the year (it's a university judo club, which helps). Would I have ever met these people without judo? Would I hang out with them otherwise? Probably not, but it doesn't make that social interaction less real, or that my judo club is anti-social. Same can be said for WOWS-focused interactions through clans, forum, chat, Twitch, Discord, whatever.

- If someone throws me for ippon (i.e. flat on my back, they instantly win) I don't think they're being anti-social or an 'unfeeling monster', and the same applies in WOWS. I may be annoyed with myself for having got into a position that allows someone to throw me like that, but my response would mainly be 'nice throw', and then go away and reflect on how they got me into that position, and how I could counter that technique in future or incorporate it into my own repertoire. It's the same approach I prefer to take to being on the receiving end of a devastating strike or a roflstomp in WOWS, and honestly I think both judo and WOWS are better for approaching them in that way.

17 hours ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

I had once criticized WoWs as a "singleplayer" game. This is because its progression, its revelations, its enjoyment, is all inherently single-player. It is inherently a single player's struggle within the game. Player 1 vs WoWs. Just because it is "multiplayer" in a sense, does not mean it has all the "infrastructure" to support this kind of collective sphere. Some may argue WoWs has flags, camos, achievements, premiums, emotes No No No. Those are but "needless, sometimes excessive logistics" that are not even QoL or anything meaningful.

Tbh I like that I can decide how much of a 'social' experience it's going to be. Would I like to play divisions more? Well, in an ideal world, I think I would, but given that I don't have loads of time to play (rarely playing more than 4 or 5 games at a stretch), and am not a particularly good player, I don't really feel like that's a particularly good basis for asking people to division up with me! And if that was a regular thing and I felt like I was obliged to be online at a given moment, I think I'd enjoy the game less. Obviously I try to play my best for the team and am polite in chat etc., but part of the beauty of WOWS is that you don't have to take on any social obligation if you don't want to. And you can make it a very social experience if you want and are happy with any obligations that creates, as others have pointed out. As for the 'logistics', I guess they could be frustrating if your goal is to get a T10 asap, but not if your goal is to learn and improve and enjoy that process.

17 hours ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

(WoWs lacks a good core of meaningful content. It's historical context could have served as one, or a focus on engineering, or just deep, complex mechanics gameplay.

Maybe it's because I'm newish, but the mechanics seem plenty complex enough for it to be fun learning them. And surely the battles provide a core of content around which players can determine their own medium- to long-term objectives.

 

All that said, this... 

8 hours ago, EgyptOverseer said:

To this day I do not understand why it's easier to report a player than it is to simply send a message to them. It almost encourages absolutism in interactions instead of promoting a more pondered approach to social interaction.

... is a very good point.

[Humorpalanta]

I disagee. I always learn new cross words ingame.

 

[BeauNidl3]

4 hours ago, KarmaQU_EU said:

Joke-fly-over-head.jpg

 

Ahh, the old chestnut of "I was only joking" to try to defuse the fact that the thread has attracted basically nothing but scorn for being complete junk.

 

Most forums seem to attract one or two posters of DramaQUeen's type, everything is wrong and that poster is the only enlightened one capable of fixing the situation because they're superior and have brilliant ideas. Of course it's always just some conceited clown hammering a keyboard.

In this case it's someone that claims to not play at all because the game is so terrible, but that is of course not truthful.

 

Sorry for bumping the junk thread.

[Lieut_Gruber]

He is right you know, as Flamu already mentioned, the game only rewards damage done. That creates an antisocial atmosphere.

[KarmaQU_EU]

2 hours ago, Lieut_Gruber said:

He is right you know, as Flamu already mentioned, the game only rewards damage done. That creates an antisocial atmosphere.

A point I completely overlooked because it was so basic and straightforward. Bravo.

5 hours ago, 10ThousandThings said:

At the risk of 1) taking this all excessively seriously, in view of the TL;DR, and 2) seeming like a presumptive newbie, there were a few points that jumped out at me that just didn't seem to reflect my experience of WOWS so far... 

Much of this could be said of unquestionably social, face-to-face e.g. sporting activities 'in real life'. My main sporting hobby, for example, is judo.

- The throws, grips and holds you choose to use in judo don't 'say anything about you as a person', except that you find they work for you. That's the same reason for my having played (relative to my rather limited overall experience in WOWS) a lot of Clemson and Duguay-Trouin, and am starting to play Furutaka quite regularly (and anticipate spending a lot of time in Aoba and Myoko too, as I like that playstyle). I just don't see how that affects the level of 'socialness' one way or the other.

- I've made a bunch of mates at my judo club, and sometimes we go to the pub after training sessions. There are other social events organised throughout the year (it's a university judo club, which helps). Would I have ever met these people without judo? Would I hang out with them otherwise? Probably not, but it doesn't make that social interaction less real, or that my judo club is anti-social. Same can be said for WOWS-focused interactions through clans, forum, chat, Twitch, Discord, whatever.

- If someone throws me for ippon (i.e. flat on my back, they instantly win) I don't think they're being anti-social or an 'unfeeling monster', and the same applies in WOWS. I may be annoyed with myself for having got into a position that allows someone to throw me like that, but my response would mainly be 'nice throw', and then go away and reflect on how they got me into that position, and how I could counter that technique in future or incorporate it into my own repertoire. It's the same approach I prefer to take to being on the receiving end of a devastating strike or a roflstomp in WOWS, and honestly I think both judo and WOWS are better for approaching them in that way.

-Tbh I like that I can decide how much of a 'social' experience it's going to be. Would I like to play divisions more? Well, in an ideal world, I think I would, but given that I don't have loads of time to play (rarely playing more than 4 or 5 games at a stretch), and am not a particularly good player, I don't really feel like that's a particularly good basis for asking people to division up with me! And if that was a regular thing and I felt like I was obliged to be online at a given moment, I think I'd enjoy the game less. Obviously I try to play my best for the team and am polite in chat etc., but part of the beauty of WOWS is that you don't have to take on any social obligation if you don't want to. And you can make it a very social experience if you want and are happy with any obligations that creates, as others have pointed out. As for the 'logistics', I guess they could be frustrating if your goal is to get a T10 asap, but not if your goal is to learn and improve and enjoy that process.

-Maybe it's because I'm newish, but the mechanics seem plenty complex enough for it to be fun learning them. And surely the battles provide a core of content around which players can determine their own medium- to long-term objectives.

Thanks for sharing your Judo experience! 

 

But if we use Judo as an analogy, it would be that to use certain moves you'd have to "grind" resources by performing the action of throwing someone else to the mat x000 times, business fashion, before you can use that move. This goes for every move you'll ever use. And other ppl will be trying to steal the chance to throw your target to the mat before you too, or throw you to the mat. So you have 20 ppl on the mat at once, all grappling at each other adhoc fashion like monkeys, in a frenzy to just throw and throw and throw as much as possible. There is no GG. There is no "I made a mistake I reconcile". There is no "this is my fighting style these are my strengths and weaknesses and work and practice". Only grind grind grind.

 

And after every mat throwdown that lasts at most 20 minutes, everyone just scatters. Some on a less happy note than others because they were thrown to the mat and stomped because they dared go to the centre more eagerly. Others cursed something profane in public space, while yet another kicked their teammate in the shin by mistake. Also, someone found a way to hang by the chandelier and randomly throw kicks at ppl below. Somehow, if someone goes on the chandelier, another will also have to go up to oppose it, mirrored in numbers and strength.

 

And to really put it all into perspective, you joined this monkey-frenzy because you thought it was actually about Judo. About the martial art, about exercise, about spiritual and personal development, about gentlemanly duels, about getting better, and lots of meaningful things. But no, it's all about who can get as many dirty kicks as possible onto unsuspecting targets while on the monkey-mat.

 

And to really put the cherry on the cake, after you go home, you find that there are other clubs which, wow, they really are gentlemen clubs. They have sports stories on the radio. They don't engage in their art monkey-fashion, but in such a polished, structured fashion it makes you want to cry. They have also refined the Judo to fit all peoples and ages and be performable by ppl of any physical prowess. There are regular events, variety, creativity, and are improving in every possible direction which your own monkey-Judo place is failing at.

 

Yet you decide to stay with your monkey Judo place, because your like Judo, despite the fact that this place forces you to cough up cash regularly to enjoy yourself on the mat too. Without a reasonable upper limit ... in fact, they try to extort more cash from you with every design. They do not fully respect your opinions or logic. The other monkeys sometimes annoy you. And amongst all this chaos, you slowly start to forget what a "good" sports or country club looks like. How many other alternatives there are to engage in meaningful hobbies and activities. What a "good" organized event looks like.

 

You forget what humans are capable of. How deep social interactions and interconnections between humans can be. How many humans devoted and sacrificed themselves so you would have the chance to engage in better social connection, in a better world. You forget the height of creations humans are capable of building, both in reality and in logical structures. Or you do not forget, and share it in an eager, social way, with the usual band of monkeys. You are not at your most legible state because you recently got repeatedly kicked in the head by some monkeys, and your morale for this whole monkey-Judo thing is falling by the minute. 

 

You are replied with feces flung at your face, and incomprehension.

[TeaAndTorps]

... And if that were my experience of judo or WOWS I would leave, but it isn't, so I don't ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[44smok]

So many words, so little meaning...