Asashio and Teamplay

[LOZFFVII]

4 hours ago, VC381 said:

And you're not blinded by your need to prove that it is?

If I admit that I am, will you admit that you are similarly blinded?

I am under no delusion that I am one of (if not THE) most vocal critics of WG's decision to include Asashio in the way she is designed currently.

The difference is, while I am blinded to the ship having any redeeming qualities due to it's toxic design, the Asashio 'defenders' are blinded to the fact that the ship IS toxic by design due to their belief it has redeeming qualities. Redeeming qualities that basically everyone has said multiple times Asashio shares with Kagerou and Harekaze, both of which aren't toxic by design.

 

Sorry, but admitting to my 'blindness' does not actually harm my case in the slightest.

[HaachamaShipping]

4 hours ago, VC381 said:

 

And you're not blinded by your need to prove that it is?

I mean, the qualities of the ship, the low skill ceiling and low skill floor are pretty obvious. The fact it is easy as all hell to land torps with it, yet the fact you can't do much if pitted againd DDs or god forbid cruisers is also known and Asashio basically has to make an impact early on to allow the team to follow up and kill the little ships. These are things that you could already get from most reviews on the ship (with a good few already calling it toxic and not good for gameplay back then). Which is basically why this ship is not OP, but why certain people really dislike it still, because while anyone can play this ship, the ones who will gravitate towards this ship most and get the most out of this ship are people who have difficulties with normal IJN DDs (or any DDs) and wouldn't get any great damage done with normal torps.

 

And I don't own an Asashio, I'm pretty sure if I did, I'd have better stats in it than many of my other IJN DDs, because I'm not some unicum player, but I find it preferable if people (including me) actually have to learn the game, not get handed some ship that needs even less skill and reduces any incentive to get better, while it gives other players a greater headache vastly out of proportion to the Asashio player's skill level. It's why the ship is such a bad design and why the great majority of reviews was very skeptical of the ship being a valuable addition to the game.

[VC381]

11 minutes ago, Captain_LOZFFVII said:

If I admit that I am, will you admit that you are similarly blinded?

I am under no delusion that I am one of (if not THE) most vocal critics of WG's decision to include Asashio in the way she is designed currently.

The difference is, while I am blinded to the ship having any redeeming qualities due to it's toxic design, the Asashio 'defenders' are blinded to the fact that the ship IS toxic by design due to their belief it has redeeming qualities. Redeeming qualities that basically everyone has said multiple times Asashio shares with Kagerou and Harekaze, both of which aren't toxic by design.

 

Sorry, but admitting to my 'blindness' does not actually harm my case in the slightest.

 

I bowed out of this argument a long time ago because I realised the opinions are so polarised and entrenched there's no point discussing. I'm perfectly happy for you to hold any opinion you like, as strongly as you like. I can see both the points you're making and the counter-points, I hold a different opinion but I've conceded on some aspects so don't tarnish me with your blindness brush. I believe this whole argument could do with a bit of live and let live and agree to disagree.

 

But your response was pretty predictable. "It's ok to be blind to what others think because I'm right and they're not" is about as narrow minded as you can get. If you're actually proud of that attitude then there is really no point at all even trying to discuss the underlying subject.

[MK1D]

8 minutes ago, VC381 said:

 

I bowed out of this argument a long time ago because I realised the opinions are so polarised and entrenched there's no point discussing. I'm perfectly happy for you to hold any opinion you like, as strongly as you like. I can see both the points you're making and the counter-points, I hold a different opinion but I've conceded on some aspects so don't tarnish me with your blindness brush. I believe this whole argument could do with a bit of live and let live and agree to disagree.

 

But your response was pretty predictable. "It's ok to be blind to what others think because I'm right and they're not" is about as narrow minded as you can get. If you're actually proud of that attitude then there is really no point at all even trying to discuss the underlying subject.

Asashio's haters gonna hate.

[LOZFFVII]

16 minutes ago, VC381 said:

I bowed out of this argument a long time ago

I don't think you did, somehow. If you had, you wouldn't even have looked at the thread and posted a response to my post.

18 minutes ago, VC381 said:

I'm perfectly happy for you to hold any opinion you like, as strongly as you like. I can see both the points you're making and the counter-points, I hold a different opinion but I've conceded on some aspects so don't tarnish me with your blindness brush. I believe this whole argument could do with a bit of live and let live and agree to disagree.

In that case, I apologise for assuming you were entrenched with the others. Unfortunately, your argument was spoken as if you were trying to discredit my argument using nothing but the single sentence, which struck a nerve and caused me to lash out.

23 minutes ago, VC381 said:

"It's ok to be blind to what others think because I'm right and they're not" is about as narrow minded as you can get. If you're actually proud of that attitude then there is really no point at all even trying to discuss the underlying subject.

I accept that certainly, you can play for the team in Asashio. My point was that you can also do so in exactly the same way in Kagerou and Harekaze. The difference is, Asashio was designed and implemented in such a way as to be toxic for the game and toxic for the community. So toxic, in fact, that this thread and a few others popped up either in defence of the ship or in hatred of the ship.

 

Sadly, it's reasonable to consider that if Asashio had been implemented as a nerfed or cloned Kagerou, we certainly wouldn't even still be here arguing about it. Had WG decided not to take the toxic design route, Asashio would've been nothing more than a blip on everyone's radars.

And this is the ultimate problem I have with this ship. I would've spent a lot less effort here arguing on the message board about a ship I hate and refuse to buy (but have been tempted to buy on multiple occasions) and would have already given WG my money, just to have a complete collection of IJN DDs. Even if she was just a nerfed Kagerou.

I'm not proud of being 'blind', I'm just mad at WG for implementing a historical ship in such a toxic way that I refuse to have any part in.